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    Feb 15, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion
    Quote from nurgling13 >>
    Quote from Aelxer >>
    Quote from nurgling13 >>
    Quote from Aelxer >>

    So hopefully this will be the last balance pass. I've been toying around with several ideas about the direction I should take with Bronze Watcher and finally decided I should have a second opinion. Let me know which one you think is best:

    These 3 are pretty similar, but I've been told that the first one is weak compared with Questing Adventurer, which barely sees play as it is. I'm hoping either of the other two are balanced, but I'm a little worried about having a turn 3 4/4 or turn 4 5/5 (because of the hero power)

    The first one here is basically the original idea minus having it grow once played, but this one can get out of control much more easily, to be honest, since you can wait until it's grown enough before playing it. The second one is more like Mana Wyrm or Tunnel Trogg, though I'm afraid its attack might get out of control more easily than the other two.

     Also, I have a wording doubt:

    I determined the original wording was too ambiguous, but I'm trying to go for the shortest possible text (which would be the second, though not by much) since I don't like, aesthetically, cards with too tight a text. Let me know which of the two is better in your opinion.

     The rest of the set:

    Again, I think Injured Guardian, Echoed Explosion, Wandering Time Traveler, Wormhole Technician, Temporal Echo, Kairoz, Event Horizon are balanced.

    Haunting Memories: Havent' found better art for this one so far.

    Divination: Haven't changed this one despite the slightly off-curve vibe it has. I hope it's fine.

    Preserve the Timeline: Changed the cost and the art. Hopefully it's better now.

     Any and all feedback appreciated.

    Bronze Watcher - I agree that the original is too weak. I think the 1 mana 1/3 is the safest way to go. It's got good stats, but it's Health won't grow, so it can be countered relatively easily, like nerfed Undertaker. 
    Slow Motion - I think this is a really bad idea. This would make 10 Cost spells unplayable, which isn't fair, even if they aren't used very often. Whenever Blizzard has made an offensive cost increase, it's been temporary. The one exception is Freezing Trap, but you know that's out there, so it's your own fault if you run into it. I think you also need to make this temporary. I think you should make it just that all Spells for the next X turns costs Y more. That would make for easy wording, too.
    Haunted Memories - The problem with this is that it's unplayable unless you have had minions die. The existing cards with this mechanic (e.g., Solemn Vigil) are still playable, albeit inefficient, if no minions have died. Your card just wastes mana if you cast it normally, like in a topdeck.
    Injured Guardian - Good inversion of the holding a Dragon mechanic. I'd make this an example card if you weren't planning to already.
    Echoed Explosion - I think you should word this like Fist of Jaraxxus: "When you play or draw this, deal 1 damage to all characters". Hard to tell if it's balanced. It might be on the weak side, but that's OK. 
    Wandering Time Traveler - This is pretty powerful, considering you get to cast Wild Growth every turn. I think it needs lower stats to compensate.
    Wormhole Technician - This card is kinda clunky, and it seems a little forced. I can see where you were going with the flavor here, but you had to cancel out part of the Basic card to make this one work. I think you could preserve the flavor and make it much simpler if you made it "Deathrattle: Add an Unstable Wormhole to your hand". The implication is that the Wormhole Technician got sucked in. 
    Divination - This would be a pretty hard card to use, but it's a good niche design.
    Temporal Echo - This is the kind of card that would limit design space. It's really easy to do cheap combos with a card like this in your set, so I would just be careful. 
    Preserve the Timeline - I don't like how this is open ended. You can just cast this whenever and you have a get-out-of-jail free card. It would require some actual strategy if you made it only for the next turn. 
    Kairoz - I don't like how this gives you perpetual free card draw. It's only 1 net card each time, but still. I would like if better if it was a stronger effect, but it Silenced itself so it was a one-time thing.
    Bronze Watcher: 1 point for the 1 mana 1/3 then. I'm just scared about this one scaling much faster than Mana Wyrm or Tunnel Trogg, tbh.
    Slow Motion: I'll agree that this is bad for 10 mana spells, and rewording it to exempt them would just make it way too wordy than it already is. What about this?

    I tried to make the wording as clear as possible here. The idea is that the effect doesn't run out until the enemy plays a spell, and then it still goes on for the rest of that turn.
    Haunted Memories: While I agree that none of the other cards with the effect are useless when no minions die, it's not like there are no cards that are useless topdecks when certain conditions are not met. Using Pilfered Power or Echo of Medivh on an empty board would be just as useless. I could change the cost to 2 I suppose, so that you can get at least 1 mana from it at worst, but then it ramps rather quickly with only two death, and making it cost more (while keeping the mana gain higher so that it doesn't 'do nothing') would just make it all the more powerful when a bunch of minions do die.
    Injured Guardian: I haven't made up my mind about which cards I'll show besides the obligatory ones, so I'll keep it in mind. Still though, I myself find the effect a remnant of the original design where it had Latent on top of it so the hold a dragon was a safeguard of sorts. Right now, the effect could be easily substituted with 'If you're holding a Dragon gain +3 Health' and have the body be a 3/1. There would be a difference, I admit, in that the current version can be healed up and cannnot be silenced, as opposed to the 'standard' version.
    Echoed Explosion: Thanks for the wording suggestion, Fist of Jaraxxus totally slipped my mind when trying to word the effect. As for the balance, I don't really mind if it's a bit on the weak side.
    Wandering Time Traveler: I don't really expect this one to survive the turn as it is, to be honest. The earliest you can guarantee to trigger its effect is turn 5, and by then it's not as valuable as earlier on (and even more likelier to get killed, if that's even possible). I could make its Attack 1, its Health 3 or it cost 4, I suppose, but I'm not sure if this warrants it.
    Wormhole Technician: It doesn't really need to cancel out a part of the basic card to work, that's just a plus that really only matters on Unstable Wormholes you were already holding when you played it, since the ones it gives you will most likely not get hindered by the side effect. I also don't see how cancelling a negative effect from Unstable Wormhole is a bad thing anyway. I actually first thought of the first effect, and the second one went in because of the challenge.
    Temporal Echo: I agree that this is kind of a dangerous card, but can you share what you have in mind when you say cheap combos? I'd really like to know, since I don't intend to make cards that damage the face , but I might be missing something here that would be too strong and isn't face damage.
    Preserve the Timeline: I already have a card that gives Immunity for a single turn in the Classic Set (Frozen in Time), and Ice Block is just as much a get out of jail free card as this one is. The difference between my class and mage though, is that, as I've said before, my class doesn't have access to the burn mage has, so it cannot abuse the extra turn as much as mage can. Also, to compensate for the fact that unlike Ice Block, this cannot be countered by secret destruction, I made it cost 2 more than Ice Block for pretty much the same effect. I could just remove this one, but I cannot think of a way to rework it without making it too much like Frozen in Time.
    Kairoz: I wanted to have the legendary have a recurrent effect, honestly. At any rate, the card draw is actually rather slow since once you play it you have to draw it again first and then wait 2 turns before getting to play it again. At this point, I'm more worried about fatigue really. The problem this brings to mind, though, is that my hero power counters fatigue (if you don't play the token) indefinitely. I don't mind if there's a card that does it (Jade Idol is a thing after all), but I might have to change my hero power so that it cannot simply counter fatigue forever.
    Also, I somehow managed to misplace a card I had made earlier for TGT, but now I'm all out of room for it, and I really liked it:

    I could take out Preserve the Timeline or Temporal Echo if they prove to be too bad, but as of now I'm undecided and would like a second opinion on this one.

     
    Slow Motion - This wording sounds really convoluted. I get what you're trying to do, but the complicated way you have to word it detracts from the card. I don't think there's a good way to word the effect as it is now. 
    Wormhole Technician - I dislike it because it looks like you had to force the effect to meet the challenge. Like, if this were a real card, you wouldn't have it cancel out part of Unstable Wormhole. You would just have created a new token that does what exactly you want, without the Latent effect. You should create a card that more naturally meets the challenge. 
    Temperal Echo - I don't have anything particular in mind. It was more just a warning that having this could constrain what you can make in the future.
    Preserve the Timeline - I don't think it's a good idea to have more than one Immunity card for your hero. Burn spells aren't the only way to use up that extra turn. Especially since you can combine this with Reno. It takes the risk out of both waiting to play Reno and your equivalent to Ice Block.
    Azure Ally - Cards that do stuff in your hand are very powerful, because your opponent can't counter them. Gaining multiple Spell Damage is extremely powerful. You can turn this into a cheaper Malygos over the course of the game. Or, like, double Malygos. Definitely don't include this one.

     

    Slow Motion: I'm going to make one more attempt to reword it before giving up on this version. The effect is supposed to be the exact same as the last one:

    Wormhole Technician: I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing on this one. You're somehow making it sound like the first part of the effect is necessary to meet the challenge, while most of the time it won't even affect the Unstable Wormholes generated by the card. The first part is more like a bonus that buffs the Unstable Wormholes that you added to your deck naturally, and it wouldn't really make sense as a standalone effect, in my opinion, since then you would have a card that only affected one card of your class (2 copies on the deck, tops).

