I'm seeing people on both sides of this card; and generally; neither side is right. People saying it's useless and people saying it beats Jade outright.
Skulking Geist is not a card you just splash into a deck and expect to autowin against Jade Druid. However; it can change specific matchups.
This means even with Skulking Geist; a Jade Druid will cap out at 8/8 or 9/9. Put simply; if your deck cannot handle the 6/6 7/7 8/8 9/9 phase of Jade anyway; there is no point teching in Skulking Geist against it.
Likewise; if your wincondition against Jade Druid is to win before the big jades come down; Skulking Geist also does not help you.
What Skulking Geist does help is the heavy control decks. Those that can deal with Jades up to 8/8 or 9/9; and push the Jade Druid to 10/10 or above to win. Decks like Control Paladin; Control Warrior and Control Priest. These are the decks where Skulking Geist can swing the Jade Druid matchup; because you have the resources to deal with the now-finite Jades.
tl;dr: Skulking Geist should only be teched against Jade Druid if your deck can already handle Jades up to 8/8 or 9/9. In that case; it changes a losing matchup into a winning one.
The card exist for stop the infinite value of the deck. Not for win the match. Play it on turn 6 or early is a most cause that ensures you that you will not dealt with 8/8 or bigger golems. Jade druid dont run jade spirit in competitive decks (i do for example cause budget) cause there isnt needed of that card when you can go infinite with jade idol and turn 4 never exist for Druids as a 4 mana turn (or is waste into swipe). So yeah the card is good for what is made. Also is a good card agains some combo decks, agro druid runs mark of the lotus for example as a key buff card for the mana tokens.
Tbh I dont see how a 6mana card answers the cancerous problem of Druid players, let alone the other talentless Jade cards that Shaman and Druid completely abuse. Being able to cast 4 damage and then summon a 6/6 Jade is broken as fck, i refuse flat out to be associated with the dipshits that use the cards just to climb the ladder.
I welcome any aggro hunters or even PirateWarrior matches, the sole card that even gives me any hope of clinging to wins at the moment is the dreaded 'Ice block' but even that is just pointless against Jades, especially as Shaman can just mindless evolve them over and over too.
The whole idea of Jade needs to be nerfed, reaching 10/10+ in matchups is like an achievement most games, you know your only gonna be stomped but the fact they just keep +1 their hax minions is dumb as hell.
Tbh I dont see how a 6mana card answers the cancerous problem of Druid players, let alone the other talentless Jade cards that Shaman and Druid completely abuse. Being able to cast 4 damage and then summon a 6/6 Jade is broken as fck, i refuse flat out to be associated with the dipshits that use the cards just to climb the ladder.
I welcome any aggro hunters or even PirateWarrior matches, the sole card that even gives me any hope of clinging to wins at the moment is the dreaded 'Ice block' but even that is just pointless against Jades, especially as Shaman can just mindless evolve them over and over too.
The whole idea of Jade needs to be nerfed, reaching 10/10+ in matchups is like an achievement most games, you know your only gonna be stomped but the fact they just keep +1 their hax minions is dumb as hell.
Then what about jade rogue? How do you feel fighting against one?
I welcome any aggro hunters or even PirateWarrior matches,
Thats a new one, last time i checked it was those aggro decks that were the cancerous ones. Guess i haven't been reading the forum enough lately as i didn't know they weren't anymore.
But i guess the ice block remark is a tell on your hate.
I like the Geist in my Control Paladin. It is still okay to remove Evolve, Mortal Coil, Soulfire, Hallucination, Cold Blood, Inner Fire, Power Word: Shield, and so on.
So far the downside of a weak card against Aggro didn't feel too terrible.
Skulking Geist is garbage. I've played a bunch of games as Jade Druid and I still have won most of the games that the Geist has been played against me. It's even funnier when I switch to control priest and someone plays the Geist against me. Useless.
So, are you people who tech in a Geist playing one copy? And do you also remove 1-drops from your deck?
