I think that there are many really good decks on this site that get little attention with reasons such as: The creator has a rough time making a guide, the title wasn't as engaging, or the creator is just not known.
So I've come up with a way to bring to such decks more attention: A "recommend this deck" button.
How it could work: People who've already proven their deck creating skills, for example, people with 50 or more upvotes for their decks AND have a percentage of about 5 upvotes for each deck, will have access to the "recommend this deck" button.
By pressing this button, the deck would have an icon appeared next to it that says "recommended" and if you hover over it or click on the deck then you can see who recommended it. Maybe there'l also be a column for them.
This would be very good because it would promote good deck builders to search for less known decks and recommend them, thus lifting new deck builders up, while also promoting their own decks.
I agree, both as a player and a theory deck builder. It's hard finding decks that are fine tuned to my collection and not designed for people playing since beta with $500+ spent on the game (as opposed to my some petty $200), where the authors just expect you to have every card they picked and provide no alternatives for the ones you don't. Also, having ideas and trying to share them feel pointless when the deck listings just aren't designed to show creative and out-of-the-box decks off.
I agree, both as a player and a theory deck builder. It's hard finding decks that are fine tuned to my collection and not designed for people playing since beta with $500+ spent on the game (as opposed to my some petty $200), where the authors just expect you to have every card they picked and provide no alternatives for the ones you don't. Also, having ideas and trying to share them feel pointless when the deck listings just aren't designed to show creative and out-of-the-box decks off.
Very nice idea, I like it a lot.
Thanks man!I really hope staff will implement this idea. I just see no drawbacks in it and allot of positiveness. :3
Oh, also, maybe those who qualify for the recommend button can also give/create guides for the decks they recommend, with the approval of the creator (for example,whenever we create a deck we don't intend to create a guide for, there would be an option to mark which states that we agree for deck recommenders to create a guide to our deck).
Whenever a deck recommender creates a guide for a deck, from the moment the guide is created, if the deck receives 5 upvotes then the deck recommender will receive a trophy to that specific task (can be earned multiple times) and if it gets 20 upvotes then he'll receive a silver one, and a golden for 50 upvotes.
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
I like the idea as well. Just found a decent new approach to handlock (I love odd decks), but more than giving +1 is not possible, a feature for that would be great!
Thanks! :S
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
It's an interesting idea as it would move decks more towards curated content, but I don't think we need to go there yet. There are other avenues for people to promote other user's decks such as:
The Forums
Social media (Twitter, Facebook, reddit)
Sharing links within your own deck descriptions
Other than that, voting works pretty well and I've always said that people who put effort into writing a guide should also be sharing their decks on the forums (class forums would be good for this) to help promote that content they've written.
I do this with the decks I more care about (sharing them on the class forum), and I barely get any feedback/views through it. Only when a deck can 1. Be the first at something, 2. Do well at explaining it, and 3. Get lucky people upvote, comment, and favorite decks, which is way less common than someone just glancing at a deck and having a 2-second mental opinion before moving on, will it get a lot of views, votes, feedback, etc.
If a deck is bad or a joke, it doesn't need to get a lot of attention, but if it's something that has potential it should get shown around. Otherwise the popular net decks are just more aggro and decks the majority of players who don't have many cards can't play (which I have reason to believe as why so many people are keen on playing SMOrc and always have been).
It's not bad how it is, it at least shouldn't be, but it seems hard for decks to get deserved attention at times. That's why I'd like to see more front page deck coverage, like "most popular decks made this week that cover this new card(s)" or something.
It's an interesting idea as it would move decks more towards curated content, but I don't think we need to go there yet. There are other avenues for people to promote other user's decks such as:
The Forums
Social media (Twitter, Facebook, reddit)
Sharing links within your own deck descriptions
Other than that, voting works pretty well and I've always said that people who put effort into writing a guide should also be sharing their decks on the forums (class forums would be good for this) to help promote that content they've written.
With all due respect, Flux, and respect is due, none of those methods are in any way reliable to even get a deck to 10 upvotes, assuming the person who created the deck in unknown, the title of the deck is bad, and/or there isn't a guide.
Let's be honest, whenever an anonymous person creates a deck here, with a standard title and no guide, and even if he creates a thread for his deck via class forums, 99% of the time all of his efforts are completely ignored by everyone. There are way more decks created here than people give notice and I bet more than half of them are very good decks, so it saddens me that only so few decks receive the attention the (sometimes) deserve while others don't, for such insignificant reasons.
My suggestion would fix that problem exactly, in my humble opinion.
