Hearthpwn

Quote from OoZuNoO >>

 

 Uh...you realise quest mage is tier 3...right? What you're saying it ping mage is just as good as quest mage then.

 Quest mage is lower tier 2 in hsreplay, it still has the significant role of countering crtl shaman and pirate warrior. That might change as the meta post-patch shifts, but thats how it is now. The best HP mage list remains lower tier 3 in comparison.

Quote from FortyDust >>

That makes sense because Quest destroys slow decks, while Ping is better at handling aggro. Quest tends to beat Ping when they face off against each other because Ping has to play minions and Quest does not.

(OoZuNoO's comment about RSW is silly, of course, because Ping has plenty of minion-based draw.)

 You mean Starscryer? Manafeeder Panthara? Frostweave Dungeoneer? Sure hope not, cuz that would be hilarious.

Quote from ShadowAldrius >>

Depends on the build I think. This version I've been running really doesn't struggle with greedy quest decks. It blows them up faster than it dies to them.

My issue with HP mage rn is that no matter how you build it, it feels like a much slower, less efficient version of shadow priest, looks too redundant to me. Your list looks fun though, I'd still probably find space for Wandmaker since Wildfire is 1 mana now.

 Well, Shadow Priest doesn't have nearly as much burn from hand is the main thing I'd say HP mage has over Shadow Priest. Mage also has a lot more card draw. They're actually pretty different decks. Shadow Priest is typically like a zoo/aggro build, while I think Wildfire Mage is built much more for tempo.

Wandmaker's a petty mediocre tempo card. But maybe in place of Wand Thief. First Flame, Primordial Studies, Brain Freeze, Devolving Missiles are all good hits.

Also Manafeeder Panthera is definitely good in HP mage.

Depends on the build I think. This version I've been running really doesn't struggle with greedy quest decks. It blows them up faster than it dies to them.

Quote from OoZuNoO >>

Quote from ShadowAldrius >>

 It REALLY isn't garbage. Wildfire is an insanely strong card now alone. And Mordresh is a huge tempo swing AND finisher.

 Tried every build I could think/find, Quest mage still better in every way. HP Mage just cant kill your opponent fast enough, its tier 3 at best. Any mage deck that doesnt abuse Incanter's Flow and RSW has zero chance of being good rn, hopefully that changes with the miniset.

 I mean are you building for tempo? Because Hero Power Mage is absolutely a tempo deck. I regularly kill opponents by turn 8 with Mordresh which is about when Questline Mage does.

And you don't need to run big tempo loss cards like Incanter's Flow or plug your deck with slow/weak spells for RSW.

Quote from sanchogrande >>

Quote from ShadowAldrius

>>But Ignite NEEDS the quest

 What? Is that true? Isn't ignite good in pretty much any deck? I can't imagine not wanting it in a mage deck.

 Let me clarify: it needs some sort of spell damage. 2 damage for 2 mana is extremely subpar, and the ability to go infinite is good in control match-ups, but those are non-existant atm.

Quote from OoZuNoO >>

The worst part is there rly aint no way to balance Ignite w/o just murdering it, cuz the issue is the self-shuffling effect giving mage infinite dmg and thats what the card is played for, w/o it the class is just dead in standard.

The hero power buffs didnt do enough to rly get it off the ground, its still garbage. Since the class playrate is so low Blizz wont change anything, so whenever you queue up against mage it just feelsbadman.

 It REALLY isn't garbage. Wildfire is an insanely strong card now alone. And Mordresh is a huge tempo swing AND finisher.

Quote from brother >>

Sorry but endless scaling damage isnt exactly “pointless”. And mage is already drawing 4 cards for ZERO with cram session+ incanter’s flow + their quest reward so they already cheat out enough mana as it is. There has to be some sort of drawback for the infinite fireballs which currently does not exist

 2 damage for 2 mana is good, 3 damage for 3 mana is maybe slightly better, 4 damage for 4 mana is worse, 5 damage for 5 mana is slightly better than 4. 6 damage for 6 mana is way worse. 7 damage for 7 mana is one of the worst only 9 is even worse. 8 and 10 are slightly better because those are semi-critical health totals (10 is a third of a players' total health, a lot of minions have 8 health).

You're not gaining much of anything by increasing the cost and damage like that. The card's ability to scale isn't really that important, it's that mage has an endless supply of burn spells in their deck. Combine that with the quest and you kind of have a problem.

But Ignite NEEDS the quest, the quest is good even without Ignite.

That'd be... pointless. The card would become worse every time you shuffle it into your deck.

Quote from Niklas2155 >>

I agree, Ignite is a problem.

Maybe a nerf could be that it increases in price? As in „Add another Ignite to your deck that deals one more damage and costs one more. Or make it cost at least 4 mana to begin with. This card is so many good things at the same time.

Remember Jade Druid who couldn‘t fatigue? There was a direct counter in Skulking Geist. There is no way to get rid of Ignite once it has started. Maybe with milling or a lucky Tickatus. But there is no viable strategy to deal with it. When used in Quest Mage it is both quite aggressive but also a long term play. Most other strategies / cards force you to choose, either aggressive or invest in long game. Even if you were to nerf 2-3 of the card drawing mechanics of Mage, it would still be overpowered. 

I get that for some people this will seem like a heated discussion, but I am convinced that I look at the issue rationally and not emotionally and see a big problem regardless. Obviously there is a small window between a Mage building up its Quest and/or card drawing shenanigans where you can overwhelm them with a combo or a full board, but it‘s a very small window.

 Jade Idol scaled way faster and cost half as much mana. Ignite's strength is mostly that it's cheap and synergizes well with spell damage, not that it's infinite.

It's the draw more than anything. Ignite is a weaker Forgotten Torch. (Which doubles it's damage after one use) But Mage these days, rather than just relying on Arcane Intellect has about 6 card draw cards it uses.

Cram Session, Refreshing Spring Water, Arcane Intellect, even neutrals like Gadgetzan Auctioneer see play in Quest Mage. They have like 5 fantastic card draw cards that they don't even use. And then like 2 more cycle cards than that that they also don't use. What class needs THIS MUCH versatile card draw?

On top of that, Incanter's Flow lets you cycle through resources EXTREMELY quickly. You can easily dump your hand and immediately refill it.

Quest Mage COULD be a tempo deck. It COULD be a control deck, where it uses the spell damage to power up it's removal effects to get to the late game. But no, it is ONLY a combo deck that cycles through it's whole deck to win.

I mean how often should "I mill myself and then blow you up" be a win condition really?