Geist is fine. It loses only 2 stats for a nice ability which makes some fights much easier. Like evolve shaman without evolve, buff priest without inner fire or jade druid without jade idol. I'm playing DK elemental mage so I can easily outvalue all these decks.
im playing control priest, won already 3 matchup agaisnt jade druid when i draw it early and played as soon as possible, they died from fatigue. the only one that i lost was when he ramp too fast and became very agresive, he didnt even used the jade idol, i died pefore. very good card
I like the Geist in my Control Paladin. It is still okay to remove Evolve, Mortal Coil, Soulfire, Hallucination, Cold Blood, Inner Fire, Power Word: Shield, and so on.
So far the downside of a weak card against Aggro didn't feel too terrible.
Yes, this. Preventing Jade's from going infinite + these other situations in my control pally deck has made the tech card worth it for sure. The standard control pally deck can out value a non-infinite jade pretty easily.
tl;dr: Skulking Geist should only be teched against Jade Druid if your deck can already handle Jades up to 8/8 or 9/9. In that case; it changes a losing matchup into a winning one.
Indeed, there are several decks that lose to jade druid without jade ever getting 10/10's.
Aggro will lose because they run out of steam long before that. They have no removal for those 10/10's, but thats because that removal won't matter. In the same way this Geist won't matter either as they will have lost before that already.
Same with mages who depend on burn to win the game. They don't lose because of the 10/10's but because of the shield generation of a druid unless the druid fails to destroy the minions. So for them this card doesn't matter either.
But as druid seemed to be winning the control matchups, they will benefit from this card. However, will there be enough jade druids to make this card worth it? I doubt there will be. Before the new expansion jade druid was the most used deck with around 10% play. So you only run into them 1 out of 10 games.
Does that make an otherwise useless card worth putting in your deck? I doubt it.
Guess it will see some play in tournaments where the odds of running into a jade druid are increased. But even there the opposing druid could still be one of 3 types.
Skulking Geist is garbage. I've played a bunch of games as Jade Druid and I still have won most of the games that the Geist has been played against me. It's even funnier when I switch to control priest and someone plays the Geist against me. Useless.
So, are you people who tech in a Geist playing one copy? And do you also remove 1-drops from your deck?
Well, which 1-drops in Paladin? :)
After playing Geist there aren't enough Jades to deal with my Equalities anymore, that's how my games worked out.
At very least Auctioneer doesn't play like in miracle rogue once you destroy idols. And I guess the card also destroys some other cards likeEvolve, Earthen Scales, paladin secrets (might matter more in wild), quests (if for some reason people didn't play one on turn one like quest mage sometimes doesn't), Shield Slam and couple of Rogue and Priest cards.
The question is if Jade druid is a problem at all. Jade wasn't oppressive in MSG, it wasn't oppressive in Un'Goro, and it's too early to make a call in regards to KFT... Though if druid is oppressive now it's not because of the jade mechanic, but rather cards like spreading plague and ultimate infestation. Skulking Geist isn't supposed to shut down Jade druid, it's supposed to give control/fatigue decks an option to rival Jades in the late game.
You're right about MSG, but the whole meta then was a little fucky, being mostly like, two decks, and then some reno, and a littttttle bit of priest thrown in. Jade druid might not have done much to fuck up that meta just because it was already so bad. I think you could say easily say jade druid was oppressive in Un'Goro though, it might not have had the highest win rate (although I'd hope you're not one of those that misunderstands win rate as the be all and end all of a conversation about how healthy a deck is, quest rogue didn't have that great a win rate either before it was nerffed) but it was still an extremely commonly played deck, and it did push control decks to be much worse in the meta with their extremely terrible match up.
IDK what people say positive about Skulking Geist, after playing 30 matches against Jade Druid the card has absolutely no effect that goes to your advantage. Jade Druid is stronger than ever in this meta and easily the strongest deck in the meta thanks to people whining about aggro decks being OP.
You all wanted Blizz to deal with aGGRO decks and they have. If you don't already in another week or so you'll wish hyper aggro decks were back in control. Jade Druid is out of control!
