Who is running denathrius in the top decks right now, druid and…? What is “value priest” even? It sounds like you don’t have a wincon and the strategy is to answer and withstand all threats your opponent plays then play your power spike. It’s a dead strategy. Look, I love priest too, it’s my favorite class. I understand what you want to play, but those days are gone. It’s not just denathrius that killed it either. The value in priest now is draw/discount and naga priest isn’t up or down, it’s one of the best decks if not the best deck depending where you are on the ladder. Theotar is bad card and trying to play 20 turns is a long gone strategy. I’m not saying Theotar was never good or that he isn’t good in your case, but attrition decks that grind out games are going away. If you think it’s bad now, wait until DK comes out, there is no way decks that don’t have a proactive wincon stand a chance.
Sure whatever u said buddy. Look one think is said "u can climb with nagga priest" but nagga priest is the most easy deck to counter on ladder right now. The only place where the deck shines is on the high ranks were people spam Imp-Lock and Token Druid. Both the only decks on ladder that cant board wipe every turn. I dont see any proof of Naga Priest being a good deck overall. Is just a product of the ladder. Its good against decks that are not good dealing with a lot of minions in one hit. But the decks that are good doing that are bad against the top dogs (Imp Lock in particular that has a lot of tools to punish control decks). So Imp lock, the good deck keep on check the decks that destroy Nagga Priest so Nagga Priest is "good" in the same ranks were people is playing a lot of imp-lock.
I play many versions of Nagga Priest for one week and just come to the conclusion that is a deck that depends of other decks to be good. Its boring to play, its really hopeless against a lot of off-meta matchups. And dont even offers a great challengue to pilot. Its just learn when to hold your cards when play your cards, when over commit and when auto-concede. Boring Pseudo Zoo deck. Edit: you can argue that one dimensional decks like Demon Hunter or Naga Priest are not good or bad, but for sure not my style of play, i dont get any joy of ranking with stuff like that.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius,
Not to skew the conversation here (since this thread is about Theotar rather than Denathrius), but it's probably worth mentioning that he featured in EVERY deck in the recent tournament. If he wasn't needed, then I am pretty sure this wouldn't have been the case.
The thing with Denathrius is that this decks dont really need him to win but they CAN win with him. So why dont put him in the deck? is just 1 card and honestly when he appears fast he will win the game for u or atleast give u better odds.
@RendInFriend Friend, my point is exactly that. I dont care about those decks, i play value Priest, and talking from that only perspective is maybe wrong but i am pretty pure control priest is not the only deck that is unable to beat a Long-Game deck with Denathrius on top. Denathrius itself is not something that will kill you but if your oponent dry your resources and them will finish you with Denathrius. A lot of decks cant play against that. And to make it worse you just name the top dogs (and naga priest which as a up and down winrate but honestly it does pretty bad against the most played decks)
So he have two cards that the player base dont really like: Theotar which is the main target of nerfs because is not the face of the actual expansion a Denathrius a card that the devs admit they will probablynerf in the future but they dont want to nerf right now because is the face of this expansion They want people to "test him with the new cards to see if he is more balance there" - With a new expansion filled with resurrect a lot of minions and trade super big boards turn after turn...yeah that would be "fun" to see who has the biggest denathrius on curve as a Plan B wincon or who can set-up a denathrius combo as a main wincon.
Because of Denathrius i find Theotar effect very balance. We have a meta with super strong "hand to board" effects. We cant interact very well with this kind of cards and just delayed this cards dont supposed any problem for the opponent because eventually they are going to play them and get a heavy impact on the board that may win them the game on the spot. Until this changes i am in favor of Theotar. When that changes? sure delete the card.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
Mage doesn’t need Denathrius and has redundancy. Rogue is playing jackpot, Theotar does little against this matchup. Paladin is the same, if you have to choose between jailer and Denathrius, is it better to play something else? The answer to denathrius decks is to play something more proactive that has a gameplan. Relying on Theotar to solve denathrius isn’t it.
