Hearthpwn

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

lol at the shills puking up the same arguments again and again. The game is rigged, everyone knows it, even those claiming it isn't. 

 In the absence of evidence, resort to chumdish retorts and belittling along with telling people what they think, despite them saying they don't.....

Feels a lot like talking to a religious person about proof of God. This is a really common tactic they employ because they don't actually have a son d argument or any actual evidence.

Using your logic I can simply say 'it isn't rigged, you know it isn't but you say this to make yourself feel better, you know it, I know it' but that's just not how it works.

The game does not feel rigged to me, at all. When I click through my records on the hs replay deck tracker there is no pattern or significant strange strings of being matched against a counter deck 7 times in a row. What I have is a pretty varied list of classes I come up against, some win streaks, some losing streaks and some patchy 50/50 streaks.

I am open to changing my mind, if evidence is presented that is repeatable and demonstrable then I'd consider changing my point of view completely.

I don't think the same applies to people like you though. Again, very much like discussing religion, you're making arguments based on feelings and what you want to be true. I very much doubt there is anything anyone could say or show you for you to change your mind. 

There isn't a quick way to be honest, pretty much all of the advice already given is your best method but also be mindful of hall of fame and nerds. HoF in particular has allowed me to profit quite significantly. I will pre order the small bundle of am expansion, I think I've done this 5 times and if there's a good pack bundle deal on I'll buy that. Other than that I use gold to buy new expansion packs for a couple of weeks and then save it all until the next expansion so I can add to my pre order packs and this along with nerf/HoF (and I dust wild cards I don't have any interest in) has meant I built up around 35k dust before this expansion and I aim gin keep it above the 20k mark so I know I'll always be able to build at least a deck or 2 no matter what.

Quote from Macinstosh >>

Anyone complaining about toxicity would have never survived MW2 Xbox lobbies. Those were better days. 

On another note, having a chat actually raises the skill floor required to effectively play the game (also raising the skill ceiling, naturally). Can't keep a cool head and lose a game? The other player's comments towards you threw you off. Git gud, scrub.

 'Never survived the MW2 lobbies' 

There's nothing noteworthy about tolerating a lot of sweaty virgins trying to out swear each other because their parents have gone out. 

One of the appealing things about hearthstone is the lack of interaction with insufferable man children, who use the internet as a way of venting their frustration and abusing people. 

I generally enjoy playing as rogue vs priest, there are a lot of things to try and account for but also randomness that can result in some really crazy games.

I have made a random image deck which focuses on a lot of secrets and discover mechanics with puzzle box, the quest, the prime and Reno thrown in and I really enjoy playing anything that isn't hyper aggressive with it. It gets absolutely destroyed by anything that wants to kill you by turn 5 but has good matchups against everything else purely because the randomness can carry you. Having minions that allow you to discover a spell when you play a secret or give you randomness mage minions when you pay a spell makes every game feel very different.

Quote from Highwayman37 >>

"Q: Why are there two matchmaking pools?

A: Since each player starts at the bottom of the ladder at start, we want fair matches for everyone (aka. win-rate close to 50%)."

First, nice work on trying to prove your point but the game developers are on record saying they want a win-rate close to 50% for everyone.  They didn't elaborate on what that means (perhaps they will at some point in the future) but it's quite an odd statement.  

 

 You're completely misunderstanding that answer. Aiming to keep people at a 50 ish percent win rate by ensuring players are matched with people of a similar skill level is not the same as rigging it to make sure people lose in order to achieve 50%.

An exceptional player starting at rank 40 would have a much, much higher than 50% win rate. Let's be low ball and say it's over 80%, they move quickly up the ladder  never sitting and staying within any given pool of players, allowing that pool of players to get a somewhat close to 50% win rate, playing others of their skill level whilst the good player moveson and leaves them to it. 

Our pro player breezes through the ranks u tilt they eventually hit a point that they are meeting similarly skilled players. At that point they will end up close to 50% than they were at any point during their climb.

If you're absolutely stuck at gold 5, it's because that's your level pretty much. Same for diamond 1-5 etc. There will be people at the upper end of the ability levels in those groupings and with enough playing and/a touch of luck then they'll push into the next bracket. That next bracket will likely be a bit difficult and it's likely they will struggle to consistency get into it. There will be pmayers who achieved diamond 1 each month and always push for legend but only actually achieve it sporadically or when they out significantly more time than usual in.

