Hearthpwn

Quote from RevenantSC >>

 Many people don’t want to make the time and/or money investment to play multiple card games. I play two, Hearthstone and Faeria and can’t see myself picking up a third unless something drastic changed. There’s real life and other games to compete for our attention after all.

 I tend to agree.  I currently play Hearthstone and Magic: Arena.  At least at this point, I can't see adding a third game; or "replacing" one of these games w/ LoR.  I've already put so much time and money into HS and MtGA...plus I enjoy both of these so why would I spend time and money on another game when I am already happy with the ones I have?

Quote from Lulchina >>

 Because this just shows how ******** the entire community is. People screech about HS being pay2win but when a new game literally gives you a payment model where you can buy specific cards then suddenly it isn't pay2win.

 Because that is not what "pay to win" means.

But that's super classy using a disability as an insult.

Quote from N0Sp00n22 >>

 I tend to agree.  I currently play Hearthstone and Magic: Arena.  At least at this point, I can't see the point in adding a third game; or "replacing" one of these games w/ LoR.  I've already put so much time and money into HS and MtGA...plus I enjoy both of these so why would I spend time and money on another game when I am already happy with the ones I have?

 My feeling is that it can't hurt to spend a small amount of time to see if I like it, since it's free.

If I enjoy it more than one of the other games I'm playing, then I will absolutely take a break from the game I don't enjoy as much.

Quote from N0Sp00n22 >>

Quote from loshmi123 >>

it wont be a "hearthstone killer" couse hearthstone is already dead. im expecting it to be alot more

Of course, because HS has been "dead" for years.  HAHAHAHA!

 

averaging 10k on twitch. few years ago, while i was playing it was 100k

not to mention killing every fun/high skill cap mechanic (patron,  freeze mage,  handlock with molten giants, miracle, combo druid) , adding more rng, catering game to kids and casuals while becoming pay to be competitive(before karazhan exp i didnt spend cent on hs)

definitly going up same as other blizzard games

HAHAAHHA

Here's my take.

Legends of Runeterra looks and feels like it was developed from the start to be a mobile game, there are a few tooltips and descriptions of cards and mechanics that desperately need to be ironed out (which is what a beta is for), it also feels very uninspired, most if not all of it's mechanics are taken from other games.

I will say however that Legends of Runeterra made me incredibly angry, angry at Blizzard and the current state of Hearthstone. Legends of Runeterra has such amazing systems in place, an amazing tutorial with actual rewards, faction loyalty rewards and an amazing monetization system. While Hearthstone only has packs for purchase, a weekly brawl for 1 pack and maybe some events that aren't set in stone.

Blizzard needs to take notes and they need to stop bending over for that china money.

Honestly, I didn't care about Legend of Runeterra when I first heard of it, since i thought "just another digital card game". When I heard that it's based on League of Legends, my interest only decreased since I never cared about that game at all.

However, some of the things mentioned here made me curious, and I'll probably give it a try when it launches. So, thanks to everyone! Including Lulchina, who tries so desperately to highlight how LoR is "p2w", because he inspired so many people to prove him wrong and give me a better insight how the game actually works in that regard.

Quote from FortyDust >>

I just read up on the way cards are acquired in Runeterra, and I can say with some confidence that the game is utterly doomed.

By limiting the number of cards you can create with a weekly cap, they are essentially saying the people who have been playing the longest and logging in every day are automatically going to have the biggest collections.

That may seem great at first -- keeps things from being all "pay to win" as the kids like to say these days.

However, think down the road a bit. This model is going to be a huge turn-off for new players. No one is going to want to pick up a new game if there is literally no way to catch up with veterans. People complain about it enough in Hearthstone, saying it's a crime that you have to pay money to be able to compete. Well, in Runeterra, you literally cannot compete at all until you've put in your time!

Maybe I'm mistaken about how all of this works, or maybe I missed a piece of the puzzle. But as I understand the system now, it's terrible and the game will never have whales, meaning it will never make any money.

If publishers would stop all the pretense of "free to play" and just admit that games actually cost money -- that they need to have a cost in order to survive -- we could move to a model where people just pay one set price and get all the cards. We need to set aside this collectible model as a relic of gaming history. It kind of made sense for physical cards, but it will never make sense for digital ones.

Firstly sorry for necroing this thread but i need to point something out.

I have come back to hearthpwn for this comment. Not here for a long time.

I did liked your comments and point of view back in the days that i'm very active in this forum so that's the reason I care what you said.

