This is purely theory craft, but mana wraith counters (almost) all Mecha'Thun decks when timed correctly. Druid, Priest, and Warlock Mecha'thun all need 10+ mana to get their combo off. Togwaggle Druid needs to play dreampetal florist to get the azalina toggwaggke turn, and delaying that can help tempo them down. Zoo plays a lot of small minions so it can slow them down. Control doesn't usually run many minions, so it seems like a good fit. Thoughts?
what's preventing you from trying it then.. on my opinion currently the only viable control class is warlock due to demonic project which DECIMATES combo totally destroys them and makes them concede on the spot.
Because it does not counter the aforementioned decks. It simply stalls their combo and as a control deck is not like you will be able to kill them on your next turn anyway.
Because it does not counter the aforementioned decks. It simply stalls their combo and as a control deck is not like you will be able to kill them on your next turn anyway.
For some of those decks that is true. However, the wraith does actually counter Mecha'Thun Priest completely. You always know how close they are to their combo due to their hand size so all you do is wait til they have 5 cards then play the wraith and win. They can't play anything to kill it without throwing their win condition away.
It doesn't do enough. While I'm a fan of cards that bait out cards and waste resources, it's still taking up space in your deck, it's usually a bad top deck, and whenever you could be playing this, something like Mossy Horror or Mind Control Tech is usually better. The card's not bad, it was just better during another time, and only some decks can actually play it in any given meta. As far as I'm concerned, play what you want. If your deck is nothing but cards meant to counter every deck in existence, expect to lose more than you're willing to guess.
Delaying an OTK for one turn is no big deal, unless you are Aggro, with lethal at hand.
So in a real context that is no tech, actually.
It could work in some Big Spell Mage, or highly reactive decks, with many spells, but then again the effect is minimal and you can simply use better synergic cards.
In general, it is the age old problem of techs ranging between too generalistic (no tech) to too specific (useless out of niche). And even if you can get something that stands in the middle of the spectrum, it still depends a lot on the meta.
Mecha'thun decks are a meme, it isn't really worth teching against, imo.
It would only slow a druid down one or two turns at most, Not bad but you can get more value out of other things, and it'll be a dead card a lot of the time. It's not worth having a dead card in your hand for 7 turns just to stall your opponent for one turn.
Zoo will give 0 shits about it, every minion in the deck can kill it and they play minions nearly every turn, so unless you hide it behind an early taunt you won't do anything with it. Even that would be hard because you'd be relying on your taunt to live a whole turn (which would mean you're probably in a position you don't need the wraith) or you'd have to play a +1 cost taunt after playing it, which would be a sizable tempo loss if they just hit it with the 4 dmg spell.
It doesn't destroy the combo in most situations though, it just delays it. The classes that would want to run this (control warrior, BS Mage) aren't usually going to be able to take advantage of that extra turn.
Delaying an OTK for one turn is no big deal, unless you are Aggro, with lethal at hand.
So in a real context that is no tech, actually.
It could work in some Big Spell Mage, or highly reactive decks, with many spells, but then again the effect is minimal and you can simply use better synergic cards.
In general, it is the age old problem of techs ranging between too generalistic (no tech) to too specific (useless out of niche). And even if you can get something that stands in the middle of the spectrum, it still depends a lot on the meta.
Against Mecha'Thun priest it doesn't just delay losing one turn, but it denies the opponent's win completely.
Against Mecha'Thun druid it also delays losing by more than one turn if they have to Naturalize the wraith. They then have to rely on killing a naked Mecha'Thun while dodging Hex, Polymorph, neutral silence tech, Rexxar Build-a-Beast silence minions, Psychic Scream, Void Lord (That's at least 4 more turns' worth of stall).
Granted it doesn't beat Maly Druid, but the tech is considerable against the above two decks.
Cause no one is really playing Mecha'thun and you togg druid can still play their combo even with the wraith on board and they can just kil it immediatly. The problem with mecha'thun is that druid needs to run too many bad cards for it to be viable, warlock is just controlock with a few other cards so they can definitely stall and fatigue you down for sure and they also can just kill the wraith super easily and go for the combo de following turn. Finally priest depends entirely on Hemet to be able to win and even then you can still struggle a bit so teching for a) an archetype that sees no play and b) a deck that can still beat your tech without even caring really feels like the worst possible tech card tbh.
