Hearthpwn

Golden Snowflipper Penguin

Quote from futhead_Zacard >>

This is insane madness!!! Litrerally 70% of time when warrior uses this combo, he wins it! No matter how many units you have on a board, rat still hits it. Do you have such sh*t?

Quote from exitak >>

1. Not always means not everytime, but doesn't mean anytime ;-)

2. It's just stupid to call everything cancer what is actually played and looks strong. It's balanced, it's fun... if it would be trash then you complain it's unplayable shit card...

Quote from nevr3000 >>

Quote from gabugga >>

Quest rogue isn't one of the best decks in the meta at all. It's not even the best rogue deck. It just makes people mad. You can complain about the deck all you want but it's not even holding a 50% win rate against the meta.

People in this forum are so fucking hilarious

"Shaman with pirates is too strong" Bucaneer and Spirit claws get nerfed

"Jade is too strong" A rogue deck that obliterates jades is added

"This quest rogue deck is too strong"  *facepalms*

Hearthstone in a nutshell mate. People just scream about what they don't like and don't take a moment to look at the numbers. It feels OP, so it must be, right? Jade was never top tier either... (Buccaneer and spirit claws were though, deserved nerf)

Quote from Shevvek >>

Rule number one of TCG balance: every good deck is hated.

Too much midrange? Curvestone. Too much aggro? Brainless face decks. Too much control? Boring fatigue decks. Too much combo? Nerf the unfair decks!

If you get rid of every deck that people hate, you end up with literally nothing. I've been playing Hearthstone since beta and there has literally been no period of time during which people didn't hate the top deck in the game. Ever. Every single top competitive deck has been hated and people have demanded that it be nerfed. Does that say more about the game or the players?

Quote from DjZoNe >>

I don't understand that barking around the Rogue Quest. I think Shield Slam should be nerfed, Jade Idol should be nerfed, Equality should be nerfed, Hex should be nerfed, Firelands Portal should be nerfed. Should I continue?

There are some unfair cards in the game, but The Caverns Below is not one of those. It's not as OP as many of you think. It can be countered and it can be rushed down.

What a hell is wrong with Blizard??! They manage to fuck up with just literally every expansion. 

Naxx- too much overpowered cards, especially mad scientists, eggs, spiders and 1-2 guys. 

GvG- quite a lot of overpowered stuff again, too many rng and OF COURSE Dr.7 and Dr.4( were never nerfed btw)

BRM- flamewalkers,patron(well, that required skill at least)

TGT-almost every fucking card is unplayable, and a secretpal as a sweet bonus

LoE- well, best adventure to me(though some cards were pretty annoying)

WOG-better than all other expansions, but it raised shamans to the top(thankfully to the good cards from TGT and LoE and new ones), RNGstone with Yogg and the era of shamanstone began

ONiK-priest is bad? Purify! Pal is bad? Some useless stuff! Hunt is good? Some crazy secret stuff! Shaman is ridiculously good? Some ridiculously good stuff! 

MSOG-what a hell. Worst expansion. Like to play control? Play Reno or get smashed by infinite golems! What to play something else? Let's check can it survive turn 4 playing against pirates! STB is OP? Let's wait a month! Still op? Let's wait two months more! PW is even stronger after nerf? Just wait a month until new expansion!

JtU-what? How are you going to deal with all these annoying Jades? We've created some new cancer for you! Sounds really cool, doesn't it? How can you beat all those 1 mana 5-5 on turn 5? Well, just use our good old cancer, named pirates! 

The same thing was with pirate warrior. "Too early to judge, there is no meta now. Just wait a couple of weeks, everyone will tech against it. It will disappear." Lol. I agree that meta now is much better than after Gadgetzan came out, but you can't deny that quest roque is broken. 

"Just Play pirate warrior or put two dirty racks in every deck" stuff is ridiculous. And people who try to defend it cause it "draw dependent" - don't know how you play, but I manage to get quest done by turn 4-5 almost every game. But I don't want to play it anymore, it doesn't feel like fun at all. It's just new cancer.

Journey to The Caverns Below

Quote from GromHellscream88 >>

<snip>

How do you beat a deck that outvalues you by turn 5/6, plays no heal, no taunts and very little removal?

 

Spoiler:

An aggressive deck that kills your opponent BEFORE turn 5/6....and oh wonder, it already exists: Pirate warrior counters quest rouge, nobody can figure that out themselves and instead have to open 25 threads how OP and BROKEN the quest is?

Nope, BGH needed nerfing at the time. It prevented any 7+ attk minion which excluded many of the fun legendaries. Unfortunately now the games end so fast playing these is still impossible. But consider that, at the time cards like sap looked really bad compared to BGH, cards like blast crystal potion right now, would be in the same boat. It made class removal pointless.

