Love how the tinfoil hat-wearers selectively refute the arguments they think they have answers to, but they consistently fail to address the ironclad ones, such as:
Computing power and programming time required to do this would be so expensive that Blizzard would never recoup the investment.
Blizzard has tried and true psychological gimmicks at their disposal that can do the same task far more efficiently.
Blizzard has far more to lose than to gain if they cheat like this and get caught (and they WOULD get caught).
All the conspiracy theorists really have is anecdotal evidence that amounts to "I have trouble ranking up because I'm bad at the game and don't know it."
Lol, computing power and programming to do this would be almost nonexistent. It's literally comparing a hash of your deck against hashes of a win rate list and picking the one that favors or does not favor your win rate.
This would be 200 lines of code at worst, and that's really stretching it already. For draw optimization you can run sims, hearthstone deck tracker literally does the same, it runs thousands of sims for your entire board state and the opponent's, on people's potato pc's, in less than a second...
Lol at the programming bro talk. I actually do it for a living instead of telling people about it on the internet.
Your making a huge mistake by assuming everything is known and in a vacuum with no outside forces acting on it. Deck lists change all the time with subtle meta shifts. Not everyone has every card for every optimal deck. Not all metas are the same for every rank. Not all people can pilot a deck the same. Human behavior and ingenuity is a huge variable. To account for all of these things is near impossible without someone noticing at some point given how popular the game is.
As for the deck tracker I assume you are talking about the Battlegrounds one. Keep in mind there is far less going on there. You don't choose what minions are offered. They are all always offered. You don't choose how many exist. They all have a set amount. You don't choose who attacks who. It is governed by a strict set of rules. Far easier computationally.
Of course if you want to write that 200 lines of code that proves me wrong. Be my guest and make that app. I hope you get rich off it. I'm just going to err on the safe side and bet against you on that one.
I've mentioned it before, but at some point I'd like an answer as to why 3 people on Hearthpwn seem to have this all figured out but no one actually tracking and writing code for these things has. It's mind boggling.
The first error you are making is assuming you're the only one doing this sort of thing for a living ;) From your previous reply about this sort of thing (a simple deck hash comparison) needing 'massive computer power', i can already tell you that you either do not or are not very good at it though.
The hs deck tracker battlegrounds simulation actually does a LOT more than a simple boardstate check for calculating it's outcome positions, it actually simulates every possible outcome, and averages those out to give you a result.
Nuff said
Bro, I didn't make the original post you replied to. Check yourself on that.
Second of all you sound like a high school student, not an actual engineer doing real world work. If you did, then you would understand why your simple solution doesn't work in anything but a vacuum where things cannot deviate.
I never said anything about the complexity of the Battlegrounds simulator. Simply that it requires a lot less because there are less variables involved. You are just being a jerk and trying to twist what I said.
Here's an easy way to resolve this though. Put your money where your mouth is. Write the code. I'm waiting.
Love how the tinfoil hat-wearers selectively refute the arguments they think they have answers to, but they consistently fail to address the ironclad ones, such as:
Computing power and programming time required to do this would be so expensive that Blizzard would never recoup the investment.
Blizzard has tried and true psychological gimmicks at their disposal that can do the same task far more efficiently.
Blizzard has far more to lose than to gain if they cheat like this and get caught (and they WOULD get caught).
All the conspiracy theorists really have is anecdotal evidence that amounts to "I have trouble ranking up because I'm bad at the game and don't know it."
Lol, computing power and programming to do this would be almost nonexistent. It's literally comparing a hash of your deck against hashes of a win rate list and picking the one that favors or does not favor your win rate.
This would be 200 lines of code at worst, and that's really stretching it already. For draw optimization you can run sims, hearthstone deck tracker literally does the same, it runs thousands of sims for your entire board state and the opponent's, on people's potato pc's, in less than a second...
Lol at the programming bro talk. I actually do it for a living instead of telling people about it on the internet.
