That's ok. Next up is people complaining about how Zilliax and Sn1p-Sn4p gets discovered far too often and will call for another nerf because Warrior is too hard to play against.
Basically the same people defending the Discover change will not be happy and keep complaining. I would rather have Omega Devastator keep getting discovered instead of Zilliax because good luck killing a Warrior with healing and more healing.
And I have been playing Hearthstone from the start. The amount of RNG and random cards was a very small percentage of the game. Now, its an accepted part of the game. Because players did not voice their concerns loud enough, this is the players fault for allowing such things to go unspoken and pretend its good for the health of the game.
There is a give and take. You reduce consistency, you will increase randomness. I understand the 'intent' of the change, but the end result is undesirable for those that don't want more random cards in Hearthstone. Discover was the one mechanism that gave you some control over the cards and required some skill testing because you purposely built your deck to include these cards knowing that class cards are 'MORE' likely to be discovered. It is NOT 100% so I don't understand why it needed to be changed. If it was automatically a class card, then I would argue and agree with you.
It's the same idea with card draw cards. You know you are going to draw a card that you put into your deck. That is 100% going to happen, except you can't control what card it will be. That is normalized randomness in the game that is acceptable for card games.
No one can argue that this change will make the game more random, can you? So are you willing to accept more randomness because the 'consistency' of Discovering a class card was so oppressive?
As I said before, if those numbers are correct regarding Flunky, how is a 50% to get a warrior taunt card broken? Here is the thing though, the more taunts that are added, the less consistent.
I am baffled at how many on these forums complain about 'bad RNG' and then when an obvious change makes Discover 'bad RNG' that people are ok with this.
No Discover card EVER gave you 100% to get the card you want (except maybe Zephrys). Nor would I want it to do that. What I am asking for is playing a card knowing I have a larger chance to Discover a class card. That's why people play Discover cards in tournaments, for the power level of the cards.
So instead of Blizzard and the Devs admitting that they make powerful class cards that maybe shouldn't be created, instead they nerf every single card that was played for that single purpose.
I stubbed my toe on my dresser. Instead of me moving the dresser so its not in my walking path, I am going to remove all dressers from my house. That'll fix the problem. I mean it will, I won't stub my toe anymore. I also don't have any dressers in my house.
I guess that's a lose-lose for the Hearthstone community. Even if you don't see it.
I know many are happy about the Discover changes, but I think it's a huge mistake. The whole point of Discover cards was to get something in your class more often than not. It wasn't always a sure thing, but playing the card meant you weren't getting complete random garbage from Discover cards.
Why are people happy about this? This turns Discover cards into RNG factories and the whole point of Discover was to eliminate the purely random stuff that can win or lose you games because you 'got lucky' or 'unlucky'.
More randomness is NOT needed in Hearthstone. This really takes the skill testing and playing around 'known' cards that the Discover cards could fetch for you. Now you can' t play around anything.
And before anyone makes a comment regarding me playing Control Warrior...I do. But I also play ALL of the classes fairly evenly. I jump around based on my mood. I have over 500 wins with all the classes, so before those comments flare up, just wanted to negate that.
Do you want your Hearthstone game to be more RNG and less thinking or playing around known cards? There are so many ways to play around what Control Warrior does. Sure, they can get 10 Omega Devastator's in the game. I can still beat them with other decks.
This is exactly like the nerf to Tess. They specifically stated that Tess would work like the pre-nerf Yogg. They boasted this fact and showed it on stream. Then they nerfed Tess to be exactly like post-nerf Yogg completely killing the power level of the card. They had to revert back to the pre-nerf Tess because not only did people complain (rightly so), they said it was going to work a specific way because they designed it that way. To go back on that is terrible.
Discover cards were and are specifically designed FROM THE BEGINNING to get you class cards more often. It's why you play them. Getting complete random crap drastically weakens the card. Weakens the skill testing of your opponent and weakens the game of Hearthstone overall.
People who are happy with this change do not realize this has lasting impacts far beyond nerfing Control Warrior. This is terrible for the game and goes completely against what Discover was supposed to represent.
If these numbers are correct....
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
Then this is not a simple tweak to power levels of cards. This is a huge nerf that they tried to sneak into the patch without drawing attention to it. This is disingenuous and there are so many ways to 'fix' the cards people are unhappy with, but instead, they nerfed all of the Discover cards (that used to pull from class cards).
How can anyone look at the numbers above and think....'That's fine. Nothing to see here. At least Warrior gets hosed.'
Can someone explain to me how they think more RNG is good for Hearthstone?
Thank you!
I feel the same. They are changing a basic rule because certain ROTATING cards are too strong in the CURRENT standard meta. This is just dumb.
Before anyone says "CW player spotted" I play more Power of Creation than Frightened Flunky, so I should feel lucky for the buff. But on the long run, and also in wild this is a bad change IMO.
People who argue things like 'CW player' because of a complaint are not too swift in the head if that's your only argument. It would be like saying someone who hates smoking or smokers, must have lung cancer. Yeah, real sound argument here.
