Hearthpwn

Quote from SlydE >>

It is a gamechanger for dusting, yes. I'll think about if something should change, but crafting a card you will actually play has a value which should be considered vs. the risk of dusting something which MIGHT be buffed in the future, especially going ftp.

I knew you would say that and I completely agree with you. I would also dust unwanted legendaries to craft the cards I want to play atm. I wouldn't wait patiently until the next buff patch arrives, but instead I would enjoy the deck I desired to play.

But such a warning would be useful for new or returning players to see. Veterans wouldn't be aware, that a buff patch will happen soon and new players won't know that this thing is super rare. Imagine that in a few months from now someone joins hs (again) and wonders whether they should dust an underwhelming legendary. Knowing that a card could be potentially buffed one day is a factor worth considering.

@ Slyde

Soo uhm what's your opinion on the upcoming buff changes? Is this a reason to write a warning in the OP stating that people should be cautious when dusting weak cards? I know, I know - we can't predict which cards will get this treatment or when we will see this again (either next expansion, in a year from now or it might take longer than that), but the news about enhancing old and weak cards came out of nowhere and some users regret dusting their legendaries. I saw you put some plus signs near the affected cards, but I meant if you could warn the users to be careful in the future.

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

Just to be clear, I haven't had great success with a deck like that in standard.  I know Firebat created one dubbed "Hakkar warlock" on day 1 of the expansion but has since declared it less than competitive once the meta got itself together

However, I believe I have enough experience with the concept to say dollmaster would belong this theoretical deck if it did exist (with support from later sets perhaps?).  In other words, you probably don't want to craft him if you're planning to play in standard only unless you really don't mind losing

Bro, let me show you my most beloved deck ever:

and tell you, that I don't mind playing in wild. When RR launched, the standard meta became kinda dull for me, so I wanted to try out something different in the eternal format and I had a blast. If RoS causes the same experience for me, I will move to wild again (maybe just to reach r5 and to goof around from there onwards). I read your previous comments, so I'm not blindly taking your advice. I still haven't crafted him yet. Today I opened Commander Rhyssa from a pack, so I will try to open more, until I get a desired legendary. Hopefully I will open Fel Lord Betrug, so that I can craft Dorian imediatelly afterwards. I will craft both of them, if this isn't the case.

Again, thx for your comments. Please, don't worry about my dust investments in niche legendaries. Sometimes I ask for people's advice, when I'm not sure how satisfied I will be with the fun factor. I remember asking the same question for Chameleos and people told me, that the meme factor was worth it. I crafted it and I don't regret it. It's really funny, when I manage to surprise my opponents my their strong cards. So yeah.

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

Quote from Kovachut >>

As for Betrug - I actually want to open him. He seems like a fun inclusion and I'm a fan of the Plot Twist archtype despite not being a strong one atm. Imho it will increase in popularity and in power, when warlock gets a mid-game AoE. One question though - how essential is Dollmaster Dorian in that deck? I don't know if I want to craft him just to include him in a single deck-list.

It depends on how all-in your deck is on the Belrug synergy.  Dollmaster is almost a better Belrug in standard so unless you're running Belrug for the rush minions board clear value, you'd want Dollmaster in your deck for sure.  He's less essential for something like a wild deathrattle deck but at the same time, I'd highly recommend including Dorian anyway for the fun factor.  Doing the combo is fun and he increases consistency 

Hey, thx for the comment. I'm a person, who always loves playing fun decks and since you think the Dollmaster is worth the inclusion in this regard, then I will certainly craft him soon.

Quote from SlydE >>

Please note that the winrate plummits at higher levels, and that deck is really not played in Legend. Unfortuntaely, Wild is not played enough to trust the data 100%.

I don't think the deck should be compared to SA druid, which had much more consistant ways of pulling off its combos.

Yeah, I know, but according to hsreplay 4100 games have been recorded featuring this deck, so those stats give some kind of a valuable information, don't they?

I'm not comparing DH warlock to SA druid and I also think, that it's a dumb deck, which is heavily reliant on highrolls to work, but maybe people will find a more refined list in the near future (or in another expansion) and players could start complaining about the cheesy turns. Dunno; as far as I recall, Naga lock also had an average win-rate, but the deck caused some frustrating moments and the devs decided to nerf the combo enabler.

Quote from dps_kane >>

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

I crafted Betrug for wild and I don't regret it.  He's extremely good in cubelock as you can pull him out with voidcaller or skull.  Sense demons is something you play in wild cubelock anyway and plot twist doesn't hurt it much.  Unlike in standard, he has a lot of powerful pulls: doomguards have charge instead of rush, voidcaller and voidlord have deathrattles.  Wild has a lot of other powerful deathrattles you can experiment with like Sylvanas.  You can also cube something instead of letting it die at the end of turn.  The deck took me to rank 5 today

I've seen him played in the darkest hour deck too.  I don't think darkest hour warlock is strictly superior to cubelock either.  If you don't highroll an early combo and miss pulling your neurbian unraveler, an AOE can wipe out all your threats.  Unlike big priest, you can't res your big dudes and once they're gone, they're gone.  A non-greedy cubelock also has much better consistency; the darkest hour deck is prone to a lot of bad hands.  Remember nagalock back in the day?  Naga is a one card combo but this new one is 3 cards to combo on 5 or 2 cards to combo later

