So you're averaging 1.5 Damage per cast of Defile, and with the 30 cast limit, it's a total of 45 damage out of the combo, not counting the juggles from the setup.
Basically, you've created a faster C'Thun that also completely nukes the opponent's side of the board (assuming they survive it), in a ZooLock style deck.
... Awesome.
Edit: Well, this combo wins on the "annoy your opponent", but I'm suspecting that Grim Patron simply isn't fast enough (animation wise) to make this viable.
That and you're not doing enough damage/Defile cast to guarantee the OTK. That said, Grim Patron + Defile + Possessed Villager or Elven Archer on Grim Patron is actually a really effective board clear that leaves you with a bunch of patrons for 8 mana and will have probably burnt out your opponent's side of the board, so there is some upside from looking into this combo =D
How does that kill your opponent? Clickbait of the highest order.
Actually no, it's not clickbait.
The Knife Juggler will juggle each time a Grim Patron is spawned, and Elven Archer on a Grim Patron will setup your side of the board with a 3, 2, and 1 health minion. As the Grim Patrons will spawn each time a Defile goes off, you get a perpetual cast of Defile from the setup. As I saw on the stream with Brode and Kibbler earlier today, Defile cleans up the board prior to being recast. This means an infinite generation of Grim Patrons, which is an infinite amount of procs from Knife Juggler - making the combo theoretically infinite damage - but IIRC the game limits a cast of a spell at 30 times.
Deathspeaker is needed to ensure that Knife Juggler does not die (because it's immune the turn of the combo), but Deathspeaker is dead after about 4 iterations freeing up board space. Elven Archer is dead after the first iteration as well. After about 5 iterations, most everything on the opponent's side of the board is probably dead, so the procs from Knife Juggler start going face a lot sooner than anticipated.
You can also use that new minion that procs the end of turn effect a second time to get double ticks on a few of the cards in case you don't have all of them right away. Seems quite viable considering some of the other combos people have pulled off
Interesting.... But I feel like you will run out of time before you can do 30 damage. Also what is the likely hood that you will have those exact cards when needed?
So you're averaging 1.5 Damage per cast of Defile, and with the 30 cast limit, it's a total of 45 damage out of the combo, not counting the juggles from the setup.
Basically, you've created a faster C'Thun that also completely nukes the opponent's side of the board (assuming they survive it), in a ZooLock style deck.
sinceb blizzard explained they put a limit to patron spawns/defile this combo is not possible
IIRC, the limit is 30.
That's at least 30 juggles, a board full of patrons, and nothing on the opponent's side of the board. As Defile will not trigger the next iteration unless something dies[/card] you've just got to make sure something on your side of the board dies each time Defile is cast so at least one Grim Patron will die.
That's not how it works when you're chaining Whirlwind effects with warrior.
We'll have to test this when it comes out later this week, but I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a thing.
Edit:
I think defile is capped at 14 because the board only fits 14 minions normally and even 14 minions takes a while to play the visuals for.
I am not at work now though so I can't 100% verify it.
That's not a denial, that's a "I think it works this way".
Either way, all you'd need to repeat the combo is another Knife Juggler, Deathspeaker and Defile because the opponent will have probably not cleared out your patrons.
Given what was said about Dreadsteed, I'm inclined to believe that the proc'd abilities will go off between Defile casts, so the the combo probably goes on longer than you'd think it will.
Animations, on the other hand, are going to be the bottleneck.
That's not how it works when you're chaining Whirlwind effects with warrior.
We'll have to test this when it comes out later this week, but I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a thing.
Edit:
I think defile is capped at 14 because the board only fits 14 minions normally and even 14 minions takes a while to play the visuals for.
I am not at work now though so I can't 100% verify it.
That's not a denial, that's a "I think it works this way".
Either way, all you'd need to repeat the combo is another Knife Juggler, Deathspeaker and Defile because the opponent will have probably not cleared out your patrons.
Given what was said about Dreadsteed, I'm inclined to believe that the proc'd abilities will go off between Defile casts, so the the combo probably goes on longer than you'd think it will.
Animations, on the other hand, are going to be the bottleneck.
Don't focus so much on the I think part. There clearly is a cap the only thing he isn't sure about is whether its 14 or not, but 14 seems pretty reasonable.
That's not how it works when you're chaining Whirlwind effects with warrior.
We'll have to test this when it comes out later this week, but I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a thing.
Edit:
I think defile is capped at 14 because the board only fits 14 minions normally and even 14 minions takes a while to play the visuals for.
I am not at work now though so I can't 100% verify it.
That's not a denial, that's a "I think it works this way".