The argument should be centered around not what decks people are playing, but that a core mechanism in Hearthstone has drastically changed and the devs tried to hide it.
How do you fix Discover without gutting it. you ask?
Some others have already suggested some of these ideas, so I won't take credit for all of them.
1. Discover a card not in your deck or your hand. The word implies that you are finding something new. I would keep the class favortism, but no more getting 5 Omega Devastators in the game if you have it in your deck or hand. This is how you balance Discover without gutting it and making it unplayable and RNG BS.
2. Discover cards that didnt start in your deck. Since the game engine is capable of identifying what 'start of the game' means, you can check to see if your deck contains specific cards. If your deck does contain Flunky, then you cannot Discover another Flunky with either if you play 2 in the deck.
3. Discover a card that has not been played at all during the game so far. If a Flunky has been played, then you cannot get a Flunky.
Discover should be exciting and with any of the ideas above, could even change how people build decks. You know, make people have to think about their plays and their deck building. Something that RNG does not allow you to do.
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
In fairness, those numbers were always subject to change based upon the available card pool.
Of course, as in Wild the card pool is so much larger that you will not get another Flunky at the same rates. And as more cards are legal in Standard, that will also change. Regardless, it doesn't address the blatant disregard for the Discover mechanic in general. It doesn't reward you for playing smart. Now it's all random. Now the above numbers mean nothing as everything is equally likely. Great.
I know many are happy about the Discover changes, but I think it's a huge mistake. The whole point of Discover cards was to get something in your class more often than not. It wasn't always a sure thing, but playing the card meant you weren't getting complete random garbage from Discover cards.
Why are people happy about this? This turns Discover cards into RNG factories and the whole point of Discover was to eliminate the purely random stuff that can win or lose you games because you 'got lucky' or 'unlucky'.
More randomness is NOT needed in Hearthstone. This really takes the skill testing and playing around 'known' cards that the Discover cards could fetch for you. Now you can' t play around anything.
And before anyone makes a comment regarding me playing Control Warrior...I do. But I also play ALL of the classes fairly evenly. I jump around based on my mood. I have over 500 wins with all the classes, so before those comments flare up, just wanted to negate that.
Do you want your Hearthstone game to be more RNG and less thinking or playing around known cards? There are so many ways to play around what Control Warrior does. Sure, they can get 10 Omega Devastator's in the game. I can still beat them with other decks.
This is exactly like the nerf to Tess. They specifically stated that Tess would work like the pre-nerf Yogg. They boasted this fact and showed it on stream. Then they nerfed Tess to be exactly like post-nerf Yogg completely killing the power level of the card. They had to revert back to the pre-nerf Tess because not only did people complain (rightly so), they said it was going to work a specific way because they designed it that way. To go back on that is terrible.
Discover cards were and are specifically designed FROM THE BEGINNING to get you class cards more often. It's why you play them. Getting complete random crap drastically weakens the card. Weakens the skill testing of your opponent and weakens the game of Hearthstone overall.
People who are happy with this change do not realize this has lasting impacts far beyond nerfing Control Warrior. This is terrible for the game and goes completely against what Discover was supposed to represent.
If these numbers are correct....
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc. Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
Then this is not a simple tweak to power levels of cards. This is a huge nerf that they tried to sneak into the patch without drawing attention to it. This is disingenuous and there are so many ways to 'fix' the cards people are unhappy with, but instead, they nerfed all of the Discover cards (that used to pull from class cards).
How can anyone look at the numbers above and think....'That's fine. Nothing to see here. At least Warrior gets hosed.'
Can someone explain to me how they think more RNG is good for Hearthstone?
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That's ok. Next up is people complaining about how Zilliax and Sn1p-Sn4p gets discovered far too often and will call for another nerf because Warrior is too hard to play against.
Basically the same people defending the Discover change will not be happy and keep complaining. I would rather have Omega Devastator keep getting discovered instead of Zilliax because good luck killing a Warrior with healing and more healing.
And I have been playing Hearthstone from the start. The amount of RNG and random cards was a very small percentage of the game. Now, its an accepted part of the game. Because players did not voice their concerns loud enough, this is the players fault for allowing such things to go unspoken and pretend its good for the health of the game.
There is a give and take. You reduce consistency, you will increase randomness. I understand the 'intent' of the change, but the end result is undesirable for those that don't want more random cards in Hearthstone. Discover was the one mechanism that gave you some control over the cards and required some skill testing because you purposely built your deck to include these cards knowing that class cards are 'MORE' likely to be discovered. It is NOT 100% so I don't understand why it needed to be changed. If it was automatically a class card, then I would argue and agree with you.
It's the same idea with card draw cards. You know you are going to draw a card that you put into your deck. That is 100% going to happen, except you can't control what card it will be. That is normalized randomness in the game that is acceptable for card games.
No one can argue that this change will make the game more random, can you? So are you willing to accept more randomness because the 'consistency' of Discovering a class card was so oppressive?
