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    posted a message on Legends of Runeterra - discussion, analysis and first impressions
    Quote from FortyDust >>

    I just read up on the way cards are acquired in Runeterra, and I can say with some confidence that the game is utterly doomed.

    By limiting the number of cards you can create with a weekly cap, they are essentially saying the people who have been playing the longest and logging in every day are automatically going to have the biggest collections.

    That may seem great at first -- keeps things from being all "pay to win" as the kids like to say these days.

    However, think down the road a bit. This model is going to be a huge turn-off for new players. No one is going to want to pick up a new game if there is literally no way to catch up with veterans. People complain about it enough in Hearthstone, saying it's a crime that you have to pay money to be able to compete. Well, in Runeterra, you literally cannot compete at all until you've put in your time!

    Maybe I'm mistaken about how all of this works, or maybe I missed a piece of the puzzle. But as I understand the system now, it's terrible and the game will never have whales, meaning it will never make any money.

    If publishers would stop all the pretense of "free to play" and just admit that games actually cost money -- that they need to have a cost in order to survive -- we could move to a model where people just pay one set price and get all the cards. We need to set aside this collectible model as a relic of gaming history. It kind of made sense for physical cards, but it will never make sense for digital ones.

    Firstly sorry for necroing this thread but i need to point something out.

    I have come back to hearthpwn for this comment. Not here for a long time.

    I did liked your comments and point of view back in the days that i'm very active in this forum so that's the reason I care what you said.

    Your arguments are fair enough but you are skipping something. The support power of riot. I can give an example of my country. There are so much people who wants to play hearthstone, especially people under 22. English training isn't well enough here. You need to do something extra to learn it and people (especially younger ones) don't care so much. The community here tried to make blizzard give language support. They have even started a petition for it. Blizzard still refuses to give us Turkish hearthstone experience.The only thing in Turkish about Blizzard games and Especially for Hearthstone (for mobile concerns) are advertisements and even advertisements have become Turkish yet, before 3-4 months ago. I really don't care so much because I am playing all of my games in English because of my old habits. Even the game is in Turkish, I can't understand the game terms well enough. That's so sad but I have grown like this. Anyways; People here don't decide to play Hearthstone because they can't understand the game and they don't want to play it because they think it is hard to learn by playing (not the game, the terms, all the cards etc. even it is not that hard). The point here is Riot already translated League of Legends to Turkish years ago and now they will bring Legends of Runeterra in Turkish with the closed beta with sounds, not just texts. There are so much people here who waits for the game. It is thousands of peoples not just a little group. LoL is the only game with 50k+ Turkish viewers in Twitch and they are only local viewers, not from any other countries like english-speaking streamers. I'm sure they will do this support for other countries too that Blizzard or Wizards of the coast have never gave before like Turkey. This will bring some absolute difference to the market. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a racist or a national nazi here, just wanted to say how LoR might affect the market.

    And There are so much riot fans that they can bring to the game. It is even not the same community with card game players. Riot will bring their own playerbase to the game with TFT and LoL together. We all know how they will rise in years with only selling cosmetics. I didn't even buy once but I know how people, even people under 18 spending real money to cosmetics. They are buying because they are happy with the game. Support team is well enough. They are buying stuff because they like, not for reaching people. When you buy for reaching people, you know you are doing a bad thing because it makes you obsessed with the game and you become addicted to the game. But with riot's way, You are buying stuff because you like it and it worked for League of Legends before. There is no reason it doesn't fit in LoR either. I don't agree that LoR will be HS killer. Of course there might be some changeovers, but Riot will bring their own players to the Card Game market for sure because of the stuff I have mentioned in this and above paragraph.