 He does not really fit well into DH. I haven't seen much DH, but more and more pro wild players get convinced that DH is actually really strong. Consistency is the main problem. Less consistent than star aligner druid, but it can go off sooner.
I am confident we will find the deck in tier 1 in the next VS wild report. And the one after that it might be tier S.
One of the main reason it might be underperforming is that the deck is not yet well refined (like people putting betrug in it), but it will get there. if you have BB and DH in your hand at some point, match is probably over (because you have also so many 1/1 demon generator-cards, you do not really need to fish for them and you can sometimes play them on curve as well, possibly getting your combo one turn earlier if your opponent does not deal with the board).

I also believe now more and more that we will see a nerf. My guess is bloodbloom. Just a matter of time.

If you go to the following link

https://hsreplay.net/decks/aAHdZVNeOPqZFe9PUYrNSb/#gameType=RANKED_WILD

you will see that the current popular deck is not runnning Fel Lord Betrug and has almost 60% win-rate. I also think, that Bloodbloom is the main offender here, but nerfing it will affect Mecha'thun warlock far more than DH imho.

[edit] I find it kinda funny, that people dismissed Bloodbloom back in the days. Yeah, I know that warlock was non-existent in JtU due to the lack of good healing options (and, no, the Medivh combo wasn't good enough) and there was no need for mana cheat until TBP, but the spell bore a lot of potential and it just needed some time, before people could find the best use for it.

As for Betrug - I actually want to open him. He seems like a fun inclusion and I'm a fan of the Plot Twist archtype despite not being a strong one atm. Imho it will increase in popularity and in power, when warlock gets a mid-game AoE. One question though - how essential is Dollmaster Dorian in that deck? I don't know if I want to craft him just to include him in a single deck-list.

Quote from Superkowboj1 >>

The Boom Reaver is playable and is a great pull from Omega Assembly, but I don't think anyone should craft him, just like Emeriss, good when generated, bad anywhere else. Tier 3-4 maybe?

Yeah, I'm also wondering about that high rating. Is there a deck, where The Boom Reaver is being used (outside wild recruit warrior probably)?

 Halazzi, the Lynx - Playable in faster hunter decks, staple in quest hunter.

I have a small question. You probably put Halazzi in the tier 3 category because of quest hunter, right? Because if we forget about this quest for a minute (I don't have it in my collection), how useful is Halazzi in reality? According to hsreplay he has a very low play win-rate.

https://hsreplay.net/cards/#text=halazzi

So I have been trying to make my wild Steal Priest memeier. What's your opinion on Chameleos?

He is marked as tier 4 (aka niche), but this isn't important to me. I only care about the fun aspect.

Thx all for the replies but I will write another post if the admin doesn't mind. I probably shouldn't post, since I already got my answers, but I will do it nevertheless. If someone finds it annoying, they can always ignore it. :)

Quote from Cptawesome >>

Also not unimportant, dr Boom decks are hella fun. 

Yes, I know. But the main reason to craft Dr. Boom, Mad Genius was to play mech decks in the first place and since most of the mechs are kinda crappy/slow in standard, I wanted to try out a Mech Deathrattle deck in wild, which features both the hero card and Sneed's Old Shredder. And I will finally be able to use Gorillabot A-3 in my decks as well, which I waited for a very long time to do it.

Compare the standard list vs the wild one and see what I mean.

The odd warrior control list looks fun, but it doesn't concentrate on the hero card, but rather on the controlling strategy. And don't get me wrong, I respect control warr as a competitive deck, but I didn't aim to create myself yet another ladder deck. I bolded a specific sentence in the previous post, claiming that I'm looking for something more casual.

No one should try to convince me, that dust-wise it's way better to aim for the secure deck and the secure components. I was aware from the start, that I could craft high-tier legendaries and be able to create various competitive and semi-competitive decks with them. But I'm threw with the ladder. I don't really care that much about my competitive games and how much I will succeed in ranked. I just want to have fun.

Some consider Valeera the Hollow to be a slow, low-impactful card and thus a low-tier legendary. Despite this, I crafted her in KoFT mainly because I wanted to have fun and I got it. I know, that if I follow the advice people gave me, my investments will go on safe cards, but I don't know if I will get bored with those decks fast. That's my concern. :D

Hey, so I have a small crafting question. I have a bit of dust spared and I was wondering which legendary (and its respective deck) to craft:

Dr. Boom, Mad Genius
or
Some forgotten gems - Archbishop Benedictus, maybe Raza the Chained, Zola the Gorgon, Tess Greymane.

Explanation - control warlock player here, who is pleased with his ladder deck and looks for something more casual. I always had a thing for Hero cards and when I saw the warrior one for the first time, I immediately felt in love with it. The problem is - I don't know if I want to craft the whole deck supporting it. I took a look at an example list on vSsyndicate and my God is this deck expensive.