Either way, all you'd need to repeat the combo is another Knife Juggler, Deathspeaker and Defile because the opponent will have probably not cleared out your patrons.
Given what was said about Dreadsteed, I'm inclined to believe that the proc'd abilities will go off between Defile casts, so the the combo probably goes on longer than you'd think it will.
Animations, on the other hand, are going to be the bottleneck.
Don't focus so much on the I think part. There clearly is a cap the only thing he isn't sure about is whether its 14 or not, but 14 seems pretty reasonable.
14 is also the number of minion board slots, so it can be argued that Donais' not taking minion spawning into consideration.
Dude, he is just giving us the logic behind the hard cap number. The idea is under normal circumstances you can expect to kill up to 14 minions, so they set a hard cap of 14. At most it casts itself 13 additional times (or whatever number they've set).
Dude, he is just giving us the logic behind the hard cap number. The idea is under normal circumstances you can expect to kill up to 14 minions, so they set a hard cap of 14. At most it casts itself 13 additional times (or whatever number they've set).
And I'm saying we need to test it because there's two ways to read what Donais had said and what was said isn't conclusive - just confirming that a cap does exist and what what the cap is in anything that's actually useful to theorycrafting.
Dude, he is just giving us the logic behind the hard cap number. The idea is under normal circumstances you can expect to kill up to 14 minions, so they set a hard cap of 14. At most it casts itself 13 additional times (or whatever number they've set).
And I'm saying we need to test it because there's two ways to read what Donais had said and what was said isn't conclusive - just confirming that a cap does exist and what what the cap is in anything that's actually useful to theorycrafting.
Cool, I thought you were misunderstanding what I was saying. Please, test away. :)
Going back to how Dreadsteed got nerfed.... I've figured out an OTK combo in warlock that uses a lot of the same cards, and here's how it works:
Emperor Thaurissan tick on Knife Juggler, Defile, Grim Patron, Elven Archer, Deathspeaker
Play order on 8+ mana with 5 open board spots :
At this point, everything on the opponent's side of the board is dead.
Making the assumption that patron spawns occur before deaths, here's what the board looks like (with the Knife Juggler omitted) in defile casts:
So you're averaging 1.5 Damage per cast of Defile, and with the 30 cast limit, it's a total of 45 damage out of the combo, not counting the juggles from the setup.
Basically, you've created a faster C'Thun that also completely nukes the opponent's side of the board (assuming they survive it), in a ZooLock style deck.
... Awesome.
Edit:
Well, this combo wins on the "annoy your opponent", but I'm suspecting that Grim Patron simply isn't fast enough (animation wise) to make this viable.
That and you're not doing enough damage/Defile cast to guarantee the OTK. That said, Grim Patron + Defile + Possessed Villager or Elven Archer on Grim Patron is actually a really effective board clear that leaves you with a bunch of patrons for 8 mana and will have probably burnt out your opponent's side of the board, so there is some upside from looking into this combo =D
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How does that kill your opponent? Clickbait of the highest order.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
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I can't wait to see the Trolden video.
10/10 best combo ive seen in a looong time in HS! Gonna try it for sure! Well spotted!
You can also use that new minion that procs the end of turn effect a second time to get double ticks on a few of the cards in case you don't have all of them right away. Seems quite viable considering some of the other combos people have pulled off
Interesting.... But I feel like you will run out of time before you can do 30 damage. Also what is the likely hood that you will have those exact cards when needed?
If the board is full another patron is not summoned. even if one died. I don't think this spawns infinite patrons.
So on your step 3 the 3/3 patron is not summoned leaving you a gap where defile wouldn't kill anything on step 5.
sinceb blizzard explained they put a limit to patron spawns/defile this combo is not possible
And it can work in a Reno deck
Would it work with possessed villager instead of elven Archer?
Defile is hard-capped at 14 due to only being able to have 14 minions at any time in play. A dev confirmed this so the combo doesn't work.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6rrnfn/op_wild_shadowreaper_andiun_combo/dl7x0ob/
Edit: I added the direct quote from Mike Donais
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That's not a denial, that's a "I think it works this way".
Either way, all you'd need to repeat the combo is another Knife Juggler, Deathspeaker and Defile because the opponent will have probably not cleared out your patrons.
Given what was said about Dreadsteed, I'm inclined to believe that the proc'd abilities will go off between Defile casts, so the the combo probably goes on longer than you'd think it will.
Animations, on the other hand, are going to be the bottleneck.
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Dude, he is just giving us the logic behind the hard cap number. The idea is under normal circumstances you can expect to kill up to 14 minions, so they set a hard cap of 14. At most it casts itself 13 additional times (or whatever number they've set).
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