    For your concerns about how new players collect cards, it is all of the games' concern in my opinion. I mean, I personally think that People who plays a game for 5 years and started yet shouldn't be equal. There must be some differences because of his loyalty and spent time. Although this thought of mine, I found the Legends of Runeterra safe enough to start late. There are experience system with Regional rewards. You can choose your way to collect. When you go for a region (Think it like classes in hearthstone) You are collecting that region's cards. So you are collecting what you want mostly unlike hearthstone or MTG:A. I don't think a new player will experience bad times to collect or complete the set because region system's first rewards are generous enough and easy to get. you can claim regions first rewards in 4-5 days with casual playing.

    You might be right about daily logins and weekly cap but there is a case here. Weekly Vaults. It is one of the most important part of the economy of the LoR. there are 1-13 tiers for that and rewards are so generous. When you complete all of the daily quests in a week (daily quests give experience points and you need experience points to level up your tier for Weekly Vaults) you end up tier 10 Weekly Vaults. It is 3 Platinum Chests.

    I don't think we will need to buy those weekly wildcards. There are a thread in reddit about economy of Runeterra. I may quote something I wrote in another website here if you are really interested;

    <header class="source">Quote From Almaniarra</header>

    If you are interested in, u/rhemyst from reddit also made a simulation about set completion using Python who is asked that question and also promised to do maths about it :) ,

    Here is the link; https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/dtnizg/a_simulation_of_set_completion_for_various_levels/

    and here is the post and the results; All are quote from the post itself and thanks to u/rhemyst from Reddit again.

    I used it compute the average progression values for several "involvement levels" and compute the set completion over 4 month.

    The system makes several assumptions:

    • Collection starts absolutely empty

    • You save you shards for champions, then epics, then rares, etc...

    • You always spend your wildcards, even on commons and rares. It's not optimal in terms of progression, but I believe it's more realistic to assume most people will not want to sit on 50+ wildcards until they can just complete a whole rarity level at once.

    • You always level your vault to a given level every single week.

    • I used the "upgrade" values provided by Riot in the above thread. Those could change.

    I tested various "involvement levels", with various properties:

    • Casual: level 6 vault every week. Vault gets less efficient after level 6, unless you reach level 10

    • Serious: level 10 vault every week. This also means about 1 region every month.

    • Pro: level 13 vault every week

    According to u/herazalila, the above levels represent about 2h, 4h30 and 18h per week.


    • Whale: buys 3 epic and 3 champion wildcards every week (that's about 12€)

    • Dolphin: buys 1 epic and 1 champion wildcards every week

    • Fish: never buys anything

    Here are the set completion, as percentage, over the course of 4 months. The line in bold is the example given by Riot : by leveling the vault to 10 every week, you get to about 75 completion after 4 month, i.e. when a new set is released. This would indicated that my simulation is accurate.

    EDIT: thank you all for you comments. I need to clarify a few things before you look at those numbers.

    • Like I said, I ignored the prologue, tutorial and the possibility to buy a starter set. Those the bellow number should thus be a bit higher. I can redo the simulation when the have the exact data for it, during the next beta. EDIT: assuming I got the right data, with the prologue and starter set you'd reach 75% in 12 weeks as a Serious Fish.

    • On the other hand, my simulation does not account for the fact that when leveling a region, you only gain cards from that region. Which means that you are more likely to get duplicates, and that slows you down a bit. So those numbers below should be a bit lower.

    • But, at the same time, it means that the "completion percentage" is actually higher for the regions you leveled. Values below are only computed on the total set.

    • I used the region rewards order provided by Riot in their blog post. Those rewards are sorted in value. In practice, regions rewards are not sorted (you get some very nice rewards in the early levels). In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't change much. In practice, it means the beginning of your progression can be faster.

    • Overall, you can always add or remove a few points from those numbers depending on how you level regions, how you spend your shards, etc... It's just a broad estimate.

        Week 4 Week 8 Week 12 Week 16
      Casual, Fish 9 19 26 34
      Casual, Dolphin 10 20 28 37
      Casual, Whale 11 23 33 43
      Serious, Fish 24 45 63 77
      Serious, Dolphin 24 47 66 80
      Serious, Whale 26 50 70 85
      Pro, Fish 38 67 87 93
      Pro, Dolphin 39 68 89 96
      Pro, Whale 40 72 92 100


     I sensed that The Riot's plan is making money from only cosmetics like League of Legends because these number shows that noone will feel like they need to buy extra wildcards for what they want to play. You can simply play whatever you like, like everything in the game content are for free. I feel like they would make the game all cards open but they wanted to keep the spirit of collecting cards, (it is the core mechanic of the card games for me tbh, collecting cards, opening packs(chests and capsules are simply booster packs in LoR) etc.)  and keep your progress alive.

    So even for money-making for riot and new player issues, I don't think The game will be doomed. The only condition that LoR might be doomed could only be about mechanical or gameplay experience. I don't think it will be dead game because of in-game or normal economy. Ah and that doesn't mean I think that game might die because of mechanics etc. I'm just saying the possibilities. I found mechanics of LoR enjoyable, balanced and better suited more than MTG:A or Hearthstone. There may be so much similarities (you may call it steal but I don't think like that), but LoR really suited well all of those with some extras. (Spell mana is completely new mechanic (Don't know if it is in a game other than HS, MTG:A, TES:L, Pokemon TCG:O, Artifact or Eternal tho.), level-up is looking like Pokemon's evolve but different than that, Mostly mixed up HS Quest and Pokemon Evolve.)

    Oh hey, And I don't think one really must leave other card games to be able to play this game. If the game can give what it promises, there is no need to leave other games. I am planning to continue Hearthstone(more than casually) and MTG:A(casually) while playing Legends of Runeterra. If i really like it in time, I may support riot for spending money to cosmetics because If i like, I will want game to live more and be happy to spend money because of I like unlike it is a necessity in hearthstone/MTG:A . :) )

    Sorry for that; I can't skip this;

    Quote from SneezingMeerkat >>

    Here's my take.

    Legends of Runeterra looks and feels like it was developed from the start to be a mobile game, there are a few tooltips and descriptions of cards and mechanics that desperately need to be ironed out (which is what a beta is for), it also feels very uninspired, most if not all of it's mechanics are taken from other games.


     They already don't refuse that. They are saying that "we like card games, but we feel all of them are so stressing to collect and make progress so we wanted to make own version of them."
    I'm not saying this for defending riot, Just pointed out that you should know that it doesn't give you so much new stuff if you decided to start the game. I don't agree that LoR isn't uninspired tho. Just Spell Mana is enough to say that the game is inspired. The game is placing market to correct bad-sides of card games. That is their argument and I agree with them because I see that they find solutions most of them. 3 copies of cards are great for mulligan, Spell mana is great for early/mid game planning, being damaged while MTG's block system is one of the great mechanics of the game etc. There are similarities but game is original whatever you say.


    Again, Sorry for necro-ing. I will leave the forum again when/after or if I get response to this post. Thanks everyone who reads this long essay and sorry for textwall. (if you really read ) :P.

    Posted in: Other Games
  • 2

    posted a message on New Hunter Epic Card Revealed - Stormhammer

    Everyone is complaining about that weapon should have belonged to Shaman or Paladin but I can see the connection with the hunter honestly and liked it.

    Dwarven Gryphon Riders uses hammers most of the time and they all are like hunters more than paladins/shamans so I liked the flavor here.

    Look how they themed hunter in this expansion around Gryphons/Riders/Dwarves and Primordial Dragons. I think it fits well and I have been playing hunter for a while in past. Also this Stormhammer is a ranged weapon with lightning power of it.

    The term "Hunter" doesn't mean Ranger tho.

    See Falstad Wildhammer for example. He is a Gryphon Rider and using a weapon like it.


    I liked the flavor of it tbh.

    I can leave  now.

