Hello! Some cards lost their archetypes after rotation and could use some updates ^_^. These are the cards (in standard):
Sphere of Sapience* - Playable in many archeypes, notably Ramp paladin. -> Demote to Niche, now that there's no HL decks it is most used in OTK/combos experimentation.
Kanrethad Ebonlocke - Staple in zoolock. -> Zoolock vanished after the release of FitB, but it's a playable card in some Control Warlock with different builds.
Kargath Bladefist - Playabe in Enrage and Bomb warrior. -> Playable in Rush and Control Warrior.
Doctor Krastinov* - Staple in bomb warrior and weapon and stealth rogue. -> Playable in Poison and Stealth Rogue.
Sayge, Seer of Darkmoon - Staple in Secret mage. -> Now is Trash without a solid secret package. Maybe Niche in experimentations.
Tenwu of the Red Smoke* - Playable in most Rogue decks. -> It has become staple in Miracle and Secret Rogue.
Forest Warden Omu - Staple in Malygos Druid, playable in Dragon druid. -> In experimentation in Survial/Guardian Druid. Low winrate. (Playable?)
Ace Hunter Kreen - Playable in most hunter and demonhunter decks, notably highlander hunter. -> Playable in Face Hunter, OTK Hunter and Deathrattle DH.
Ringmaster Whatley* - Sees play in various warrior decks, notably menagerie versions. > Staple in Rush Warrior.
Disciplinarian Gandling - Playable in Zoolock and Galakrond priest. > Trash now that Zoo is no longer a thing.
Vectus* - Playable in Quest hunter, sees play experimental play in several classes. > Sees play in Control Warlock along Rustwix. (Playable?)
GAW - Galakrond's Awakening: Need to cut this section in 'Niche'.
The Fist of Ra-den - Niche tech for Highlander and Galakrond Shaman. > Currently not found in any Shaman deck. Trash?
Nozdormu the Eternal* - Weak meme card, even with better stats for cost. > It's staple... in Nozdormu modes! LOL
Hope you find my contribution valuable :)
Thanks a lot! There are even more of these, unfortnately... There are good reasons to just rewrite the whole list for Standard every rotation, and even obvious updates might be hard to see for me, being "blind" looking at the list. To start with: Sayge, Seer of Darkmoon Tier 1 to 4 Doctor Krastinov Tier 1 to 3 Kanrethad Ebonlocke Tier 1 to 4 Sphere of Sapience Tier 1 to 4
Feedback appreciated as always, I had doubts about Kurtrus Ashfallen and Overlord Saurfang especially, as they currently don't see too much play, but have effects I am sure some players find very useful.
I haven't seen a single Cannonmaster Smythe played the whole month. He was the first card I cut from my early Secret Paladin builds as the card felt quite weak. You do drop some stats, but (a) no rush/taunt and (b) all the secrets you may have had up there that could protect you from a board clear are now gone. Opponent can trade minions, cast removal spells, play 3+ cards in a row and anyway do what he has to do to clear your board and you only get the secrets back once your board is gone, feels kind of meh
Yes, the card might belong in tier 3, but the typical tier 2 winrates are still there. Borderline case, I'll look into it closely!
Imo Cairne Bloodhoof is not a staple in any strong decks. I haven't seen it on ranked since release of the Barrens. I think T2 would be better if it's playable in strong decks but there are much more universal cards.
He has seen a big boost in both play- and winrates very recently, especially at higher levels. He is included in strong paladin and warrior decks. Those extra stats do make a difference, and I believe the meta is getting more favourable for him.
Give it a week or two. Despite the risk of neutral classic bias, tier 1 might be justified!
I haven't played too many legendaries from Forged in the Barrens but here is my opinion on the few I've tested so far:
Barak Kodobane: After Mankrik's Wife was fixed and is now a 3-mana spell, I feel that Barak Kodobane in aggressive hunter decks, especially if played on curve 1-2 turns after Mankrik as it draws you 3 cards + summons a 3/10 that hits face for free. I'd say he is tier 2
Blademaster Samuro: Priest decks use him together with Apotheosis for a full clear + massive heal, but aside from that I haven't seen him in any other decks. I'd put him in tier 3. I'd say Xyrella is better in those decks and hence tier 2. However in wild I'd say Samuro is at least tier 2, as he is insanely good in Handbuff Paladin, which in my opinion is one of the best decks in the current meta.