I can probably spare myself the second Supercollider, but I'm still missing 1x Shield Slam, 2x Reckless Flurry, BGH, Zilliax and Baku the Mooneater. I have some dust, I can also DE some bad cards, but I don't know if it's worth investing a huge portion of my collection into this deck. As a disclaimer to this statement, I know that I'll be able to create a lot more (competitive) decks - Odd Rogue, -//- Pala, -//- Hunter, Pogo Hopper Rogue and almost every control warrior from now on, but this will leave me with no spared dust for my other desirables. I want to play with the aforementioned "forgotten gems" even if they don't necessarily create tier 1 decks.

With Archbishop Benedictus and maybe Raza the Chained I will improve my Thief Priest. With Zola the Gorgon (and Archbishop) I could build the standard Quest Priest and also dane's factory mage. I also want to give Burgle Rogue a try, but I'm missing Tess Greymane (and some Preparations). I also planned playing an N'Zoth warrior deck, which featured Sneed's Old Shredder and Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, but surprise, suprise I miss this legendary. If I craft it, I could also add it in my Renohuner.

So, what's your opinion for this? I would also need some wild players' thoughts.

kthx

How essential is Baron Geddon in big spell mage?

I feel like being in the mood to try out BSM, but I'm missing a lot of epics and legendary cards. Currently I don't have Baron Geddon, 1x Arcane Keysmith, 2x Dragon's Fury, 2x Meteor. I know that the aforementioned epics are the priority craft, but I was just curious about how my deck would do w/o him.

I have literally every other (un)needed legendary - Pyros, Toki, Time-Tinker, Sindragosa, Dragoncaller Alanna, Frost Lich Jaina + Elise the Trailblazer, The Lich King, Alexstrasza - so my deck wouldn't suffer from lacking value, but I don't like crafting legendaries with a restrictive usage. So what do you think?

Quote from SlydE >>

I know that you always write a description after every card and sorry if I have annoyed you, but imho you haven't explain some things that precisely:

Darius Crowley - Playable in most warrior decks.
Sindragosa - Playable in control mage

vs
Frost Lich Jaina - Staple in big spell mage, playable in all other control mage decks.
Shadowreaper Anduin Playable in any priest deck.
Lyra the Sunshard - Playable in dragon cоmbo priest.

I also like the following description and I would like to see this being used for cards, which have the potential to pop up more frequently.

The Black Knight - Evergreen neutral tech card, low playrate.

e.g. N'Zoth, the Corruptor - Strong card in demonlock and priest decks. -> Staple card in every control deathrattle deck. (demonlock & priest with the highest playrate) or sth in those lines. Make it clear, that cards like this will always find a place in a competitive deck. 

Quote from Highwayman37 >>

I'm going to write a post here a bit later regarding the discussion above, but I would like to approach Slyde and say the following thing - be careful with the statistics, mate. Remember how the numbers can change at one point.

This statement may sound way too general for you and I probably didn't come with many examples, but I remember how we discussed the power and the play-ability of Oakheart back in K&C. You put him somewhere at the top (in the tier 2 category) just because he has been considered as a viable option in Trump's controlock. And I came here to talk about how useless and slow he felt despite the numbers. This was in the first 2 weeks into the expansion and by the end of the month Oakheart was never to be seen until now. 

I think the same can be applied here - after all, only 2 days have passed since the balance patch arrive and people are still figuring out the meta. The decks aren't refined yet. I'm expecting some changes regarding the card inclusions. I agree with a big part of what ronintje said - I think it would be better, if you pointed out which cards show potential in the long term. While I wouldn't deny, that no one can predict how the meta will shift into or what cards and support the future sets will bring, imho it's not that hard to point out the most practical ones. You mentioned it yourself - Alex, Bloodmage, Antonidas. I want to encourage you to place them in specific ranks (2,3) just to talk about their popularity at a given time, but mark them as good investments in the long term.

Another example, take a look at DK Rexxar - we all know, that he's been heavily used in many slow-ish and in mid-range hunter decks. The hero cards in general are good, because they acknowledge the host's biggest weakness - DK Gul'Dan provides healing (and additionally board control, board presence); DK Jaina - heal and board presence (also value over time); DK Anduin offers reach (and additionally a swing), DK Malfurion offers stall, DK Valeera - card resource, Hagatha - card generation (in the form of cycle) and finally DK Rexxar - card/value/body generation (a win-condition against slow control decks) and a nice AoE against fragile minions (potential board clear against aggressive strategies). So it's no wonder that he is used in various hunter decks except in the most aggressive ones. And sorry to say, but Rhok'delar can never compete with a value like this one. The weapon might be popular now, but the card doesn't show potential in the future. The weapon depends on how a specific deck will function a whole year. That's why I agree with ronintje about how the cards with a prominent future should be marked more specifically. 

Anyway like I said before, I respect you for trying to come up with a list, that reflects the current legendary ranking. It's nice to see how the popularity of some cards is changing, but I would be careful at pointing out the good ones to the player base, as some people who have a small collection or are new could throw their investments on risky cards.  And by that I mean such legendary cards with a very narrow usage which are being listed as solid inclusions.