What is a more proactive gameplan y classes that dont have it? "Play Naga Priest" and accept to lose to board clear when you dont draw the combo or your oponent just hold hard removal forever until you commit or just try to win the matches against not AoE decks which wont happen neither. Nope, there is not other answer than Theothar and Mutanus for MY decks. Try the dragon package against this meta, its not even enough with all the pro-active plays it has. Face it, Denatrius kill most out-meta decks right now. You have access to heavy minion/spell spam or you have an OTK or just dont play this expansion.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
I dont know what people want this card to be honestly but i dont belive he would be bad never effect unless he cost 9,
His mana cost was never the problem. Nobody complained about him because they thought he was too cheap to play. It's the Discover element of his power that is what makes him strong and I am surprised after repeated nerfs that they still havent fixed this.
Denathrius can still be effected by plenty of other disruption mechanics, and even more options in a few days time when DK's are released. So it's not like Theotar is really "needed" in its current farm.
What other Disruption mechanic in standard prevents you from losing to 30 damage to face - For the resto of the game - ?
(The Answer is hit the jack-pot with mutanus) There is not a great card to call units from your oponents hand in standard right now. If there was one people wont be force to run Theothar and Mutanus both in literally every late game deck.
I dont know what people want this card to be honestly but i dont belive he would be bad never effect unless he cost 9, which is the turn before Sir Denathrius can be played so your oponent will dump his hand into the board and you will lose if you just play Theotar to take the Denathrius.
What keeps the card strong is how the decks that are really hurt by him really love to hold "game swimp" cards in their hands for the late game. And how little those decks can do if that card is taken away. Theotar for 6 is 100% a worse card in general against a lot of decks that wants to do stuff at turn 1 to 6 because unless you ramp u cant take those cards going second. Going first you can but there is nothing they can do to balance the going first vs going second stuff.
That said, control decks on standard keep a low winrate compare to combo and aggro. The only 2 control decks doing consistenly fine are Paladin and Shaman. One of them because it can abuse Theotar effect multiple times and the other runs 3 winconditions in the form of Sire, Jailer and Cariel. Ladder still is mostly mage, demon hunter, hunter and druid. In Wild the problem is that every X number of sets we need a tool to disrupt hand and all of them end up in Wild but that could be solve by banning 1 or 2 of the hard disruption.
We need cards like Theothar tho. Slowing a combo does nothing for control decks: cards that increase the cost of other cards to prevent an OTK play just buy u half of a turn because u wont have enough mana to end the game in that moment and most combos in Hearthstone are Winconditions, you win the very moment u make the combo. Regardless when you made the combo. There is not any argument against that, combos become winconditions so the only answer for control decks to keep being played was introduce 1 hand disruption card every X number of sets so you always have a way to win games that are decide by 1 card. Or the 1 play.
Sure whatever u said buddy. Look one think is said "u can climb with nagga priest" but nagga priest is the most easy deck to counter on ladder right now. The only place where the deck shines is on the high ranks were people spam Imp-Lock and Token Druid. Both the only decks on ladder that cant board wipe every turn. I dont see any proof of Naga Priest being a good deck overall. Is just a product of the ladder. Its good against decks that are not good dealing with a lot of minions in one hit. But the decks that are good doing that are bad against the top dogs (Imp Lock in particular that has a lot of tools to punish control decks). So Imp lock, the good deck keep on check the decks that destroy Nagga Priest so Nagga Priest is "good" in the same ranks were people is playing a lot of imp-lock.
I play many versions of Nagga Priest for one week and just come to the conclusion that is a deck that depends of other decks to be good. Its boring to play, its really hopeless against a lot of off-meta matchups. And dont even offers a great challengue to pilot. Its just learn when to hold your cards when play your cards, when over commit and when auto-concede. Boring Pseudo Zoo deck. Edit: you can argue that one dimensional decks like Demon Hunter or Naga Priest are not good or bad, but for sure not my style of play, i dont get any joy of ranking with stuff like that.