It works in a similar way in sport. If you or Manchester United into the semi professional leagues, they would instantly win promotion and keep doing so until they reach the top ends of the premier league.  If Manchester United play Chelsea 500 times, the win rate will likely not be 80/20 in anyones favour but far closer to 50% than when they were playing in the lower leagues. There are teams who bounce between the top 2 leagues constantly, or the 3rd and 4the tier. Others will never make it to the premier league. Obviously there are differences but the point is the same. 

No one wants to watch or participate in a competition where they lose 99% of the time. That's why league systems and tiers exist across most competitive activities.

This is what the matchmaking system does. It keeps people grouped with similarly skilled players so that each division can at least be competitive for the people within those groups.

The ladder is essentially a hierarchy of competence and isn't too far removed from the same way loads of other things go. Good salesmen will generally work for bigger firms, having demonstrated and maintained a high level of competence. Whereas someone less capable likely works for a worse firm and earns less money. No one will ever say they're a bad salesmen though they too will give a million reasons why they aren't at the top of their field.......

Quote from abupaco >>

Quote from Alp2760 >>

Something no one ever answers when it comes to this sort of thing is how do they know what type of decks are being played?

Are you seriously suggesting that it scans both decks during the match making process, hecks the cards, assigns an archetype and then puts it against a strong ir weak archetype that has also been scanned?

 

im not saying game is rigged, neither its not, but those arguments i read every day in such topics talking about how hard it would be to encode stuff like, as matchups, topdecks, key cards sitting in the bottom, etc, are so hilarius, and its funny they come from the ''reasonable'' side of the debate not the 'conspiracy fans'.

just answer to your self about how hard it is while reading the text in following cards

Genn Greymane

Zephrys the Great

Drakkari Trickster

Curious Glimmerroot

Chameleos

King's Elekk

.....i see that in any point decks, hands and boards state of both sides is scaned and those informations sometimes are being used like in the cards above, and why not some other functions even more fondamental.

 

 Because they are for very different purposes and thus, the intelligence needs to be different.

Genn, for example, that's a simple case of card cost. It doesn't need to read any card text or anticipate the player's reasons for using it. You listed zephrys who struggles with this exact thing. The cards you listed are no where near as sophisticated as the system being discussed. Also, it should be repeatable yeah? It should be consistent and you should be able to demonstrate it? If there was a video which shows someone win 5 in a row vs a specific class and then get matched with a counter class until they've lost and then other people did the same thing then there would be some evidence. Theres no evidence though. It's always pretty random, 'I faced rogue 5 times in a row!', 'I faced rogue 9 times in a row! How and why does the system counter one person with 5 games and another with another number? We're starting to get into what seems like a really advanced, random rigging system here.

The type of reading the OP is complaining about would need a system to scan the entire deck, read the card text, accurately assign an archetype to that deck and then pit it against a player using an archetype that is weak to it.

So the system would have to read all the cards and say 'ah, this is a death rattle rogue, this is strong against X' whereas a different type of rogue deck would then get put against a different class because it is actually weak to whatever dearhrattle rogue is strong against.

Then they would have to amend it constantly due to the meta shifting, expansions would cause problems and I can't see how it wouldn't be such a sink of time and resources all to keep little Barry at diamond 3? 

I'd have maybe had a little more time for this if as I said, I didn't see it in almost every game I play. I've played fifa for years, only competitive online and the players there all say the same thing. The actual fact is they aren't as good as they think they are. Everyone gets a bit lucky or unlucky or lag ruins a knee off game etc but it's all conspiracy and rigging on that forum as well, has been for years.

I've never seen anyone know any game prove it and I've never seen someone come out after leaving as a dev or something like that and say 'its rigged and this is how'.

Also, players are very selective with what they say. I take 'I've faced rogue 8 times in a row' with a pinch of salt. I've worked in regulated complaints for 13 years and proven time and time again that people are wrong, are giving false information or are straight up misunderstood.

People won't come around though, even when you produce calls or documented, signed evidence, people will still insist its fraudulent and they've been worked over by the company. It's the same here, no matter what is said or how many times developers will say something isn't done, the same brigade of people will insist that they're lying and they're being done over.

After all this, what really is the benefit? I always see 'player engagement' as a reason but I don't think people actually understand what companies mean with a lot of things and the internet communities will assign their own meanings which catch on and people use phrases or words in that context. People have been kicking off about this for a long time, it clearly wouldn't be a good business idea and if found to be true, would leave them open to all sorts of problems. All for what? A chunk of gutter rank players being gifted some wins so they stay 'engaged'? When Blizzard or any other company talks about engagement through match making, it absolutely won't be that. It will be about giving people challenging and competitive matches rather than it being random and leaving a new player coming to against pro after pro because that isn't a fun experience for either player.