Geist should be rather have been made into a cheaper card with lesser stats and the same effect if this is the way they wanted to handle it. In all honesty though Jade Idol should never have existed in the first place. I have no idea why they're so scared to nerf a card that is very obviously a problem and people could see from the minute it was released that it was going to be an issue.
On the plus side, I'm something like 15-1 vs Jade Druid with midrange paladin and I'm enjoying destroying that stupid deck and the muppets that choose to play it. And it simultaneously destroys pirates...the other brainless deck.
Jade druid dont run jade spirit in competitive decks (i do for example cause budget) cause there isnt needed of that card when you can go infinite with jade idol
Of course they do. Especially if Geists start appearing everywhere, getting the "jade train" one click up ASAP without relying on Idols might be crucial. It's true that the card spot in that mana range is flexible (and there have been quite a few different versions of Jade Druid in KFT so far), but if JD's win rates will be hurt by the Geist - which as discussed here it looks very inconsistent - then they will give Idols up and turn into different intermediate cards. As a matter of fact, I have seen various hybrids with just a few of the traditional JD cards, without relying on the old strategies.
In my experience, Geist has won me every game against Jade Druid so far. A lot of people are playing extremely greedy decks with 2 copies of Ultimate Infestation, and without infinite Idols, they just fatigue themselves to death.
However, what OP said is correct... many aggro and midrange decks can't compete with 9/9 jades anyway, so it's in their best interest to just play their strategy, and hope that they can smorc down the druid before the jades get too huge.
But the control matchup, which used to be heavily one sided, has now become completely manageable. Also, the geist is not completely irrelevant against many other decks... and the 4/6 statline isn't absolutely terrible, and in grindy control matchups, we can afford the occasional under-statted card.
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I'm seeing people on both sides of this card; and generally; neither side is right. People saying it's useless and people saying it beats Jade outright.
Skulking Geist is not a card you just splash into a deck and expect to autowin against Jade Druid. However; it can change specific matchups.
Why is this?
Jade Blossom; Jade Behemoth; Jade Spirit and Aya Blackpaw will still exist after Skulking Geist. In addition; it is not unreasonable to assume a Jade Druid will play one copy of Jade Idol before you kill the Idols.
This means even with Skulking Geist; a Jade Druid will cap out at 8/8 or 9/9. Put simply; if your deck cannot handle the 6/6 7/7 8/8 9/9 phase of Jade anyway; there is no point teching in Skulking Geist against it.
Likewise; if your wincondition against Jade Druid is to win before the big jades come down; Skulking Geist also does not help you.
What Skulking Geist does help is the heavy control decks. Those that can deal with Jades up to 8/8 or 9/9; and push the Jade Druid to 10/10 or above to win. Decks like Control Paladin; Control Warrior and Control Priest. These are the decks where Skulking Geist can swing the Jade Druid matchup; because you have the resources to deal with the now-finite Jades.
tl;dr: Skulking Geist should only be teched against Jade Druid if your deck can already handle Jades up to 8/8 or 9/9. In that case; it changes a losing matchup into a winning one.
Current Deck -http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/240420-army-paladin - Token Paladin
The card exist for stop the infinite value of the deck. Not for win the match. Play it on turn 6 or early is a most cause that ensures you that you will not dealt with 8/8 or bigger golems. Jade druid dont run jade spirit in competitive decks (i do for example cause budget) cause there isnt needed of that card when you can go infinite with jade idol and turn 4 never exist for Druids as a 4 mana turn (or is waste into swipe). So yeah the card is good for what is made. Also is a good card agains some combo decks, agro druid runs mark of the lotus for example as a key buff card for the mana tokens.
Tbh I dont see how a 6mana card answers the cancerous problem of Druid players, let alone the other talentless Jade cards that Shaman and Druid completely abuse. Being able to cast 4 damage and then summon a 6/6 Jade is broken as fck, i refuse flat out to be associated with the dipshits that use the cards just to climb the ladder.