    Posted in: News
  • 2

    posted a message on The HearthPwn Tavern Is Closing Its Doors

    This is the first time I've been sad about a site shutdown. I can't find to say more words for that really. I hope all of the Hearthpwn community will be on outof.cards cuz even I'm pissed off so hard sometimes, I like you guys. :(

    Posted in: News
  • 3

    posted a message on How Zayle, Shadow Cloak Works + All Five Decklists

    no, probably it cant.  It's an uncraftable card like golden Gelbin Mekkatorque. I can't disenchant gelbin, so we can't do that for Zayle too.

    Posted in: News
  • 3

    posted a message on Dr. Boom's Ignoblegarden Has Begun! Free Packs, Cards, Tavern Brawl

    lol me too ! that was weird.

    Posted in: News
  • 1

    posted a message on Remove The Coin

    Is this real !?

    My eyes are bleeding.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [RoS] Control Priest (replays up!)

    Hello Fellow Hearthpwners !!!

    I am here again with another homebrew deck.

    This time it is priest's turn. I want to made a deck to stand against mostly token druids.

    Edit: That's what I was talking about. I don't know how to record a video but have a replay to show how this deck is working against Token Druid and against some other decks;

    Here you can check this;


    And this one was against some kind of greedy Khadgar Dragon Mage;


    And this one was against a control warrior with boomship + Grommash package;


    And this one was against some kind of Plot Twist Warlock I guess; She Dropped Arch-Villain Rafaam so early so can't really say;


    I could test it through rank 5 to 4 for tonight with 10 games. I could play only 10 games for tonight but will play more tomorrow.

    The deck acts well against Token Druid. Also I was able to win against tempo rogues + mid-range hunters. Have some kind of problems against control warrior tho, it was so long game and one won with 3 health. Those rush mechs are being problem but well I could win against 1 also.

    It was 6-4 for me. I know not so great but I feel like the deck is promising. 2 wins from Tempo Rogues, 1 from midrange hunter, 2 from token druids, 1 from control warrior; and 1 lose from control warrior, 1 from Control Shaman, 1 from some kind of weird warrior deck and last is from tempo rogue.

    Also you could tinker something. I don't have all cards to try. For example Convincing Infiltrator. I didn't feel like needing it btw. We are facing so much board flood so random single removal didn't seem well to me.

    Also I wanted to try Unseen Saboteur in this deck, but well I didn't have them also and didn't want to craft them for now.
    I wanted to try them because of Madame Lazul + Chameleos. We can see what our opponent holding with these two cards and it could be best way to waste a value card from opponent's hand.
    I don't know what card to replace for Unseen Saboteur but if you have in your collection and if you want to try it in this deck, please send your feedbacks here. I want to know how those 3 cards are working together. :)

    Anyways; Deck is here with best regards;

    [RoS] Control Priest
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    Minion (23) Ability (7)
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    I hope you check it and like it and try it and enjoy it, like me !!! :)

    Ah, and if you want to suggest something, I'm open to all suggestions; as always.

    !!! Cheers !!!

    Posted in: Priest
  • 8

    posted a message on How do i beat bomb warrior as Mecha'thun?

    "How can I clean my home with mud?"

    Posted in: Standard Format
  • 1

    posted a message on Best card pack opening in the Rise of shadows expansion.

    Nice one. GL on others. I hope you can get same luck with other packs too. :)

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [RoS] Control Priest (replays up!)
    Quote from MmentoMori >>