Your making a huge mistake by assuming everything is known and in a vacuum with no outside forces acting on it. Deck lists change all the time with subtle meta shifts. Not everyone has every card for every optimal deck. Not all metas are the same for every rank. Not all people can pilot a deck the same. Human behavior and ingenuity is a huge variable. To account for all of these things is near impossible without someone noticing at some point given how popular the game is.
As for the deck tracker I assume you are talking about the Battlegrounds one. Keep in mind there is far less going on there. You don't choose what minions are offered. They are all always offered. You don't choose how many exist. They all have a set amount. You don't choose who attacks who. It is governed by a strict set of rules. Far easier computationally.
Of course if you want to write that 200 lines of code that proves me wrong. Be my guest and make that app. I hope you get rich off it. I'm just going to err on the safe side and bet against you on that one.
I've mentioned it before, but at some point I'd like an answer as to why 3 people on Hearthpwn seem to have this all figured out but no one actually tracking and writing code for these things has. It's mind boggling.
The game algorithm matches you with a hard opponent depending on your deck and other things.
I just confirmed today that this algorithm is super rigged, unfair and unfunny.
If I use slow warlock quest I got matched with quest mage 99% of the time. Then I make a paladin deck that counters that deck AND ALMOST ZERO mages.....and if its a mage, its NEVER quest.
I change to warlock..same thing again..quest mage.
Theres no reason to play a game where all this is manipulated like gambling in a casino.
I play since beta...and at those times opponents were RANDOM.
Not now....everything is MANIPULATED somehow...packs...adventures...matches....I have lost the interest to play.
So if you think this is rigged against you, then what about your opponents? Were they rigged into good matchups? If so, they weren't rigged into hard matchups. What you're describing isn't the same rules for everyone.
A conspiracy theory really isn't a conspiracy theory without the benefactors of said rigging. So who are these opponents of yours getting these free wins? Bots programmed by Blizzard employees? Actual human Blizzard employees piloting the decks? People who spend more money on the game than you do? Lizard people? Zionists? I'm genuinely curious who you plan on scapegoating your ineptitude upon.
It's already been explained multiple times that the RNG rigging will favor you to end a long losing streak and go against you when you hit a progress gate (like legend). Either you are not reading the thread or are being willfully obtuse.
Yea, it's called finding you a worthy opponent. It even tells you so. If your MMR tanks because you are losing a lot then a worthy opponent is clearly one with less skill that you have a chance at beating. This is basic match making. Nothing nefarious.
You are all over the place and not making any sense. One minute you are on about a patent that is irrelevant to Hearthstone. Next you're making deluded statements like this. Seriously, who pays you to be such a huge troll? Your entire day cannot consist of just being a horrible human to other people on here.
OK, so please point me to a dataset that includes not only few milions of games played but also what cards each players own, what are their money spending, cards crafting, modes choosing patterns. What classes they play, how frequent do they play etc. For at least 2 last years of course. And if you don't have one please learn a bit of "basic" math.
The truth is we can only speculate whether any form of "rigging" takes place or not (unless of course we can get hs source code, both user and server side).
That is an insanely complicated way to do something that no company would ever need to do in the first place. To develop that kind of program would be a huge expense, and it would require ridiculous amounts of computing power and upkeep to track such data on every single player. It would simply not be worth it. Ask anyone who knows anything about database management, and they will confirm what I'm telling you.
It's not just the database stuff. It's all the programming that goes into analyzing it and making decisions based off of it. All of that costs a ton of money and resources to maintain and keep hidden. It also has a ton of risk if someone finds out about it. Turns out companies are very risk averse and don't like that type of thing.
Also, as mentioned no site that tracks these things has never found anything suspicious. You would also assume that if a programmer was being told to write code that seems unethical they would probably leak that information somewhere. Are the developers at Activision so evil that none would even consider that? And why is it that like 3 people on Hearthpwn have found an answer that no one else has? It's confusing to me.