Just my two cents. :)
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Let's be honest, whenever an anonymous person creates a deck here, with a standard title and no guide
Well there's the problem, people should be writing guides if they want to be noticed/upvoted ;) Anyone can write down a list of cards on the site but why should anyone care if you don't tell them a bit about why those cards together are awesome. Decks get organic views with people browsing through the decks new queue and although it isn't always going to be a lot for every deck due to some having poorly considered titles, the chance is there for one of those viewers to toss a vote to the deck.
I've seen several "unknowns" or "anonymous" people have great success with decks they've submitted to the site, and they've always had guides attached to their decks, sometimes super epic looking ones. These people achieved their success through promoting their own guides on various sites/social media, through us featuring them on the homepage news when we find them, or just that organic success I mentioned previously. They've always had a good guide!
Could we do more through the news and our social channels in promoting lesser viewed guides? For sure! But for that kind of content to be featured, people need to write some awesome stuff and not half-ass it and just talk about themselves for a couple of paragraphs. Explaining how your deck works to everyone is essential.
Which also brings me to one of the things I've dreamed about having for a while, a filter on our deck search which could help find decks that have lengthy guide content. It's not currently on the development table, but perhaps one day we can have a feature like that which would help people exclude the decks that have no guide attached to it at all.
Now, your suggestion, I honestly don't believe it is the right solution to this "problem". Not only for the points I've made above but also due to the fact that it can very easily be abused and can curate the wrong kind of content. It's much nicer when everyone has a say in what makes it to the top of the site through voting and not just a few select people who have made good content in the past. We see a lot of vote manipulation on the site already from some deck creators (don't do this, we will warn you, remove votes, and eventually ban you for repeat offenses) and if someone who had access to a feature like this started to boost his buddies decks which aren't really that good, it can be a bit harder to police something like that.
I hope my post isn't interpreted the wrong way, we love to see feedback from everyone on the site and it's always interesting when people come up with feature ideas that we could possibly implement to make the site better, but this isn't the right thing to do right now.
P.S. It's 2 AM, I've probably included some kind of horrible grammatical mistake. Sue me!
Another thing which could help in this discussion:
This website has a feature which is very underated and in my opinion a lot of people don't even know about this feature.
It's the button "Similar Decks" at the botton of each deck. (btw currently the button is bugged, if you click it you just get the usual "waiting"-cogwheel).
When you create decks which have a very low similarity then this deck should get automatically more attention to the website (promoted decks on the frontpage for example). Yes, there might be potential for troll decks to abuse such a function, but I think it's worth a try to give this button more love.
Well, and in that context I just want to say that it bugs me sometimes that decks with a click-bait-title get so much attention, just to see that the deck has a similarity of 70%+ to other decks which are made way more earlier. A %-winrate or a famous pro player name should not allowed to be part of a deck title! Other click-baits are [Legend], [Top 100], [Fast ladder], [Guide], NEW, etc. These are all informations that are or should be in the deck description!
It would help A LOT if you provide some rules for deck titles to improve the quality of the promoted decks on the frontpage.
I think NEW is fine in a deck name if it's a new, successful adaptation of an old, no longer successful deck, and GUIDE is fine if there's, you know, a guide.
I think NEW is fine in a deck name if it's a new, successful adaptation of an old, no longer successful deck, and GUIDE is fine if there's, you know, a guide.
Hmm, well NEW can be identified by the deck's creation date and GUIDE is obvious when you open the link for the deck then you see if it has a guide or not - so still, these two are also click-baits like the others I mentioned.
Well, if it comes for a ruleset for click-bait titles for decks, then this might be relevant, but until then the staff should at first decide whether to discuss this topic or not.
I really would argue that Guide in particular isn't just click bait. Whatever you put in a title isn't click bait if it's what the person is looking for. Two decks are right next to each other, they're exactly the same, and one says "Guide" and fully explains the deck while the other has no details given. I think there's a right for it in that case.
Click bait is more like "Click here to enlarge your Hearthstone wins and make all the girl gamers want to watch your twitch stream." Yeah, things like "Easy Wins" and so forth are annoying if it's just to get the deck attention, but even things like "Legend" has reason to be there if it actually took someone from rank ~5-~15 to legend.
I've been thinking quite some time about what you said, Flux, and I must disagree that the main reason this is not the time to implement this is because people who write descriptive guides to their deck get what they deserve.
