Scrotie, your critique of my logic is entirely wrong.
Ysera and Flurgal are Tavern immune due to guaranteed synergy.
Then you list the top heroes at high MMR to dispute this.
Well guess what: Hooktusk, Daryl and Galewing are also tavern avoiding heroes. Hooktusk discovers, Galewing discovers and Daryl just sells what he gets to super buff so it doesn't much matter what the 15/15 minion is.
(Note: since you seem to think this is a "skill game" and probably like MMR, I was at 11000 - 12000 MMR for a long time when the game interested me enough to "try hard". And there are elements of skill, but in this current meta mostly you need to be on track to compete for the win at 7, 8, 9 mana -- this is totally a high roller meta).
True, it often feels like the game is decided very early, purely by RNG. If you don't have any power house by turn 7, while other players do, you're done, because they will grow from now on (every single turn), and you will fall behind more and more.
This. If Bob decides to suicide you by offering you 2 unstable ghouls and 2 undesirable Tier 1 units on 5 mana or 6 mana, you probably are doomed.
This is why Ysera and Flurgal, who are guaranteed synergy units and therefore inevitable triples are #1 and #2 heroes.
The could fix this by offering 3 free refreshes every turn (and deleting idiot Millhouse Manastorm who shouldn't be a hero).
I just queue to try and do highroll or cheese setup (like nzoth ghoul bombs)
Regular match is just autopilot to tier 3 then desperately finding a tribe and scaling unit from tier 4, if you whiff first tier 5/6 discover it's almost always game over.
It isn't very good right now. Kinda of boring and your decisions aren't mattering much.
I think the meta got way worse in a complicated way.
There are more ways to build, but no minions that stop the bleeding.
Bob can easily decide to kill you with just 1 or 2 trash Tavern rolls at 7, 8, 9 mana. You don't advance your board state, which for most tribes means buff every single turn. Then you get slaughtered 2 turns in a row.
You didn't make bad decisions, Bob just decided to crap all over you --- and he always tells you he's rooting for you when he takes a major shit on your game state.
And we are back again to a single discover whiff on rolling a triple can be fatal for a non-buff, non-synergy hero --- which often comes in the form of being offered the 1/1 poisonous + strongshelll scavager + something weird for your Tier 5 unit.
On the plus side, I suppose buff heroes matter again.
Huge Dragons = Groundshaker + Whelp Smuggler + Trash Dragons + Bannerboar (the 1/4 minion that plays a bloodgem on adjacent Quillboar)
Played as Shudderwock (no Murlocs in Tavern) and never got anything good and didn't Triple until just 2 players left.
Saw a Groundshaker and wanted to know how it worked with Whelp Smuggler.
Won last 9 battles in a row and beat a large demons board 3 times in a row with help from Nadina.
As it turns out Groundshaker + Bannerboar with Whelp Smuggler can buff even crappy dragons very nicely if you occasionally sell some Sun-Bacon Relaxers.
Turned trash Tavern rolls into a huge board. I wanted demons or beasts, instead I got bad minions no one wanted but figured out how to combo them.
Standard is actually better with than BGs right now lol
Depends on what you are looking for. Hard to compare them.
That being said, this is the best Battlegrounds meta ever. It's not even close.
So many great heroes. So many ways to leverage minions. Damage cap. Some minions are broken, but everyone has opportunity to use them and everyone knows what they are.
Flurgal has knocked off Nguyen for #1 Hero at HSReplay.
In something that I consider a little bit disturbing, Millhouse is #7. With 2 elementals that can provide free refreshes and 2 mana cheat Pirates, much of the time Millhouse is all upsides and no downsides. I actually picked Millhouse over Nguyen when I saw both Pirates and Elementals were going to be in the game, and finished #2 to the Omu who had all the Tier 6 pirates I wanted but couldn't find.
Vol'jin has some better synergies than I expected there! Most of the time I was upgrading other stuff rather than going for a smidgen of extra health, but it's a nice little bonus for when your other stuff can't be upgraded :)
I was avoiding Voljin, but my other 3 options were the "Who's Who" of bottom of Tier 4 heroes -- so Voljin it was.
I was pleasantly surprised to discover he can actually be helpful and not a far worse Mutanus. In the same game, I was up against a dragons Mukla who had been using bananas with his own Chromowing/Whelp Smuggler combo to make some very large dragons.
Nice to find some creative ways to create big advantages with what are otherwise middle of the pack heroes.
I dont care what HSReplay says. There are 2 very broken heroes in game. Shudderwock with tokens is almost always autowin. Nguen is broken as hell. Noone in their right mind will pick Silas or Flurgal over it.
I do think Nyugen is broken. He should be nerfed in the way you said, make it random.
But I will pick Silas or Flurgal over him every single time.
