I was constructed player before, but last few seasons I stop at rank 5 and play wierd decks in casual. Ladder bores me, grind to lagend is not worth to do again. Last week I started playing arena more and I know what are good cards and how to play in arena, but I cant get to 12 wins. I usualy lose with max 9-10 wins. I was wondering can someone very experienced in arena, tell me how they get 12 wins runs?
12 win runs is both a mixture of good fortune, skill play, and quality draft picks.
Can't really say anything more about it without writing an entire essay on it.
I would say though 12 win decks tend to be very good tempo decks. Rogue is the best to consistently draft tempo-oriented cards with cards like SI7, Backstab, Defias, Eviserate, Shado-pan, etc. In Arena you generally don't want to be playing reactively since board clears are rare. This means whoever seizes board control ASAP typically wins the game.
I'd say just generally looking at your decks, you need more 2-mana drops that aren't reactive. As in, you need cards you can play on turn 2 by itself. Seal of Light for example, is a reactive card (and a poor one at that), so your paladin only have 5 2-mana cards that can be played on turn 2. If you miss that turn by hero power, you'd be put behind on board and it will snowball.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player. Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
12 win runs is both a mixture of good fortune, skill play, and quality draft picks.
Can't really say anything more about it without writing an entire essay on it.
I would say though 12 win decks tend to be very good tempo decks. Rogue is the best to consistently draft tempo-oriented cards with cards like SI7, Backstab, Defias, Eviserate, Shado-pan, etc. In Arena you generally don't want to be playing reactively since board clears are rare. This means whoever seizes board control ASAP typically wins the game.
I'd say just generally looking at your decks, you need more 2-mana drops that aren't reactive. As in, you need cards you can play on turn 2 by itself. Seal of Light for example, is a reactive card (and a poor one at that), so your paladin only have 5 2-mana cards that can be played on turn 2. If you miss that turn by hero power, you'd be put behind on board and it will snowball.
Ok, so more 2 drops ,make sense. As for bad cards in my decks like Seal of Light, sometimes you just get to pick from 3 really bad cards and you pick one that suck less. :)
I am starting to realise how tempo is important in arena, for example if you have 1 drop like Zombie Chow and your opponent do not. You can stay behind whole game if your 2 drops are less good and impactful then opponets.
I agree. Tempo is the most important factor to understand on a turn by turn basis which will compute into winning more games. I think you are on the right track though. If you regularly get 7-9 wins, keep playing. It's just a matter of time before you get the coveted 12 win deck.
Can't give you too much advice without watching you, but in general I would suggest playing slower, considering all of your lines of play, planning ahead, thinking about what your opponent does/doesn't have, etc. Playing towards your deck's win condition is also important. I agree with the above that tempo-oriented styles are fairly successful at the moment but that doesn't mean you should force yourself/your deck to play that way if that's not how your deck is built - every type of deck has potential to go 12.
That said, playing solidly and drafting well is sometimes just not enough. There are times where variants stop you short, or you just weren't offered strong enough cards. The important thing is keep playing well and try to maximize your odds as best as you can. It takes time, it's hard, you'll get it eventually ^_^.
As an aside, even though the draft is less important than you might think, your drafts still seem a little weak - card quality seems a tad low, some out of place cards, curve's a bit weak - but it's tough to say if that's variants or not. Either way I'd suggest watching some good arena players draft and see how your draft would differ from theirs
As an aside, even though the draft is less important than you might think, your drafts still seem a little weak - card quality seems a tad low, some out of place cards, curve's a bit weak - but it's tough to say if that's variants or not. Either way I'd suggest watching some good arena players draft and see how your draft would differ from theirs
Yesterday, I got legendary pick: Majordomo Executus, Tinkmaster Overspark and Lorewalker Cho, I picked tinkmaster, was that mistake? thats just one exampe, but sometimes all 3 cards feel kind of meh, even on that legendary pick
I have no time to watch streams because of my university but I started watching Trumps youtube videos latley(because I heard he is good in arena), is he good enough?
My suggestion is to focus on getting 7 wins because that way you get your gold back,a pack for free and a very small plus(10-20 gold,20 dust). 12 wins is very hard to achieve because you don't need only skill but you need luck for draft(i mean if you get to pick from Alarm-o-Bot, Angry Chicken and Target Dummy it's purely bad luck and it's not your fault)and also some luck to not face only insane decks while your deck is not the best.
Overspark was probably the right pick. However, I could see a small argument for Majordomo at least for a Warrior draft.
12 wins are rare, HA wiki has it listed at 0.65% of all runs result in 12 wins.
That works out to 1 in ~150 people that start a run will achieve 12 wins.
Yes, it takes lots of luck, there is no denying this. From a good draft to good MUs and good RNG. But there is a reason top arena players are constantly posting infinite win rates and achieve 12-win runs 10-15% of the time. There is a huge element of skill involved and you really can't deny that either.
Poison seeds is okay if you have a lot of cheap and weak minions. You end up destroying their tempo minions... so depending on the draft it could be okay.... like the 1 cost spell for 2 guys, etc. but really situational. Mark of nature is probably best. Especially if you have savage roar or something like that too. A few taunts and savage roar can win you many games as a druid.