Because why shouldn't good decks because acknowledged even without guides? It makes the whole process of making a deck you want to be noticed so energy consuming. You're saying that it's enough that decks that have good guides get the attention they fully deserve, and that decks that don't have guides, or even bad guides, don't need to get attention, because they don't deserve it. I really think that's unfair...
If a deck recommender notices a good deck, regardless if it has a guide or not, then he could and should recommend it and it would get the attention it too deserves. It's so simple and so rewarding for people who make decks but don't posses the skill/mental capacity to write detailed and helpful guides.
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
We would rather push guides than deck lists alone. Guides are actual content that people can learn from and add value to the site where a simple deck list isn't as important.
While a deck list alone can be good, it's quite useless without a guide attached. This is proven time and time again when you see a deck with no guide, people are interesting in the list, it has a couple of upvotes, and they comment that they'd like to know how to play it.
If such a feature existed, and it was used to promote non-guides, we'd unflag those decks and question those who flagged it as such.
Perhaps then decks could be applied to be listed as an included, well-made guide. So, similarly to how Standard decks appear unique in the lists of decks, someone could write a guide and then click a button to ask for review. They can get queued up, someone can look over it to check for authenticity and quality, and stamp it with the seal of approval if it checks.
Having a guide in a selfmade deck does not garantuee to get attention. There are about 25 new decks per hour if you explicitly search for decks and filter for "new decks", so adding any kind of features that help you to identify decks of interest (DOI) ;) can help.
Again, there is also the button "Similar Decks" which is a very strong indicator how unique a deck can be. With the new Standard/Wild rotating format there might be even more deck creation than now (at least that's my guess) and what if we go up to 40 - 50 new decks per hour? Decks with 70%+ similarity should not get that much promoted from the system except for the first version of this deck.
You might can even go that far that when a user creates a deck with 90%+ similarity he gets a warning that such a deck already exists and one step further if there are 10+ decks with this kind of similarity to even deny to save such a deck.
I think that there are many really good decks on this site that get little attention with reasons such as: The creator has a rough time making a guide, the title wasn't as engaging, or the creator is just not known.
So I've come up with a way to bring to such decks more attention: A "recommend this deck" button.
How it could work: People who've already proven their deck creating skills, for example, people with 50 or more upvotes for their decks AND have a percentage of about 5 upvotes for each deck, will have access to the "recommend this deck" button.
By pressing this button, the deck would have an icon appeared next to it that says "recommended" and if you hover over it or click on the deck then you can see who recommended it. Maybe there'l also be a column for them.
This would be very good because it would promote good deck builders to search for less known decks and recommend them, thus lifting new deck builders up, while also promoting their own decks.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
I agree, both as a player and a theory deck builder. It's hard finding decks that are fine tuned to my collection and not designed for people playing since beta with $500+ spent on the game (as opposed to my some petty $200), where the authors just expect you to have every card they picked and provide no alternatives for the ones you don't. Also, having ideas and trying to share them feel pointless when the deck listings just aren't designed to show creative and out-of-the-box decks off.
Very nice idea, I like it a lot.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Oh, also, maybe those who qualify for the recommend button can also give/create guides for the decks they recommend, with the approval of the creator (for example,whenever we create a deck we don't intend to create a guide for, there would be an option to mark which states that we agree for deck recommenders to create a guide to our deck).
Whenever a deck recommender creates a guide for a deck, from the moment the guide is created, if the deck receives 5 upvotes then the deck recommender will receive a trophy to that specific task (can be earned multiple times) and if it gets 20 upvotes then he'll receive a silver one, and a golden for 50 upvotes.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Staff, did you consider my suggestion or did you completely ignore it? just wondering... :,D
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
It's an interesting idea as it would move decks more towards curated content, but I don't think we need to go there yet. There are other avenues for people to promote other user's decks such as:
Other than that, voting works pretty well and I've always said that people who put effort into writing a guide should also be sharing their decks on the forums (class forums would be good for this) to help promote that content they've written.
I do this with the decks I more care about (sharing them on the class forum), and I barely get any feedback/views through it. Only when a deck can 1. Be the first at something, 2. Do well at explaining it, and 3. Get lucky people upvote, comment, and favorite decks, which is way less common than someone just glancing at a deck and having a 2-second mental opinion before moving on, will it get a lot of views, votes, feedback, etc.
If a deck is bad or a joke, it doesn't need to get a lot of attention, but if it's something that has potential it should get shown around. Otherwise the popular net decks are just more aggro and decks the majority of players who don't have many cards can't play (which I have reason to believe as why so many people are keen on playing SMOrc and always have been).