No one is naturally great at everything. There are skill ceilings and some people simply won't get past that at any given activity. People find it easier to lay blame elsewhere though and find other reasons for not being in the very top bracket of whatever they're doing. This is not something unique to HS, I've seen it in almost every type of competitive environment, sport, games, work.

These are also the sorts of people who will say someone only got a job ahead of them because they know someone or some other crap excuse. 

Quote from Jbiz >>

How about if you don't like a posts subject matter you.................ignore it!  Why is it people act like they are forced to read each post and thread?  

 Some of the best ideas are a result of two people disagreeing but being open to discussing something and changing their mind. When people only talk if they agree you get problems, gets by on this very nicely, for example. The problem with the internet though is everybody has to be right all the time and anonymity takes a lot away from people acting as they would during a discussion in the real world.

Something no one ever answers when it comes to this sort of thing is how do they know what type of decks are being played?

Are you seriously suggesting that it scans both decks during the match making process, hecks the cards, assigns an archetype and then puts it against a strong ir weak archetype that has also been scanned?

No class simply counters another all the time. If you get put against some janky rogue deck then it's no longer a counter. If you have warrior for example, if a counter to enrage warrior is say, control priest then it needs to know its putting aggro vs control for example. If you're playing a control style warrior then the counter is no longer effective so it can't pair those two together because control warrior may absolutely dominate control priest (just examples not suggestions on actual counters in a current meta).

If it simply assigns classes then do they maintain this constantly? Then blindly put rogue vs priest, hunter vs mate etc etc depending on the meta? A counter now may not be a counter by the time an expansion launches and changes the meta.

Then I see this said in other games and I've never seen any evidence for it. The evidence points more towards players having difficulty accepting bad luck or lack of skill and instead they blame the developers rigging the game and ait firmly in denial.

Fifa players do the exact same thing. Go on their forums and you'll see complaints about people losing only because each are rigging the match making.

It's all bullshit in my opinion. Players can't accept losing and blame anything but themselves, this is really common behaviour and so either a number of separate developers are doing this and its never been proven or players are just salty about losing and I know which I would put my money on.

Come with some actual evidence, some coding algorithm or confirmation from someone who works on the game, anything, then we can discuss it. It's all just bad losers and confirmation bias though. Youd be talking about a really crazy match making system that can put the right type of rogue against the right type of priest and one would have to be on a good streak and the other on a bad streak. If both are on good streak then why would they boost the streak of one and not the other? That doesn't fit the conspiracy narrative at all. And what you're saying is the system has managed to do this for 6 games in a row?

Come onnnnn......if I could be bothered then there are several other points which debunk this but I'm assuming anyone who believes this won't read this post or respond to it at least so there's no point. It's very difficult to reason with someone who is being irrational about something and in my experience that's exactly what computer gamer players are about things like this, irrational.

I'd like an answer on how it assigns archetypes though and makes sure that rather than blindly put rogue v priest, it puts x type of rogue vs x type of priest, to ensure it actually rings the match in one players favour.

I've used that interaction to trigger exactly that. They do X when they come out from being dormant, so sending them dormant causes them to come out of it again.

Quote from PPoison >>

Fuck you Bli$$ard! FUCK YOU. You disgusting piece of fucking filth company you have become. You have had three rounds of nerfs in a month but yet every single one has made the game worse? How is that fucking possible???? I am SICK and fucking tired of losing to bullshit rng after bullshit rng. I am sick and fucking tired of every fucking time I have lethal my opp is able to wiggle their way out of it because of rng!!!! I’m fucking sick of it! Oh lackey evolve!!!! Untargetable taunt with reborn! Oh shucks I was at one and you had lethal but I guess I just outplayed you tee hee! Oh you had lethal? Oh sorry I had renewed into renew into renew guess you can’t win now tee hee! Oh you had lethal that’s ok I’ll top deck genie actually I have lethal now tee hee! Wtf does it take to realize this is not fucking fun! I’m sick of every game being this way! And im sick and fucking tired of this company being purposely incompetent! You can be legit ********, have a 60 iq, and be in a coma and still make legend in this game. It cheapens legend so fucking much now. What’s the fucking endgame now? Why should I play bli$$ard? When I hit over 50 percent I instantly get shot back down. Please tell me why I should continue to be a f2p or any of the brain dead consumers who spend money why we shouldn’t quit it mass. Business 101 you can shit the bed over and over and over and as long as you are a monopoly company like Bli$$ard and the masses continue to be fools you can put out all the absolutely monstrosity products you want and it will always fucking blow over no matter what. I really don’t know who I hate more. This shit money grubbing incompetent company or the brain dead consumer who eat this shit up and think it’s ok the game is like this now.