Your arguments are fair enough but you are skipping something. The support power of riot. I can give an example of my country. There are so much people who wants to play hearthstone, especially people under 22. English training isn't well enough here. You need to do something extra to learn it and people (especially younger ones) don't care so much. The community here tried to make blizzard give language support. They have even started a petition for it. Blizzard still refuses to give us Turkish hearthstone experience.The only thing in Turkish about Blizzard games and Especially for Hearthstone (for mobile concerns) are advertisements and even advertisements have become Turkish yet, before 3-4 months ago. I really don't care so much because I am playing all of my games in English because of my old habits. Even the game is in Turkish, I can't understand the game terms well enough. That's so sad but I have grown like this. Anyways; People here don't decide to play Hearthstone because they can't understand the game and they don't want to play it because they think it is hard to learn by playing (not the game, the terms, all the cards etc. even it is not that hard). The point here is Riot already translated League of Legends to Turkish years ago and now they will bring Legends of Runeterra in Turkish with the closed beta with sounds, not just texts. There are so much people here who waits for the game. It is thousands of peoples not just a little group. LoL is the only game with 50k+ Turkish viewers in Twitch and they are only local viewers, not from any other countries like english-speaking streamers. I'm sure they will do this support for other countries too that Blizzard or Wizards of the coast have never gave before like Turkey. This will bring some absolute difference to the market. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a racist or a national nazi here, just wanted to say how LoR might affect the market.

And There are so much riot fans that they can bring to the game. It is even not the same community with card game players. Riot will bring their own playerbase to the game with TFT and LoL together. We all know how they will rise in years with only selling cosmetics. I didn't even buy once but I know how people, even people under 18 spending real money to cosmetics. They are buying because they are happy with the game. Support team is well enough. They are buying stuff because they like, not for reaching people. When you buy for reaching people, you know you are doing a bad thing because it makes you obsessed with the game and you become addicted to the game. But with riot's way, You are buying stuff because you like it and it worked for League of Legends before. There is no reason it doesn't fit in LoR either. I don't agree that LoR will be HS killer. Of course there might be some changeovers, but Riot will bring their own players to the Card Game market for sure because of the stuff I have mentioned in this and above paragraph.

For your concerns about how new players collect cards, it is all of the games' concern in my opinion. I mean, I personally think that People who plays a game for 5 years and started yet shouldn't be equal. There must be some differences because of his loyalty and spent time. Although this thought of mine, I found the Legends of Runeterra safe enough to start late. There are experience system with Regional rewards. You can choose your way to collect. When you go for a region (Think it like classes in hearthstone) You are collecting that region's cards. So you are collecting what you want mostly unlike hearthstone or MTG:A. I don't think a new player will experience bad times to collect or complete the set because region system's first rewards are generous enough and easy to get. you can claim regions first rewards in 4-5 days with casual playing.

You might be right about daily logins and weekly cap but there is a case here. Weekly Vaults. It is one of the most important part of the economy of the LoR. there are 1-13 tiers for that and rewards are so generous. When you complete all of the daily quests in a week (daily quests give experience points and you need experience points to level up your tier for Weekly Vaults) you end up tier 10 Weekly Vaults. It is 3 Platinum Chests.

I don't think we will need to buy those weekly wildcards. There are a thread in reddit about economy of Runeterra. I may quote something I wrote in another website here if you are really interested;

 I sensed that The Riot's plan is making money from only cosmetics like League of Legends because these number shows that noone will feel like they need to buy extra wildcards for what they want to play. You can simply play whatever you like, like everything in the game content are for free. I feel like they would make the game all cards open but they wanted to keep the spirit of collecting cards, (it is the core mechanic of the card games for me tbh, collecting cards, opening packs(chests and capsules are simply booster packs in LoR) etc.)  and keep your progress alive.

So even for money-making for riot and new player issues, I don't think The game will be doomed. The only condition that LoR might be doomed could only be about mechanical or gameplay experience. I don't think it will be dead game because of in-game or normal economy. Ah and that doesn't mean I think that game might die because of mechanics etc. I'm just saying the possibilities. I found mechanics of LoR enjoyable, balanced and better suited more than MTG:A or Hearthstone. There may be so much similarities (you may call it steal but I don't think like that), but LoR really suited well all of those with some extras. (Spell mana is completely new mechanic (Don't know if it is in a game other than HS, MTG:A, TES:L, Pokemon TCG:O, Artifact or Eternal tho.), level-up is looking like Pokemon's evolve but different than that, Mostly mixed up HS Quest and Pokemon Evolve.)

/Edit:
Oh hey, And I don't think one really must leave other card games to be able to play this game. If the game can give what it promises, there is no need to leave other games. I am planning to continue Hearthstone(more than casually) and MTG:A(casually) while playing Legends of Runeterra. If i really like it in time, I may support riot for spending money to cosmetics because If i like, I will want game to live more and be happy to spend money because of I like unlike it is a necessity in hearthstone/MTG:A . :) )
Edit/

/Edit2:
Sorry for that; I can't skip this;

Quote from SneezingMeerkat >>

Here's my take.

