Slapping an effect on a card or minor tweaks doesn't necessarily mean it is lazy or uninspired, after all, your unleash the whelps is basically the same as unleash the hounds. And I actually disagree with you, the basic set is not meant to be weak, it is meant to be simple. You wouldn't call fireball weak, blessing of kings weak, or holy nova weak.
I think at the end of the day, also being a player that knows every card and has been creating custom cards for honestly way too long lmao, it just so happens to be differing card design philosophies. I see the direction the game is heading in, much stronger cards (large powercreep like new Alex and illidari inquisitor vs king krush all the way to minor powercreep like spawnpool forager vs Murmy and possessed villager) more synergy between cards to the point of entire archetypes, that sort of thing. It comes down to knowing how far you can push your cards, the difference being your class will be mediocre in terms of power and may not have the tools to compete, vs you go too far, like what blizz did with DH. We shall see what the voters have to say, I suppose.
While a lot of your feedback is valid, the fact is that balance just isn't the same as it used to be. There has been a fair bit of powercreep over the last few expacs, so one-to-one comparisons are still useful, but not always the end all be all. If you use only old cards and don't take into consideration the current meta and card power levels, your class will be... "too fair".
Even Blizzard acknowledges this with their buffs to basic cards in the core set, and some of them still don't see play. Instead of using older cards as something set in stone, I would just look at the card and give it a sanity check. For example, excess chitin compared to iron hide. Iron hide saw absolutely 0 play and was printed many years ago, so it stands to reason excess chitin should cost 1 rather than 2, which would make it unplayable. Conversely, if you make it 4 armor, then you have to consider Armor Vendor. Yes it gives the opponent 4 armor as well, but giving a faster opponent 4 armor when you are trying to slow down their fast damage means your armor is worth more than theirs. A 1/3 is also a very strong turn 1 play that develops the board, unlike a 0/1.
I don't know how but i forgot to submit 10 cards. i only had 8 and i added another 2 just now, i hope that's alright. I'd hate to be disqualified on phase 1 for such a stupid mistake, which no one else pointed out btw.
You're good, I'm not too strict with this kind of stuff.
As other have said maybe it is a little too hero power-centric, almost your entire basic set revolves around it. I would also say orc agent is pretty weak without explosive round.
As for your positioning cards, I created a class last year with a "middlemost" gimmick as well so I will look forward to what you can think of.
@McF4rtson , I'm digging that Drone haha. I like how the class cards and HP all builds off of each other. But the power level looks a little funky to me. The Prophet is a Powershot that heals 6, and leaves a healing 2/2 behind. Metamorphosis is pretty bonkers--its a 4m 5/6 at a basic level. How do you choose between TFang modes?
Will tone down the prophet to leave a 1/1 behind.
It's pretty tough balancing metamorphosis since it requires a Larva, and if I place it at +4/+4, then that is just a chillwind yeti. I'll think about it.
Toxic Fangs just brings up a choose one menu if you have armor, otherwise, it just takes the mana.
here ^ is my basic card set (+ a few initiate but don’t look) and I’d love people’s feedback. I made a spiritwalker class 6 years ago and it was awful so I’m trying again!
Anima Infusion seems way too good, even if it doesn't give attack, that's 2 more stats over Power Infusion.
Ethereal Form, can't use Immune in Basic. Also interesting how your spiritwalker class uses Immune, I had the same concept with my Spiritwalker many years ago.
The class kinda feels like a priest but with northshire cleric turned from a minion into a general playstyle... I do see totems later on, so maybe it'll be a priest/shaman mix, who knows.
@Wintrmute I like the direction you are taking with this class but I don't think a necromancer flavor works best for it. I would go with an archeologist actually ! Also make sure to give the class a lot of card draw to make good use of the cards shuffled into your deck. Your hero power is a little bit too complicated imo, I'd look into a card draw or stabilization effect.
Hello everyone, I have a small question. I was tinkering with a custom class "Secret Agent" for some time and was going to upload it for a discussion and feedback. However I just noticed that this class already was created and made it to the finals of second custom class competition. Does that mean I can't make that class?
Question: Since the core set was introduced, most classes have fewer than 10 basic cards. How should we think about our basic set then? Should we be looking at pre-core card sets for guidance?
Secondly, I'm thinking of not using a keyword for my class. A lot of people seem to be using them, but I figure I can get around it somehow. I might even add a spell school, but that wouldn't really be very helpful given we can't actually use spell schools until later sets.
Long time no see, teknician.
So yeah the core set was a nightmare to plan around. I have used the first four weeks to simulate the arrival of our custom classes before the core set hits, so it'll be just like how DH was introduced. Week five, the core set is consolidated. Check the weekly details in the OP for more info.
I think the hero power is a lot better, but you might want to ask for some feedback on it, since summoning a taunt each turn might not be the most interactive way of playing. I think it isn't too bad though.
Underpriced blacksmith still needs a capitalized "Armor". I think Dynamite Shot is honestly a bit strong. You can keep most of the functionality by doing "Deal 3 damage to a minion. Deal 1 damage to all other enemy minions."
