I agree with nerfing Argent Braggart, but that's about it.
Guardian Animals can't be nerfed, it's also a hunter card and it's not a problem there at all. If this needs nerfed I think the target is Twilight Runner. I think Overgrowth would be a really lame card at 5 mana too. Barely better than Nourish at that point. Solarion Prime is strong but requires a ton of investment. I think the mage spell pool in general is a bigger problem, and Solarion Prime is another card that would just be kinda limp at 4 cards.
The Blastmaster Boom nerf is lame. That's really arbitrary. While it's a powerful card, I'd probably hit bomb warrior somewhere else. The wrenchcalibur nerf is a little more sensible I think, though that makes the card pretty weak in anything that's not strictly bomb warrior. The Demon Hunter nerfs seem totally unnecessary to me. So does Greyheart Sage. You could probably nerf it's stats a little. (2/3? 3/2?) But I think increasing it's cost really kills the card.
Shaman buffs might be okay, I think buffing Tidal Wave would be a huge mistake. But the Nithogg buff seems all right to me. The main problem with that is the card is cycling in six months, so I dunno if it's worth it. Vashj is fine.
Also yeah I'd like them to just kill Tortollan mage. I'm really not a fan of those sort of degenerative combo decks that just grind you out. There either needs to be more counterplay besides crummy tech cards, or they need to kill the deck.
I'm surprised it's only really Braggart you agree with seeing as Paladin is less powerful than the other decks targeted, if that was the only nerf paladin would struggle more if other decks left the same. I obviously do think Braggart does need a slight nerf though.
Druid is oppressive right now when it draws well, which is often. Fair point on GA being a hunter card though hadn't considered that. I do think it's the ramp that needs targeting and it can't be Wild Growth. Using Wild growth as an example though, if 3 mana is worth 1 mana ramp overgrowth is obviously under costed at 4 mana. I think 5 mana is very reasonable in that case.
As mentioned looking at HSreplay at some bomb warrior decks, Blastmaster Boom literally has a 77%+ played win rate, that's insane I don't think I've seen anything as high nor can I find any looking now. Seems like a pretty obvious nerf candidate to target bomb warrior.
I don't think Tidal Wave will ever see serious play at 8 mana.
Mage: Change Tortollan Pilgrim so that it casts the spell from the deck (removing it from the deck in the process) instead of casting a copy.
Combined with Potion of Illusion and Frost Nova, Tortollan Pilgrim makes the game 100% uninteractable for the opponent. It's not just that it's powerful. It's not just that it's annoying. It's that it makes the game literally unplayable for one of the players, and at that point it ceases to be a game. You can either concede or wait for the inevitable, but either way, you're not going to get a chance to play the game anymore that match. And that just feels lousy.
Pilgrim + Potion is a cool interaction, and sets you up to cheat some more mana. That's fine. But infinite Pilgrim + infinite Potion is bad for the game.
If Tortollan would remove from deck so should all other cards like Druid Guardian Spell with rush remove the minnions from deck.
I don't agree that every interaction should be homogenized. For example, Dimensional Ripper summons copies of Warrior minions, and at 10 mana (with no reliable way for Warrior to cheat it out early), that feels appropriately powerful. Pulling these minions from the deck would be a substantial (and, I would argue, unwarranted) nerf to this card, especially since the only deck it's used in also runs Commencement, and that DOES pull from the deck. I've run into several situations where my Rippers have nothing to copy, because I've already drawn/Commenced all the minions from my deck. Making Dimension Ripper thin the deck would make things much worse.
On the other hand, Tortollan Pilgrim has to be judged in the context of the Mage spells it can pull. Before Potion of Illusion, it wasn't an issue, since it couldn't reliably generate infinite copies of itself (let alone 1-mana copies!). Blizzard recently changed Discover cards to disallow them from discovering themselves, and I would argue that the Pilgrim/Potion interaction is philosophically the same as (or at the least, VERY similar to) "discovering itself," leading to anti-fun "gameplay." I put "gameplay" in quotes, because as I mentioned before, it effectively prevents the other player from playing the game.
The only counters I can think of are Living Dragonbreath (to get around the Freeze portion and allow minion usage) and Flik Skyshiv. The Dragonbreath only works if you have it in hand, and even then it only addresses the Frost Nova aspect. Flik is a class card, which is nice for Rogue, but doesn't help any of the other classes.
Yeah I’d forgotten about turtle mage, it’s a bit under the radar I think as it doesn’t see as much play as other decks but yeah probably will need addressing. If they nerfed old freeze mage for being uninteractive it makes sense that this will be the same
I agree nerfs are needed, but I barely agree even with shaman.
Druid - Overgrowth to 5, yes. Remove rush from Guardians spell is even better.
Mage - Sorcerer's Apprentice can't reduce below 1, I don't know what turtle mage does, I kill them before.
DH - Lapi to 4, 4/4, give +4. That's it, enough with the DH nerfs, the class needa its day.
Warrior - Wrench to BC and DR, or bombs down to 3 dmg. Agree with Boom bots.
Paladin - braggart to 3 is fine, but Libram 'NOW' in deck and hand only get reduction is better (lady shouldn't create 0 mana cheat spells)
Rogue - Really, you want more? Finally we have a three decks that work without superior mana cheats.