Legends of Runeterra looks and feels like it was developed from the start to be a mobile game, there are a few tooltips and descriptions of cards and mechanics that desperately need to be ironed out (which is what a beta is for), it also feels very uninspired, most if not all of it's mechanics are taken from other games.

 

 They already don't refuse that. They are saying that "we like card games, but we feel all of them are so stressing to collect and make progress so we wanted to make own version of them."
I'm not saying this for defending riot, Just pointed out that you should know that it doesn't give you so much new stuff if you decided to start the game. I don't agree that LoR isn't uninspired tho. Just Spell Mana is enough to say that the game is inspired. The game is placing market to correct bad-sides of card games. That is their argument and I agree with them because I see that they find solutions most of them. 3 copies of cards are great for mulligan, Spell mana is great for early/mid game planning, being damaged while MTG's block system is one of the great mechanics of the game etc. There are similarities but game is original whatever you say.

Edit2/

Again, Sorry for necro-ing. I will leave the forum again when/after or if I get response to this post. Thanks everyone who reads this long essay and sorry for textwall. (if you really read ) :P.

Dear Wall-of-text Person:

If you had actually read more of the thread, you would have seen many of your points mentioned later in the conversation, and in particular, you would have seen that I reversed my own position on the business model.

You can save yourself a lot of time writing by spending more time reading.

It looks like Swim is involved, so the game is doomed. Every game he’s ever touched has died.

Open beta starting 24th january.

I tried the game: at first, I was amused at how much angrier I get from losses and happier from wins. Right now, just exploring: it's fun to create your own decks when you don't have cards (in HS I have almost all cards and 20% golden). Managed to create control deck and it seems to win a few games in Ranked. Will play more and see how fast can I get bored from LoR

Quote from loshmi123 >>

Quote from N0Sp00n22 >>

Quote from loshmi123 >>

it wont be a "hearthstone killer" couse hearthstone is already dead. im expecting it to be alot more

Of course, because HS has been "dead" for years.  HAHAHAHA!

 

averaging 10k on twitch. few years ago, while i was playing it was 100k

not to mention killing every fun/high skill cap mechanic (patron,  freeze mage,  handlock with molten giants, miracle, combo druid) , adding more rng, catering game to kids and casuals while becoming pay to be competitive(before karazhan exp i didnt spend cent on hs)

definitly going up same as other blizzard games

HAHAAHHA

 What do Twitch views have to do with anything? Escape from Tarkov has 80k views and there's no way it has more players than Fortnite or GTAV. Hearthstone had half a mil downloads on mobile last month alone. 

https://sensortower.com/android/US/blizzard-entertainment-inc/app/hearthstone/com.blizzard.wtcg.hearthstone/overview

https://sensortower.com/ios/us/blizzard-entertainment-inc/app/hearthstone/625257520/overview

Less people want to watch it, that doesn't mean less people want to play it.

Also, it's 2 AM EST right now and there are 23k people watching it, so your 10k number is a little odd.

ALSO, lmao@calling freeze mage, Molten Giant and Patron "high skill", those were literally braindead autopilot decks. You might as well call Deathrattle Hunter pre-nerf high skill.

I have to say, I like Legends Of Runeterra a lot so far. For me it is gameplay-wise a mix of Magic the Gathering and Hearthstone: the simplicity is the one from Hearthstone, but the turn system and attacking/blocking system is from Magic.

What I also like is the progression system: So far it is much much more generous and f2p than Hearthstone. I can grind many cards for free and the best part is, that since there is a cap of cards available per week for everybody, you can actually win many games on ladder with budget decks.

For now, I will play LoR rather than HS.

Quote from Lulchina >>

Quote from dontBSaltyFAM >>

The game is fun as hell period. Its no where near pay 2 win after completing the prologue  i was able to make that warmother control deck and a fun mushroom deck. Control is pretty nasty in that game. I honestly cant wait for it to drop. HS kinda played out rn. Also buying shit in LOR literally is a waste of time because of how GENEROUS the game is. I had wildcards and shards out the ass. The game LITERALLY ISNT pay to win and they just throw resources to you seriously. 

 Again, you can buy single cards for real money but I guess that the game LITERALLY ISN'T p2w.

 I mean yeah you can buy a limited amount so you can't have all the shizzle at once and then it would be pay to win, but you can literally earn those cards with out paying pretty easy so I would say you are more dumb for paying for them, also the champ cards which I guess and are like hs legendary cards are no where near as powerful as they are in hs, so they is less point paying for them. 

I think I made legend for the last time this month. for me LOR is just so much more fun. HS makes me tilt due to the heavy RNG, childish emoting. Even games in LOR that I lose I actually enjoy playing. 

