I've been playing the beta today. I opened about 20 packs and got some cards. But there is a really strange feeling when you know with certainty that you will literally neverbe able to finish your target deck unless you pay more. If I play for the rest of the year, unless I open my wallet, I will make literally zero collection progress.
Even If I do spend more on competitive drafts, the chances of me earning prizes are low because the rewards are skewed towards higher wins. There is no prize whatsoever for 1 or 2 draft wins!
The cards you get offered in keeper draft are quite bad, in my experience. The drafts are async, so you essentially get the remainder of the packs from other players. Who pick the best Rares of course! It's not like MTGA, which uses bots, so you can rare draft really effectively.
In my opinion, the economics of the game is a disaster. Which is a real shame, because the gameplay is quite fun.
BTW, don't expect the secondary market to improve things, when it opens on 28th Nov. The best heroes and Rare cards that everyone wants are sure to be very expensive. They are so scarce in keeper draft/packs, they have to be $50+. I wouldn't be surprised if they are $100+ and you need 2-3 for certain decks.
I'm referring to cards like Time of Triumph and Horn of the Alpha. And rare heroes like Axe.
...Artifact's business model makes Hearthstone look generous...
lul... it just MAKES it LOOK generous, dude... ^^ ...f2p is the devil's pit!!! ...as someone who has income/money (and is ok with spending it on games as it is his enjoyable hobby)... and has spent around 2000$ on hs... since Un'Goro... it is not cheep!!! :) ...it has no limit if you want whole collection... God forbids golden decks!! (I opened over 700 boomsday packs just to get meme golden all mech warrior deck!!!)... it has no end... and rng of getting leg/golden cards... insane rates of DE.... meh... don't get me wrong... I don't regret doing so... I will still play hs... spend money... making game free for you f2p players... ;)
with artifact, it's pointless at one point to spend money on collection... as there is a point where you have completed your collection... and it costs a loooot less than to get it in hs... having option to actually buy it on market makes the world of change...
Former HS streamer who pretends to know how to play MtG, makes trash deck for Youtube and often whines when he loses to actually functioning decks.
I checked the video. What I understood is, that he is promoting a game he is working on and when he said "money sent to Blizzard incinerator" I saw that he is too biased and switched it off.
...Artifact's business model makes Hearthstone look generous...
lul... it just MAKES it LOOK generous, dude... ^^ ...f2p is the devil's pit!!! ...as someone who has income/money (and is ok with spending it on games as it is his enjoyable hobby)... and has spent around 2000$ on hs... since Un'Goro... it is not cheep!!! :) ...it has no limit if you want whole collection... God forbids golden decks!! (I opened over 700 boomsday packs just to get meme golden all mech warrior deck!!!)... it has no end... and rng of getting leg/golden cards... insane rates of DE.... meh... don't get me wrong... I don't regret doing so... I will still play hs... spend money... making game free for you f2p players... ;)
with artifact, it's pointless at one point to spend money on collection... as there is a point where you have completed your collection... and it costs a loooot less than to get it in hs... having option to actually buy it on market makes the world of change...
If you spend money to get all gold deck, do not complain. This spend will not bring you any gameplay value. It's your decission for unnecessary bling-bling.
After watching some of the streams of Artifact the last few hours, Artifact still seems very RNG based.
Yes, there are some more thought provoking decisions, but there is also really stupid RNG that determines how your minions, or creeps, attack. Just now Toast has a 26 attack creep with no one in front of it attack the enemy creep to it’s right. That enemy minion had one health left. One! And there was already a 15 attack creep directly in front of the enemy.
Furthermore, another coin flip caused a 4 attack minion to go left instead of face. That 30 missed damage caused him to not kill the Ancient in that lane, and he lost.
Similar RNG from creep attack directions caused him to miss about 80 damage to the Ancient in that one lane over consecutive turns. And he LOST the game.
So again, while some of the choices you can make probably are more skill intensive than HS, having RNG determine if you attack face when the path is open, or helping defend if there is a creep in the position next to you... If this game is supposed to be skill intensive with deep gameplay, why is that important part of your strategy and attack/defense left up completely to chance?
God Toast All Mighty sucks at the game... so game must be bad!!! ^^
Stancifka apparently changes to solely stream Artifact. It's a little bit a pity since he is one of the few streamers I liked to watch playing hearthstone (even since I am not really playing hearthstone any more). He explains his plays pretty well and he is also a quite successful gamer (although he almost only shows his wins on youtube). Nevertheless, I cannot imagine to watch him playing artifact. The vids from Artifact gameplay I watched so far were boring as fuck. Not a game I am interested at all.