 Oh wow. Step away from the game....you take this way too seriously 

Quote from Ravza >>

Every time I play DH it surprises me on how broken it is (the nerfs were kind of meaningless). I mean down to the fact that warglaives of azzinoth lets you attack again even after the weapon has been destroyed. It should be that you can attack with the weapon again, not with your hero. You get five attacks instead of four. I am just constantly surprised how much better each of their cards are than everyone elses lol.

 What a childish way to derail a thread. You people are obsessed. I bet when someone asks you if you'd like to go large on your order you still manage to end up in a rant about Demon Hunter win rates being too large. Why not either actually contribute to the thread or just don't bother posting anything? Love on to the many salt threads.

Regarding the op, I ran in to some janky spell mage at diamond 2 ish and quickly discovered that I had no idea what to play around. It helped that they seemed to draw really well and apprentice and chenvalla early on absolutely ruined me. I'd mulliganed not expecting any early game from the mage and it backfired big time.

Too much exaggeration and hyperbole in this thread to even try to have a reasonable discussion.

They don't have card draw on every card. They don't have infinite resources. They don't always find a way to win. 

The opposite to this would be someone saying that DH has zero card draw, can't ever win and can't generate any resources at all. If someone said that, you would call them an idiot, rightly so. So then don't do the exact opposite and nullify any opportunity to discuss it.

DH has definitely been knocked down a peg and is in danger of slipping a further tier if the nerfs end up too strong. We will see how these nerfs go, but priestess is much, much easier to deal with now.

Quote from Nickfuryusn >>

Call me what you will but runeterra is way better than this nonsense right now. 

 That's fine, go and play it. I see people sitting on this board and all they talk about is games better than this one. Yet they still frequent the forums and complain about the game they continue to play, despite not liking it or preferring another card game.

I could understand if this was the only card game available and you felt compelled to continue playing because of a lack of alternatives but you all consistently say that a very similar style game is better, so why are you here?

When I think a game is unfun or unfair or whatever, if I just don't get much enjoyment from it then I stop playing it, let alone carry on playing and then go to a site dedicated to that specific game to complain about it. You're clearly desperate for validation and if you complain enough, you'll find people who agree with you and that clearly gives you some sort of gratification.

Its weird. You're like the people who sit in FIFA forums and constantly complain that the game is awful and that PES is better and yet month after month you continue coming back, making the same threads, on the same game dedicated sites.

I could understand if this was a general card game site, like out if cards. It isn't an official Blizzard site, you know this ain't feedback which may affect change.

If you like Rune more, play Rune, there's no problem there at all but just do it. Just had a quick look on a forum for Rune, out of interest, and on the very first page there are complaints that the boards are dead, that X needs nerfing and that the community is toxic. Why not go and join them? 

Why so the store being closed bothering you so much? Why is that the thing that's annoying you about a game you don't enjoy? Surely you have no need for the store anyway if you're playing a better game instead? You have enough for 14 packs, how does not being able to buy 14 packs in a game you don't like and prefer a very similar style game make you feel aggrieved? 

The gold issue is clearly a bug if everything is as you say, you could just submit a ticket and I'm sure it would be sorted. That would probably have taken a similar amount of time as coming here, logging in and creating a thread complaining about it.

I've never had answers to any of the questions above from any people doing what you're doing. Am I missing something? If I'm seeing it completely wrong then I'm open to someone changing my mind.

I've found that handlock and priest generally do alright to be honest. Mulligan for removal and if they don't get the nuts in their draw then it can be a really frustrating game for the DH. I see a lot of ooze these days and that's probably a good idea to include as well because it can really set them back, especially if they aren't playing around weapon removal.

Warrior does really well against it. If you're constantly coming up against DH then maybe teching in more AoE and freezes as mage and ditch the highlander package but you'd really need to playing against DH most games because it would probably struggle against a lot of other decks.

I have a positive win rate against DH and find it's mainly a real struggle when they draw incredibly well, but then so are a few other classes as well.

DH isn't this unbeatable machine, it's a good, aggressive class and is getting yet another nerf. This nerf will either hit it quite hard and threads will be spammed complaining against the next 2/3 strongest decks or it won't work and threads will be spammed complaining about DH and then the next 2/3 strongest decks as well.

I'm sure it's a bit irritating but it seems to have wound you up way too much. Everyone has to be so outraged these days, everything is an extreme.

You really need some perspective or life experience if this has you so angry. Or you are exaggerating for dramatic effect, which is sad in itself.