    Temporal Echo: I'm hoping I won' have a card in the future that will create problems with this one, but I don't intend to make this one an example card, so I can get away with retroactively changing this card if a problem card does come up later.

    Preserve the Timeline: I was actually a little trepidant about the double Immunity, which was why I originally made this card cost 10 so it would've been stupid to play both on the same deck. Then it was pointed out to me this was a severely underpower Ice Block. I'm not gonna claim to be able to predict what kind of decks the class would be best in (except it's oriented towards control), but I didn't really visualize Reno decks working too well. Maybe I'm plain wrong. I'll probably mark this one as a failure and get rid of it.

    Azure Ally: I expect that this one would really be that strong except in strengthening aoe (of which I only have 2 and one of them also hits my own board) and damage removal, but I suppose the ramping is still rather fast. What about this slower version?

     This way it can only get Spell Damage once per turn which will considerably slow it down in comparison to the original.

     

    Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

    Some feedback now, then I'll post my updated cards soon.

    @Aelxer

    One thing I've noticed about your class so far is that it is very complex. 5 of your cards for this set have 4 lines of text. Divination has 3 numbers in parenthesis, Wormhole Technician has lots of working to ignore a specific card's effect. It's rather complicated. You also have a significant number of spells. These aren't necessarily bad things, just something I'd watch. You don't want to turn people away with being overly complex. 

    As for individual cards:
    Bronze Watcher (1) 1/3 sounds great. It's hard to ramp it hard early game unless you have significant cheap card draw. Although if you are worried about too much card draw, (2) 1/3 or (2) 1/4 could work. This is a great card, simple and different.

    Slow Motion - I agree with Nurgling about this one. It's got too much going on. Increasing enemy card cost is a good idea (I've got 2 ideas for it as well) but keeping it temporary will keep it balanced. Maybe it affects 1 spell, or lasts a single turn.

    Haunting Memories - Not sure about the BRM flavor, but its a cool card. For art, I'd suggest this. Google 'Magic the Gathering Absent Minds.' It's a pic I'm using in my WotOG set.

    Echoed Explosion - Agree with Nurgling on the wording. It's more consistent.

    Divination - There has to be a better way to word this. Maybe just drop the Latent part. Otherwise I like it.

    Temporal Echo - Like me, you are being careful about what cards are in the set so you can't go ham and replay damage / healing over and over and over. That's good. Just remember that this is in the set. 

    Preserve the Timeline - I remember some of your previous cards, and I don't really like this in a class that has healing. It also has no counter besidesCounterspell, whereas at least Secrets can be stolen or destroyed.

    Azure Ally - This is scary. For the same reasons as Temporal Echo, but moreso. Start the game with it, cast 10 spells, drop it late game with a single face damaging spell and win. Or clear the board with it and a super cheap aoe. And god forbid Mage or Druid or Rogue get anywhere near this thing.

    Kairoz - This is clever. It's a minion but it can be a spell. It defines the TGT's theme of crazy legendaries. However, does your class really need more card draw? That's for you to decide. 

    Injured Guardian, Wandering Time Traveler, Wormhole Technician - Cool cards. Good ramp. Wormhole Technician is very wordy, but I like the idea. 

    @nurgling13

    Your collection has been very interesting. Like Aelxer, I worried that your cards, with your dual hero power idea, would be too complex. But your themes have been clear and focused. Some cards have a lot of text but are full of flavor.

    Krennan Aranas - My biggest worry about your class is when you want to play a specific card, but have to change your hero power. Your cards are powerful, but if you need to be Worgen and don't have the extra mana, you either have to wait or limit your potential. This card is a perfect solution. I love it. It works for other classes if they get it, but it's a beautiful card if you need to swap specs quickly.

    Winter Hunt - I'm glad that Alpine Wolves' effect has a purpose! The first version looks weak, but compare it to Call in the Finishers. Synergies aside, its two 2/2s for 4 vs four 1/1s for 4. AoE freeze is strong. The second should probably cost 6. I'm voting for the first. Great idea overall.

    Flank vs Pep Talk - Flank is a better Commanding Shout (except times you want to take damage). Pep Talk is slow, as someone else said. Flank also has better flavor, so go with that or buff Pep Talk.

    I don't have much to say about the rest. Honestly, they are all solid cards. Good balance of minions and spells. Standouts for me are Scorched Earth (Scorched Azeroth?), Prepare for Combat, and Grizzled Weaponmaster.

     

    I suppose one of the drawbacks of the cards I like to make is that some are overly wordy, even if the effects are simple. As for the spells vs minions thing, I guess I wasn't paying too much attention to that and maybe I should have, but I don't think the difference is too big too be worrying.
    Bronze Watcher: I suppose the card draw doesn't kick in so early that I should worry about it, so I'll guess I'll stick to the 1/3 for 1.
    Slow Motion: I changed it so it would be a temporary increase, but I wanted it to hit at least one card with the effect, so this is what I came up with (second attempt).

    I posted it above but just in case you missed it.

    Haunting Memories: Thanks for the artwork, I really appreciate it (it's pretty neat).

    Echoed Explosion: Changed the wording:

    Divination: The classic set was rather lacking in Latent cards in comparison with other classes' keywords, so I might have overcompensated here. Not that there's that many Latent effects still. What about this one?

    I removed the Latent and split the difference in cost. This way it's also no longer awkward on the curve.

    Temporal Echo: My only healing spell anti-synergizes with this one since the healing ramps up while it's in the hand so this turning into that would reset its counter, making it much weaker. As for damage, I only have one single and rather weak spell that can go face, and the rest can only target minions. Mostly I expect this would go well with Incoming Meteor since it has its own Latent counter, or other non-damaging spells.

    Preserve the Timeline: I made it more expensive than Ice Block because it cannot be countered (even though there's no uncertainty about it, unlike with Ice Block). Still, I think I'll just scrap this one.

    Azure Ally: I hadn't though about other classes getting their hands on this, that was an oversight. Also, I'll agree that this can ramp up way too fast, so I changed it to significally slow it down (I hope). What about this version?

    Again I posted it above, but just in case.

    Kairoz: I would be worried about 'more card draw' if I thought it could lead to a 'being too OP' situation, but when I think about it, I cannot help but be reminded of warlock (since Life Tap is the closest thing to my hero power). Warlock pretty much runs no card draw and relies solely on its hero power (and maybe Mortal Coil sometimes). When Doom was released, it was completely useless for Warlock (even though it could've been great in other classes), since there is such a thing as 'too much card draw' but only in detriment of the deck that runs it. I think it will mostly be a balancing act on how much card draw you should run without it actually becoming a disadvantage, so I'm fine with the class having more card draw options so long as they don't threaten to make the class OP. Now I might be completely mistaken here and if I am do let me know, but that's my impression.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 15, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion
    Quote from nurgling13 >>
    Quote from Aelxer >>

    So hopefully this will be the last balance pass. I've been toying around with several ideas about the direction I should take with Bronze Watcher and finally decided I should have a second opinion. Let me know which one you think is best:

    These 3 are pretty similar, but I've been told that the first one is weak compared with Questing Adventurer, which barely sees play as it is. I'm hoping either of the other two are balanced, but I'm a little worried about having a turn 3 4/4 or turn 4 5/5 (because of the hero power)

    The first one here is basically the original idea minus having it grow once played, but this one can get out of control much more easily, to be honest, since you can wait until it's grown enough before playing it. The second one is more like Mana Wyrm or Tunnel Trogg, though I'm afraid its attack might get out of control more easily than the other two.

     Also, I have a wording doubt:

    I determined the original wording was too ambiguous, but I'm trying to go for the shortest possible text (which would be the second, though not by much) since I don't like, aesthetically, cards with too tight a text. Let me know which of the two is better in your opinion.

     The rest of the set:

    Again, I think Injured Guardian, Echoed Explosion, Wandering Time Traveler, Wormhole Technician, Temporal Echo, Kairoz, Event Horizon are balanced.

    Haunting Memories: Havent' found better art for this one so far.

    Divination: Haven't changed this one despite the slightly off-curve vibe it has. I hope it's fine.

    Preserve the Timeline: Changed the cost and the art. Hopefully it's better now.

     Any and all feedback appreciated.