The only reason I could think of somebody switching to solely stream Artifact after they grew their viewerbase from Hearthstone is simply that Valve is gonna be paying quite a bit to try and help promote the game (since the sheeple they've been paying to promote the game here on the forums haven't been working quite so well).
I agree on Artifact looking boring as fuck, I think reydad said it best in one of his highlights where he basicly says that the game is just numbers, you play stuff and at the end of the turn everything just happens, it's just math. Reminds me a lot on Gwent.
I think it is a strange move from him. I bet he lost of subscribes in social medias immediately. Smart thing to do would be say something like - "I am not playing Hearthstone till the next expansion, meta is too stale meanwhile I have Artifact that excites me" then say "Well, expansion changed nothing, I'll try again after the rotation". This way he wouldn't lose subscribers immediately and actually had a chance to attract some of his current followers to Artifact.
The way how he did it is like saying please unsubscribe from my youtube channel NOW to all hearthstone fans. Dubious move for a streamer.
1) Artifact is very fresh 2) There are popular streamers from other game there 3) Many of those are hearthstone streamers 4) It is the most boring period of hearthstone (last month of the expansion, midseason)
It looks like mighty "killer of Hearthstone" underperforms
For people that still belives in Gwent: its not happening in early future. Gwent is not a TCG right now so...its not a good game. Why is not a TCG? because still fails in find a balance between winning the game and control the game. Artifacts (the cards of gwent) are just attrocius stall tools that let you dealt with every card or almost every card in the game and give you infinite value, that is bad game design. Control decks are strong in the game not because they are good but because the win condition of the game forces you to overextend or auto lose when you deck relays on get big points. The game need a lot of work and right now not even the former streamers belive that CDp will get something that is fun to play for the moment.
For artifact vs hs stuff: I think Artifact can be as good as HS is in this moment. Most of the people that said "HS is too simple" forgets that the reason why this game is so good and is probably the best online TCG in the moment its because this game is simple. Artifact players already recall that something of the games early needs its progress in the first experience for new players. The game right now is way too complex and not really intuitive to play so only persons that know how to play a more complex TCG game like Magic The Gathering will get how to play Artifact without suck at first time. I really think that this new TCG will be very cool to try BUT i doubt that will beat HS just right now, HS is just such a better game -for all the type of players- when Artifact is just better for expert players AS A FUN GAME not as a competitive game, becuase you should not aim to be first a super competitive master mind game before your players begin to enjoy what the game offers.
Also about the viewers nonsense: everyone wants to try the new VALVE game lol is normal that more people is making Artifact content right now. its like when people said "oh Heroes of the storm will kill lol becuase everyone is playing the game when the open beta begins" or "duelyst/shadowverse will kill HS" or stuff like that. Just enjoy the game, if it more fun for you play it if not dont fell "shame" for play HS you are not playing something just because other people said "its better"
1) Artifact is very fresh 2) There are popular streamers from other game there 3) Many of those are hearthstone streamers 4) It is the most boring period of hearthstone (last month of the expansion, midseason)
It looks like mighty "killer of Hearthstone" underperforms
Just check the twitter account of those HS streamers. All of them stated yesterday after stream that the game is shit, that it is not for them and that they won't be streaming it anymore. Gwent 2.0
I really hope it succeeds. I don't like the look of Artifact and it seems far too complicated for my needs but Heartstone needs a viable competitor so for that reason alone I hope it does well. MTGA I also hope succeeds.
Savjz just call the paywall of Artifact to be a really big problem for the game just right now and i kinda see why. I mean pay 20$ for begin to play a CARD GAME that also will requires atleast 60$ extra to make a decent deck and have a big learning curve is not what i call a game for everyone. You really need to spend between 80 or 100$ to play the game (atleast in this moment) that sounds really rought because 20$ of that amount are not even optionals.
Valve fixed some stuff like u get free tickets if u pack a starter hero which is way better than packing an uncomon card.
Theres a type of draft now that is free so u can literally play that mode to your hearts content. This 2 big changes were done yesterday solely due to the community's backlash. Maybe now the game is better and theres still time for them change stuff like constructed etc.
Either way the thing about streaming is that #1 its a hard game to learn and master. Even Control who was bashing HS for the last 2 months waiting for Artifact hoping that the game would be good turns out that the game is to complicated for him according to his words. #2 its hard to watch even for the viewers that know whats going on cause the game aint fast aint snappy dont have an appealing and clear look on its board animations etc.
Even if the game turns out to be good and successful it will never have high numbers on Twitch
I will wait for Christmas time to see what the game turned into to. Dire times for AAA companies in terms of making quality games. Sadly they do make money so they couldn't care less
I really hope it succeeds. I don't like the look of Artifact and it seems far too complicated for my needs but Heartstone needs a viable competitor so for that reason alone I hope it does well. MTGA I also hope succeeds.