I welcome any aggro hunters or even PirateWarrior matches, the sole card that even gives me any hope of clinging to wins at the moment is the dreaded 'Ice block' but even that is just pointless against Jades, especially as Shaman can just mindless evolve them over and over too.
The whole idea of Jade needs to be nerfed, reaching 10/10+ in matchups is like an achievement most games, you know your only gonna be stomped but the fact they just keep +1 their hax minions is dumb as hell.
Wild Paladin fun
Guess i haven't been reading the forum enough lately as i didn't know they weren't anymore.
I like the Geist in my Control Paladin. It is still okay to remove Evolve, Mortal Coil, Soulfire, Hallucination, Cold Blood, Inner Fire, Power Word: Shield, and so on.
So far the downside of a weak card against Aggro didn't feel too terrible.
Skulking Geist is garbage. I've played a bunch of games as Jade Druid and I still have won most of the games that the Geist has been played against me. It's even funnier when I switch to control priest and someone plays the Geist against me. Useless.
So, are you people who tech in a Geist playing one copy? And do you also remove 1-drops from your deck?
Geist is fine. It loses only 2 stats for a nice ability which makes some fights much easier. Like evolve shaman without evolve, buff priest without inner fire or jade druid without jade idol. I'm playing DK elemental mage so I can easily outvalue all these decks.
im playing control priest, won already 3 matchup agaisnt jade druid when i draw it early and played as soon as possible, they died from fatigue.
the only one that i lost was when he ramp too fast and became very agresive, he didnt even used the jade idol, i died pefore.
very good card
Keep in mind it's also pretty strong vs evolve shaman, which seems to be fairly popular on ladder at the moment.
They have no removal for those 10/10's, but thats because that removal won't matter.
In the same way this Geist won't matter either as they will have lost before that already.
They don't lose because of the 10/10's but because of the shield generation of a druid unless the druid fails to destroy the minions.
So for them this card doesn't matter either.
However, will there be enough jade druids to make this card worth it?
I doubt there will be.
Before the new expansion jade druid was the most used deck with around 10% play.
So you only run into them 1 out of 10 games.
I doubt it.
But even there the opposing druid could still be one of 3 types.
After playing Geist there aren't enough Jades to deal with my Equalities anymore, that's how my games worked out.
At very least Auctioneer doesn't play like in miracle rogue once you destroy idols. And I guess the card also destroys some other cards likeEvolve, Earthen Scales, paladin secrets (might matter more in wild), quests (if for some reason people didn't play one on turn one like quest mage sometimes doesn't), Shield Slam and couple of Rogue and Priest cards.
IDK what people say positive about Skulking Geist, after playing 30 matches against Jade Druid the card has absolutely no effect that goes to your advantage. Jade Druid is stronger than ever in this meta and easily the strongest deck in the meta thanks to people whining about aggro decks being OP.
You all wanted Blizz to deal with aGGRO decks and they have. If you don't already in another week or so you'll wish hyper aggro decks were back in control. Jade Druid is out of control!
Geist should be rather have been made into a cheaper card with lesser stats and the same effect if this is the way they wanted to handle it. In all honesty though Jade Idol should never have existed in the first place. I have no idea why they're so scared to nerf a card that is very obviously a problem and people could see from the minute it was released that it was going to be an issue.
On the plus side, I'm something like 15-1 vs Jade Druid with midrange paladin and I'm enjoying destroying that stupid deck and the muppets that choose to play it. And it simultaneously destroys pirates...the other brainless deck.
In my experience, Geist has won me every game against Jade Druid so far. A lot of people are playing extremely greedy decks with 2 copies of Ultimate Infestation, and without infinite Idols, they just fatigue themselves to death.
However, what OP said is correct... many aggro and midrange decks can't compete with 9/9 jades anyway, so it's in their best interest to just play their strategy, and hope that they can smorc down the druid before the jades get too huge.
But the control matchup, which used to be heavily one sided, has now become completely manageable. Also, the geist is not completely irrelevant against many other decks... and the 4/6 statline isn't absolutely terrible, and in grindy control matchups, we can afford the occasional under-statted card.