    Bronze Watcher - I agree that the original is too weak. I think the 1 mana 1/3 is the safest way to go. It's got good stats, but it's Health won't grow, so it can be countered relatively easily, like nerfed Undertaker. 
    Slow Motion - I think this is a really bad idea. This would make 10 Cost spells unplayable, which isn't fair, even if they aren't used very often. Whenever Blizzard has made an offensive cost increase, it's been temporary. The one exception is Freezing Trap, but you know that's out there, so it's your own fault if you run into it. I think you also need to make this temporary. I think you should make it just that all Spells for the next X turns costs Y more. That would make for easy wording, too.
    Haunted Memories - The problem with this is that it's unplayable unless you have had minions die. The existing cards with this mechanic (e.g., Solemn Vigil) are still playable, albeit inefficient, if no minions have died. Your card just wastes mana if you cast it normally, like in a topdeck.
    Injured Guardian - Good inversion of the holding a Dragon mechanic. I'd make this an example card if you weren't planning to already.
    Echoed Explosion - I think you should word this like Fist of Jaraxxus: "When you play or draw this, deal 1 damage to all characters". Hard to tell if it's balanced. It might be on the weak side, but that's OK. 
    Wandering Time Traveler - This is pretty powerful, considering you get to cast Wild Growth every turn. I think it needs lower stats to compensate.
    Wormhole Technician - This card is kinda clunky, and it seems a little forced. I can see where you were going with the flavor here, but you had to cancel out part of the Basic card to make this one work. I think you could preserve the flavor and make it much simpler if you made it "Deathrattle: Add an Unstable Wormhole to your hand". The implication is that the Wormhole Technician got sucked in. 
    Divination - This would be a pretty hard card to use, but it's a good niche design.
    Temporal Echo - This is the kind of card that would limit design space. It's really easy to do cheap combos with a card like this in your set, so I would just be careful. 
    Preserve the Timeline - I don't like how this is open ended. You can just cast this whenever and you have a get-out-of-jail free card. It would require some actual strategy if you made it only for the next turn. 
    Kairoz - I don't like how this gives you perpetual free card draw. It's only 1 net card each time, but still. I would like if better if it was a stronger effect, but it Silenced itself so it was a one-time thing.
    Bronze Watcher: 1 point for the 1 mana 1/3 then. I'm just scared about this one scaling much faster than Mana Wyrm or Tunnel Trogg, tbh.
    Slow Motion: I'll agree that this is bad for 10 mana spells, and rewording it to exempt them would just make it way too wordy than it already is. What about this?

    I tried to make the wording as clear as possible here. The idea is that the effect doesn't run out until the enemy plays a spell, and then it still goes on for the rest of that turn.
    Haunted Memories: While I agree that none of the other cards with the effect are useless when no minions die, it's not like there are no cards that are useless topdecks when certain conditions are not met. Using Pilfered Power or Echo of Medivh on an empty board would be just as useless. I could change the cost to 2 I suppose, so that you can get at least 1 mana from it at worst, but then it ramps rather quickly with only two death, and making it cost more (while keeping the mana gain higher so that it doesn't 'do nothing') would just make it all the more powerful when a bunch of minions do die.
    Injured Guardian: I haven't made up my mind about which cards I'll show besides the obligatory ones, so I'll keep it in mind. Still though, I myself find the effect a remnant of the original design where it had Latent on top of it so the hold a dragon was a safeguard of sorts. Right now, the effect could be easily substituted with 'If you're holding a Dragon gain +3 Health' and have the body be a 3/1. There would be a difference, I admit, in that the current version can be healed up and cannnot be silenced, as opposed to the 'standard' version.
    Echoed Explosion: Thanks for the wording suggestion, Fist of Jaraxxus totally slipped my mind when trying to word the effect. As for the balance, I don't really mind if it's a bit on the weak side.
    Wandering Time Traveler: I don't really expect this one to survive the turn as it is, to be honest. The earliest you can guarantee to trigger its effect is turn 5, and by then it's not as valuable as earlier on (and even more likelier to get killed, if that's even possible). I could make its Attack 1, its Health 3 or it cost 4, I suppose, but I'm not sure if this warrants it.
    Wormhole Technician: It doesn't really need to cancel out a part of the basic card to work, that's just a plus that really only matters on Unstable Wormholes you were already holding when you played it, since the ones it gives you will most likely not get hindered by the side effect. I also don't see how cancelling a negative effect from Unstable Wormhole is a bad thing anyway. I actually first thought of the first effect, and the second one went in because of the challenge.
    Temporal Echo: I agree that this is kind of a dangerous card, but can you share what you have in mind when you say cheap combos? I'd really like to know, since I don't intend to make cards that damage the face , but I might be missing something here that would be too strong and isn't face damage.
    Preserve the Timeline: I already have a card that gives Immunity for a single turn in the Classic Set (Frozen in Time), and Ice Block is just as much a get out of jail free card as this one is. The difference between my class and mage though, is that, as I've said before, my class doesn't have access to the burn mage has, so it cannot abuse the extra turn as much as mage can. Also, to compensate for the fact that unlike Ice Block, this cannot be countered by secret destruction, I made it cost 2 more than Ice Block for pretty much the same effect. I could just remove this one, but I cannot think of a way to rework it without making it too much like Frozen in Time.
    Kairoz: I wanted to have the legendary have a recurrent effect, honestly. At any rate, the card draw is actually rather slow since once you play it you have to draw it again first and then wait 2 turns before getting to play it again. At this point, I'm more worried about fatigue really. The problem this brings to mind, though, is that my hero power counters fatigue (if you don't play the token) indefinitely. I don't mind if there's a card that does it (Jade Idol is a thing after all), but I might have to change my hero power so that it cannot simply counter fatigue forever.
    Also, I somehow managed to misplace a card I had made earlier for TGT, but now I'm all out of room for it, and I really liked it:

    I could take out Preserve the Timeline or Temporal Echo if they prove to be too bad, but as of now I'm undecided and would like a second opinion on this one.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 14, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion

    So hopefully this will be the last balance pass. I've been toying around with several ideas about the direction I should take with Bronze Watcher and finally decided I should have a second opinion. Let me know which one you think is best:

    These 3 are pretty similar, but I've been told that the first one is weak compared with Questing Adventurer, which barely sees play as it is. I'm hoping either of the other two are balanced, but I'm a little worried about having a turn 3 4/4 or turn 4 5/5 (because of the hero power)

    The first one here is basically the original idea minus having it grow once played, but this one can get out of control much more easily, to be honest, since you can wait until it's grown enough before playing it. The second one is more like Mana Wyrm or Tunnel Trogg, though I'm afraid its attack might get out of control more easily than the other two.

     Also, I have a wording doubt:

    I determined the original wording was too ambiguous, but I'm trying to go for the shortest possible text (which would be the second, though not by much) since I don't like, aesthetically, cards with too tight a text. Let me know which of the two is better in your opinion.

     The rest of the set:

    Again, I think Injured Guardian, Echoed Explosion, Wandering Time Traveler, Wormhole Technician, Temporal Echo, Kairoz, Event Horizon are balanced.

    Haunting Memories: Havent' found better art for this one so far.

    Divination: Haven't changed this one despite the slightly off-curve vibe it has. I hope it's fine.

    Preserve the Timeline: Changed the cost and the art. Hopefully it's better now.

     Any and all feedback appreciated.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 13, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion
    Quote from OBoily >>

    Hero, hero power, upgraded hero power, token, keyword, UPDATED:

    ConvinceCultist

    Comments about the hero power:

    Beneath the Grounds serves as my reference point. It shuffles 3 cards into your opponent's deck, each card being worth 3.5 mana. A Cultist (the new version) is worth 3 mana (a 2/2 minion which replaces itself). Thus, shuffling 3 Cultists into your deck is worth about the same as shuffling 3 Nerubians, which is about 3 mana. Shuffling a single Cultist into your deck should cost 1/3 of this, so about 1 mana. However, shuffling one card at a time is far less efficient than shuffling 3 cards at once. Considering this, shuffling a single Cultist into your deck is worth about 0 mana, and is a fair hero power. Considering the synergy between the hero power and various class cards, I feel the hero power is appropriate as it is now.

    Also, the battlecry on the Cultist token was problematic. As Odinson pointed out, you could just use your hero power repeatedly while in Fatigue, not play the generated Cultists (albeit in an inneficient manner), to not suffer from Fatigue. And that is definitely wrong.

    With this modification, my hero power becomes essentially equivalent to FunPolice's hero power. But it seems that it is more balanced this way, and that it is the correct way to do it.

    For those who thinks the hero power is weak, ahem, may I point out the Priest's hero power, which tends to do nothing during the first few turns of the game? Also, to ensure that the Cult Leader class has something pertinent to do on its 2nd turn, the basic set include two 2-Cost minions.

    At last, I will mention, regarding the variance of the hero power, that it diminishes rapidly the more you use it. FunPolice has multiple cards that interact directly with the Whelps, and that's an excellent approach. In my case, I include card filtering and tutoring (Dreadful Omen, Midnight Gossip) and some cards that interact with Cultists (Secret Gathering). So, there are some ways to ensure that the hero power is "constant".

    (For the upgraded version, I will keep it as it is for the moment. A possibility that I consider is to give +1/+1 to the generated Cultist, or to summon the Cultist straight away.)

    Basic set, for reference:

    Charm of ProtectionDreadful OmenAppealing RecruiterDark BlastDetermined NoviceLead the HereticsDementiaImmolate the ImpureTemptSolemn Liturgy

    Classic Set, for reference:

    Endless RatsEyeless CreatureEvil EnergySecret GatheringLeatherbound JournalWorshiped LeaderMidnight GossipVile DischargeSoul ExtractionIll-Disposed MentorDistorted CataclysmGift of ImmortalityShifting ShadowDon't Fear The ReaperRoselyn the Corrupted

    Blackrock set, UPDATED:

    Ember JetFire Born ColossusInner Flame AdeptBlack Dragon

    Ember Jet and Fire Born Colossus: I have to choose if I keep either of these cards, or if I create something else. (Wrong watermark on EJ.)

    Inner Flame Adept: I won't change the card, as I think it's fairly balanced as it is. It smooths your curve like Jeweled Scarab, gives card advantage like Mana Tide Totem, and has Dragon synergy.

     Tournament set, UPDATED:

    Recent additions: Cloaked Assailant, Bedside Reading (Challenge #2)

    Envious SquireCloaked AssailantTireless GladiatorParanoid CultistBedside ReadingOccult JousterLose All Hope

    Cards I'm working on. Some of them could go in the Tournament set:

    Cover of NightGrand PriestSuccumbInitiate

     If I don't mention a card, it's probably because I think it's fine as is.
    Justicar Hero Power: I liked the idea of summoning the Cultist right away, but given the synergies you have with shuffling cards into your deck, I don't think that one is a good idea. Because of that same reason I think that the current upgraded version is fine, since it buffs those same synergies. Though looking at all your cards right now, I think you can afford to add a few more with that kind of synergy.
    Ember Jet vs Fire Born Colossus: I actually like both of this cards, and whichever doesn't make the cut I'd still like to see in a future set (or at least the effect), to be honest. I would be somewhat trepidant of Fire Born Colossus just because you kinda have to run 4 of them to get some value and it is a rather costly minion, but seeing how the first one costs 6, it's not that far of a stretch to compare it to Mountain GIant in Handlock/Reno Lock (admittedly it's playable 2 turns later, but still). If the decks that run it are slow enough, keeping it in hand shouldn't feel too bad, though I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be running much more in the form of late game threats than this one.
    Ember Jet is neater, I suppose, though I'd be wary of Malygos with this one.
    Inner Flame Adept: I actually like this one pretty much.
    Cloaked Assassin: This would be the second Steath card if I didn't miss anything so it's not without precedent, but even with the theme of the class it felt rather off. I don't think it's bad or unbalanced, just not what I expected to see.
    Paranoid Cultist: I'm only saying this pretty much because of Occult Jouster really, but given that they ARE in the same set, what do you think about making it cost 2 and changing the wording to 'Costs (2) more if you're holding less than two other Cult cards.'? Mechanically there would be no difference but it's slightly more likely to benefit from Occult Jouster this way.
    Bedside Reading: Names of spell go with ' ' or nothing at all, looking at Antonidas, Forgotten Torch and Explorer's Hat. Balance-wise I think it's fine.
    Occult Jouster: Interesting Joust reversal. I think it's fine. See my Paranoid Cultist comment.
    Lose All Hope: I like this one, better than the paladin Brawl wannabe card whose name I can't remember.
    Cover of Night: NOPE. As it is, this is SO abusable with Malygos. Particularly if you have things like Ember Jet, but also Vile Discharge. And you don't really need much more than that, really. Malylock made it work with just Soulfire and Darkbomb and they didn't even have stealth for Maly. Just because Malygos exists, you either have to significantly increase the cost or significantly rework it so it can't be abused with Maly.
    Grand Priest: Too dangerous. What about 'Battlecry: Give all other Grand Priests in your hand and deck +3/+2, but they cost (1) more.'? The second one would be a 6/4 for 3, which is pretty big, and then they would keep growing. You could adjust the buff and remove the cost increase, I suppose, but that was just an idea.
    Succumb: As I said in the Hero Power comment, it wouldn't hurt to have more of this kind of cards. I think it's fine balance-wise.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 12, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion
    Quote from Mewdrops >>
    Quote from Aelxer >>

     

    Anyway, there's some cards I have some doubts about, and I'm open to feedback on the rest:

    vs

    The first one is the original idea, but the second one I feel might be more balanced since it doesn't have the risk of running out of hand while on hand. I could also make it the other way around and have it just gain stats while it's in the hand instead, but I feel that drawing cards was already intrinsic enough to the class to not need the extra flavor of having to be on hand.

    vs

    These two are meant to do EXACTLY the same thing, so if you think they're contradicting each other you're misinterpreting one of them. My main problem is that the first one is kind of ambiguous, while I rather don't like the second one because the text is rather tight on the card. Any input on which is better (or if there's some other wording I might be missing to convey the same idea) is welcome.

    I like the effect as it is, but I'm mostly concerned about finding a mana cost that makes it balanced.

     I feel like I prefer the second Bronze Watcher, since it's effect is just simpler and more elegant. The first one is worded sort of awkwardly. Unfortunately, the second one is also much weaker than Questing Adventurer. I'd even go as far as to say that you might be able to get away with costing it at (2) (take this with a grain of salt). What if the first one only gained stats while in hand?
    I feel like the second wording for Slow Motion is better, simply because I completely misinterpreted the first one.
    As for Preserve the Timeline, I feel like you might want to look at Ice Block. This makes it so that your Ice Block can't be destroyed, so it's guaranteed to trigger. Ending your opponent's turn isn't a big deal, because they'll know that you've played it, so they can plan their turn accordingly and only lethal you after they've played everything they wanted to. Basically, I'd say cost it at (4). Again you should probably take this with several grains of salt.
    Any feedback is better than none, however many grains of salt I need to take it with. I considered making it a 2/2 for 2 or a 3/3 for 3, and I don't know that it would be unbalanced, but I'd rather err on the side of caution. As for comparing it with Questing Adventurer, I think you have to keep in mind that this one pretty much grows every turn, on top of any card draw you may have, and given the class sort of focus on card draw among other things, I don't think there will be much problem having it grow. Just having a Temporal Anomaly and playing it on turn 4 makes it a 4/4 for 3, which is not bad.
    As I said, I also considered having the effect only trigger on hand, but that was mostly the reason the first one felt rather too strong: it can grow a huge amount while on hand and become something like a 3 mana 6/7 or even bigger. Besides, I feel the effect might be too similar to that of Sand Guardian from my basic set, which grows every turn while on hand.
    Since it seems it's the one that least lends itself to confusion, I'll probably stick with the second wording for Slow Motion.
    I considered both 4 and 5 mana costs for Preserve the Timeline, and the fact that I even considered 5 makes me doubt choosing 4 for fear it might be too strong. On the one hand, one of Mage's themes might well be considered having spells that are stronger than spells from other classes, but on the other hand, my class isn't nearly as bursty as Mage, so buying a turn might not be that powerful. I feel mostly that what inflates the value of this card is Frozen in Time from my basic set, since while having a single cards that grants Immunity might be balanced, stacking the effect might end up making it too strong.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 11, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion

    @Asylum: I'm glad you liked the direction I took with the hero power. I couldn't really think of a way to make the token itself stronger without it getting out of hand, and since the class is about time anyway, increasing the speed of the hero power instead of the strength felt quite fine. And it's not like that itself doesn't make it plenty stronger as it is, since it no longer blocks a card draw and can now be played right away (which are two distinctly separate benefits).

    I'm also glad you ended up liking the mechanic. When I first thought of it I mostly compared it to a Battlecry that payed for its effect in time instead of stats, and since I myself like slow decks I grew rather fond of it. Credit where credit is due, though, Kairoz's effect wouldn't be without OBoily's input, for which I'm grateful.

    Also, I rather felt from the start that you didn't much like my ideas since I didn't get much feedback from you (maybe I just misinterpreted the situation), and I really admire your Seer class so having you praise my work felt like a notice me senpai moment :P

    Anyway, there's some cards I have some doubts about, and I'm open to feedback on the rest:

    vs

    The first one is the original idea, but the second one I feel might be more balanced since it doesn't have the risk of running out of hand while on hand. I could also make it the other way around and have it just gain stats while it's in the hand instead, but I feel that drawing cards was already intrinsic enough to the class to not need the extra flavor of having to be on hand.

    vs

    These two are meant to do EXACTLY the same thing, so if you think they're contradicting each other you're misinterpreting one of them. My main problem is that the first one is kind of ambiguous, while I rather don't like the second one because the text is rather tight on the card. Any input on which is better (or if there's some other wording I might be missing to convey the same idea) is welcome.

    I like the effect as it is, but I'm mostly concerned about finding a mana cost that makes it balanced.

     The rest of the cards:

    Injured Guardian, Echoed Explosion, Wandering Time Traveler, Wormhole Technician, Temporal Echo, Kairoz, Event Horizon: I feel all these are rather well balanced as they are, feedback is still appreciated if you think something is off about them.

    Haunting Memories: I've been told the art on this one is rather off for BRM, but I haven't been able to find anything good to replace it with. If anyone has any idea or even a link to some gallery with BRM-y images I could look through, it'd be greatly appreciated.

    Divination: I think the card is fine as it is, but if someone has an idea to remove the awkwardness of playing it on turn 3 without making it too powerful or too weak, I'm all ears.

    Looking back I think I'm pretty well along the set overall, which I didn't really expect so early on, so that's that. All feedback welcome.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 11, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion
    Quote from SoulshifterX >>

    Doubtful gladiator's effect should probably be like grim patron's (Whenever this minion survives damage,). Paranoid cultist may get away with "You can only play this" but it should be "your hand." Overall, nice spread of cards. While I am not the best on balance the art and names seem good.

     He can probably get away with 'Whenever this minion survives combat damage' to keep the effect the same. As for Paranoid Cultist, I prefer 'Can only be played if you're holding 2 other Cult cards'.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    Feb 11, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion
    Quote from OBoily >>

    @Aelxer

    Slow Motion: It does need clarification. What I understand is that if you play the spell right away, each player is disadvantaged, and if you wait for the Latent effect to activate, your opponent's spells cost more and yours cost less instead.

    What about: «Increase the Cost of spells in each player's hand by (1).» (following Emperor Thaurissan's wording)

    And for the Latent effect: «Doesn't apply to your spells.»

    As for the playability, I suppose the card is unplayable without the Latent effect. You can include it in a minion-heavy deck, and play it while your hand doesn't contain too many spells, to reduce its impact on yourself. Even then, it's not guaranteeed that it will hinder your opponent. Maybe he also plays a minion-heavy deck. Or the game is sufficiently advanced that a 1 mana cost increase doesn't matter too much. So, it seems that if you play this card, you would always wait for the latent effect to activate.

    The card is certainly not too strong. It's slow, and its effectiveness depends a lot upon the contents your deck and your opponent's deck, and upon a good timing.

    Divination: Love the effect. The drawback is a good idea. Trying to cheat a big minion into play always come with an enormous drawback (Ancestor's Call or Alarm-o-Bot).

    Hmm, there is something weird about the card. It costs 3, but you can't play it on turn 3. If you try to coin something on turn 4, the coin will cost 5... I don't know if it intended, to prevent the card from being too good, but it doesn't feel natural.

     

    Slow Motion: To be honest, I was rather iffy on the wording myself, but it's what I came up with at the moment. If I had wanted to convey that my spells got reduced INSTEAD of increased, I would have added the word instead at the end, in fact. Still, I think your suggestion will probably make it clearer.
    As for the effect being too weak, I suppose if you play against something like zoo it would be totally worthless, but I imagine it would fill the role of a tech card, really. Something to use when decks like Freeze Mage or to a certain extent Miracle Rogue are abundant, rather than when you're only facing zoo decks. I don't mind if the effect is situational so long as it's not too strong.
    Divination: I guess it might felt off that you can't play the card at 3, but I didn't want to make it 4 mana since then the cost reduction would merely be of 1 and that felt rather weak. I could change it to 4 and make the next card cost 4, but I feel that would be too strong if staggered, so I'd rather it have an awkward mana cost than being too strong.
    I have some updated cards too:
    Injured Guardian: Changed Latent (1) with Battlecry.
     
    Echoed Explosion: Changed second trigger condition to draw instead of being held.
     
    Wandering Time Traveler: Changed name and rarity.
     
    Wormhole Technician: Changed Health from 6 to 5.

     I'm waiting for more feedback on Bronze Watcher before I decide how to change him.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 11, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion
    Quote from The_Odinson >>
    Quote from Aelxer >>

    This is what I've gotten so far myself:

    Hero Power and Keyword:

    BRM:

    Haunting Memories: An Innervate of sorts, since the class dabbled with mana crystals in the Basic set. I went BRM style with this one and made the effect rely on minions that died this turn, much like Solemn Vigil or Volcanic Drake/Lumberer.

    Injured Dragon: Technically, the final effect is positive if you're holding a Dragon, but since the Latent is negative if it triggers, I had to use 'not holding a Dragon' instead. Named after Injured Blademaster and Injured Kvaldir.

    TGT:

    Updraged Hero Power:

    It accelerates things up by a turn. Not much more to say.

    Commons:

    Echoed Explosion: Another ape card, though this one damages everything, much like Warlock's Hellfire. The main incentive to play it is pretty much the fact that otherwise you'll end up destroying your own board and killing yourself. The in hand effect triggers at the end of the turn.

    Bronze Watcher: Is this good enough for challenge #3? I originally worded it 'Whenever you draw a card, gain +1/+1', but I didn't think it implied it triggered while on hand well enough. Is 'in play' the correct wording for this?

     Rares:

    Time Traveler: I'm kinda rescuing this one from my old class design back when I used Scry since the effect seems to work well enough here too.

    Wormhole Technician: I like the design on this one though I'm not sure about the numbers. Do let me know what you think. Also, I think it's working against me that I used Unstable Wormhole as an example card last Phase, but this was just too good to pass up.

     Epics and Legendary:

    Temporal Echo: Originally in the Basic set, then in the Classic set, but finally, it gets to see the light in TGT.

    Preserve the Timeline: I decided a while ago that 10 mana epics would be a gimmick of the class, so there will be one in each set that has epics. I'm not too worried about that, though, since the worst case scenario is that none of them are strong enough, and since all classes have unused cards (specially epics), then it's no harm done. If they're all too good, though, it's still not a problem since running even 1 10 mana cards is already a risky proposition as it stands. At best, they'll see play in different styles of decks.

    Kairoz: An Arcane Intellect that shuffles itself back into the deck if played for the Latent effect, but a rather nice body to make it so one has to actually consider whether they want the draw or the body. Maybe I should've used this one for challenge #3 just for last sentence's wording alone >.>

    Any and all feedback welcome.

    @Asylum: Do let me know if my buff guy is actually buff enough (I think it is but I'm not really sure).

    Edit: Fixed Haunting Memories wording and adjusted the effect.

     

     I don't have much to say before I get into card reviews, which I'll do in a spoiler. I do think your Justicar Trueheart hero power is good. Its a nice simple change, similar to the Warlock Life Tap/Soul Tap difference.

    Haunted Memories - This is an interesting card that seems fair, but the art doesn't work for me. I've said this to numerous people already, but Adventures are not Expansions, and every card is always very thematically tied to the Adventure. Art always hits a flavor note, even when different mechanics are being presented, art always comes through. 

    Injured Guardian - This one works a bit better, both for theme and art. But, I feel like this is just a sick 3/4. The latency allows you to topdeck it and Dragon or not you get a 3/4. That seems pretty crazy. I think you can skip your keyword here. Rogue doesn't have a Combo card in BRM, and many classes don't hit every note, since its only those 1-3 cards, you can't hit everything.

    Echoed Explosion - This card is very hard to judge. Its symmetric so it seems fair. Its definitely a cool concept.

    Bronze Watcher - Considering your Hero Power this seems like it could be very scary. Growing both ways makes it really crazy because its easy to see this commonly being a crazy tempo play in after turn 5, just dropping it as a 3 mana 6/6 or higher. No way to test it to know for sure though. The art is a touch off for me. I mean I get the guys body is the bigger thing, but the name and the style of your other cards don't sync here at all. The wording is "When this is in your hand or on the battlefield...".

    Time Traveller - I don't like cards with super basic version of common names. If you name this simply Time Traveller you can't really use that again. If you name it Plucky Time Traveller or Experienced Time Traveller you gain the ability to use it again later for a different style of card. There isn't a Guard or Rifleman or Archer or whatever, its always got something else because it leaves you space for later. Balance seems ok, though the ramping seems out of place.

    Wormhole Technician - The wording here is messy. "Increase Unstable Wormholes Latency to X" might work. The seems fine otherwise.

    Temporal Echo - This is a rehash, still fine.

    Preserve the Timeline - I hate this. You already had something just like this in your classic set. Now you're doing it all over again at the exact same cost. I mean I know they aren't exactly the same, but they are similar enough that it seems redundant. 

    Kairoz - I like this, its always been cool to me. Still seems great.