Shaman - none agreed, because OL 1 means 'this card should cost the OL amount more'.
Elemental is a mage spell on a 2/2, should cost 3. Portal is Lightning bolt (which is ok as is) + 3-cost, so 4-cost is fine. Tidal wave is a killer. But, both Forked Lightning and Lightning storm should be OL 1, Earth elemental at OL 2. We need the basic/classic fixed, not some set cards.
Still, a better nerf post than the utter most.
Your change to Sorcerer's Apprentice would I expect literally kill any variant of tempo mage, it's pretty much the whole deck popping off with combos.
I was considering Wrench BC or DR too but then does that make weapon removal worse?
Agree with Lapi, the introduction of Marrowslicer though makes Blade Dance a 2 mana clear the board. Seems too good for me personally.
For rogue I think it's nearly fine but a 3 mana 3/3 draw 2 it absurd. The power the deck gains from this combo on curve is too much for most decks to contest seeing as the deck is mostly just face burn. If we use your Shaman example "Elemental is a mage spell on a 2/2, should cost 3" then Greyheart Sage is a mage spell with a 0 mana 3/3 body. That would then by your own argument need overload, correct? (Obviously it won't get overload as that's a Shaman mechanic, but should be a higher mana cost is my argument).
I do see your point with the Shaman cards though, the only thing is they're not played in their current state.
Druid card really need nerf, 2 manas ramp for only 4 manas and the most powerful 7 manas card in this game history in the next turn is way OP.
Nerf to 5 manas solve this problem.
I'm actually quite surprised they've left overgrowth/GA as it is currently. It's hella fun to play and the deck has great synergy but it's very hard to counter. Especially if Overflow is in hand to follow it up.
Other than Serpentshrine Portal, the shaman cards I picked see 0 play currently, that's why I chose them. It's also the only class not to feature in GM so far and sits around 40% win rate. There's no intended bias other than to bring it back into viability, do you disagree?
I don't like any of these ideas, I don't think your reasoning is good enough and that don't understand the seismic changes that would ensue
It feels like a list of everything that you've lost to the last 10 games you played, so you put it on the list
That's fine, which one(s) do you disagree with? I've intended to go after the strongest variations of decks right now, as seen from hsreplay and GM. As mentioned in the OP I play tempo mage mostly which I included in the list of nerfs.
I would nerf these type of posts and the people that whine over and over and over...
"How long can this go on?..."
See, that's where I disagree with you - respectfully. A post like this seems well thought out and earnest (not all do). I like hearing people theorize about how to improve the game.
*EDIT: Doesn't mean I agree/disagree with his ideas, just that I value well thought out theorizing.
Did I overreact a bit? yes, could my response have been nicer? absolutely yes. But the post is just a big opinion, backed up by nothing.
"I just feel like X, it doesn't feel right, my opponent played decent cards, NERFS!" If he wants to be taken serious he should put some data [Vicioussyndicate is great for that or premium HSReplay].
I bet most of those deck barely reach 50% win rate, yet he ask for nerfs -.-
The answer is yes, you're completely overreacting.
If you think these decks barely reach 50% win rate, you're obviously not playing the game. The nerfs in the OP are aimed at the strongest decks in the game right now, with the intention of bringing the other classes and variants into higher contention.
The cards targeted are the outliers in these decks and they're all quite minor. With your logic, we'd have no balance changes at all.
I would nerf these type of posts and the people that whine over and over and over...
"How long can this go on?..."
It wasn't intended as a whine thread but rather a constructive one for people's thoughts. There's nothing wrong with speculating on future balance changes, that's the benefit of having a digital card game.
So after a few weeks since the latest balance changes, what other changes would people like to see?
I've got a few in mind personally, would be interesting see people's thoughts.
Overgrowth nerfed to 5 mana. Coin/Innervate/Nature Studies Wildgrowth into Overgrowth into GA is pretty toxic and feels like the game can be auto loss for the opponent. This delays GA by an additional turn and gives other classes a chance to establish more of a threat before the big ramp comes.
Consider nerfing GA or Overflow to 8 mana but see how overgrowth nerf works first. GA value is nutty.
Solarian Prime reduced to casting 4 cards. Honestly busted and saying this as a mostly tempo mage main. Watching any streamer or tournament shows the value of this card especially when it hits box or potion.
Consider making it harder to get prime from Primordial Studies.
Nithogg reduced to 5 mana, it's just so hard to get this card off, turn 6 onwards feels too late.
Eye of the Storm reduced cost to 8 mana but also reduced stats of the elementals. Overload reduced to 2 mana.
The prime feels a bit underwhelming relative to the others so possible buffed in some way here.
Ultimately needs a new card that gives some card draw.
I hate Priest with a passion but I think that's more it's general random discover playstyle rather than specific cards. I'm not currently sure if anything should be changed with this deck that doesn't gut it.
Similarly I'd love to reduce face hunter power slightly but no single card seems too powerful, it just synergises well. Freezing Trap should be hall of famed, maybe reduced attack to 4 on the Felmaw. Maybe Dwarven sharpshooter to a 1/2 but then might never see play. Unsure on this one.
Unfortunately I feel the dust refund makes Blizzard much more hesitant nerfing cards and many of the cards I've highlighted are high dust so probably unlikely it would be so many cards.