Explosive Enthusiast, check and then copy the wording on Despicable Dreadlord. Also, this means you have three low-damage AOE cards in your basic set. Possibly swapping one out is an idea.
Just checking here, Ritual is essentially Inspire but one time? If so, I think you should specify it is one-time, as Spellburst specifies it is one-time.
Not sure, is 3 mana 3/6 in stats a little too good in Carved Assistants?
Not a fan of the token generation in Deathnet Wand, as you do not need that token anywhere else in the basic set. Can you not just keep it simple and "When a friendly minion dies on your turn, refresh a mana crystal and lose 1 Durability"?
Yeah as other people have said, giving a minion Armor is a little strange since it is usually the same as just giving it Health. Your class doesn't seem to be healing minions a lot, so there isn't much difference. I think that is the first thing you should address, and if you do change this up, I'll give more feedback on your cards.
I like the new versions of the cards a lot better. The only thing now that remains is the cost changing which is never seen in Basic, but I suppose if you kept it through your revisions your class increases Cost of cards a lot.
I am a *little* scared about a 3 mana 4/3 charger. It will depend on how many cheap weapons your class gets.
I'm also looking at your other cards here, not a whole lot to say, it all looks solid. You do have a bunch of stuff that can hit your own minions, maybe adding a minion that benefits from that in your Basic will tighten it even further.
Currently at work, but I will be sure to go back and give feedback to those I skipped over.
@laurendor: yep a healing card is on its way, just need to think of a good one. The entire class is based on wow lore, I am doing an Aqir/Qiraji/Nerubian/Black Empire class
Hm. This Basic Set uses a lot of complex mechanics so I'm not too happy with it as a whole...
Specimen ###.###.###: So you chose to use one of the new keywords I tentatively allowed which is already a step into the unknown. Furthermore, this usage of the keyword is rather unintuitive for a new player, as they would have to look for the tiny enchantment banner underneath. And then there's the balance issue. This is essentially a defile, BUT... there's the intended interaction. You want to be able to chain the 1 damage to all when a minion dies, so you create a chain reaction, but how would you give a dying minion a deathrattle?
Plagueland Technician: So many keywords on a basic minion. Is the Spell Damage actually necessary? You only have a single card in your Basic Set that is even affected by Spell Damage.
Lingering Enfeeble: Not a fan of this card. The Basic Set is absolutely not the place to introduce new game mechanics.
Adverse Reaction and Touch of Slime: I would be careful with cost modifiers, there are no cost modifiers in Basic. Touch of Slime also seems a bit strong, as 4 mana deal 5 is already not terrible, but then you also throw off your opponent's curve for a turn, or disrupt their plays.
Slimepalooza: No. This is just a 5 mana Twisting Nether.
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Slapping an effect on a card or minor tweaks doesn't necessarily mean it is lazy or uninspired, after all, your unleash the whelps is basically the same as unleash the hounds. And I actually disagree with you, the basic set is not meant to be weak, it is meant to be simple. You wouldn't call fireball weak, blessing of kings weak, or holy nova weak.
I think at the end of the day, also being a player that knows every card and has been creating custom cards for honestly way too long lmao, it just so happens to be differing card design philosophies. I see the direction the game is heading in, much stronger cards (large powercreep like new Alex and illidari inquisitor vs king krush all the way to minor powercreep like spawnpool forager vs Murmy and possessed villager) more synergy between cards to the point of entire archetypes, that sort of thing. It comes down to knowing how far you can push your cards, the difference being your class will be mediocre in terms of power and may not have the tools to compete, vs you go too far, like what blizz did with DH. We shall see what the voters have to say, I suppose.
While a lot of your feedback is valid, the fact is that balance just isn't the same as it used to be. There has been a fair bit of powercreep over the last few expacs, so one-to-one comparisons are still useful, but not always the end all be all. If you use only old cards and don't take into consideration the current meta and card power levels, your class will be... "too fair".
Even Blizzard acknowledges this with their buffs to basic cards in the core set, and some of them still don't see play. Instead of using older cards as something set in stone, I would just look at the card and give it a sanity check. For example, excess chitin compared to iron hide. Iron hide saw absolutely 0 play and was printed many years ago, so it stands to reason excess chitin should cost 1 rather than 2, which would make it unplayable. Conversely, if you make it 4 armor, then you have to consider Armor Vendor. Yes it gives the opponent 4 armor as well, but giving a faster opponent 4 armor when you are trying to slow down their fast damage means your armor is worth more than theirs. A 1/3 is also a very strong turn 1 play that develops the board, unlike a 0/1.
That's two people saying this now :^)
You're good, I'm not too strict with this kind of stuff.
I am the only active mod, and I have an 8hr shift today. The cutoff times are an estimate and I try to follow them, but it won't always be the case.
As other have said maybe it is a little too hero power-centric, almost your entire basic set revolves around it. I would also say orc agent is pretty weak without explosive round.
As for your positioning cards, I created a class last year with a "middlemost" gimmick as well so I will look forward to what you can think of.