But I've played like 100 matches with this card and meet mecta'thun priest only twice (and at 2nd encounter mecha'thun priest literally lost to his own deck without my help at all). So necessarity of this card is highly questionable. It can have some use in other maches too, it can delay some midrange decks a bit if dropped at right time and under taunt protection. On the other hand, there are better tools warrior can put in.
i remember that back when Call to Arms was at 4 mana, my friend used it alongside Mana Wraith and it was one of the most annoying things ever, it did shut down a lot of decks tbh or forced them to spend super valuable removal on the wraiths.
Zoo plays a lot of small minions so it can slow them down
Eh... what? That is only if you already cleared the board and they can't kill him from hand.
IF they have no way of killing the 2-2 with minions nor from hand, versus certain deck it could possibly work, but running him would lose you a lot more than you will win. The card isn't a hardcounter to anything, the effect isn't a battlecry...
Okay then, here is the question. Why are there no net decks running Mana Wraith?
Here is the answer op. It doesn't shut anything down but the occasional Mecha'thun deck, and even then you have to play it at exactly the right time or it is useless. Sometimes it's better to accept bad match ups rather than actively make your deck worse. Also, the only deck that would even be interested in Mana Wraith is Odd Warrior, you can do the math on that one if you think hard enough. Control warlock already has combo disruption and control priest is bursty enough to kill decks like Mech'thun.
Yeah, I prefer Demonic Project. Unlike Mana Wraith this can at least do well against other combo decks as well.
[edit] I know that in standard we don't have any neutral combo disruption cards, but I don't like how restricted the usefulness of the aforementioned minion is. With this you can only "counter" Mecha'thun strategies and nothing else. Other combo decks will just use single-target removal and will be delayed by a whole turn max. But countered - I don't think so. If the control player can't inflict enough damage into the combo player's face, the only thing the player is delaying is its own demise.
This is purely theory craft, but mana wraith counters (almost) all Mecha'Thun decks when timed correctly. Druid, Priest, and Warlock Mecha'thun all need 10+ mana to get their combo off. Togwaggle Druid needs to play dreampetal florist to get the azalina toggwaggke turn, and delaying that can help tempo them down. Zoo plays a lot of small minions so it can slow them down. Control doesn't usually run many minions, so it seems like a good fit. Thoughts?
Haha it would be pretty cool to time him correctly. If I face a shit ton of Mecha Thun decks I'll definately give it a try.
Mana Wraith vs 5 dinos and some mechanized dragons. Hmm.... we should defobplay this understatted card.
did you try it? "it's just a theory"..
what's preventing you from trying it then.. on my opinion currently the only viable control class is warlock due to demonic project which DECIMATES combo totally destroys them and makes them concede on the spot.
Because it does not counter the aforementioned decks. It simply stalls their combo and as a control deck is not like you will be able to kill them on your next turn anyway.
For some of those decks that is true. However, the wraith does actually counter Mecha'Thun Priest completely. You always know how close they are to their combo due to their hand size so all you do is wait til they have 5 cards then play the wraith and win. They can't play anything to kill it without throwing their win condition away.
It doesn't do enough. While I'm a fan of cards that bait out cards and waste resources, it's still taking up space in your deck, it's usually a bad top deck, and whenever you could be playing this, something like Mossy Horror or Mind Control Tech is usually better. The card's not bad, it was just better during another time, and only some decks can actually play it in any given meta. As far as I'm concerned, play what you want. If your deck is nothing but cards meant to counter every deck in existence, expect to lose more than you're willing to guess.
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It’s an interesting tech choice, but I’m enjoying Demonic project for that more
Not sure if control mage is good enough in this combo scene without something like this as well
Delaying an OTK for one turn is no big deal, unless you are Aggro, with lethal at hand.
So in a real context that is no tech, actually.
It could work in some Big Spell Mage, or highly reactive decks, with many spells, but then again the effect is minimal and you can simply use better synergic cards.
In general, it is the age old problem of techs ranging between too generalistic (no tech) to too specific (useless out of niche). And even if you can get something that stands in the middle of the spectrum, it still depends a lot on the meta.