Also FTP friendly. I played not even a week and already have a lot of cards and multiple viable decks.

I only have a 16 GB Ipad. As soon as LOR goes mobile, it is goodby HS.

Quote from FortyDust >>

I just read up on the way cards are acquired in Runeterra, and I can say with some confidence that the game is utterly doomed.

By limiting the number of cards you can create with a weekly cap, they are essentially saying the people who have been playing the longest and logging in every day are automatically going to have the biggest collections.

That may seem great at first -- keeps things from being all "pay to win" as the kids like to say these days.

However, think down the road a bit. This model is going to be a huge turn-off for new players. No one is going to want to pick up a new game if there is literally no way to catch up with veterans. People complain about it enough in Hearthstone, saying it's a crime that you have to pay money to be able to compete. Well, in Runeterra, you literally cannot compete at all until you've put in your time!

Maybe I'm mistaken about how all of this works, or maybe I missed a piece of the puzzle. But as I understand the system now, it's terrible and the game will never have whales, meaning it will never make any money.

If publishers would stop all the pretense of "free to play" and just admit that games actually cost money -- that they need to have a cost in order to survive -- we could move to a model where people just pay one set price and get all the cards. We need to set aside this collectible model as a relic of gaming history. It kind of made sense for physical cards, but it will never make sense for digital ones.

 This is without doubt the best answer I have read in a long time. Absolutely spot on mate!

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Lulchina >>

 I agree, you do look like an idiot.

The point is that you can still buy wild cards. You can still buy advantage over others, no matter how minuscule do you believe it to be.

 I don't think you know what pay-to-win means.

Pay-to-win is when the person who spends the most money has a distinct advantage, even over someone else who spent slightly less money.

The mere ability to purchase cards with cash isn't enough.

The fact that a free-to-play player can be up and running with a fully fleshed-out deck in very little time totally negates the ability of a paying player to "buy wins."

What advantage do you get when you buy cards, then? You may be able to build a more diverse collection more quickly, but that's not going to help you in any individual match. On a per-match basis, the only cards that matter are the 40 that are in your deck.

The correct label would be pay-for-variety, not pay-to-win, as a paying player will be able to experience a wider variety of decks. Even this minor perk disappears as the free player's collection catches up.

 I agree. But RIOT needs to be very careful with the cards they create, specially at the beginning of the game when you have less cards in the pool. If they create an overpowered card that makes a huge difference (like the old Dr. Boom in 2015), then the game becomes in a p2w game even worse than HS could be, because players can buy and create an overpowered deck faster than in HS.

The difference is at least for now that u get a huge amount of rewards for leveling the factions and so on. I didnt spent a cent till now and im still able to create 5 rly good decks. Playin for like 2 weeks and playing around 3-4 games a day on average.

Also i really like the wildcard mechanic and keep in mind that u can obtain them from ur faction reward or ur weakly vault. So it isnt to hard to get some and trade them for the specific card u need, imo this rly improves the posibilty to create ur favorite deck(s) without having to spend money. Yet for me it seems that the shard currency is a lil bit to high atleast champion cards (100 common 3000 champion for example)

Overall im having a lot of fun with LoR atm and barely touch hs (tbh i think i logged 2-3 times into hs over my smartphone at work and i bet i would had started LoR instead if it would be avaible on phone alrdy).

So far, I'm absolutely loving Legends of Runeterra. It has a lore I enjoy, fun card effects, and a wide variety of builds to try. The economy is far superior in the sense that I was able to build three decks from scratch without having to spend a single cent. Hearthstone tends to a take a much longer time to grind out cards you want as a F2P. Even though just about every mechanic is taken from another game, it's something fresh and I can't wait to see what they come up with.

It hasn't won me over quite like Hearthstone. This is just my personal opinion. Despite it's numerous upsides, there are some glaring balance issues (which is forgivable being the game is still in BETA mode). Still, if you play regularly, you probably know what I'm talking about.

Shadow Isles and Ionia are far more dominant than the other four factions. Shadow Isles has a minion that costs 8-mana who can CUT YOUR NEXUS LIFE POINTS IN HALF. IN. HALF. What's worse is that when he dies, he just gets sent straight to your hand. Plus, it's a well stated card, so there's zero penalty. Hell, if it's an odd number of life points, it just rounds up to the nearest decimal meaning having one life point left means death. WHO DESIGNED THIS? Ionia also has a card called Deny which just outright cancels any spell you play without warning. Counterplay should happen more strategically (i.e. buffing a minion prior to an attack or swapping the position of battling minions) and not simply denying your opponent six mana at the cost of three.

Still, I like it. I like it a lot. If they add some fresh ideas and fix some balancing issues, it could be a great game and it already is!

How is the game currently doing? Is it worth trying? Since heartstone become terrible