MTGA has a good chance to become a noticeable competitor. Artifact has no chance. It just targets a very different customer base.
I still don't understand why Valve is denying a working model and gives no reward for playing their game. What next? MMO where the only way to gain XP and level up your character is to pay $?
Is this is a part of some plan? Maybe... they'll make money from initial wave and then add a preplanned F2P system to pretend that they "listen to the community?" I know, It is a conspiracy theory level of thinking but I am just trying to find a rational explanation of this economic model.
I really hope it succeeds. I don't like the look of Artifact and it seems far too complicated for my needs but Heartstone needs a viable competitor so for that reason alone I hope it does well. MTGA I also hope succeeds.
MTGA has a good chance to become a noticeable competitor. Artifact has no chance. It just targets a very different customer base.
I still don't understand why Valve is denying a working model and gives no reward for playing their game. What next? MMO where the only way to gain XP and level up your character is to pay $?
Is this is a part of some plan? Maybe... they'll make money from initial wave and then add a preplanned F2P system to pretend that they "listen to the community?" I know, It is a conspiracy theory level of thinking but I am just trying to find a rational explanation of this economic model.
I agree, it’s bizarre. Artifact has the worst economy of any CCG I’ve played to date. I’m not sure what Valve are thinking.
Also, I am unhappy that if Artifact will be popular enough it will create an "industry" for people doing nothing but buying and selling cards in hopes to make profit on correctly predicting meta changes. This is not what I want to see in Steam client with so many children around.
Also, I am unhappy that if Artifact will be popular enough it will create an "industry" for people doing nothing but buying and selling cards in hopes to make profit on correctly predicting meta changes. This is not what I want to see in Steam client with so many children around.
That! Exactly!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--Alfi--
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I've been playing the beta today. I opened about 20 packs and got some cards. But there is a really strange feeling when you know with certainty that you will literally never be able to finish your target deck unless you pay more. If I play for the rest of the year, unless I open my wallet, I will make literally zero collection progress.
Even If I do spend more on competitive drafts, the chances of me earning prizes are low because the rewards are skewed towards higher wins. There is no prize whatsoever for 1 or 2 draft wins!
The cards you get offered in keeper draft are quite bad, in my experience. The drafts are async, so you essentially get the remainder of the packs from other players. Who pick the best Rares of course! It's not like MTGA, which uses bots, so you can rare draft really effectively.
In my opinion, the economics of the game is a disaster. Which is a real shame, because the gameplay is quite fun.
BTW, don't expect the secondary market to improve things, when it opens on 28th Nov. The best heroes and Rare cards that everyone wants are sure to be very expensive. They are so scarce in keeper draft/packs, they have to be $50+. I wouldn't be surprised if they are $100+ and you need 2-3 for certain decks.
I'm referring to cards like Time of Triumph and Horn of the Alpha. And rare heroes like Axe.
lul... it just MAKES it LOOK generous, dude... ^^ ...f2p is the devil's pit!!! ...as someone who has income/money (and is ok with spending it on games as it is his enjoyable hobby)... and has spent around 2000$ on hs... since Un'Goro... it is not cheep!!! :) ...it has no limit if you want whole collection... God forbids golden decks!! (I opened over 700 boomsday packs just to get meme golden all mech warrior deck!!!)... it has no end... and rng of getting leg/golden cards... insane rates of DE.... meh... don't get me wrong... I don't regret doing so... I will still play hs... spend money... making game free for you f2p players... ;)
with artifact, it's pointless at one point to spend money on collection... as there is a point where you have completed your collection... and it costs a loooot less than to get it in hs... having option to actually buy it on market makes the world of change...
I checked the video. What I understood is, that he is promoting a game he is working on and when he said "money sent to Blizzard incinerator" I saw that he is too biased and switched it off.
--Alfi--
If you spend money to get all gold deck, do not complain. This spend will not bring you any gameplay value. It's your decission for unnecessary bling-bling.
--Alfi--
God Toast All Mighty sucks at the game... so game must be bad!!! ^^
I think it is a strange move from him. I bet he lost of subscribes in social medias immediately. Smart thing to do would be say something like - "I am not playing Hearthstone till the next expansion, meta is too stale meanwhile I have Artifact that excites me" then say "Well, expansion changed nothing, I'll try again after the rotation". This way he wouldn't lose subscribers immediately and actually had a chance to attract some of his current followers to Artifact.
The way how he did it is like saying please unsubscribe from my youtube channel NOW to all hearthstone fans. Dubious move for a streamer.