Mark is more consistent and probably the correct pick this early in the draft.
Poison Seeds is more of a removal spell then a buff your own minion spell. Situational removal at best, situational buff at best.
EX. Single threat from your opponent - poison seeds turns it into a 2/2. Basically a crappier Polymorph which we all know is top tier removal for Mage.
As an aside, even though the draft is less important than you might think, your drafts still seem a little weak - card quality seems a tad low, some out of place cards, curve's a bit weak - but it's tough to say if that's variants or not. Either way I'd suggest watching some good arena players draft and see how your draft would differ from theirs
Yesterday, I got legendary pick: Majordomo Executus, Tinkmaster Overspark and Lorewalker Cho, I picked tinkmaster, was that mistake? thats just one exampe, but sometimes all 3 cards feel kind of meh, even on that legendary pick
I have no time to watch streams because of my university but I started watching Trumps youtube videos latley(because I heard he is good in arena), is he good enough?
He's good, but his style/card evaluations/plays are a little outdated tbh. If you're looking for good arena vods I would suggest
Those are 4 of the best and most well-known arena players, and they often post vods on youtube. They are all very good and have very different styles of play, so there's something to learn from each of them.
And as others have mentioned, yeah I think Tinkmaster was most likely the correct choice. I imagine your past the point where you know what cards are good and bad, but as Xandrulff suggested http://ggoatgaming.com/tierlist/ is the best "tier list" out there if you're not sure. I think at your skill level it's more about picking the right card for your deck whether than picking the best cards, in which case the tier list is much less useful, but it is still helpful for early picks or comparative ratings.
12 wins in arena is one of both fortune in how you draw, the cards you draft, and skill.
Ive had arena runs when I go winless because of things like running into a Mage with 4 Flamestrike, and decks that are constructed worthy while my deck building ended up very low quality or drawing high mana costs when only 1/4 of my deck was high mana...while also having arena runs where I average 10 to 11 wins and the occasional 12 because my draw and deck were all high quality. All that matters is tempo and what cards are good in their own.
The key to drafting in arena is to really think about how your games will play out and how each card will help you get the wins. If you are just basing picks on tier lists, then you are boned, it's why I highly recommend not following tier lists, except for an occasional pick where you are just looking for a second opinion, but the base thing you need to be thinking is, how does this help me win, all because a card is "good" doesn't mean it fits your deck. Cards need to compliment each other, and finding win conditions wherever they lie, could be something like a watcher with a few silences, or nerubian eggs with activators, or something more straight forward.
As for the games, it's just a constant consideration of what might be in their deck, and what's in yours. Smart trades, etc. Different classes play differently so I can't really get into a tutorial. I think the only class you can play badly with and still win is Paladin. That used to be Mage but it's no guarantee you get the spells you need anymore. Low drops are HUGE, druid can get away without them, but in general missing both your first and second turn is horrible. Miss the first three? Done.
In general though, I think you'll face a grand total of 2-3 hard matchups in a 12 win run, that are winnable, and these are games that you have to make zero mistakes in, you have to play perfectly.
I was constructed player before, but last few seasons I stop at rank 5 and play wierd decks in casual. Ladder bores me, grind to lagend is not worth to do again. Last week I started playing arena more and I know what are good cards and how to play in arena, but I cant get to 12 wins. I usualy lose with max 9-10 wins. I was wondering can someone very experienced in arena, tell me how they get 12 wins runs?
Here are some of my runs this week
Grommash Hellscream
I can wait no longer
12 win runs is both a mixture of good fortune, skill play, and quality draft picks.
Can't really say anything more about it without writing an entire essay on it.
I would say though 12 win decks tend to be very good tempo decks. Rogue is the best to consistently draft tempo-oriented cards with cards like SI7, Backstab, Defias, Eviserate, Shado-pan, etc. In Arena you generally don't want to be playing reactively since board clears are rare. This means whoever seizes board control ASAP typically wins the game.
I'd say just generally looking at your decks, you need more 2-mana drops that aren't reactive. As in, you need cards you can play on turn 2 by itself. Seal of Light for example, is a reactive card (and a poor one at that), so your paladin only have 5 2-mana cards that can be played on turn 2. If you miss that turn by hero power, you'd be put behind on board and it will snowball.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
Grommash Hellscream
I can wait no longer
I agree. Tempo is the most important factor to understand on a turn by turn basis which will compute into winning more games. I think you are on the right track though. If you regularly get 7-9 wins, keep playing. It's just a matter of time before you get the coveted 12 win deck.
12 win runs are incredibly rare, even to high level players.
Can't give you too much advice without watching you, but in general I would suggest playing slower, considering all of your lines of play, planning ahead, thinking about what your opponent does/doesn't have, etc. Playing towards your deck's win condition is also important. I agree with the above that tempo-oriented styles are fairly successful at the moment but that doesn't mean you should force yourself/your deck to play that way if that's not how your deck is built - every type of deck has potential to go 12.