It's not bad how it is, it at least shouldn't be, but it seems hard for decks to get deserved attention at times. That's why I'd like to see more front page deck coverage, like "most popular decks made this week that cover this new card(s)" or something.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Another thing which could help in this discussion:
This website has a feature which is very underated and in my opinion a lot of people don't even know about this feature.
It's the button "Similar Decks" at the botton of each deck. (btw currently the button is bugged, if you click it you just get the usual "waiting"-cogwheel).
When you create decks which have a very low similarity then this deck should get automatically more attention to the website (promoted decks on the frontpage for example). Yes, there might be potential for troll decks to abuse such a function, but I think it's worth a try to give this button more love.
Well, and in that context I just want to say that it bugs me sometimes that decks with a click-bait-title get so much attention, just to see that the deck has a similarity of 70%+ to other decks which are made way more earlier. A %-winrate or a famous pro player name should not allowed to be part of a deck title! Other click-baits are [Legend], [Top 100], [Fast ladder], [Guide], NEW, etc. These are all informations that are or should be in the deck description!
It would help A LOT if you provide some rules for deck titles to improve the quality of the promoted decks on the frontpage.
http://www.twitch.tv/leolph
Click here for my decks
"The Endgame in Hearthstone is deckbuilding."
-- Leolph, 2013
I think NEW is fine in a deck name if it's a new, successful adaptation of an old, no longer successful deck, and GUIDE is fine if there's, you know, a guide.
Well, if it comes for a ruleset for click-bait titles for decks, then this might be relevant, but until then the staff should at first decide whether to discuss this topic or not.
http://www.twitch.tv/leolph
Click here for my decks
"The Endgame in Hearthstone is deckbuilding."
-- Leolph, 2013
I really would argue that Guide in particular isn't just click bait. Whatever you put in a title isn't click bait if it's what the person is looking for. Two decks are right next to each other, they're exactly the same, and one says "Guide" and fully explains the deck while the other has no details given. I think there's a right for it in that case.
Click bait is more like "Click here to enlarge your Hearthstone wins and make all the girl gamers want to watch your twitch stream." Yeah, things like "Easy Wins" and so forth are annoying if it's just to get the deck attention, but even things like "Legend" has reason to be there if it actually took someone from rank ~5-~15 to legend.
I've been thinking quite some time about what you said, Flux, and I must disagree that the main reason this is not the time to implement this is because people who write descriptive guides to their deck get what they deserve.
Because why shouldn't good decks because acknowledged even without guides? It makes the whole process of making a deck you want to be noticed so energy consuming. You're saying that it's enough that decks that have good guides get the attention they fully deserve, and that decks that don't have guides, or even bad guides, don't need to get attention, because they don't deserve it. I really think that's unfair...
If a deck recommender notices a good deck, regardless if it has a guide or not, then he could and should recommend it and it would get the attention it too deserves. It's so simple and so rewarding for people who make decks but don't posses the skill/mental capacity to write detailed and helpful guides.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
We would rather push guides than deck lists alone. Guides are actual content that people can learn from and add value to the site where a simple deck list isn't as important.
While a deck list alone can be good, it's quite useless without a guide attached. This is proven time and time again when you see a deck with no guide, people are interesting in the list, it has a couple of upvotes, and they comment that they'd like to know how to play it.
If such a feature existed, and it was used to promote non-guides, we'd unflag those decks and question those who flagged it as such.
Perhaps then decks could be applied to be listed as an included, well-made guide. So, similarly to how Standard decks appear unique in the lists of decks, someone could write a guide and then click a button to ask for review. They can get queued up, someone can look over it to check for authenticity and quality, and stamp it with the seal of approval if it checks.
Having a guide in a selfmade deck does not garantuee to get attention.
There are about 25 new decks per hour if you explicitly search for decks and filter for "new decks", so adding any kind of features that help you to identify decks of interest (DOI) ;) can help.
Again, there is also the button "Similar Decks" which is a very strong indicator how unique a deck can be. With the new Standard/Wild rotating format there might be even more deck creation than now (at least that's my guess) and what if we go up to 40 - 50 new decks per hour?
Decks with 70%+ similarity should not get that much promoted from the system except for the first version of this deck.
You might can even go that far that when a user creates a deck with 90%+ similarity he gets a warning that such a deck already exists and one step further if there are 10+ decks with this kind of similarity to even deny to save such a deck.
http://www.twitch.tv/leolph
Click here for my decks
"The Endgame in Hearthstone is deckbuilding."
-- Leolph, 2013