It's a combination of pirate warrior/other aggro ("Turn 5 lethal") and the slower jade decks (If you haven't ended the game by turn 10 I win) being far too powerful and auto-pilot decks. Nothing you said is wrong really, that's pretty sad. Cards like kazakus are way too strong too. Everything they add to the game is so powerful it's taking away the ability to make decisions. You need strict answers and there is no thinking involved, if you have it the turn you need it you must play it or lose. There is no assessment of the board state, you opponents number of cards, should I play this or should I play that? etc.

The whole game is starting to look like it needs a big overhaul because of blizzards poor decisions on additional content...and that isn't going to happen.

Over the years World of Warcraft got the Elite Tauren Chieftain Band, when will Team 5 start with a music project?

Ben proved that this can be a thing. So? :)

What about Happy Ghoul????

Worst DK hero honestly.

I refuse to get involved in this discussion. 

Give me downvotes.

I'm consolidating all of the mistakes Blizzard made with Un'goro right here just so we can better talk about them instead of making 40 threads. I'll be sorting things into tier 1-3 issues. Not meaning the decks are tier 1 or so on but that the issues are high priority or low priority.

Tier 1 issues

Frothing Berserker - This card Needed to be rotated to hall of fame or changed to some extent. 4 health on a minion that can become a 10 attack minion the next turn is insane. Its basically a turn 3 grommash if the game is in your favor. The counter argument for its nerf is that its not played in all decks except for pirate and midrange lists but its clear pirate is still around and enmasse. The change that could be made to it is making it 4 mana/ making it a 2/3 / or rotating it to hall of fame.

Caverns bellow - This quest is obviously too easy to complete and its clearly the winner of the "blizzard didn't test this" award. Many people obviously see it as unfair, and i've found people completing the quest as early as turn 3. The simplistic change is that you make the quest take 6 minions of the same name to complete. It will  probably push it towards the fire elemental package which is less aggressive and not completing the quest on turn 3 would be actually quite relieving for the meta. The counter arguement is that dirty rat can shut out the deck easily, however if you go first against this deck, even with dirty rat your chance of losing exponentially grows. The other arguement is that aggro keeps it in check. however, if a majority of the meta comes down to this and pirate warrior (a VERY aggressive deck and a Combo deck) we might as well go back to combo druid days.

Tier 2 mistakes

Adapt - the taunt adapt is by far the least valueable adapt in the sense that it hardly supports the minion it is being played on at all. I don't know why they thought just giving taunt was good enough when things like giving taunt and freeze are almost valued at 0 mana. The change they should had for it was +1 hp with the taunt making it a more healthy choice instead of a feelsbadman i need to save my face some hp choice. Its just not proactive at all like the majority of the other choices and actually just makes adapt less enjoyable to work with.

Ice block should have been rotated. Yes, we have secret eater, yes its currently keeping mage viable. But the fact that mage only gets stronger throughout the year because of ice block and extra turns its clear that iceblock as a card enables too much uninteractive game play. I love the card myself, but its just frustrating in its design. the counter argument is that every list right now for mage plays ice block, but the fact of the matter is, its stifling deck building since you just play a greedy list with ice blocks and go ham.

Leeroy should have been rotated - I'm sorry, but this card is still uninteractive burst damage. miracle lists still play him as a free 6 mana 10 dmg with cold blood. other decks find use for him, he's just still around and very frustrating to lose to. You have exactly 7 hp left and can survive literally any top deck, and that top deck ends up being leeroy so your rogue opponent only has to hero power and SMOrc. The counter argument is that people feel the burst is needed but every single class has access to some form of 4-6 dmg burst through spell/minion/weapon. Leeroy is just overkill in the meta right now.

Gadgetzan auctioneer - I like this card, but the truth is, he should have left. Rogue has sprint and prep and now even mimic pod. There is no reason deck building should be focused around this one card still. Even though jade is out of style right now but its obvious that if jade ever gets good again, this card will make once again nearly oppressive. I just think that if they were willing to get rid of ice lance, they should have been willing to get rid of this card. The counter argument i guess is that people don't feel its "the problem" but turning all of your spells into draw a card has never seemed fair and has once again stifled the meta from moving forward.

Tier 3 

Inner fire could have been rotated. Its not that it's broken as all hell, but it's just a really uninteractive card as much things like frothing and ice lance are. Its being played a lot in most priest decks aswell as the fact lyra will generally give it to you when you need it. a minion going from 1/12 to a 12/12 is on par with something like dinosize, just WAYYYYY better. Its clear that this card has had time to shine in the past but It would have been great to have just seen it off to avoid the comboesc decks that have come out of it. The counter argument is probably that no tier 0 decks are playing it right now, but once again, for the fact lyra can give it to you and the decks that do play are getting 10+ attack buffs to their minions, it's just really strong currently and should have been looked at.

Tier mistakes for things that should have been better

tier 1

Galvedon's quest should definitely not be requiring that many buffs. I think 4 is borderline plenty. 6 makes it difficult to play and people still can easily stop galvedon from doing anything. Forcing yourself to play bad cards just to get a quest off is punishing, not to mention all it can realistically be is a combo aggro finisher card. It would be much more playable if it was say 4-5 or 5 cards and all you did was play 2 blessings of kings 2 spike ridge steeds and maybe another buff in your deck (it would require you to draw all 4 or 5 at least to just finish the quest but at least that would be your limit in which you could play it) ALTERNATIVELY, if they add a 5 mana buff thats actually decent (not double attack BS) then theres a chance that galvadeon quest will be good in midrange-control decks later on.

Lakki sacrifice - 3/3 imps should have been the base line for this quest. jaraxuss gives us 6/6 infernos, the quest deserves to give minions that don't die to literally every board clear in the game (primordial drake, blizzard, holy nova, etc). The quest should also only require 4 or 5 discards or make the portal cost much less than 5. It's just too unplayable right now (maybe more cards released in later sets will make it playable) but for now, i see it as the biggest mistake releasing it as such. The argument however is, some legendaries are supposed to be bad, and i say to that bollux, because something should have some sort of niche at the end of the day even if not in a tier 0 deck.

Tier 2 

Marsh queen - Truly, a great concept, bad execution. I think it would have been a really cool idea to have 2/1 draw a card and adapt be their niche, but currently the queen just will never see play since the deck only is strong if you have tundra rhino ready to work. It could have been an amazingly fun deck, but falls victim to the galevdon issue.

This is mostly opinion and things I've seen discussed on the forum. But i'm willing to throw more up if you remind me of other things that just seem a bit ridiculous right now. Overall the meta is really fun, I just found that these were the only major areas of inconsistency for the game. I feel that there is a possibility down the road some of these cards will be looked at closely. However i expect no nerfs to them (except caverns bellow). I think there's a chance that by the next set some things may get rotated namely frothing (probably not iceblock/gad until next year). And obviously the addition of more cards will make certain quests more playable hopefully.

TLDR: not a salt thread, just a condensed discussion thread on What should have been

I bumped the adapt down to tier 2 because I don't realistically think they will look at it but I do feel they could easily fine tune it to make all options equal.

From what I've seen so far:

1. Kalimos: It's the only legendary that's guaranteed to have a high impact on every game it gets to turn 8 against every matchup. Flexibility is still king in Hearthstone and no card has ever been this ridiculous in terms of utility. Sure Sherazin and Lyra are more likely to hard carry a game, but they also need more specific situations to make full use of their power, and rely on multiple other cards. All Kalimos needs is an elemental the turn before and you either get AoE, board swarm, heal, or burn, whatever is best for the situation.

2. Sherazin, Corpse Flower: Recurring threats are just so powerful. Like I said in the original discussion thread, people didn't realize this was basically Piloted Shredder that keeps dropping Shredders in the right situations. It's ranked over Lyra because it's easier to put down, as you don't care about protecting it. It'll always either get a value trade, pressure the opponent, or bait out removal. Against fast decks it'll usually get revived once for a 4 mana 10/6, and against control decks it can revive a stupid amount of times.

3. Lyra the Sunshard: If an overcosted minion statswise was ever going to work, it needed a powerful effect like generating multiple free spells. Thankfully, that happens to be Lyra's effect. This is a card advantage machine and can single handedly win you a control game. Unfortunately it's a slow card and you need the right pieces in your hand to take advantage of it, making it less flexible than the two cards ranked above. With enough patience, this thing is one of the most powerful card advantage machines this side of Megafin.

4. Clutchmother Zavas: I think the card was probably a bit overrated coming into the expansion and is not the meta warping Quest enabler many hyped it up to be. Going all out on the discard mechanic seems to be falling out of favour. However, it's still a solid role player in Zoo that can easily get value. Heck even as a "2 mana 4/4 block 1 discard" you're very happy to have put it in your deck. It and Silverware Golem have made the 4-6 discard effects that are being run now more consistent than ever.

5. Sunkeeper Tarin: It's a bit slow and very situational, but boy is it strong in those situations. Played correctly, it's a threat itself that immediately warps the boardstate in your favour, buffing your previously low impact recruits while neutering your opponent's big threats. Moreover, it's convenient statline means it'll pretty much always take 3 minions with it into the taunt, meaning you'll either catch up on board or force out hard removal.

6. King Mosh: It's incredibly slow, poorly costed, and extremely situational, which is why it hasn't become a staple legendary. However, the sheer power of this card when combined with Whirlwind is impressive and should the meta ever slow to a control-fest (I doubt it will), this card will effectively serve as another Brawl.

7. Swamp King Dred: I'd never actively look to include this in a deck, but having grabbed them off Jeweled Macaw before, it's actually pretty impactful in some situations. Being able to interact and disrupt with the opponent's plays on their turn is extremely powerful. The only issue is that Hunters putting 7 drop legendaries in their deck can lead to more clunky hands.

8/9. Who cares they're both garbage unplayable.

Quote from exitak >>

1. Not always means not everytime, but doesn't mean anytime ;-)

2. It's just stupid to call everything cancer what is actually played and looks strong. It's balanced, it's fun... if it would be trash then you complain it's unplayable shit card...