That said, playing solidly and drafting well is sometimes just not enough. There are times where variants stop you short, or you just weren't offered strong enough cards. The important thing is keep playing well and try to maximize your odds as best as you can. It takes time, it's hard, you'll get it eventually ^_^.
As an aside, even though the draft is less important than you might think, your drafts still seem a little weak - card quality seems a tad low, some out of place cards, curve's a bit weak - but it's tough to say if that's variants or not. Either way I'd suggest watching some good arena players draft and see how your draft would differ from theirs
Grommash Hellscream
I can wait no longer
My suggestion is to focus on getting 7 wins because that way you get your gold back,a pack for free and a very small plus(10-20 gold,20 dust). 12 wins is very hard to achieve because you don't need only skill but you need luck for draft(i mean if you get to pick from Alarm-o-Bot, Angry Chicken and Target Dummy it's purely bad luck and it's not your fault)and also some luck to not face only insane decks while your deck is not the best.
Overspark was probably the right pick. However, I could see a small argument for Majordomo at least for a Warrior draft.
12 wins are rare, HA wiki has it listed at 0.65% of all runs result in 12 wins.
That works out to 1 in ~150 people that start a run will achieve 12 wins.
Yes, it takes lots of luck, there is no denying this. From a good draft to good MUs and good RNG. But there is a reason top arena players are constantly posting infinite win rates and achieve 12-win runs 10-15% of the time. There is a huge element of skill involved and you really can't deny that either.
Twitch Arena Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/boozor / Youtube Chanel: https://www.youtube.com/c/boozortv
#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
What is the best pick in this case? I am thinking Mark of Nature. Is Poison Seeds good in arena?
Grommash Hellscream
I can wait no longer
Poison seeds is okay if you have a lot of cheap and weak minions. You end up destroying their tempo minions... so depending on the draft it could be okay.... like the 1 cost spell for 2 guys, etc. but really situational. Mark of nature is probably best. Especially if you have savage roar or something like that too. A few taunts and savage roar can win you many games as a druid.
Mark is more consistent and probably the correct pick this early in the draft.
Poison Seeds is more of a removal spell then a buff your own minion spell. Situational removal at best, situational buff at best.
EX. Single threat from your opponent - poison seeds turns it into a 2/2. Basically a crappier Polymorph which we all know is top tier removal for Mage.
Twitch Arena Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/boozor / Youtube Chanel: https://www.youtube.com/c/boozortv
#1 Arena Leader Board Player in North America - August 2018 and April 2020
#2 NA Nov 18, #2 Asia July 19, #2 NA Feb 20, #2 NA June 20
He's good, but his style/card evaluations/plays are a little outdated tbh. If you're looking for good arena vods I would suggest
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCddX-H9xUwQH6jOOHuL2vYw
https://www.youtube.com/user/adwcta
https://www.youtube.com/user/Shadybunnylive
Those are 4 of the best and most well-known arena players, and they often post vods on youtube. They are all very good and have very different styles of play, so there's something to learn from each of them.
And as others have mentioned, yeah I think Tinkmaster was most likely the correct choice. I imagine your past the point where you know what cards are good and bad, but as Xandrulff suggested http://ggoatgaming.com/tierlist/ is the best "tier list" out there if you're not sure. I think at your skill level it's more about picking the right card for your deck whether than picking the best cards, in which case the tier list is much less useful, but it is still helpful for early picks or comparative ratings.
12 wins in arena is one of both fortune in how you draw, the cards you draft, and skill.
Ive had arena runs when I go winless because of things like running into a Mage with 4 Flamestrike, and decks that are constructed worthy while my deck building ended up very low quality or drawing high mana costs when only 1/4 of my deck was high mana...while also having arena runs where I average 10 to 11 wins and the occasional 12 because my draw and deck were all high quality. All that matters is tempo and what cards are good in their own.
The key to drafting in arena is to really think about how your games will play out and how each card will help you get the wins. If you are just basing picks on tier lists, then you are boned, it's why I highly recommend not following tier lists, except for an occasional pick where you are just looking for a second opinion, but the base thing you need to be thinking is, how does this help me win, all because a card is "good" doesn't mean it fits your deck. Cards need to compliment each other, and finding win conditions wherever they lie, could be something like a watcher with a few silences, or nerubian eggs with activators, or something more straight forward.
As for the games, it's just a constant consideration of what might be in their deck, and what's in yours. Smart trades, etc. Different classes play differently so I can't really get into a tutorial. I think the only class you can play badly with and still win is Paladin. That used to be Mage but it's no guarantee you get the spells you need anymore. Low drops are HUGE, druid can get away without them, but in general missing both your first and second turn is horrible. Miss the first three? Done.
In general though, I think you'll face a grand total of 2-3 hard matchups in a 12 win run, that are winnable, and these are games that you have to make zero mistakes in, you have to play perfectly.
Thank you all!
Adwcta list was really helpfull in wierd draft situations
And, of course, I did it. (got a little lucky with this insane paladin draft)
Grommash Hellscream
I can wait no longer
4 keepers, tirion, 2 consecrate, muster, aldor, argent protectors, just a littttttle lucky.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
keeper is stupid. I had 3 once, it was beyond stupid. 4 is ludicrously stupid.
congrats.