Finally, Cannonmaster Smythe feels really underwhelming in the games I played with aggressive secret paladin decks to the point where I ende up cutting him. I'd say he is no better than tier 3. Hsreplay also has him as one of the worst cards in terms of Played WR% for the most popular deck.
Thanks! I am a bit reluctant to place cards in the guide right now as the nerfs are very likely to cause big changes.
I think it is wise to be a bit careful with placing new cards now with incoming nerfs, but 2 changes are made to the Standard section: Taelan Fordring To tier 1 Rattlegore Tier 1 to 3
I think that whole Classic + Basic card set is now called Legacy and so it should be named Legacy Set in the ranking and rated in all tiers in wild at least if these cards are not doubled in the Core Set that is available in Standard (then 3 top tiers are enough). Sorry if that all was descripted confusingly.
Naming it "Legacy" makes sense.
I made a "Classic" ranking in the OP. As the Wild list is already very long and is about to be even longer, I don't want to double up on those. Almost all of the original legendaries are only playable in "Classic" mode anyway.
The level of confusion is through the roof, though:
The Basic set which can't be DEd is in the "Legacy" set now, next to your DEable versions of "Core" cards.
Lord Jaraxxus is a completely different card in Classic mode.
Leeroy Jenkins is 4 mana in classic, but 5 mana in Legacy.
Cenarius is 9 mana in classic, but 8 mana in Core/Legacy.
All cards added later to the previously called "Classic" set are not available in "Classic" mode, but are in Core/Legacy (afaik.) Other cards are available in Classic but are not in the Core set. Even others are in "Core", but from other Wild-only sets (DEable copies.)
I wonder if it is possible to explain all of this to someone new to the game without them losing interest and giving up after 10 seconds...
Nowadays I can't help that much since I have to study. I could only send you my excel rankings. But I have a question: what is Classic, non-Legacy set in Wild?
Lol, that was a mindtwisting question!
You are actually right, after having a look, the Core and Classic sets cover the whole Legacy set between them, so there will be no bottom 2 tiers for any of those cards. It is quite confusing to me why the "Legacy" set or even there...
I am finally getting how the new Wild list should be done. From the Core and Classic sets, only the top 3 tiers will be listed, but the Legacy only legendaries will be placed in the Wild guide wherever they belong.
I have to admit I am not looking forward to placing all the newly rotated legendaries with a description, if someone can help, it would be most welcome. I will mainly focus on Standard.
Thanks a lot! There are even more of these, unfortnately... There are good reasons to just rewrite the whole list for Standard every rotation, and even obvious updates might be hard to see for me, being "blind" looking at the list. To start with:
Sayge, Seer of Darkmoon Tier 1 to 4
Doctor Krastinov Tier 1 to 3
Kanrethad Ebonlocke Tier 1 to 4
Sphere of Sapience Tier 1 to 4
as well as some card-text updates.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
More updates for the Standard section. Slowly but surely, all the new cards are finding a home in the guide!
Bloodmage Thalnos To tier 2
Death Speaker Blackthorn To tier 2
Overlord Saurfang To tier 3
Ysera the Dreamer To tier 3
Kurtrus Ashfallen To tier 3
King Krush To tier 3
Xyrella To tier 3
Guff Runetotem To tier 4
Mordresh Fire Eye To tier 4
King Mukla To tier 5
Cannonmaster Smythe Tier 2 to 3
Feedback appreciated as always, I had doubts about Kurtrus Ashfallen and Overlord Saurfang especially, as they currently don't see too much play, but have effects I am sure some players find very useful.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Yes, the card might belong in tier 3, but the typical tier 2 winrates are still there. Borderline case, I'll look into it closely!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
He has seen a big boost in both play- and winrates very recently, especially at higher levels. He is included in strong paladin and warrior decks. Those extra stats do make a difference, and I believe the meta is getting more favourable for him.
Give it a week or two. Despite the risk of neutral classic bias, tier 1 might be justified!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Another one I have not faced yet... I have been owned twice by the thousand-armor druid, though!
Updates for the Standard section:
Blademaster Samuro To tier 1
Barak Kodobane To tier 1
Rokara To tier 1
Cairne Bloodhoof To tier 1
Overlord Runthak To tier 1
Lord Jaraxxus To tier 1
Tamsin Roame To tier 2
Cannonmaster Smythe To tier 2
Cariel Roame To tier 2
Shadow Hunter Vol'jin To tier 3
Varden Dawngrasp To tier 4
Brightwing To tier 5
Il'gynoth Tier 1 to 2
Feedback appreciated as always!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Fixed, along with a bunch of other bugs.