     

    Haunting Memories - I'll try to get better art if I can find it, but there's not much I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any suggestion do let me know.
    Injured Guardian - You're probably right and the Latent effect is too much. I originally just wanted to have both Latent and holding a Dragon effects together and came up with the effect later, but it seems the side effect is just not enough to offset the benefit.
    Echoed Explosion - This one was an early concept that I pushed back to TGT because I had no room earlier, so I'll probably have to give it a look and make sure it's balanced.
    Bronze Watcher - I did think the effect might be too strong, hence why I made it a 0/1 for 3 base, but it might still be too much. I'll probably have to change it to just in hand or just in play, or something else I was toying around with: having it increase in cost if it gains stats while in hand. The main problem with that though is that though is that most of the time it will end up costing more mana than what you have available. As for the art, I didn't think it was too off myself. The Watchers are a lore thing where Bronze Dragons make someone Immortal for this or that reason, and I thought the art gave off that vibe at least a little.
    Time Traveler - I'll probably add some descriptor to the card name as you suggested, though I don't see myself making another Time Traveler just yet, it's good to have options open. As for the ramping, thematically I think it works fine what with time and all that. As for the class itself, I already set a precedent with Sands of Time and I like it as an option for the class to keep up with faster decks.
    Wormhole Technician - I personally prefer not to mess with 'change Latency' effects, but maybe that's just me. I don't think the wording is that bad anyway.
    Preserve the Timeline - They are different though. Frozen in Time protects your whole board, and it only works for a turn, regardless of whether your opponent can kill you or not. This one only triggers when your opponent can kill you, no matter how further into the game you are. Much like Ice Block, really, though it's not stopped by secret destruction and technically would save you from fatigue. Still, it might be too weak for what it does, so if I get too much negative feedback on this one I might scrap it. Though it's not really like all class cards are good cards anyway.
     
    Quote from Turkeybag>>

    @Aelxer


    Haunting Memories: Love it! Excellent use of the dying minions mechanic.

    Injured Guardian: I don't think the latent (1) is very relevant as especially early game your always gonna play him the turn you get him. I'd probably just give him that effect without the latent. 3/4 for 2 is extremely powerful after all.

    Echoed Explosion: Seems really OP. You essentially draw and cast a Whirlwind every turn and that makes you auto win vs zoo. I'd scrap the design tbh. Just my thought though. Also this is more like an epic card than a common.

    Bronze Watcher: Seems pretty decent. Though doesn't seem common either.

    Time Traveler: Seems pretty strong but since you can't instantly benefit till turn 5 where the effect isn't as good, it's fair. Should be common though given it's really simple.

    Wormhole Technician: Very strong since it's adding a 1 cost Shadowbolt to your hand. I'd probably make it a 2/5. It does strike me as kinda odd though since by the time the card you generate can benefit from the ignoring effect this card will have almost surely been killed. I know it can work on other copies of so I'm probably just overthinking it.

    Temporal Echo: Like the design. Can give you some cool combos with the drawback of not really giving you any extra answers.

    Preserve the Timeline: Basically a 10 mana Ice Block? Unplayable as is.

    Kairoz: Very powerful and cool legendary. Love it! I do think he'd be cooler with some form of a title though.

    Injured Guardian: I agree. The original effect was more punishing (-2/-2 instead of -3 Health), but as it is, it's too strong for that many safety nets. I'll either go to the orignal drawback or just remove the Latent.
     
    Echoed Explosion: I dunno about the rarity but the effect probably needs a revision. It was an early design that got pushed into this set for lack of room, mostly. What about having it trigger only when played and when drawn?
     
    Bronze Watcher: I guess it might be on the level of Questing Adventurer. I'll switch it to rare if there's room.
     
    Time Traveler: I guess I can swap this one's rarity with Bronze Watcher.
     
    Wormhole Technician: The first effect was mostly intended to work with other copies, yes, though there might be situations where the generated cards benefit. It's also a point of consideration that the effect cannot be too strong anyway since it generates cards on top of that. I could probably afford to make it a 2/5, I guess. Hopefully it doesn't make it too weak.
     
    Preserve the Timeline: You might be right that the effect is too weak, but I wanted to start off with something that isn't OP since I already have an Immunity effect on the Classic set. Compared to Ice Block, it's not a secret so it's not a surprise effect but it's not stoppable by secret destruction and can protect you from fatigue. What would you say is a fair cost (or even slightly overcosted, I don't mind if it's overall too weak since all classes have weak cards).
     
    Kairoz: I though about using his full name, but otherwise I'm not sure what title I'd give him.
     
    Also, I have two cards for the missing slots on TGT:

    Slow Motion: Is this too strong? Too cheap? Any feedback is good. Edit: might need clarification. The Latent effect just cancels the increase from the first part, it doesn't make them cheaper than the currently are.

    Divination: An Innervate that can only be played at 8 mana or staggered over two turns. It has a time limit though with the Latent effect that limits what it can do from mana reduction to just staggering its effect to play something expensive earlier at the cost of a turn.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 11, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase IV Discussion

    This is what I've gotten so far myself:

    Hero Power and Keyword:

    BRM:

    Haunting Memories: An Innervate of sorts, since the class dabbled with mana crystals in the Basic set. I went BRM style with this one and made the effect rely on minions that died this turn, much like Solemn Vigil or Volcanic Drake/Lumberer.

    Injured Dragon: Technically, the final effect is positive if you're holding a Dragon, but since the Latent is negative if it triggers, I had to use 'not holding a Dragon' instead. Named after Injured Blademaster and Injured Kvaldir.

    TGT:

    Updraged Hero Power:

    It accelerates things up by a turn. Not much more to say.

    Commons:

    Echoed Explosion: Another ape card, though this one damages everything, much like Warlock's Hellfire. The main incentive to play it is pretty much the fact that otherwise you'll end up destroying your own board and killing yourself. The in hand effect triggers at the end of the turn.

    Bronze Watcher: Is this good enough for challenge #3? I originally worded it 'Whenever you draw a card, gain +1/+1', but I didn't think it implied it triggered while on hand well enough. Is 'in play' the correct wording for this?

     Rares:

    Time Traveler: I'm kinda rescuing this one from my old class design back when I used Scry since the effect seems to work well enough here too.

    Wormhole Technician: I like the design on this one though I'm not sure about the numbers. Do let me know what you think. Also, I think it's working against me that I used Unstable Wormhole as an example card last Phase, but this was just too good to pass up.

     Epics and Legendary:

    Temporal Echo: Originally in the Basic set, then in the Classic set, but finally, it gets to see the light in TGT.

    Preserve the Timeline: I decided a while ago that 10 mana epics would be a gimmick of the class, so there will be one in each set that has epics. I'm not too worried about that, though, since the worst case scenario is that none of them are strong enough, and since all classes have unused cards (specially epics), then it's no harm done. If they're all too good, though, it's still not a problem since running even 1 10 mana cards is already a risky proposition as it stands. At best, they'll see play in different styles of decks.

    Kairoz: An Arcane Intellect that shuffles itself back into the deck if played for the Latent effect, but a rather nice body to make it so one has to actually consider whether they want the draw or the body. Maybe I should've used this one for challenge #3 just for last sentence's wording alone >.>

    Any and all feedback welcome.

    @Asylum: Do let me know if my buff guy is actually buff enough (I think it is but I'm not really sure).

    Edit: Fixed Haunting Memories wording and adjusted the effect.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 6, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase III Submission

    The Bronze Guardian

    As a member of the Bronze Dragonflight, Moradormi has extensive knowledge about the future. She knows exactly what is meant to happen, and what isn't. Or so she thought. Discovering the ultimate fate of her flight, their corruption into the Infinite Dragonflight, turned the once optimist dragon into a full-on cynic. Still, she strives to make the future a better place, perhaps trying to atone for deeds not yet commited.

    Class Keyword

    Classic Card Examples

    Unstable Wormhole: Unstable Portal? That hasn't been released yet! 

    A very cheap soft removal that only works the turn it's drawn. Occasionally, its secondary effect can be used to fight off fatigue, but that's a rather rare use. If you don't get to use it right away, you'll be technically paying 1 additional mana to play it on top of having to draw it again.

    Time Wraith: The spirit of someone that was erased from the timeline.

    A big minion with average stats, its effect will most likely always go off unless its topdecked (in which case it's still not a bad topdeck at all). Unless the 'Can't be targeted by spells or Hero Powers' effect, this one can still take damage from any source, but destruction effect (even ones such as Emperor Cobra's or Twisting Nether or Brawl) will unfaze it.

    Protector of Memories: What was he supposed to protect, again?

    A rather straightforward example of a theme of the class: effects that trigger while on hand. There's a variety of triggers, this one in particular being friendly minion's death. Similar to Thing from Below, though a tad slower unless you run a myriad of early game minions, which the class isn't inclined to support.

    Doomsday Clock: Time takes us all.

    Another card that changes while on hand, though this simple does it once per turn, growing in power the longer you hold it. Inspired by Shield Slam in that it uses the class theme to do act as removal (Armor for Shield Slam, card draw for this one). Clearly not meant to act as early game removal unless the situation is dire. Gets its name from a song by Smashing Pumpkins.

    Full Classic Set

    Commons

    Timeless Whelp: Dragon synergy hasn't been released yet, right?

    A card with potentially infinite value, though rather slow at achieving it and also not really worth much in the lategame. Can always be played right away as a small single body if needed, or every other turn to add a trickle of pressure.

    Incoming Meteor: Nobody saw it coming.