As I said before, if those numbers are correct regarding Flunky, how is a 50% to get a warrior taunt card broken? Here is the thing though, the more taunts that are added, the less consistent.
I am baffled at how many on these forums complain about 'bad RNG' and then when an obvious change makes Discover 'bad RNG' that people are ok with this.
No Discover card EVER gave you 100% to get the card you want (except maybe Zephrys). Nor would I want it to do that. What I am asking for is playing a card knowing I have a larger chance to Discover a class card. That's why people play Discover cards in tournaments, for the power level of the cards.
So instead of Blizzard and the Devs admitting that they make powerful class cards that maybe shouldn't be created, instead they nerf every single card that was played for that single purpose.
I stubbed my toe on my dresser. Instead of me moving the dresser so its not in my walking path, I am going to remove all dressers from my house. That'll fix the problem. I mean it will, I won't stub my toe anymore. I also don't have any dressers in my house.
I guess that's a lose-lose for the Hearthstone community. Even if you don't see it.
People who argue things like 'CW player' because of a complaint are not too swift in the head if that's your only argument. It would be like saying someone who hates smoking or smokers, must have lung cancer. Yeah, real sound argument here.
The argument should be centered around not what decks people are playing, but that a core mechanism in Hearthstone has drastically changed and the devs tried to hide it.
How do you fix Discover without gutting it. you ask?
Some others have already suggested some of these ideas, so I won't take credit for all of them.
1. Discover a card not in your deck or your hand. The word implies that you are finding something new. I would keep the class favortism, but no more getting 5 Omega Devastators in the game if you have it in your deck or hand. This is how you balance Discover without gutting it and making it unplayable and RNG BS.
2. Discover cards that didnt start in your deck. Since the game engine is capable of identifying what 'start of the game' means, you can check to see if your deck contains specific cards. If your deck does contain Flunky, then you cannot Discover another Flunky with either if you play 2 in the deck.
3. Discover a card that has not been played at all during the game so far. If a Flunky has been played, then you cannot get a Flunky.
Discover should be exciting and with any of the ideas above, could even change how people build decks. You know, make people have to think about their plays and their deck building. Something that RNG does not allow you to do.
Of course, as in Wild the card pool is so much larger that you will not get another Flunky at the same rates. And as more cards are legal in Standard, that will also change. Regardless, it doesn't address the blatant disregard for the Discover mechanic in general. It doesn't reward you for playing smart. Now it's all random. Now the above numbers mean nothing as everything is equally likely. Great.
I know many are happy about the Discover changes, but I think it's a huge mistake. The whole point of Discover cards was to get something in your class more often than not. It wasn't always a sure thing, but playing the card meant you weren't getting complete random garbage from Discover cards.
Why are people happy about this? This turns Discover cards into RNG factories and the whole point of Discover was to eliminate the purely random stuff that can win or lose you games because you 'got lucky' or 'unlucky'.
More randomness is NOT needed in Hearthstone. This really takes the skill testing and playing around 'known' cards that the Discover cards could fetch for you. Now you can' t play around anything.
And before anyone makes a comment regarding me playing Control Warrior...I do. But I also play ALL of the classes fairly evenly. I jump around based on my mood. I have over 500 wins with all the classes, so before those comments flare up, just wanted to negate that.
Do you want your Hearthstone game to be more RNG and less thinking or playing around known cards? There are so many ways to play around what Control Warrior does. Sure, they can get 10 Omega Devastator's in the game. I can still beat them with other decks.
This is exactly like the nerf to Tess. They specifically stated that Tess would work like the pre-nerf Yogg. They boasted this fact and showed it on stream. Then they nerfed Tess to be exactly like post-nerf Yogg completely killing the power level of the card. They had to revert back to the pre-nerf Tess because not only did people complain (rightly so), they said it was going to work a specific way because they designed it that way. To go back on that is terrible.
Discover cards were and are specifically designed FROM THE BEGINNING to get you class cards more often. It's why you play them. Getting complete random crap drastically weakens the card. Weakens the skill testing of your opponent and weakens the game of Hearthstone overall.
People who are happy with this change do not realize this has lasting impacts far beyond nerfing Control Warrior. This is terrible for the game and goes completely against what Discover was supposed to represent.
If these numbers are correct....
According to Old Guardian it went from 16.29% to 4.26% for discovery drone to get a specific Omega Devastator, etc.
Flunky went from 53.72% to get a warrior taunt (Flunky/Armegadillo) to 19.10%.
Then this is not a simple tweak to power levels of cards. This is a huge nerf that they tried to sneak into the patch without drawing attention to it. This is disingenuous and there are so many ways to 'fix' the cards people are unhappy with, but instead, they nerfed all of the Discover cards (that used to pull from class cards).
How can anyone look at the numbers above and think....'That's fine. Nothing to see here. At least Warrior gets hosed.'
Can someone explain to me how they think more RNG is good for Hearthstone?