Silas is one of the few heroes immune to what is in Bob's Tavern (Bob cannot screw you). He is Elise on super-steroids. You have a strong early game because your free discover units mean you can fill your board faster than most heros, you have tons of discover and whiff units become coins.
Flurgal is also immune to Bob's Tavern -- you will get 4/5 triples every single game and you can always find Murlocs. Alley Cat and 2/2 water elemental can double up your Murloc offerings.
When I play Silas or Flurgal, especially with the 15 damage cap in place, it is almost statistically impossible to keep me out of Top 4 and not even Bob can stop it.
1) Buff heroes are now trash (except C'tun due to Whelp Smuggler effect). 2) The best heroes despite what HSReplay says are probably Janice Barov, Silas Darkmoon, Reno Jackson, Flurgal. Silas can do 10 discovers a game. Reno just needs one "win the game" unit to make golden and potentially run away with the game. Flurgal is out of control good.
Win The Game Units: 1) Impatient Doomsayer 2) Whelp Smuggler 3) Tarecgosa - the 4/4 dragon that keeps all combat buffs. Divine shield from Selfless Hero or Nadina is a buff. Crazy strong. 4) Dazzling Lightspawn - if you are going elementals, never get rid of even one of these. 5) Insatiable Ur'zul - the Tier 5 demon that eats Tavern minions itself. You can get this to 100 health rather quickly with Impatient Doomsayer synergy. 6) Bigfernal - Tier 4 growing demon, synergy with Impatient Doomsayer.
For me, I can't quite see a way to make Beasts consistently work, but Illidan can do it. Monsterous McCall and Leapfrogger plus Rivendare is so strong. Pirates are hard to pull off, seems that the pirates really needed to win games are Tier 4 and higher -- I've seen some players use Reno Jackson on Tony Two-Tusk and create nightmarish Pirate boards. Mechs can win, Holy Mecheral is great and Omega Buster is a broken strong Tier 6.
I don't see any Quillboar boards in the late game.
Master Nyugen is really good and really strong and quite fun, but he isn't quite the best hero. Depending on what tribes are in the game, Jandice Barov's ability to manufacture triples multiple times or how Silas Darkmoon can both board flood and do countless discovers are better. If murlocs are in the game, Flurgal is broken.
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I am not Tori, I was never able to crack the Battlegrounds Top 200. I came damn close, though.
I did notice the name "Tori" when I was trying to crack the Top 200. Those games at MMR 11500+ were hard as hell.
Scrotie, your critique of my logic is entirely wrong.
Ysera and Flurgal are Tavern immune due to guaranteed synergy.
Then you list the top heroes at high MMR to dispute this.
Well guess what: Hooktusk, Daryl and Galewing are also tavern avoiding heroes. Hooktusk discovers, Galewing discovers and Daryl just sells what he gets to super buff so it doesn't much matter what the 15/15 minion is.
(Note: since you seem to think this is a "skill game" and probably like MMR, I was at 11000 - 12000 MMR for a long time when the game interested me enough to "try hard". And there are elements of skill, but in this current meta mostly you need to be on track to compete for the win at 7, 8, 9 mana -- this is totally a high roller meta).
This. If Bob decides to suicide you by offering you 2 unstable ghouls and 2 undesirable Tier 1 units on 5 mana or 6 mana, you probably are doomed.
This is why Ysera and Flurgal, who are guaranteed synergy units and therefore inevitable triples are #1 and #2 heroes.
The could fix this by offering 3 free refreshes every turn (and deleting idiot Millhouse Manastorm who shouldn't be a hero).
It isn't very good right now. Kinda of boring and your decisions aren't mattering much.
Tavern offerings matter far more than strategy.
I think the meta got way worse in a complicated way.
There are more ways to build, but no minions that stop the bleeding.
Bob can easily decide to kill you with just 1 or 2 trash Tavern rolls at 7, 8, 9 mana. You don't advance your board state, which for most tribes means buff every single turn. Then you get slaughtered 2 turns in a row.
You didn't make bad decisions, Bob just decided to crap all over you --- and he always tells you he's rooting for you when he takes a major shit on your game state.
And we are back again to a single discover whiff on rolling a triple can be fatal for a non-buff, non-synergy hero --- which often comes in the form of being offered the 1/1 poisonous + strongshelll scavager + something weird for your Tier 5 unit.
On the plus side, I suppose buff heroes matter again.
Huge Dragons = Groundshaker + Whelp Smuggler + Trash Dragons + Bannerboar (the 1/4 minion that plays a bloodgem on adjacent Quillboar)
Played as Shudderwock (no Murlocs in Tavern) and never got anything good and didn't Triple until just 2 players left.
Saw a Groundshaker and wanted to know how it worked with Whelp Smuggler.