    The strongest aoe damage removal so far for the class, or at least when the Latent effect is on. Otherwise, it's just an overpriced Arcane Explosion.

    Phasing Defender: He claims he doesn't like playing tank, but it's just a phase.

    Can act as either a reusable Frost Nova if the opponent can kill or destroy it, or a better Healing Touch if they can. The body can still offer some token resistance in the late game but replaying it constantly will leave you dry on mana while your opponent can setup.

    Timeless Miracle: Not to be confused by Timeless Mirage.

    One of the few and strongest class healing effects, it can get insane value if only it just sits in your hand long enough, while still being a rather expensive crutch against aggro.

     

    Rares

    Uncertain Death: The cause of death is not what's uncertain: it's clearly the devilsaur.

    I suppose this could still change at some point in the future, but since it was one of the cards I first showed on Phase I I'm rather fond of it. Given I'm short on time, I decided to keep it as it is for now.

    Foreboding Vision: Don't look!

    Only card that can (and does) go face from the class so far. I don't intend that to change much in the future.

    Peer into the Future: What did you see?

    Overcosted card draw until the Latent effect kicks in. The wording might be unusual, but I rather liked how it ended up. 

    Keeper of Memories: Sometimes gets tired of cleaning up Protector of Memories' messes.

    A new iteration for a different mana slot. This one hasn't been thought over as much as the rest yet, but since I'm short on time it'll have to do.

    Epics and Legendary

    Harbinger of Doom: Doomsayer's older brother.

    The strongest class board clear, since at its peak it can be a Twisting Nether for 7 that leaves a body. To get the benefit right away, though, it need to sit in hand as an otherwise dead card from turn 2 though.

    Frozen in Time: When Time itself gives you the cold shoulder.

    It buys you one turn, and your board too most of the time (unless Twisting Nether or something of the sort). At 10 mana, you can only work with what you already have, though.

    Soridormi: Why are you reading this?

    The effect makes it so whenever a card with Latent is played, its effect will trigger regardless of the time the card has spent in the hand. Clearly inspired by Fandral.

    Basic Set

    Alter Fate: Pretty straightforward. This one works with negative Latent effects you don't want in your hand. It also serves to refresh your hand if you having nothing good. It's meant as a counterpart for Time Mirage and isn't meant to be run in the same kind of decks.

    Bronze Apprentice: A mirrored draw effect, it lets the opponent choose when to draw as it's not meant to enable fatigue decks. 

    Time Skip: I'm rather proud of this one. It's a spell that works in a myriad of different situations. It can be used like Frost Nova with Doomsayer, but if it's past turn 4, you can still play stuff afterwards. Turn 8+ with Ragnaros for an extra Fireball. It will affect cards with Latent making them trigger one turn earlier. It also works with the next card by cancelling the debuff it places in the drawn cards.

    Time Mirage: A cheaper Arcane Intellect with a drawback (much like Ancestral Knowledge) which synergizes pretty well with positive latent effects as well as "Each turn this is/was in your hand" cards.

    Time Warp:  This works pretty well with anything you wouldn't mind having extra copies of.

    Sands of Time: This card works much like Nourish for both players, so technically the net cost of the card is only 1 mana. It helps at pushing into the late game against faster decks that don't care about their mana but rather their cards, but it's not really the same as ramp Druid cards since this one can backfire if played carelessly.

    Time Loop: Another card draw of sorts, though this one is never useful standalone.

    Bronze Healer: Another mechanic from the class, though this one finds its home with cards that don't benefit from staying in your hand and are therefore more likely to run Alter Fate.

    Sand Guardian: I'm taking the opportunity to reinforce the theme of the class: holding stuff in your hand to get stronger effects later on. This particular line of effects, in contrast with Latent effect, scales with the time spent in your hand instead of being a fixed effect on a specific threshold of turns. Much like Latent effects, though, both positive and negative effects exist.

    Rewind Time: Right in-between Vanish and Twisting Nether. Allows you to get the most value from played Battlecries and similar effects while clearing the board.

     And that's all there is for now.

     

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 5, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase III Discussion
    Quote from The_Odinson >>
    Quote from Aelxer >>

    I'm pretty close to done I think but I still have some balance concerns and there can always be something I'm overlooking on the cards I think are done so all feedback is welcome.

    Class Hero Power and Keyword:

     

    vs

    The first one is stronger than the second one most of the time, but I'm afraid the second one is just too weak. Right now I'm trying for something that can compete with Twilight Drake if not as a top deck (clearly) at least as a turn 1 keep.

    Another option I suppose would be scrapping the idea since it might be silly to have it compete with Twilight Drake in a class with a card draw based hero power such as this one, now that I think about it. Let me know what you think.

    vs

    The cause of death is not what's uncertain: it's clearly the devilsaur.

    This one is not so much a balance concern but rather a thematic one. In its current incarnation (1st one) the card is rather weak for any deck made with the cards I've shown so far. I wanted to have it that way so as to be able to add more cards with similar effects (cards you want to play right away) and enable a more aggressive playstyle at the expense of only running cards that are good right away, but I dunno if this one in particular is a good target for the reverse effect, given it's the only hard removal so far.

    Phasing Defender: He claims he doesn't like playing tank, but it's just a phase.  I actually like the card in its current incarnation, but I wanted to know what others think about the stats. I went for Deathlord with the intention of making it a pseudo Frost Nova of sorts, at least early game.

    Time Wraith: I expect the extra effect won't be too hard to get by turn 8 unless it's a topdeck, but since the effect doesn't really feel game changing either way, I didn't want to make it too weak stat wise. Is it too much or is it okay?

    Harbinger of Doom: Doomsayer's older brother. A rather powerful effect that you'd have to be holding since turn 2 in order to get off right away in turn 7. I'm not sure about its balance, though, since it leaves a body on the board after its effect goes off (its own).

     The rest of the set, which I'm more confident about:

    Commons:

    Unstable Wormhole: Unstable Portal? That hasn't been released yet! A Shadow Bolt 2 mana cheaper, but it must be played right away.

    Timeless Whelp: Dragon synergy hasn't been released yet, right? Without its effect it's a rather weak vanilla card, but it can get potentially infinite value at an extremely slow pace. Also, it's a good dragon enabler I'd think.

    Incoming Meteor: An overcosted Arcane Explosion that can become a really great aoe if held long enough.

    Timeless Miracle: Much better than Timeless Mirage. A slow healing spell that can become massive given enough time.

    Rares:

    Foreboding Vision: Don't look! The only spell that can (and does) go face so far.

    Peer into the Future: I like how this one turned out. It's rather overcosted for card draw, but its extra effect is great at protecting your minions.

    Protector of Memories: What was he supposed to be protecting again? Similar to Thing from Below, but hopefully slower since it has to be in hand to get the reduction and the class doesn't have too many small minions to sacrifice early on.

    Epics and Legendary:

    Doomsday Clock: Time takes us all. Inspired by Shield Slam, though admittedly much slower.

    Frozen in Time: It buys you a turn unless your opponent has Vanish or Twisting Nether.

    Soridormi: It makes it so all Latent effects trigger regardless of whether or not they've been in hand long enough. I decided to go for this one for Classic since I added another Latent effect to the set, and I suppose it would be even more convincing if I changed Uncertain Death too.

     Thanks for any and all feedback.

     

     Sooo many spoilers without headers telling me what's in there! Anyway, reviews in spoiler.

    Keeper of Memories - I think the first one of these is fine. The second one is definitely weak. You could give this a higher base health and use the second trigger though, so its less dead when you topdeck it, and it would make that a potential sub theme along side Protector of Memories.

    Uncertain Death - I always liked the original/first version of this card. You're not likely keeping this in your opening hand, and because of your hero power its not hard to find it and use it the turn you draw it.

    Phasing Defender - This card is scary. Its a super wall, and if they can't punch through it they are just stuck. This even brickwalls a lot of midgame minions without back up, that's a pretty major deal. I think Deathlord stats are a bit too high, I would prefer to see something like Dirty Rat, even at 2 mana, because then at least more single creatures or creatures plus hero powers can get past it. In this form its almost too good at protecting your guys and yourself for its cost. Deathlord had a very very serious drawback, even against aggro, the main drawback here is just that you can't attack, but there is a huge amount of upside of this needing to be fully killed.

    Time Wraith - Cool card. Unique effect we haven't see before. I'd almost rather this gain the Can't Be Targeted wording.

    Harbinger of Doom - I still think this is pretty strong, but again, its not really possible to test this stuff without doing a bunch of weird fake testing and that would still likely not give you the full picture. I understand you not changing it.

    Unstable Wormhole - Great change from the Fading Fireball. I like the concept, have you thought about letting the Latency also draw you a card? Maybe that's too strong, but it seems like throwing back 1-2 of these, and the general negative synergy with your legendary means they could use a bit of a boost. 

    Timeless Whelp - Still good.

    Incoming Meteor - Was happy to see this change just that little bit. 