To me the answer is someone is paying this 3nnu1 guy to be a huge troll. Lots of paid "activists" out there and plenty of them are internet trolls.
It's funny how the reality deniers always fall back on the same tired excuses.
Uh, you have confirmation bias. Which is a classic gaslighting technique that is use by con men of all ilks. Basically the argument is. You see that reality that is right in front of you, you are too stupid to know it is not real. Which is quite effective, especially with younger people who fear being perceived as different or dumb and are very sensitive to the criticism of their peers. This makes manipulating them way too easy.
But my very favorite is when they start in with burden of proof. That is language from court proceedings which is tied to two meanings, preponderance of evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt. Most lay people only think of beyond a reasonable doubt which is actually quite a difficult burden to make. I mean a guy has to be really guilty with a lot of strong evidence to overcome a reasonable doubt which a decent atty can generate.
So just in life, remember when someone goes to Burden of Proof to defend their position. What they usually mean is you are right but I can still deny it, nyaah, nyaah, nyaah.
But if you look at Blizzard/Activision...it is very hard to look at them as some moral group that would never engage in shenanigans to make money. I think their track record in the last decade speaks for itself. If you read through the other zephry;s thread I linked you will see many of the same arguments as this one, there is another good thread on this too, but I am bit too lazy to dig it up. But one thing to keep in mind is that Activision acquired King, which is notorious for manipulative controlled gameplay designed to cause frustration in their users to get them to spend. King also generates a bazillion dollars because that shit works. It is ridiculous to think that blizzard would not engage in similar tactics in this game.
Who pays to do this? No one would spend that much time on nonsense without getting paid by someone. Well I guess you could be unemployed and this is just what you fill the hole in your life with.
Oh I forgot the most common tactic, 'shoot the messenger' . If you cannot argue against a person's points, just go at them.
if you read my first post in the zephrys thread, you will understand my motivation.
Answer the question homie. Who is paying you? No once acts like this without some financial reason.
It's funny how the reality deniers always fall back on the same tired excuses.
Uh, you have confirmation bias. Which is a classic gaslighting technique that is use by con men of all ilks. Basically the argument is. You see that reality that is right in front of you, you are too stupid to know it is not real. Which is quite effective, especially with younger people who fear being perceived as different or dumb and are very sensitive to the criticism of their peers. This makes manipulating them way too easy.
But my very favorite is when they start in with burden of proof. That is language from court proceedings which is tied to two meanings, preponderance of evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt. Most lay people only think of beyond a reasonable doubt which is actually quite a difficult burden to make. I mean a guy has to be really guilty with a lot of strong evidence to overcome a reasonable doubt which a decent atty can generate.
So just in life, remember when someone goes to Burden of Proof to defend their position. What they usually mean is you are right but I can still deny it, nyaah, nyaah, nyaah.
But if you look at Blizzard/Activision...it is very hard to look at them as some moral group that would never engage in shenanigans to make money. I think their track record in the last decade speaks for itself. If you read through the other zephry;s thread I linked you will see many of the same arguments as this one, there is another good thread on this too, but I am bit too lazy to dig it up. But one thing to keep in mind is that Activision acquired King, which is notorious for manipulative controlled gameplay designed to cause frustration in their users to get them to spend. King also generates a bazillion dollars because that shit works. It is ridiculous to think that blizzard would not engage in similar tactics in this game.
Who pays to do this? No one would spend that much time on nonsense without getting paid by someone. Well I guess you could be unemployed and this is just what you fill the hole in your life with.
I guess you can say that anything that deviates from truly random is rigging the game.
Not only you can but you should.
No you shouldn't. For the exact reason my following sentence states: "Although that statement doesn't add value to the argument or the game. "
You're being an ass and quoting out of context while not addressing everything else I said. Are you a journalist or something?