The only exceptions so far are Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker.
Mecha'thun decks are a meme, it isn't really worth teching against, imo.
It would only slow a druid down one or two turns at most, Not bad but you can get more value out of other things, and it'll be a dead card a lot of the time. It's not worth having a dead card in your hand for 7 turns just to stall your opponent for one turn.
Zoo will give 0 shits about it, every minion in the deck can kill it and they play minions nearly every turn, so unless you hide it behind an early taunt you won't do anything with it. Even that would be hard because you'd be relying on your taunt to live a whole turn (which would mean you're probably in a position you don't need the wraith) or you'd have to play a +1 cost taunt after playing it, which would be a sizable tempo loss if they just hit it with the 4 dmg spell.
It doesn't destroy the combo in most situations though, it just delays it. The classes that would want to run this (control warrior, BS Mage) aren't usually going to be able to take advantage of that extra turn.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Against Mecha'Thun priest it doesn't just delay losing one turn, but it denies the opponent's win completely.
Against Mecha'Thun druid it also delays losing by more than one turn if they have to Naturalize the wraith. They then have to rely on killing a naked Mecha'Thun while dodging Hex, Polymorph, neutral silence tech, Rexxar Build-a-Beast silence minions, Psychic Scream, Void Lord (That's at least 4 more turns' worth of stall).
Granted it doesn't beat Maly Druid, but the tech is considerable against the above two decks.
Those decks are like 10% of your matches while you are weaker vs. the other 90%
Cause no one is really playing Mecha'thun and you togg druid can still play their combo even with the wraith on board and they can just kil it immediatly. The problem with mecha'thun is that druid needs to run too many bad cards for it to be viable, warlock is just controlock with a few other cards so they can definitely stall and fatigue you down for sure and they also can just kill the wraith super easily and go for the combo de following turn. Finally priest depends entirely on Hemet to be able to win and even then you can still struggle a bit so teching for a) an archetype that sees no play and b) a deck that can still beat your tech without even caring really feels like the worst possible tech card tbh.
I've teched this card into my control warrior and can confirm this card is a perfect counter against mecha'thun priest:
https://hsreplay.net/replay/aLgB2NnBRmyuheEFQ4LRy8
But I've played like 100 matches with this card and meet mecta'thun priest only twice (and at 2nd encounter mecha'thun priest literally lost to his own deck without my help at all). So necessarity of this card is highly questionable. It can have some use in other maches too, it can delay some midrange decks a bit if dropped at right time and under taunt protection. On the other hand, there are better tools warrior can put in.
Yeah, let’s start teching Mana Wraith for Mecha’Thun, and screw their exodia combo in that 1 game out of 1000 you’re going to play on ladder.
Release the Kraken!
i remember that back when Call to Arms was at 4 mana, my friend used it alongside Mana Wraith and it was one of the most annoying things ever, it did shut down a lot of decks tbh or forced them to spend super valuable removal on the wraiths.
Eh... what? That is only if you already cleared the board and they can't kill him from hand.
IF they have no way of killing the 2-2 with minions nor from hand, versus certain deck it could possibly work, but running him would lose you a lot more than you will win. The card isn't a hardcounter to anything, the effect isn't a battlecry...
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Okay then, here is the question. Why are there no net decks running Mana Wraith?
Here is the answer op. It doesn't shut anything down but the occasional Mecha'thun deck, and even then you have to play it at exactly the right time or it is useless. Sometimes it's better to accept bad match ups rather than actively make your deck worse. Also, the only deck that would even be interested in Mana Wraith is Odd Warrior, you can do the math on that one if you think hard enough. Control warlock already has combo disruption and control priest is bursty enough to kill decks like Mech'thun.
Yeah, I prefer Demonic Project. Unlike Mana Wraith this can at least do well against other combo decks as well.
[edit] I know that in standard we don't have any neutral combo disruption cards, but I don't like how restricted the usefulness of the aforementioned minion is. With this you can only "counter" Mecha'thun strategies and nothing else. Other combo decks will just use single-target removal and will be delayed by a whole turn max. But countered - I don't think so. If the control player can't inflict enough damage into the combo player's face, the only thing the player is delaying is its own demise.