I'm not complaining... I'm not regretting paying $ for hs... I enjoy (a little less in the past few months thou) hs...
just sayin' from collector's point of view that both games are expensive... ^^
BTW, right now on Twitch
Artifact: 28 500 viewers
Hearthstone: 23 500 viewers
1) Artifact is very fresh
2) There are popular streamers from other game there
3) Many of those are hearthstone streamers
4) It is the most boring period of hearthstone (last month of the expansion, midseason)
It looks like mighty "killer of Hearthstone" underperforms
For people that still belives in Gwent: its not happening in early future. Gwent is not a TCG right now so...its not a good game. Why is not a TCG? because still fails in find a balance between winning the game and control the game. Artifacts (the cards of gwent) are just attrocius stall tools that let you dealt with every card or almost every card in the game and give you infinite value, that is bad game design. Control decks are strong in the game not because they are good but because the win condition of the game forces you to overextend or auto lose when you deck relays on get big points. The game need a lot of work and right now not even the former streamers belive that CDp will get something that is fun to play for the moment.
For artifact vs hs stuff: I think Artifact can be as good as HS is in this moment. Most of the people that said "HS is too simple" forgets that the reason why this game is so good and is probably the best online TCG in the moment its because this game is simple. Artifact players already recall that something of the games early needs its progress in the first experience for new players. The game right now is way too complex and not really intuitive to play so only persons that know how to play a more complex TCG game like Magic The Gathering will get how to play Artifact without suck at first time. I really think that this new TCG will be very cool to try BUT i doubt that will beat HS just right now, HS is just such a better game -for all the type of players- when Artifact is just better for expert players AS A FUN GAME not as a competitive game, becuase you should not aim to be first a super competitive master mind game before your players begin to enjoy what the game offers.
Also about the viewers nonsense: everyone wants to try the new VALVE game lol is normal that more people is making Artifact content right now. its like when people said "oh Heroes of the storm will kill lol becuase everyone is playing the game when the open beta begins" or "duelyst/shadowverse will kill HS" or stuff like that. Just enjoy the game, if it more fun for you play it if not dont fell "shame" for play HS you are not playing something just because other people said "its better"
Artifact is a new game, dont bother the views too much
there is game named SCUM, had a terrible time
Just check the twitter account of those HS streamers. All of them stated yesterday after stream that the game is shit, that it is not for them and that they won't be streaming it anymore. Gwent 2.0
I rly want a strong competitor against hearthstone. But sadly Artifact is not even a close competitor because of its economic approach.
Savjz just call the paywall of Artifact to be a really big problem for the game just right now and i kinda see why. I mean pay 20$ for begin to play a CARD GAME that also will requires atleast 60$ extra to make a decent deck and have a big learning curve is not what i call a game for everyone. You really need to spend between 80 or 100$ to play the game (atleast in this moment) that sounds really rought because 20$ of that amount are not even optionals.
Valve fixed some stuff like u get free tickets if u pack a starter hero which is way better than packing an uncomon card.
Theres a type of draft now that is free so u can literally play that mode to your hearts content. This 2 big changes were done yesterday solely due to the community's backlash. Maybe now the game is better and theres still time for them change stuff like constructed etc.
Either way the thing about streaming is that #1 its a hard game to learn and master. Even Control who was bashing HS for the last 2 months waiting for Artifact hoping that the game would be good turns out that the game is to complicated for him according to his words. #2 its hard to watch even for the viewers that know whats going on cause the game aint fast aint snappy dont have an appealing and clear look on its board animations etc.
Even if the game turns out to be good and successful it will never have high numbers on Twitch
I will wait for Christmas time to see what the game turned into to. Dire times for AAA companies in terms of making quality games. Sadly they do make money so they couldn't care less
MTGA has a good chance to become a noticeable competitor. Artifact has no chance. It just targets a very different customer base.
I still don't understand why Valve is denying a working model and gives no reward for playing their game. What next? MMO where the only way to gain XP and level up your character is to pay $?
Is this is a part of some plan? Maybe... they'll make money from initial wave and then add a preplanned F2P system to pretend that they "listen to the community?" I know, It is a conspiracy theory level of thinking but I am just trying to find a rational explanation of this economic model.
I agree, it’s bizarre. Artifact has the worst economy of any CCG I’ve played to date. I’m not sure what Valve are thinking.
Not fan of Artifact but.. you are bitching about 100 bucks for game in total...
How many of you spent 100+ each expansion on HS?
This couldn't be further removed from the truth.
People are bitching because every pack, every card and every game mode outside of constructed costs real money.
Also, I am unhappy that if Artifact will be popular enough it will create an "industry" for people doing nothing but buying and selling cards in hopes to make profit on correctly predicting meta changes. This is not what I want to see in Steam client with so many children around.
That! Exactly!
--Alfi--