    Timeless Miracle - Cool new art.

    Foreboding Vision - Still good.

    Peer into the Future -  Still good.

    Protector of Memories -  I know I already said this, I think keeping the trigger on this and Keeper of Memories the same is a good call.

    Doomsday Clock - Still good. Happy to see this return to the original 1 starting damage.

    Frozen in Time - Still good. I don't know how much I like the MTG Timewarp art here. Might I suggest looking up Suspend using gatherer or maybe even Split Second.

    Soridormi - Still good.

     

     

     

    Keeper of Memories - One of my first designs for this one was actualy a 4/3 that gained Health on friendly minions taking damage, but I was told that was too strong so I changed it into what it's now.

    At any rate, my main concern with this one right now is not of balance but rather the fact that it's competing for the 4 mana slot with Twilight Drake in a class that has easy access to card draw. I think I should probably change it to fit another spot on the curve.

    Also, I'm not really fond of having getting buffs on minion's deaths be a theme. I rather wanted the theme on these kind of cards simply be the fact that their effects trigger only when they're in your hand, and then have a variaty of triggers instead of just the one. That's the reason the original version triggered on damage instead of death.

    Uncertain Death -  I don't like getting conflicting opinions on cards >.< My idea though was that having easy access to card draw would be a disadvantage for this card in particular since you can end up drawing it too early (as in, when you don't have enough mana) or just when you have no use for it. I suppose I could always just make it a 6 mana card and the latent effect reduce the cost by 2, but I thought that'd be too boring.

    Phasing Defender - My line of thought for thinking this isn't actually too OP is not only the fact that it can't attack, but the fact that you also have to replay it every turn if you want to keep up the effect. If your opponent ignores it, then it's no better than a Frost Nova and if it's killed then it's little better than Healing Touch. But that's only if it's played early enough to wall anything or if your opponent has no removal for it. Late game, Frost Nova at least is probably way better than this. Given how my class isn't really meant to be aggressive, I thought it would be okay, but maybe leaving the stats as is and making it cost 4 mana would make it more balanced? What do you think?

    Time Wraith - I thought about giving it that effect, since it would be more flavorful, really, but I wanted it to have a more unique effect.

    Harbinger of Doom - I was hoping that even if it is rather strong that would be fine since the class is control oriented.

    Unstable Wormhole - While the current effect does help against fatigue, I think having it cycle itself on top of being able to be used later may be too strong. I could change it so that I draws instead of shuffling itself into the deck so if you get the Latent trigger the card is done for anyway. I still rather like the effect as it is though.

    Frozen in Time - I looked up the art but I didn't find anything too convincing (most of the suspend cards had no art on gatherer, actually).

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 5, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase III Discussion

    @Zanywoop: I considered changing the hero power to summoning a 0/1 that draws a card (either at the start or end of the turn, not sure about balance) back when Mewdrops did, but since noone complained about it I didn't feel it necessary.

    -I will probably have to rework Keeper of Memories (again) if I have enough time, specially since it does kind of overlap with Protector of Memories. Unless I change the hero power as I mentioned above, in which case minion death/damage would be enabled by the hero power and thus be somewhat thematic I guess.

    -Given how little Deadly Shot is played, you're probably right, though maybe that's just because slow hunter decks are not the norm.

    -I considered making it 2 mana 2/6 but I wanted to give it a change (however little) to survive in the late game too.

    -I was considering 7/9 and 8/8 statlines when I made it, and maybe it's too greedy to have it be able to trade off with Rag as a common.

    -I didn't want to go for a smaller Latent effect on this one because when the effect does go off it's really a big deal since it gives you initiative and you can also play a 3 mana card on the same turn on 10 which is actually pretty big after clearing the board.

    -I can probably reword it to include that. The wording as it stands (for both this and Doomsday Clock) is mostly an attempt to format it in a way that can reflect the current strength of the effect on the card (it would change the 7 to whatever value it would heal if you played it that turn).

    -I'm sorry, but I'm not exactly sure if you're saying it's too strong or too weak as it is. >.<

    -The way you mentioned Taunt makes me think you might have misunderstood the card. I makes all friendly characters Immune. That includes the hero.

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

    0

    Feb 4, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase III Discussion

    I'm pretty close to done I think but I still have some balance concerns and there can always be something I'm overlooking on the cards I think are done so all feedback is welcome.

    Class Hero Power and Keyword:

     

    vs

    The first one is stronger than the second one most of the time, but I'm afraid the second one is just too weak. Right now I'm trying for something that can compete with Twilight Drake if not as a top deck (clearly) at least as a turn 1 keep.

    Another option I suppose would be scrapping the idea since it might be silly to have it compete with Twilight Drake in a class with a card draw based hero power such as this one, now that I think about it. Let me know what you think.

    vs

    The cause of death is not what's uncertain: it's clearly the devilsaur.

    This one is not so much a balance concern but rather a thematic one. In its current incarnation (1st one) the card is rather weak for any deck made with the cards I've shown so far. I wanted to have it that way so as to be able to add more cards with similar effects (cards you want to play right away) and enable a more aggressive playstyle at the expense of only running cards that are good right away, but I dunno if this one in particular is a good target for the reverse effect, given it's the only hard removal so far.

    Phasing Defender: He claims he doesn't like playing tank, but it's just a phase.  I actually like the card in its current incarnation, but I wanted to know what others think about the stats. I went for Deathlord with the intention of making it a pseudo Frost Nova of sorts, at least early game.

    Time Wraith: I expect the extra effect won't be too hard to get by turn 8 unless it's a topdeck, but since the effect doesn't really feel game changing either way, I didn't want to make it too weak stat wise. Is it too much or is it okay?

    Harbinger of Doom: Doomsayer's older brother. A rather powerful effect that you'd have to be holding since turn 2 in order to get off right away in turn 7. I'm not sure about its balance, though, since it leaves a body on the board after its effect goes off (its own).

     The rest of the set, which I'm more confident about:

    Commons:

    Unstable Wormhole: Unstable Portal? That hasn't been released yet! A Shadow Bolt 2 mana cheaper, but it must be played right away.

    Timeless Whelp: Dragon synergy hasn't been released yet, right? Without its effect it's a rather weak vanilla card, but it can get potentially infinite value at an extremely slow pace. Also, it's a good dragon enabler I'd think.

    Incoming Meteor: An overcosted Arcane Explosion that can become a really great aoe if held long enough.

    Timeless Miracle: Much better than Timeless Mirage. A slow healing spell that can become massive given enough time.

    Rares:

    Foreboding Vision: Don't look! The only spell that can (and does) go face so far.

    Peer into the Future: I like how this one turned out. It's rather overcosted for card draw, but its extra effect is great at protecting your minions.

    Protector of Memories: What was he supposed to be protecting again? Similar to Thing from Below, but hopefully slower since it has to be in hand to get the reduction and the class doesn't have too many small minions to sacrifice early on.

    Epics and Legendary:

    Doomsday Clock: Time takes us all. Inspired by Shield Slam, though admittedly much slower.

    Frozen in Time: It buys you a turn unless your opponent has Vanish or Twisting Nether.

    Soridormi: It makes it so all Latent effects trigger regardless of whether or not they've been in hand long enough. I decided to go for this one for Classic since I added another Latent effect to the set, and I suppose it would be even more convincing if I changed Uncertain Death too.

     Thanks for any and all feedback.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • Aelxer's avatar

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    Feb 2, 2017
    Aelxer posted a message on ASYLUM'S GAUNTLET (Class Creation Competition #3) - Phase III Discussion

    The set is coming around I think, but I could still use some input.

    Unstable Wormhole: Cheap removal that can only be used the turn its drawn.

    Timeless Whelp: It'll grow up to become an enabler. Early game minion that can be held for increased value later on.

    Incoming Meteor: Overcosted Arcane Explosion right away or a rather strong removal if held.

    Phasing Defender: This one went through several iterations before getting here. I'm still not certain on the balance, but I don't think it's too bad as it is.

    Timeless Miracle: Class-themed healing. Not too effective against aggro but very efficient in drawn out matches. Named after the band of the same name.

    Time Wraith: I'm iffy on the stats yet, but I like the effect. I'm looking for feedback on this one.

    Uncertain Death: A reverse Latent effect. Best effective the turn it's drawn. Unsure of whether to switch the effects around and just make positive Latent effects.

    Foreboding Vision: One of the few class spells that can go face.

    Keeper of Memories: This one went through a lot and I'm still not sure it's balanced. Another possible iteration:

     Peer into the Future: Trying out a rather unconventional wording. Do let me know what you think.

    Protector of Memories: Similar to Thing from Below, but the effect only triggers while it's on hand.

    Doomsday Clock: Similar to Shield Slam, but attuned to the class theme.

    Harbinger of Doom: I'm open to balance regarding this one.

    Frozen in Time: Not much to say about this one. A big spell with a big effect.

     Let me know what you think and what could use improvement.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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