Yes there is a voting phase. Yes you may do 3-mana hero powers.
And yeah forgot about that typo, will fix it.
Will tone down the prophet to leave a 1/1 behind.
It's pretty tough balancing metamorphosis since it requires a Larva, and if I place it at +4/+4, then that is just a chillwind yeti. I'll think about it.
Toxic Fangs just brings up a choose one menu if you have armor, otherwise, it just takes the mana.
In the time I was gone, the discussion thread blew up so I honestly cannot tell who I have given feedback to or not so let me know if you want some.
In any case, I'm done my basic set and I'll leave it here for one final round of feedback.
The Vizier
Anima Infusion seems way too good, even if it doesn't give attack, that's 2 more stats over Power Infusion.
Ethereal Form, can't use Immune in Basic. Also interesting how your spiritwalker class uses Immune, I had the same concept with my Spiritwalker many years ago.
The class kinda feels like a priest but with northshire cleric turned from a minion into a general playstyle... I do see totems later on, so maybe it'll be a priest/shaman mix, who knows.
An archeologist won the competition before.
You can.
Long time no see, teknician.
So yeah the core set was a nightmare to plan around. I have used the first four weeks to simulate the arrival of our custom classes before the core set hits, so it'll be just like how DH was introduced. Week five, the core set is consolidated. Check the weekly details in the OP for more info.
You have some typos:
You needed a bolded "Hero Power" on your hero power, check in-game ones.
Halt Intruders has a typo.
Protective Field needs a capitalized Armor.
Water Warden's -2 *Attack* needs to be capitalized. It is still a weaker Shrinkmeister. And try using this art: https://i.imgur.com/MLhdKx9.jpeg
I think the hero power is a lot better, but you might want to ask for some feedback on it, since summoning a taunt each turn might not be the most interactive way of playing. I think it isn't too bad though.
Underpriced blacksmith still needs a capitalized "Armor".
I think Dynamite Shot is honestly a bit strong. You can keep most of the functionality by doing "Deal 3 damage to a minion. Deal 1 damage to all other enemy minions."
Explosive Enthusiast, check and then copy the wording on Despicable Dreadlord. Also, this means you have three low-damage AOE cards in your basic set. Possibly swapping one out is an idea.
Just checking here, Ritual is essentially Inspire but one time? If so, I think you should specify it is one-time, as Spellburst specifies it is one-time.
Not sure, is 3 mana 3/6 in stats a little too good in Carved Assistants?
Not a fan of the token generation in Deathnet Wand, as you do not need that token anywhere else in the basic set. Can you not just keep it simple and "When a friendly minion dies on your turn, refresh a mana crystal and lose 1 Durability"?
Yeah as other people have said, giving a minion Armor is a little strange since it is usually the same as just giving it Health. Your class doesn't seem to be healing minions a lot, so there isn't much difference. I think that is the first thing you should address, and if you do change this up, I'll give more feedback on your cards.
I like the new versions of the cards a lot better. The only thing now that remains is the cost changing which is never seen in Basic, but I suppose if you kept it through your revisions your class increases Cost of cards a lot.
Tanarian Scorpion: Just a bit of syntax/wording: Should be "Give your weapon XYZ this turn."
I'm pretty nervous about the crossbow. I would try to balance it against Stormhammer.
Silk Bandages, probably needs to heal for 7.
Other than that, I think this is a very solid start!
I am a *little* scared about a 3 mana 4/3 charger. It will depend on how many cheap weapons your class gets.
I'm also looking at your other cards here, not a whole lot to say, it all looks solid. You do have a bunch of stuff that can hit your own minions, maybe adding a minion that benefits from that in your Basic will tighten it even further.
Currently at work, but I will be sure to go back and give feedback to those I skipped over.
@laurendor: yep a healing card is on its way, just need to think of a good one. The entire class is based on wow lore, I am doing an Aqir/Qiraji/Nerubian/Black Empire class
Hm. This Basic Set uses a lot of complex mechanics so I'm not too happy with it as a whole...
Specimen ###.###.###: So you chose to use one of the new keywords I tentatively allowed which is already a step into the unknown. Furthermore, this usage of the keyword is rather unintuitive for a new player, as they would have to look for the tiny enchantment banner underneath. And then there's the balance issue. This is essentially a defile, BUT... there's the intended interaction. You want to be able to chain the 1 damage to all when a minion dies, so you create a chain reaction, but how would you give a dying minion a deathrattle?
Plagueland Technician: So many keywords on a basic minion. Is the Spell Damage actually necessary? You only have a single card in your Basic Set that is even affected by Spell Damage.
Lingering Enfeeble: Not a fan of this card. The Basic Set is absolutely not the place to introduce new game mechanics.
Adverse Reaction and Touch of Slime: I would be careful with cost modifiers, there are no cost modifiers in Basic. Touch of Slime also seems a bit strong, as 4 mana deal 5 is already not terrible, but then you also throw off your opponent's curve for a turn, or disrupt their plays.
Slimepalooza: No. This is just a 5 mana Twisting Nether.