    Unseen Saboteur is an interesting card. In theory it shuts down decks like token druid who end up using their board buffs inefficiently, but surviving until turn 6 to pull that off is difficult considering the only reason youre not on the back foot now is because their board buffs havent been drawn yet. Even then, you're playing a 5/6 for 6 with no taunt so it doesn't stop the onslaught of minons. The same thing can be said about Baron Geddon and Tunnel Blaster, they are cards that in theory beat token, but in reality are too slow to defend yourself. Additionally, if your main purpose is to increase tempo to deal with early boards, cards like Thoughtsteal and Weaponized Pinata are not effective as they provide little to no tempo at all. Therefore, aside from an amazing Griftah pull, there is no real reason to run Princess TalanjiChameleos while in theory could be a good card, ends up being an awful topdeck (which you'll be doing a lot of because your deck has only two reliable draws) and too inconsistent despite possibly revealing the opponent's entire hand over the course of 6 turns (which in and of itself is too long to get any sort of value). Also, EVIL Conscripter is just a bad card, token style decks hold no synergy within priest whatsoever. Bronze Gatekeeper is also a bad card in this deck, despite synergy with itself and Zilliax, 1 damage is not enough to contest wide tempo boards; technically, Belligerent Gnome contests those boards very well, but we have yet to see his popular use. I also just noticed that you have no single-target removal which could prove detrimental in a control warrior matchup where you cant deal with massive mechs.

    Some recommendations: Here is a control preist deck I built the other day. I opted to use what little dragon synergy there is to create it. You can contest early boards somewhat with tempo minions, and still have some control tools. In the deck description I talk about some ideas I have for a theory craft I am working on, your ideas are greatly appreciated. 

    Dragon Control
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    Sorry for the long post

     Well, You seem like you re saying those in "theory". But I'm saying "no it's working" with my experience.

    Firstly for Bronze Gatekeeper. Most of the community are underestimating this card. Don't think this card as a stand alone. If you could magnetize it with Dead Ringer (%90 of times you are able to do that because token druid doesn't like trades) it became 3/6 on turn 3. Which stops him for so long.

    Same with weaponized Pinata. Bronze Gatekeeper and Zilliax is here to make it a taunt minion. It's not so hard to do that for same reasons. They don't even trade and it works well too. I've tried them. I've tested them. I'm not saying it in "theory".
    And i need to add that they are mechs which Warrior can't easily remove from board. great counters against Dyn-o-matic.

    You could right about Unseen Saboteur tho because of Token Druid's tempo. it might make us lose so much tempo against the deck. I couldn't try it but just said want to try it. It feels good in theory and it feels better against other decks. (For Brawl for example)

    and for Baron Geddon + Tunnel Blaster, They brought some games against token druid for me single-handedly. Baron Geddon is a great card against token druid. It's not in theory aswell. I've tried it and worked super efficient. Token Druid have no tech cards. Not even a single one. They always need to kill Tunnel Blaster and Baron Geddon by hitting with minions.

    I couldn't try a Dragon Priest in this expansion tho. It could work aswell.

    I couldn't put single target removal to my deck because it wasn't needed for meta's shape  for now. I could add some in future if there will be some big threats but I can say that Mass Hysteria works great against giant-sized boards. From Mountain Giants to Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk ones.

    And for Griftah. I love the card. You can say anything about it. I've put that because i like not for countering anything but it also works well i presume. You give some shitty cards to the opponent and breaking his tempo. Also gives you 1 more turn against Mecha'thun decks. You can also gain a copy of the card that you gave the opponent with Madame Lazul. Sometimes you re able to mill your opponent while they are holding 9 cards. It adds 1 more card to Princess Talanji's pool. I just love the card. You can replace it with whatever you want i guess.

    And EVIL Conscripter, you might right about this card because if you topdeck it, it is mostly a dead card. You need to hold it in your starting hand. Lackeys help with so much ways, I need to say that. Discovering a spell is the best one for priest. Dealing 2 damages also helps a bit for removing treants but as i say above it is becoming useless if they are burried deep in your deck and makes Dead Ringer's draw worse. Best replacement for them are Power Word: Shields if you are up to. :)

    Thanks for your comment btw. I found this kind of comments always constructive. I will try a Dragon Priest deck also but I don't think it is a great time to play dragon priest. Maybe next expansion could be the time for that but not now. :)

    Posted in: Priest
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