They really only destroy small minions, which is only a problem if you're lacking in board control or playing aggro.
Or, as I have discovered, Fire Elemental and Azure Drake. That variance is why I hate Dr. Boom so much, and would love nothing more than for it to be nerfed until it's just 400 dust.
So, what would you all do if Dr. Boom DID get nerfed? What would you put in the 7 slot? Other than a few CLASS SPECIFIC cards there are NO good 7 drops. So what would you do? War Golem? No. A class specific? If you're lucky to have one. Just not play a 7 drop? That'll ruin your tempo.
DR. BOOM IS A NECESSARY EVIL!
If he didn't exist something else would. There has to be a solid 7 drop and atleast with this one you can only run 1 copy. What if there was a good 7 drop epic? Would you complain more because now you have to deal with 2 solid 7 drops? How about we just all stop crying nerf and learn to accept that Dr. Boom is here to stay. Oh, and btw, everyone can craft it so its not like its unfair... Why not cry about class specific legendaries, atleast then you would have something to argue about.
It's contradictory to say that there are no good 7-drops, but if Dr. Boom were nerfed, there would suddenly be another broken 7-drop.
Nerf dr boom to be a 7 mana 7/4 with two boom bots. As well as making bgh a 7 mana cost at least. Those two have completely took over and are played in like every deck, making them more inline with other cards will free up 3 card spaces. Right now you need those 3 cards to be competitive at all.
What's the third one? And BGH is only played because of Dr. Boom. As soon as Dr. Boom is nerfed, and starts dropping off of decklists, there'll be no reason to run BGH.
If they just added competitive 7 drops then it wouldnt be OP. right now it is just the ONLY good 7 drop (non class specific) so it seems a huge amount of play. if there were 3-4 good 7 drops then it would go down significantly
That's why Dr. Boom is played over 8-drops, because he's a fair 7-drop who just needs competition... right...
If there was a card named "Dr. Booms slightly smaller and less educated brother Mr. Boom" that was an 8mana 6/7 with the exact same battlecry people would play that over our Doctor.
That's actually a pretty good nerf. Up the mana, drop the attack out of BGH range to compensate.
you still see rag, grommash, KT, sneed's... He is just suplimental in a deck and can be played before an 8 drop which allows for a much more reliable turn 8 play due to them using their removal on boom. But I would never go as far as to say he replaces them.
Ragnaros the Firelord is hardly played, to the point where there's a thread asking why nobody plays him. Sneed's Old Shredder has hardly been touched since GvG's release, because it's very slow. Kel'Thuzad is practically a class legendary for druid. Grommash Hellscream is an actual class legendary and thus not up for comparison.
The problem with that form of argumentation is that it's completely based upon the assumption that cards that are outclassed by Dr. Boom don't see play for this single and very particular reason and that without the existence of Boom and the absence of this reason those cards would relatively get better and thus see play.
But i just don't see that being true. A lot of the GvG legendaries were very exciting for me especially Vol'jin was something i was really hyped about but almost every single one turned out to be rather underperforming. Yes they are clearly weaker in powerlevel in direct comparison to Dr. Boom but that is not Booms fault.
These cards are a perfect example for cards that are conceptually good but end up underperforming rather badly and yes people tend to then take the better option which does happen to be Dr. Boom. But even in a world without the card those others would not become good. Some just don't fit into any of the archetypes their classes provide, some have downsides that can screw over your game plan and some are just simply bad cards that nobody wants to play.
Thats not the fault of Dr. Boom he may be the one benefiting from this problem be ultimately he is not the source of the problem his popularity is merely the outcome of a lot of other cards underperforming in the current meta with mechanics that are clunky, too situational or simply bad.
While it's not his fault that other cards are underperforming, the fact that he isn't may be an example of how he's OP. After all, if every other high-mana legendary is performing worse than he is, wouldn't that mean he's stronger than every other high-mana legendary? Isn't that a little imbalanced?
And there's no real counter to him. Even when BGH was in every deck (which severely limited deckbuilding), Dr. Boom was still omnipresent. If a card that's played in spite of its hard counter being present isn't OP, then tell me what is.
Boom is stronger than undertaker, gadzastan, buzzard, leroy ever were...however he is likely selling a lot of gvg packs.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, he's in every deck and needs to be nerfed. No, he's not strong enough to facilitate a new deck type which then becomes over half of the meta. A better comparison would be 5 mana Sylvanas Windrunner.
Cenarius is only weak for his mana cost if you use him on an empty or near empty board. He was meant to support Token Druid, by giving them a late-game Power of the Wild to use on a heavy board. His treant option was only meant as a worst-case scenario vs aggro or on an empty board, similar to Ancient of Lore, so naturally it's a bit weak.
Like you said, for its mana cost its weak.
That's not at all what I said. What I said was Cenarius is only weak if played in a situation that isn't optimal, like every legendary except Dr. Boom.
How much late game decks we have right now? Even Control Warrior is a lot weaker today. The only late game deck still running is freezemage and handlock, and freezemage is more a combo deck than a late game deck. And handlock only works because Jarax or Malganis have both effects that protects the hero.
Late Game decks in HS (that run Dr. Boom) : Handlock, Control Warrior, Midrange Paladin, Overload Shaman, any Priest deck, Dragon Paladin, Ramp Druid, Combo Druid (8 total)
Late Game decks in HS : (without Dr. Boom) : Freeze Mage, Patron Warrior (2 total)
Fast decks in HS : Hunter, Mech Shaman, Mech Mage, Zoolock, Shockadin, that one face Priest deck that was popular for all of 5 seconds (6 total)
Most of those late game decks are weak or isn't late game decks at all (is kind of funny to read that a midrange deck is late game, its a joke right?)
To be honest, those are just decks I could remember as being somewhat viable. The same argument obviously goes for aggro, which includes the immensely viable shockadin and face priest. In terms of fully viable decks, I have a different list.
Seeing as the original post was arguing that heavy legendaries are weak, I don't see an issue with just grouping the decks that run these legends together. I don't think it matters what specific deck type it is, as long as it runs slow cards.
Runs a couple 7+ mana legends (with Dr. Boom): Control Warrior, Handlock, Midrange Paladin, Ramp Druid, Combo Druid (5 total)
Runs a couple 7+ mana legends (No Doctor): Freeze Mage, Patron Warrior (2 total)
what he needs is a 7 mana who is rivaling against him, because all the other 7 drops just sucks or are not good enough to use them in game.
I'm inclined to disagree. When Dr. Boom is rivaling 9-mana cards like Cenarius there's a problem, and adding in more OP 7 mana cards would just make it worse.
Been saying this for ages; some people disagree somehow!
I think that other legendaries are weak, Cenarius is weak for its mana cost.
Cenarius is only weak for his mana cost if you use him on an empty or near empty board. He was meant to support Token Druid, by giving them a late-game Power of the Wild to use on a heavy board. His treant option was only meant as a worst-case scenario vs aggro or on an empty board, similar to Ancient of Lore, so naturally it's a bit weak.
How much late game decks we have right now? Even Control Warrior is a lot weaker today. The only late game deck still running is freezemage and handlock, and freezemage is more a combo deck than a late game deck. And handlock only works because Jarax or Malganis have both effects that protects the hero.
Late Game decks in HS (that run Dr. Boom) : Handlock, Control Warrior, Midrange Paladin, Freeze Mage, Overload Shaman, any Priest deck, Dragon Paladin, Ramp Druid, Combo Druid (9 total)
Late Game decks in HS : (without Dr. Boom) : Freeze Mage, Patron Warrior (2 total)
Fast decks in HS : Hunter, Mech Shaman, Mech Mage, Zoolock, Shockadin, that one face Priest deck that was popular for all of 5 seconds (6 total)
The issue is the lack of efficient counters. Short of full board clears, like Twisting Nether, there's no way to efficiently counter him. Seriously, Big Game Hunter, a card meant specifically to counter 7+ attack minions, one that goes 2 for 1 every other time it triggers, is a 1 for 1 at best. Only Mind Control, has a chance of going 2 for 1, but that's 10 mana. If there was any single card that could deal with the Boom Bots and Dr. Boom, then he wouldn't be an issue. But, as it stands, he's guaranteed to get insane value.
Spending the entire turn to kill one card, while destroying any semblance of a board you might have, isn't efficient. It isn't even card efficient if you have any minions on the board.
Or, as I have discovered, Fire Elemental and Azure Drake. That variance is why I hate Dr. Boom so much, and would love nothing more than for it to be nerfed until it's just 400 dust.
It's contradictory to say that there are no good 7-drops, but if Dr. Boom were nerfed, there would suddenly be another broken 7-drop.
Mass Dispel + Lightbomb technically works. Of course, that's still 10 mana vs. five, and requires you to play Mass Dispel.
What's the third one? And BGH is only played because of Dr. Boom. As soon as Dr. Boom is nerfed, and starts dropping off of decklists, there'll be no reason to run BGH.
That's actually a pretty good nerf. Up the mana, drop the attack out of BGH range to compensate.
Ragnaros the Firelord is hardly played, to the point where there's a thread asking why nobody plays him. Sneed's Old Shredder has hardly been touched since GvG's release, because it's very slow. Kel'Thuzad is practically a class legendary for druid. Grommash Hellscream is an actual class legendary and thus not up for comparison.
While this is probably not due to Dr. Boom (except for Ragnaros the Firelord), your statement was incorrect.
While it's not his fault that other cards are underperforming, the fact that he isn't may be an example of how he's OP. After all, if every other high-mana legendary is performing worse than he is, wouldn't that mean he's stronger than every other high-mana legendary? Isn't that a little imbalanced?
And there's no real counter to him. Even when BGH was in every deck (which severely limited deckbuilding), Dr. Boom was still omnipresent. If a card that's played in spite of its hard counter being present isn't OP, then tell me what is.
That's only true if Dr. Boom is good against aggro. And, as a 7-mana card, I doubt he is.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, he's in every deck and needs to be nerfed. No, he's not strong enough to facilitate a new deck type which then becomes over half of the meta. A better comparison would be 5 mana Sylvanas Windrunner.
Yes, but casual players are at a stark disadvantage without Dr. Boom. And there's definitely more casual players than there are professional players.
That's not at all what I said. What I said was Cenarius is only weak if played in a situation that isn't optimal, like every legendary except Dr. Boom.
To be honest, those are just decks I could remember as being somewhat viable. The same argument obviously goes for aggro, which includes the immensely viable shockadin and face priest. In terms of fully viable decks, I have a different list.
Seeing as the original post was arguing that heavy legendaries are weak, I don't see an issue with just grouping the decks that run these legends together. I don't think it matters what specific deck type it is, as long as it runs slow cards.
Runs a couple 7+ mana legends (with Dr. Boom): Control Warrior, Handlock, Midrange Paladin, Ramp Druid, Combo Druid (5 total)
Runs a couple 7+ mana legends (No Doctor): Freeze Mage, Patron Warrior (2 total)
Fast: Hunter, Zoolock (2 total)
I'm inclined to disagree. When Dr. Boom is rivaling 9-mana cards like Cenarius there's a problem, and adding in more OP 7 mana cards would just make it worse.
Cenarius is only weak for his mana cost if you use him on an empty or near empty board. He was meant to support Token Druid, by giving them a late-game Power of the Wild to use on a heavy board. His treant option was only meant as a worst-case scenario vs aggro or on an empty board, similar to Ancient of Lore, so naturally it's a bit weak.
Late Game decks in HS (that run Dr. Boom) : Handlock, Control Warrior, Midrange Paladin, Freeze Mage, Overload Shaman, any Priest deck, Dragon Paladin, Ramp Druid, Combo Druid (9 total)
Late Game decks in HS : (without Dr. Boom) : Freeze Mage, Patron Warrior (2 total)
Fast decks in HS : Hunter, Mech Shaman, Mech Mage, Zoolock, Shockadin, that one face Priest deck that was popular for all of 5 seconds (6 total)
Spending the entire turn to kill one card, while destroying any semblance of a board you might have, isn't efficient. It isn't even card efficient if you have any minions on the board.