Won last 9 battles in a row and beat a large demons board 3 times in a row with help from Nadina.
As it turns out Groundshaker + Bannerboar with Whelp Smuggler can buff even crappy dragons very nicely if you occasionally sell some Sun-Bacon Relaxers.
Turned trash Tavern rolls into a huge board. I wanted demons or beasts, instead I got bad minions no one wanted but figured out how to combo them.
Depends on what you are looking for. Hard to compare them.
That being said, this is the best Battlegrounds meta ever. It's not even close.
So many great heroes. So many ways to leverage minions. Damage cap. Some minions are broken, but everyone has opportunity to use them and everyone knows what they are.
It is pretty silly a Monsterous McCaw massively enlarging itself every attack as final minion.
Flurgal has knocked off Nguyen for #1 Hero at HSReplay.
In something that I consider a little bit disturbing, Millhouse is #7. With 2 elementals that can provide free refreshes and 2 mana cheat Pirates, much of the time Millhouse is all upsides and no downsides. I actually picked Millhouse over Nguyen when I saw both Pirates and Elementals were going to be in the game, and finished #2 to the Omu who had all the Tier 6 pirates I wanted but couldn't find.
Tarecgosa keeps the Divine Shield, Windfury and Taunt from the Alakir hero power.
I had a triple one and one of the 4/4 give taunts +2 attack when attacked permanently and a Whelp Smuggler.
Taregosa was massive and the more it got hit, the more health it got too.
I was avoiding Voljin, but my other 3 options were the "Who's Who" of bottom of Tier 4 heroes -- so Voljin it was.
I was pleasantly surprised to discover he can actually be helpful and not a far worse Mutanus. In the same game, I was up against a dragons Mukla who had been using bananas with his own Chromowing/Whelp Smuggler combo to make some very large dragons.
Nice to find some creative ways to create big advantages with what are otherwise middle of the pack heroes.
Voljin hero tip ---
If you have 2 Chromowings (the Tier 1 Dragon that attack grows) + a Whelp Smuggler ...
If you use your hero power to switch stats between the 2 Chromowings, 1 of them gets health buffed by Whelp Smuggler.
So if every turn you swap stats between 2 Chromowings with different attack, you can make their health huge.
Then I bought a Hydra and swapped stats with the Chromowing, having a 70/70 Hydra.
I do think Nyugen is broken. He should be nerfed in the way you said, make it random.
But I will pick Silas or Flurgal over him every single time.
Silas is one of the few heroes immune to what is in Bob's Tavern (Bob cannot screw you). He is Elise on super-steroids. You have a strong early game because your free discover units mean you can fill your board faster than most heros, you have tons of discover and whiff units become coins.
Flurgal is also immune to Bob's Tavern -- you will get 4/5 triples every single game and you can always find Murlocs. Alley Cat and 2/2 water elemental can double up your Murloc offerings.
When I play Silas or Flurgal, especially with the 15 damage cap in place, it is almost statistically impossible to keep me out of Top 4 and not even Bob can stop it.
My thoughts ...
1) Buff heroes are now trash (except C'tun due to Whelp Smuggler effect).
2) The best heroes despite what HSReplay says are probably Janice Barov, Silas Darkmoon, Reno Jackson, Flurgal. Silas can do 10 discovers a game. Reno just needs one "win the game" unit to make golden and potentially run away with the game. Flurgal is out of control good.
Win The Game Units:
1) Impatient Doomsayer
2) Whelp Smuggler
3) Tarecgosa - the 4/4 dragon that keeps all combat buffs. Divine shield from Selfless Hero or Nadina is a buff. Crazy strong.
4) Dazzling Lightspawn - if you are going elementals, never get rid of even one of these.
5) Insatiable Ur'zul - the Tier 5 demon that eats Tavern minions itself. You can get this to 100 health rather quickly with Impatient Doomsayer synergy.
6) Bigfernal - Tier 4 growing demon, synergy with Impatient Doomsayer.
For me, I can't quite see a way to make Beasts consistently work, but Illidan can do it. Monsterous McCall and Leapfrogger plus Rivendare is so strong. Pirates are hard to pull off, seems that the pirates really needed to win games are Tier 4 and higher -- I've seen some players use Reno Jackson on Tony Two-Tusk and create nightmarish Pirate boards. Mechs can win, Holy Mecheral is great and Omega Buster is a broken strong Tier 6.
I don't see any Quillboar boards in the late game.
Master Nyugen is really good and really strong and quite fun, but he isn't quite the best hero. Depending on what tribes are in the game, Jandice Barov's ability to manufacture triples multiple times or how Silas Darkmoon can both board flood and do countless discovers are better. If murlocs are in the game, Flurgal is broken.