Fan of the class and got multiple legends with the control variant, even grinding in tier 4 metas with it, but why exactly it is doing so bad these days(other than war axe nerf ~RIP)?
Sure, the classic and basic sets are very good, got cheap removal(execute and shield slam) and good aoe with rng(brawl), even we still had win axe, would the class do fine?
Mostly no. These removal does not provide enough tempo anymore with bonemares and corridor creepers, same to brawl, as boards go taller as oppose to wide. But if the old aggro slayer can't beat with consistency aggro, what do it do against midrange and control? Do I need to answer? Yes, it's still possible to grind in legend with N'zoth, mill, big, tempo variants, but the ammount of grinding and thinking time is way a turn off against tier 2 and 1 deck, which every other class got a foot on.
But what about other sets? Then we got the conclusion of the title question, simples, newer warrior cards are way TOO FAIR in comparison to what others got. With very little to no mechanics to abuse, and when they work, is mostly in specific matchups and got obliterate in the rest. Even aggro/ tempo.
Sure, we got a period of pirate warrior dominancy, but other than it being a braindead aggro deck which I despise, (also, important to note, I despise BRAINDEAD decks, like jade druid too, not exactly AGGRO decks), was mostly due to neutral cards and lack of tempo counter-play by other matchups in the time.
I know the game isn't the most complex and deep, but from the moment it went to """""e-sports""""", I though it's valid to discuss :)
A lack of good cards. The class has a few decent cards that play well in certain archetypes, but where the objectively powerful cards? What's Warrior's Vilespine Slayer? Or Ultimate Infestation? Its Primordial Glyph or Spikeridged Steed? It seems like other classes just have so many auto-include cards, many of which are great tempo plays. Warrior is just left with a few strong control cards in a meta where they're severely outclassed by several other control decks.
Mostly, it's because fiery war axe got nerfed and warrior doesn't really have any other good tools other than the usual removal (brawl, execute, and shield slam.) Even then, most of what warrior still has isn't high in power level compared to everything else. Lots of situational, deck restrictive cards while other classes get cards that are just good on their own.
Warriors aren't alone. Shamans can't do anything either. It's also worth mentioning that warriors got fair cards while Shamans got probably the worst set of cards a class has ever gotten in an expansion in KFT. The thing is all Blizzard doesn't just print interesting cards anymore, these days Blizzard prints objectively overpowered cards (if possible in higher rarities) to push classes. Just look at everything Priest has gotten since Gadgetzan. Everyone would have flipped a table if any other class had gotten that amount of insane cards. Same seems to affect Warlock now with cards like Kobold Librarian. We can expect to hear "Me take Book!" in every Warlock match until the rotation of 2018.
Currently playing a Nzoth deck, and warrior got plenty of tools to deal with aggro.
I've just reached rank 5, and sure it's not a T1 deck, but to be honest the only matchup which is an uphill battle is razzakus priest.. i should be able to reach legend with it.
Big priest is difficult but feasible.. depends if they have a really, really good hand.
it's mostly luck of the draw - sleep with the fishes is still very potent tempo-wise, garrosh DK is great at fighting boards of 5/5 and execute is still a very powerful tempo tool with enough whitlwind effects.
Fiery Axe is the only card keeping warrior after so many expansions of crap cards, the nerf in your last relevant card kill the class.
Priest receive the most broken hero, warrior hero is only better than paladin and not for a large margin, priest received a dragon what destroy completely any early agression your opponent have and a 7 manas removal make any token deck cry for mama, warrior receive a mass removal with need to remove all your armor advantage, priest have a broken overstated dragon discover the best card from opponent deck, warrior have nothing.
The very last deck warrior have, the pirate, died without Axe.
FWA was a heavy loss b/c they took the best weapon and made it the worst. They should have reworked it somehow so just pirates stop benefit from it. I can't blame Blizz for nerfing Warsong, though.
I see streamers (rarely meet players ) playing DMH warrior which is an amazing deck, but extremely hard to pilot correctly. No surprise it's not popular b/c it requires a lot of thinking, the games are really long and the deck is not that strong compared to the meta decks. I'd love if they push it a little bit in the next exp.
Tempo style warrior is just a strictly worse version of tempo rogue or hunter or warlock. It’s not a bad deck it’s just outclassed so there’s not much reason to play it. And late game warrior decks do have really powerful late game, but they can’t consistently survive to get to it.
God people have such short memories. Thank god we don’t have 5 competitive warrior decks anymore
That's the whole problem of hearthstone summarized in 2 sentences, blizzard thinks it's fine to have some classes on the god tier while some others eat shit for a couple expansions and then cycle the classes, priest was a meme tier class for 3 years and now blizzard decided to have both raza and anduin on the same standart year and in 4 months the class will loose a lot of power for every single solid archetype and I guarantee you in maybe 2 expansions priest will be unplayable garbage, not even meme worthy, Warrior has been getting a bunch of ass cards for a couple expansions now and Shaman is paying the price for being the king of 2016, the only half decent card it got to face the meta monsters some classes are rn in the last 2 expansions is unstable evolution but that's ok cause it was op a year ago, priest will seat in the dumpster next year, then maybe druid or rogue will take the seat, after that will be warlock's turn and that's how blizzards "balances" this game. I'm not saying that the game should be absolutely balanced and that every class should have 2 tier 1 decks every single expansion cause then a lot of game would be a literal coin flip or the person that draws better just wins but giving a class all the amazing cards in one expansion to just make it unplayable in 6 months or so just for the sake of class rotation honestly just seems like the dumbest idea ever, like putting your fingers in the blender seems smarter at this point and probably requires more thought.
Fiery War Axe did nothing wrong. PATCHES did -_- RIP Control Warrior.
I blame patches too.
But more recently, it really shows that blizzard designs 2 expansions ahead. So priest (which was already one of the strongest classes) got a lot of goodies.
And warrior, which was in an 'ok' spot before the war axe nerf got no replacement.
Hoping for some tempo warrior support in the next expansion. I love the play style of pings and enrage buffs - but sadly it currently has no turn 2 play.
Control Warrior took an incredible blow with the nerf of FWA. One mana increase might not look like much at first glance (or to a non-CW player), but (at least in my opinion) it single handedly killed the archetype.
Why i say this? Cause having FWA one turn later is a big deal, there will be at least one more minion out that will be beating down on your face and the damage will stack up. Also as said before, aggro decks do go a bit taller rather than wider lately, so the good and efficient AOEs dont do as good of a job as they did before and u simply must put more tools to deter aggro into your deck, which makes it a lot weaker for any other match up.
And even if u build your deck mostly vs aggro, nowdays the aggro decks r way too efficient with their cards while keeping the fast pace they r known for. The card quality went up tons, so even if u manage to clear them, u didnt get that much of an advantage and/or tempo and they r back at it again.
TBH I did rank 15 to 5 with 85% W/R playing pirate warrior with the 3 mana axe. Pirate is not dead (and I found it really underestimated, that's a least T2, not T3/T4 deck)
But more recently, it really shows that blizzard designs 2 expansions ahead.
Thats rly no secret, thats how their process goes ;-) The problem is their reluctance of nerfs/changes and the scale of nerfs when they do happen.
I think it's worth recognizing that nerfing is a very tricky business, and often produces counter-intuitive results which were the opposite of what was intended. In the past, Huntertaker, Midrange Shaman and Pirate Warrior each benefited enormously from a series of nerfs targeting precisely Hunter, Midrange Shaman and Pirates. Prior to Huntertaker, the meta-game was dominated by Combo Hunter - Undertaker was designed and balanced for the pre-Naxx Combo Hunter meta-game, and it performed admirably in Deathrattle Priest and Zoo from August until October 2014, allowing those decks to compete against the best deck in the game. But when other decks still couldn't compete, Combo Hunter was nerfed, and many people predicted the death of the class. We know what happened. Undertaker wasn't tested for a meta-game in which Combo Hunter wasn't the dominant deck - it was designed as a tool to combat that deck. Without the depressive effect of Combo Hunter in the meta, the power level of Undertaker sky-rocketed, and Hunter continued dominating the game after its previous set of core OP cards were eliminated from competitive play.
Similar stories could be told about the other decks I mentioned, and plenty of others in IRL games (it isn't a feature unique to HS, and the "laziness and stupidity" of its devs) - as an "old guy," I remember the reign of Necro decks in MtG, and how each series of nerfs to the deck simply improved its performance, until the card itself was finally banned. There are plenty of other, more recent examples. For the most part, the HS community couldn't care less about any of this - but that hardly constitutes an argument in favour of nerfing for the sake of nerfing.
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Fan of the class and got multiple legends with the control variant, even grinding in tier 4 metas with it, but why exactly it is doing so bad these days(other than war axe nerf ~RIP)?
Sure, the classic and basic sets are very good, got cheap removal(execute and shield slam) and good aoe with rng(brawl), even we still had win axe, would the class do fine?
Mostly no. These removal does not provide enough tempo anymore with bonemares and corridor creepers, same to brawl, as boards go taller as oppose to wide. But if the old aggro slayer can't beat with consistency aggro, what do it do against midrange and control? Do I need to answer? Yes, it's still possible to grind in legend with N'zoth, mill, big, tempo variants, but the ammount of grinding and thinking time is way a turn off against tier 2 and 1 deck, which every other class got a foot on.
But what about other sets? Then we got the conclusion of the title question, simples, newer warrior cards are way TOO FAIR in comparison to what others got. With very little to no mechanics to abuse, and when they work, is mostly in specific matchups and got obliterate in the rest. Even aggro/ tempo.