The thing with Denathrius is that this decks dont really need him to win but they CAN win with him. So why dont put him in the deck? is just 1 card and honestly when he appears fast he will win the game for u or atleast give u better odds.
@RendInFriend
Friend, my point is exactly that. I dont care about those decks, i play value Priest, and talking from that only perspective is maybe wrong but i am pretty pure control priest is not the only deck that is unable to beat a Long-Game deck with Denathrius on top. Denathrius itself is not something that will kill you but if your oponent dry your resources and them will finish you with Denathrius. A lot of decks cant play against that. And to make it worse you just name the top dogs (and naga priest which as a up and down winrate but honestly it does pretty bad against the most played decks)
So he have two cards that the player base dont really like: Theotar which is the main target of nerfs because is not the face of the actual expansion a Denathrius a card that the devs admit they will probably nerf in the future but they dont want to nerf right now because is the face of this expansion They want people to "test him with the new cards to see if he is more balance there" - With a new expansion filled with resurrect a lot of minions and trade super big boards turn after turn...yeah that would be "fun" to see who has the biggest denathrius on curve as a Plan B wincon or who can set-up a denathrius combo as a main wincon.
Because of Denathrius i find Theotar effect very balance. We have a meta with super strong "hand to board" effects. We cant interact very well with this kind of cards and just delayed this cards dont supposed any problem for the opponent because eventually they are going to play them and get a heavy impact on the board that may win them the game on the spot. Until this changes i am in favor of Theotar. When that changes? sure delete the card.
What is a more proactive gameplan y classes that dont have it? "Play Naga Priest" and accept to lose to board clear when you dont draw the combo or your oponent just hold hard removal forever until you commit or just try to win the matches against not AoE decks which wont happen neither. Nope, there is not other answer than Theothar and Mutanus for MY decks. Try the dragon package against this meta, its not even enough with all the pro-active plays it has. Face it, Denatrius kill most out-meta decks right now. You have access to heavy minion/spell spam or you have an OTK or just dont play this expansion.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
What other Disruption mechanic in standard prevents you from losing to 30 damage to face - For the resto of the game - ?
(The Answer is hit the jack-pot with mutanus) There is not a great card to call units from your oponents hand in standard right now. If there was one people wont be force to run Theothar and Mutanus both in literally every late game deck.
I dont know what people want this card to be honestly but i dont belive he would be bad never effect unless he cost 9, which is the turn before Sir Denathrius can be played so your oponent will dump his hand into the board and you will lose if you just play Theotar to take the Denathrius.
What keeps the card strong is how the decks that are really hurt by him really love to hold "game swimp" cards in their hands for the late game. And how little those decks can do if that card is taken away. Theotar for 6 is 100% a worse card in general against a lot of decks that wants to do stuff at turn 1 to 6 because unless you ramp u cant take those cards going second. Going first you can but there is nothing they can do to balance the going first vs going second stuff.
That said, control decks on standard keep a low winrate compare to combo and aggro. The only 2 control decks doing consistenly fine are Paladin and Shaman. One of them because it can abuse Theotar effect multiple times and the other runs 3 winconditions in the form of Sire, Jailer and Cariel. Ladder still is mostly mage, demon hunter, hunter and druid. In Wild the problem is that every X number of sets we need a tool to disrupt hand and all of them end up in Wild but that could be solve by banning 1 or 2 of the hard disruption.
We need cards like Theothar tho. Slowing a combo does nothing for control decks: cards that increase the cost of other cards to prevent an OTK play just buy u half of a turn because u wont have enough mana to end the game in that moment and most combos in Hearthstone are Winconditions, you win the very moment u make the combo. Regardless when you made the combo. There is not any argument against that, combos become winconditions so the only answer for control decks to keep being played was introduce 1 hand disruption card every X number of sets so you always have a way to win games that are decide by 1 card. Or the 1 play.