I posted that in a hurry, sorry for being an ass. I don't get your next sentence. It doesn't add value to the argument, it IS the argument.
It doesn't add value because it is lowering the bar for the definition of rigging to virtually anything that does not appear to be random. That doesn't fit the definition and misuses the word as others have said.
If you're saying that it is not completely random that is one thing. Rigging has malicious and fraudulent intent attached to it. And there is certainly no proof of anything of that sort.
So tell me what word to use instead of rigging and I promise I will use that word. But there has to be a word for it since it is not random, and it is intentional.
Just say it's not random. That's all you need. But then this thread wouldn't be where you make your argument. The OP was specifically talking about rigging with malicious intent.
I guess you can say that anything that deviates from truly random is rigging the game.
Not only you can but you should.
No you shouldn't. For the exact reason my following sentence states: "Although that statement doesn't add value to the argument or the game. "
You're being an ass and quoting out of context while not addressing everything else I said. Are you a journalist or something?
I posted that in a hurry, sorry for being an ass. I don't get your next sentence. It doesn't add value to the argument, it IS the argument.
It doesn't add value because it is lowering the bar for the definition of rigging to virtually anything that does not appear to be random. That doesn't fit the definition and misuses the word as others have said.
If you're saying that it is not completely random that is one thing. Rigging has malicious and fraudulent intent attached to it. And there is certainly no proof of anything of that sort.
Threads like these are fascinating to me. I guess you can say that anything that deviates from truly random is rigging the game. Although that statement doesn't add value to the argument or the game.
I think it's fair to say that the game has a matchmaking system that tries to find you a "Worthy Opponent". Is that detrimental? I think not. Especially since there is no evidence it does it based on cards or decks. It's just a normal matchmaking system. Does it feel bad when you are higher up than you actually should be and you get your ass handed to you? Yea, but that's just part of finding your equilibrium.
People here are just ill equipped mentally to find their own faults in their play or deck. If it worked for so and so, why not me? because you are a human going up against another human who makes decisions and has creative thoughts. But it didn't follow the exact percentages I was told. Yea because those are based on huge sample sizes. You will see far more variation in your games than the stats show. Fact of the matter is that what you see is variation in how people see things and make decisions based on them. No one plays exactly the same way and there is always room for creativity and ingenuity which is what humans are good at. Adaptation to a meta is a sign of ingenuity not rigging.
I'd also like someone to respond to the HSReplay stuff. Seriously, any rigging would show up in their stats somewhere. The only answer I've seen is that they are not analyzing it correctly lol. That's not how data analysis works.
Here's my conspiracy theory. There are people that get paid by competitors to come here and try to get people to think Hearthstone is rigged and the developers are pure evil. I find it hard to believe people would troll so hard without getting paid.
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Do you have data on that too? Or is it just obvious again?
Do you have the data yet? I believe everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting.
Bro, I didn't make the original post you replied to. Check yourself on that.
Second of all you sound like a high school student, not an actual engineer doing real world work. If you did, then you would understand why your simple solution doesn't work in anything but a vacuum where things cannot deviate.
I never said anything about the complexity of the Battlegrounds simulator. Simply that it requires a lot less because there are less variables involved. You are just being a jerk and trying to twist what I said.
Here's an easy way to resolve this though. Put your money where your mouth is. Write the code. I'm waiting.
Lol at the programming bro talk. I actually do it for a living instead of telling people about it on the internet.
Your making a huge mistake by assuming everything is known and in a vacuum with no outside forces acting on it. Deck lists change all the time with subtle meta shifts. Not everyone has every card for every optimal deck. Not all metas are the same for every rank. Not all people can pilot a deck the same. Human behavior and ingenuity is a huge variable. To account for all of these things is near impossible without someone noticing at some point given how popular the game is.