Sure, we got a period of pirate warrior dominancy, but other than it being a braindead aggro deck which I despise, (also, important to note, I despise BRAINDEAD decks, like jade druid too, not exactly AGGRO decks), was mostly due to neutral cards and lack of tempo counter-play by other matchups in the time.
I know the game isn't the most complex and deep, but from the moment it went to """""e-sports""""", I though it's valid to discuss :)
A lack of good cards. The class has a few decent cards that play well in certain archetypes, but where the objectively powerful cards? What's Warrior's Vilespine Slayer? Or Ultimate Infestation? Its Primordial Glyph or Spikeridged Steed? It seems like other classes just have so many auto-include cards, many of which are great tempo plays. Warrior is just left with a few strong control cards in a meta where they're severely outclassed by several other control decks.
Mostly, it's because fiery war axe got nerfed and warrior doesn't really have any other good tools other than the usual removal (brawl, execute, and shield slam.) Even then, most of what warrior still has isn't high in power level compared to everything else. Lots of situational, deck restrictive cards while other classes get cards that are just good on their own.
Warriors aren't alone. Shamans can't do anything either. It's also worth mentioning that warriors got fair cards while Shamans got probably the worst set of cards a class has ever gotten in an expansion in KFT. The thing is all Blizzard doesn't just print interesting cards anymore, these days Blizzard prints objectively overpowered cards (if possible in higher rarities) to push classes. Just look at everything Priest has gotten since Gadgetzan. Everyone would have flipped a table if any other class had gotten that amount of insane cards. Same seems to affect Warlock now with cards like Kobold Librarian. We can expect to hear "Me take Book!" in every Warlock match until the rotation of 2018.
Ayy.
Currently playing a Nzoth deck, and warrior got plenty of tools to deal with aggro.
I've just reached rank 5, and sure it's not a T1 deck, but to be honest the only matchup which is an uphill battle is razzakus priest.. i should be able to reach legend with it.
Big priest is difficult but feasible.. depends if they have a really, really good hand.
Lock / rogue / paladin / satellite priest are fair matchups.
it's mostly luck of the draw - sleep with the fishes is still very potent tempo-wise, garrosh DK is great at fighting boards of 5/5 and execute is still a very powerful tempo tool with enough whitlwind effects.
Fiery Axe is the only card keeping warrior after so many expansions of crap cards, the nerf in your last relevant card kill the class.
Priest receive the most broken hero, warrior hero is only better than paladin and not for a large margin, priest received a dragon what destroy completely any early agression your opponent have and a 7 manas removal make any token deck cry for mama, warrior receive a mass removal with need to remove all your armor advantage, priest have a broken overstated dragon discover the best card from opponent deck, warrior have nothing.
The very last deck warrior have, the pirate, died without Axe.
Fiery Axe, Execute, Warsong...
Too many classic cards nerfed kill any class.
FWA was a heavy loss b/c they took the best weapon and made it the worst. They should have reworked it somehow so just pirates stop benefit from it. I can't blame Blizz for nerfing Warsong, though.
I see streamers (rarely meet players ) playing DMH warrior which is an amazing deck, but extremely hard to pilot correctly. No surprise it's not popular b/c it requires a lot of thinking, the games are really long and the deck is not that strong compared to the meta decks. I'd love if they push it a little bit in the next exp.
Tempo style warrior is just a strictly worse version of tempo rogue or hunter or warlock. It’s not a bad deck it’s just outclassed so there’s not much reason to play it. And late game warrior decks do have really powerful late game, but they can’t consistently survive to get to it.
God people have such short memories. Thank god we don’t have 5 competitive warrior decks anymore
Pirate warrior is going strong right now. Shaman is in the shitter though
Pirate warrior is still very strong. Any new tempo tools warrior gets will make Pirate warrior too strong
Fiery War Axe did nothing wrong. PATCHES did -_- RIP Control Warrior.
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Control Warrior took an incredible blow with the nerf of FWA. One mana increase might not look like much at first glance (or to a non-CW player), but (at least in my opinion) it single handedly killed the archetype.
Why i say this? Cause having FWA one turn later is a big deal, there will be at least one more minion out that will be beating down on your face and the damage will stack up. Also as said before, aggro decks do go a bit taller rather than wider lately, so the good and efficient AOEs dont do as good of a job as they did before and u simply must put more tools to deter aggro into your deck, which makes it a lot weaker for any other match up.
And even if u build your deck mostly vs aggro, nowdays the aggro decks r way too efficient with their cards while keeping the fast pace they r known for. The card quality went up tons, so even if u manage to clear them, u didnt get that much of an advantage and/or tempo and they r back at it again.
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TBH I did rank 15 to 5 with 85% W/R playing pirate warrior with the 3 mana axe. Pirate is not dead (and I found it really underestimated, that's a least T2, not T3/T4 deck)
Warrior is bad because most hearthstone players are too stoopid to read anything other than the mana crystal at the top of each card
And because Patches is the favorite card of one dev. Can't just nerf him
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest