I just read up on the way cards are acquired in Runeterra, and I can say with some confidence that the game is utterly doomed.
By limiting the number of cards you can create with a weekly cap, they are essentially saying the people who have been playing the longest and logging in every day are automatically going to have the biggest collections.
That may seem great at first -- keeps things from being all "pay to win" as the kids like to say these days.
However, think down the road a bit. This model is going to be a huge turn-off for new players. No one is going to want to pick up a new game if there is literally no way to catch up with veterans. People complain about it enough in Hearthstone, saying it's a crime that you have to pay money to be able to compete. Well, in Runeterra, you literally cannot compete at all until you've put in your time!
Maybe I'm mistaken about how all of this works, or maybe I missed a piece of the puzzle. But as I understand the system now, it's terrible and the game will never have whales, meaning it will never make any money.
If publishers would stop all the pretense of "free to play" and just admit that games actually cost money -- that they need to have a cost in order to survive -- we could move to a model where people just pay one set price and get all the cards. We need to set aside this collectible model as a relic of gaming history. It kind of made sense for physical cards, but it will never make sense for digital ones.
Firstly sorry for necroing this thread but i need to point something out.
I have come back to hearthpwn for this comment. Not here for a long time.
I did liked your comments and point of view back in the days that i'm very active in this forum so that's the reason I care what you said.
Your arguments are fair enough but you are skipping something. The support power of riot. I can give an example of my country. There are so much people who wants to play hearthstone, especially people under 22. English training isn't well enough here. You need to do something extra to learn it and people (especially younger ones) don't care so much. The community here tried to make blizzard give language support. They have even started a petition for it. Blizzard still refuses to give us Turkish hearthstone experience.The only thing in Turkish about Blizzard games and Especially for Hearthstone (for mobile concerns) are advertisements and even advertisements have become Turkish yet, before 3-4 months ago. I really don't care so much because I am playing all of my games in English because of my old habits. Even the game is in Turkish, I can't understand the game terms well enough. That's so sad but I have grown like this. Anyways; People here don't decide to play Hearthstone because they can't understand the game and they don't want to play it because they think it is hard to learn by playing (not the game, the terms, all the cards etc. even it is not that hard). The point here is Riot already translated League of Legends to Turkish years ago and now they will bring Legends of Runeterra in Turkish with the closed beta with sounds, not just texts. There are so much people here who waits for the game. It is thousands of peoples not just a little group. LoL is the only game with 50k+ Turkish viewers in Twitch and they are only local viewers, not from any other countries like english-speaking streamers. I'm sure they will do this support for other countries too that Blizzard or Wizards of the coast have never gave before like Turkey. This will bring some absolute difference to the market. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a racist or a national nazi here, just wanted to say how LoR might affect the market.
And There are so much riot fans that they can bring to the game. It is even not the same community with card game players. Riot will bring their own playerbase to the game with TFT and LoL together. We all know how they will rise in years with only selling cosmetics. I didn't even buy once but I know how people, even people under 18 spending real money to cosmetics. They are buying because they are happy with the game. Support team is well enough. They are buying stuff because they like, not for reaching people. When you buy for reaching people, you know you are doing a bad thing because it makes you obsessed with the game and you become addicted to the game. But with riot's way, You are buying stuff because you like it and it worked for League of Legends before. There is no reason it doesn't fit in LoR either. I don't agree that LoR will be HS killer. Of course there might be some changeovers, but Riot will bring their own players to the Card Game market for sure because of the stuff I have mentioned in this and above paragraph.
For your concerns about how new players collect cards, it is all of the games' concern in my opinion. I mean, I personally think that People who plays a game for 5 years and started yet shouldn't be equal. There must be some differences because of his loyalty and spent time. Although this thought of mine, I found the Legends of Runeterra safe enough to start late. There are experience system with Regional rewards. You can choose your way to collect. When you go for a region (Think it like classes in hearthstone) You are collecting that region's cards. So you are collecting what you want mostly unlike hearthstone or MTG:A. I don't think a new player will experience bad times to collect or complete the set because region system's first rewards are generous enough and easy to get. you can claim regions first rewards in 4-5 days with casual playing.
You might be right about daily logins and weekly cap but there is a case here. Weekly Vaults. It is one of the most important part of the economy of the LoR. there are 1-13 tiers for that and rewards are so generous. When you complete all of the daily quests in a week (daily quests give experience points and you need experience points to level up your tier for Weekly Vaults) you end up tier 10 Weekly Vaults. It is 3 Platinum Chests.
I don't think we will need to buy those weekly wildcards. There are a thread in reddit about economy of Runeterra. I may quote something I wrote in another website here if you are really interested;
<header class="source">Quote From Almaniarra</header>
If you are interested in, u/rhemyst from reddit also made a simulation about set completion using Python who is asked that question and also promised to do maths about it :) ,
Here is the link; https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/dtnizg/a_simulation_of_set_completion_for_various_levels/
and here is the post and the results; All are quote from the post itself and thanks to u/rhemyst from Reddit again.
I used it compute the average progression values for several "involvement levels" and compute the set completion over 4 month.
The system makes several assumptions:
Collection starts absolutely empty
You save you shards for champions, then epics, then rares, etc...
You always spend your wildcards, even on commons and rares. It's not optimal in terms of progression, but I believe it's more realistic to assume most people will not want to sit on 50+ wildcards until they can just complete a whole rarity level at once.
You always level your vault to a given level every single week.
I used the "upgrade" values provided by Riot in the above thread. Those could change.
I tested various "involvement levels", with various properties:
Casual: level 6 vault every week. Vault gets less efficient after level 6, unless you reach level 10
Serious: level 10 vault every week. This also means about 1 region every month.
Pro: level 13 vault every week
According to u/herazalila, the above levels represent about 2h, 4h30 and 18h per week.
Whale: buys 3 epic and 3 champion wildcards every week (that's about 12€)
Dolphin: buys 1 epic and 1 champion wildcards every week
Fish: never buys anything
Here are the set completion, as percentage, over the course of 4 months. The line in bold is the example given by Riot : by leveling the vault to 10 every week, you get to about 75 completion after 4 month, i.e. when a new set is released. This would indicated that my simulation is accurate.
EDIT: thank you all for you comments. I need to clarify a few things before you look at those numbers.
Like I said, I ignored the prologue, tutorial and the possibility to buy a starter set. Those the bellow number should thus be a bit higher. I can redo the simulation when the have the exact data for it, during the next beta. EDIT: assuming I got the right data, with the prologue and starter set you'd reach 75% in 12 weeks as a Serious Fish.
On the other hand, my simulation does not account for the fact that when leveling a region, you only gain cards from that region. Which means that you are more likely to get duplicates, and that slows you down a bit. So those numbers below should be a bit lower.
But, at the same time, it means that the "completion percentage" is actually higher for the regions you leveled. Values below are only computed on the total set.
I used the region rewards order provided by Riot in their blog post. Those rewards are sorted in value. In practice, regions rewards are not sorted (you get some very nice rewards in the early levels). In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't change much. In practice, it means the beginning of your progression can be faster.
Overall, you can always add or remove a few points from those numbers depending on how you level regions, how you spend your shards, etc... It's just a broad estimate.
Week 4 Week 8 Week 12 Week 16 Casual, Fish 9 19 26 34 Casual, Dolphin 10 20 28 37 Casual, Whale 11 23 33 43 Serious, Fish 24 45 63 77 Serious, Dolphin 24 47 66 80 Serious, Whale 26 50 70 85 Pro, Fish 38 67 87 93 Pro, Dolphin 39 68 89 96 Pro, Whale 40 72 92 100
I sensed that The Riot's plan is making money from only cosmetics like League of Legends because these number shows that noone will feel like they need to buy extra wildcards for what they want to play. You can simply play whatever you like, like everything in the game content are for free. I feel like they would make the game all cards open but they wanted to keep the spirit of collecting cards, (it is the core mechanic of the card games for me tbh, collecting cards, opening packs(chests and capsules are simply booster packs in LoR) etc.) and keep your progress alive.
So even for money-making for riot and new player issues, I don't think The game will be doomed. The only condition that LoR might be doomed could only be about mechanical or gameplay experience. I don't think it will be dead game because of in-game or normal economy. Ah and that doesn't mean I think that game might die because of mechanics etc. I'm just saying the possibilities. I found mechanics of LoR enjoyable, balanced and better suited more than MTG:A or Hearthstone. There may be so much similarities (you may call it steal but I don't think like that), but LoR really suited well all of those with some extras. (Spell mana is completely new mechanic (Don't know if it is in a game other than HS, MTG:A, TES:L, Pokemon TCG:O, Artifact or Eternal tho.), level-up is looking like Pokemon's evolve but different than that, Mostly mixed up HS Quest and Pokemon Evolve.)
Oh hey, And I don't think one really must leave other card games to be able to play this game. If the game can give what it promises, there is no need to leave other games. I am planning to continue Hearthstone(more than casually) and MTG:A(casually) while playing Legends of Runeterra. If i really like it in time, I may support riot for spending money to cosmetics because If i like, I will want game to live more and be happy to spend money because of I like unlike it is a necessity in hearthstone/MTG:A . :) )
Sorry for that; I can't skip this;
Here's my take.
Legends of Runeterra looks and feels like it was developed from the start to be a mobile game, there are a few tooltips and descriptions of cards and mechanics that desperately need to be ironed out (which is what a beta is for), it also feels very uninspired, most if not all of it's mechanics are taken from other games.
They already don't refuse that. They are saying that "we like card games, but we feel all of them are so stressing to collect and make progress so we wanted to make own version of them."
I'm not saying this for defending riot, Just pointed out that you should know that it doesn't give you so much new stuff if you decided to start the game. I don't agree that LoR isn't uninspired tho. Just Spell Mana is enough to say that the game is inspired. The game is placing market to correct bad-sides of card games. That is their argument and I agree with them because I see that they find solutions most of them. 3 copies of cards are great for mulligan, Spell mana is great for early/mid game planning, being damaged while MTG's block system is one of the great mechanics of the game etc. There are similarities but game is original whatever you say.
Again, Sorry for necro-ing. I will leave the forum again when/after or if I get response to this post. Thanks everyone who reads this long essay and sorry for textwall. (if you really read ) :P.