As for the deck tracker I assume you are talking about the Battlegrounds one. Keep in mind there is far less going on there. You don't choose what minions are offered. They are all always offered. You don't choose how many exist. They all have a set amount. You don't choose who attacks who. It is governed by a strict set of rules. Far easier computationally.
Of course if you want to write that 200 lines of code that proves me wrong. Be my guest and make that app. I hope you get rich off it. I'm just going to err on the safe side and bet against you on that one.
I've mentioned it before, but at some point I'd like an answer as to why 3 people on Hearthpwn seem to have this all figured out but no one actually tracking and writing code for these things has. It's mind boggling.
Yea, it's called finding you a worthy opponent. It even tells you so. If your MMR tanks because you are losing a lot then a worthy opponent is clearly one with less skill that you have a chance at beating. This is basic match making. Nothing nefarious.
You are all over the place and not making any sense. One minute you are on about a patent that is irrelevant to Hearthstone. Next you're making deluded statements like this. Seriously, who pays you to be such a huge troll? Your entire day cannot consist of just being a horrible human to other people on here.
It's not just the database stuff. It's all the programming that goes into analyzing it and making decisions based off of it. All of that costs a ton of money and resources to maintain and keep hidden. It also has a ton of risk if someone finds out about it. Turns out companies are very risk averse and don't like that type of thing.
Also, as mentioned no site that tracks these things has never found anything suspicious. You would also assume that if a programmer was being told to write code that seems unethical they would probably leak that information somewhere. Are the developers at Activision so evil that none would even consider that? And why is it that like 3 people on Hearthpwn have found an answer that no one else has? It's confusing to me.
To me the answer is someone is paying this 3nnu1 guy to be a huge troll. Lots of paid "activists" out there and plenty of them are internet trolls.
Answer the question homie. Who is paying you? No once acts like this without some financial reason.
Who pays to do this? No one would spend that much time on nonsense without getting paid by someone. Well I guess you could be unemployed and this is just what you fill the hole in your life with.
Just say it's not random. That's all you need. But then this thread wouldn't be where you make your argument. The OP was specifically talking about rigging with malicious intent.
It doesn't add value because it is lowering the bar for the definition of rigging to virtually anything that does not appear to be random. That doesn't fit the definition and misuses the word as others have said.
If you're saying that it is not completely random that is one thing. Rigging has malicious and fraudulent intent attached to it. And there is certainly no proof of anything of that sort.
No you shouldn't. For the exact reason my following sentence states: "Although that statement doesn't add value to the argument or the game. "
You're being an ass and quoting out of context while not addressing everything else I said. Are you a journalist or something?
Threads like these are fascinating to me. I guess you can say that anything that deviates from truly random is rigging the game. Although that statement doesn't add value to the argument or the game.
I think it's fair to say that the game has a matchmaking system that tries to find you a "Worthy Opponent". Is that detrimental? I think not. Especially since there is no evidence it does it based on cards or decks. It's just a normal matchmaking system. Does it feel bad when you are higher up than you actually should be and you get your ass handed to you? Yea, but that's just part of finding your equilibrium.
People here are just ill equipped mentally to find their own faults in their play or deck. If it worked for so and so, why not me? because you are a human going up against another human who makes decisions and has creative thoughts. But it didn't follow the exact percentages I was told. Yea because those are based on huge sample sizes. You will see far more variation in your games than the stats show. Fact of the matter is that what you see is variation in how people see things and make decisions based on them. No one plays exactly the same way and there is always room for creativity and ingenuity which is what humans are good at. Adaptation to a meta is a sign of ingenuity not rigging.
I'd also like someone to respond to the HSReplay stuff. Seriously, any rigging would show up in their stats somewhere. The only answer I've seen is that they are not analyzing it correctly lol. That's not how data analysis works.
Here's my conspiracy theory. There are people that get paid by competitors to come here and try to get people to think Hearthstone is rigged and the developers are pure evil. I find it hard to believe people would troll so hard without getting paid.