Updates for the Wild section:
Sneed's Old Shredder Tier 3 to 4
Majordomo Executus Tier 5 to 4
Anka, the Buried To tier 4
Unseal the Vault To tier 4
Untapped Potential To tier 4
Myra's Unstable Element Tier 2 to 4
Madame Lazul To tier 3
Blastmaster Boom To tier 4
Brightwing To tier 4
Commander Rhyssa Tier 2 to 3
Supreme Archaeology Tier 3 to 4
Dragonqueen Alexstrasza Tier 3 to 1
Nethrandamus To tier 3
Altruis the Outcast To tier 3
Alexstrasza To tier 2
Val'anyr Tier 3 to 2
Rin, the First Disciple Tier 2 to 4
I am sorry I was unaware of the Anka, the Buried/Majordomo Executus/Tess Greymane infinite combo rogue, but I guess the existance of this niche deck means they will both be in tier 4.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
More updates for the Standard section.
Tirion Fordring To tier 1
Keywarden Ivory Tier 2 to 3
Envoy Rustwix Tier 3 to 2
Akama Tier 3 to 4
Archspore Msshi'fn Tier 3 to 4
Kael'thas Sunstrider Tier 2 to 4
Serena Bloodfeather To tier 4
Tavish Stormpike To tier 4
Nozdormu the Eternal To tier 5
There are several more cards in the need for updates following the rotation, but at least this is a start!
Feedback appreciated as always!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Some updates for the Standard section:
Bulwark of Azzinoth Tier 2 to 3
Mankrik To tier 1
Alexstrasza the Life-Binder To tier 2
Deathwing the Destroyer To tier 4
Plaguemaw the Rotting To tier 4
Neeru Fireblade To tier 4
Baron Rivendare To tier 5
Natalie Seline To tier 5
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Thanks! I am a bit reluctant to place cards in the guide right now as the nerfs are very likely to cause big changes.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Good catch, I was about to demote Lady in White to tier 5, but got distracted.
Having doubts about standard with nerfs incoming, I have started placing some weaker Wild legendaries:
Archivist Elysiana To tier 5
Lucentbark To tier 5
Bandersmosh To tier 5
Goru the Mightree To tier 5
Shu'ma To tier 5
Lady in White Tier 4 to 5
Feedback appreciated as always
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Some updates for the Wild section:
Lady in White Tier 4 to 5
Varden Dawngrasp To tier 2
Kingsbane Tier 1 to 3
Tamsin Roame To tier 3
Old Murk-Eye Tier 2 to 1
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I think it is wise to be a bit careful with placing new cards now with incoming nerfs, but 2 changes are made to the Standard section:
Taelan Fordring To tier 1
Rattlegore Tier 1 to 3
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Naming it "Legacy" makes sense.
I made a "Classic" ranking in the OP. As the Wild list is already very long and is about to be even longer, I don't want to double up on those. Almost all of the original legendaries are only playable in "Classic" mode anyway.
The level of confusion is through the roof, though:
The Basic set which can't be DEd is in the "Legacy" set now, next to your DEable versions of "Core" cards.
Lord Jaraxxus is a completely different card in Classic mode.
Leeroy Jenkins is 4 mana in classic, but 5 mana in Legacy.
Cenarius is 9 mana in classic, but 8 mana in Core/Legacy.
All cards added later to the previously called "Classic" set are not available in "Classic" mode, but are in Core/Legacy (afaik.) Other cards are available in Classic but are not in the Core set. Even others are in "Core", but from other Wild-only sets (DEable copies.)
I wonder if it is possible to explain all of this to someone new to the game without them losing interest and giving up after 10 seconds...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Lol, that was a mindtwisting question!
You are actually right, after having a look, the Core and Classic sets cover the whole Legacy set between them, so there will be no bottom 2 tiers for any of those cards. It is quite confusing to me why the "Legacy" set or even there...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I am finally getting how the new Wild list should be done. From the Core and Classic sets, only the top 3 tiers will be listed, but the Legacy only legendaries will be placed in the Wild guide wherever they belong.
I have to admit I am not looking forward to placing all the newly rotated legendaries with a description, if someone can help, it would be most welcome. I will mainly focus on Standard.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide