No in game currency+20 dollars just to try the game makes sure there is 0 chance I will ever try it. No way to go infinite in arena as well is a big turn off too.
As for gameplay I found the complexity people talk about very overhyped+it is really boring as a viewer. It has more complexity than hs, but not in an interesting way.
First tournament they hyped so much was such a failure too, it went from 15k day 1 to barely 7-8 k last day. Hype for such a new game died nearly instantly.
Also for the first time ever I saw viewership drop for the tournament when gameplay started and pregame show ended.
I am not satisfied with state of HS at all, but I am not going to overhype this game just because its new.
So greedy business model+boring game to watch at first glance make this game unlikely to succeed.
Artifact aint for F2Ps, u sink in a couple of dozens of dollars from day 1 and enjoy a card game as well as an investment in the market. seems fun and useful
The value of cards on the market depends on how many players play constructed though. In Hearthstone, constructed is the most popular game mode, but it is possible that for Artifact draft will be more popular. If that turns out to be the case, there could be more supply than demand for cards and market prices for cards would be pretty low.
I highly doubt that drafting will be more popular simply because... YOU NEED TO PLAY MONEY TO PLAY DRAFT.
Imagine they create a new, additional mode for Dota and say: you need to pay $0.03 per game and get it back if your team wins. How do you think, how popular would that be?
Unlike Dota, Artifact is not F2P, so players who don't want to pay anything won't be playing in the first place. It is possible some players don't mind one-time buys but dislike paying recurring amounts. However, when it comes to prices on the marketplace, if frugal players would determine the price level, the prices won't be high.
What I'm trying to say is that "investing" in cards is risky, since it is hard to predict what card prices are going to do in the long run. It is possible they will retain their value, but it is also possible you'll only get back a fraction of what you spent. This also depends on the size of the cut that Valve takes from card sales. So I would recommend spending the amount of money that you think playing the game is worth and consider anything you get back if you ever sell your cards as a bonus.
First tournament they hyped so much was such a failure too, it went from 15k day 1 to barely 7-8 k last day. Hype for such a new game died nearly instantly.
Also for the first time ever I saw viewership drop for the tournament when gameplay started and pregame show ended.
I didn't watch the tournament myself, but from the discussion on this week's Value Town I gathered that the broadcast could have been done much better. Apparently they didn't do much to help people new to the game understand what is going on and probably most of the viewers were new.
Even if they improve their broadcast, it remains a difficult game to stream since important information can be off-screen. With Hearthstone, most of the game state is visible at all times, so it's easy to catch up on a match even if you haven't watched all of it.
But does a game have to be successful as a spectator sport? Artifact could probably sustain itself on a small but dedicated player base and it wouldn't matter if only people from that small community watched the eSports streams.
I am not satisfied with state of HS at all, but I am not going to overhype this game just because its new.
I'm more positive about the state of HS, but I do agree that Artifact being hyped as the HS-killer is silly. Artifact isn't designed to appeal to a large audience like Hearthstone does, neither in its game design nor in its economic model.
After watching some of the streams of Artifact the last few hours, Artifact still seems very RNG based.
Yes, there are some more thought provoking decisions, but there is also really stupid RNG that determines how your minions, or creeps, attack. Just now Toast has a 26 attack creep with no one in front of it attack the enemy creep to it’s right. That enemy minion had one health left. One! And there was already a 15 attack creep directly in front of the enemy.
Furthermore, another coin flip caused a 4 attack minion to go left instead of face. That 30 missed damage caused him to not kill the Ancient in that lane, and he lost.
Similar RNG from creep attack directions caused him to miss about 80 damage to the Ancient in that one lane over consecutive turns. And he LOST the game.
So again, while some of the choices you can make probably are more skill intensive than HS, having RNG determine if you attack face when the path is open, or helping defend if there is a creep in the position next to you... If this game is supposed to be skill intensive with deep gameplay, why is that important part of your strategy and attack/defense left up completely to chance?
I am not saying it's overly complex, or that you oversimplified. I'm simply saying that in my opinion one of the most important parts of your strategy is left up to a coin flip. 50% that a creep with a clear path will go straight and attack face/tower, 25% chance for going right, or for going left to attack a nearby enemy creep. I think the game would instantly be 20x more appealing to me if they made one change, and you had the choice of attacking straight, or helping to block a creep directly to the left/right of your creep. It seems like such an important part of the strategy and decision making of the game, and it's left all up to chance.
I'm sure it's that way because you can't control the creeps in DotA when they are running up a lane. But just because it's based on DotA shouldn't dictate this part of the game. Just my opinion, and a huge reason why I'll be skipping Artifact.
EDIT: Artifact choosing how your creeps attack for you is comparable to if every minion in Hearthstone had the attack effect of Kobold Barbarian at the end of your turn.
I do believe Artifact to be better than HS and more fun due to micro decisions BUT at the same time it seems to be hard to see the game take off from a niche player base.
The fact that u cant watch a stream of the game and understand whats going on is a big issue. U actually need to play the game to understand it THEN u can watch other ppl playing.
Add that to the fact that ppl know now that 20 bucks for pay to play won't be enough to enjoy the full game might create entry barriers that may be irreversible and damaging to the game's reputation
Honestly i do wish that with 40-50 bucks it will allow me to enjoy the game for months. On the other hand I actually wish Artifact to be one of the biggest flops in video game history.
Idk why i feel that way. I guess that some men just really wanna see the world burn
Competitive MtG players don't buy booster boxes. Every competitive player knows that there is no value in buying boxes. Instead the buy singles online or from their LGS if it is selling singles. It is incredibly difficult for LGS to sell a booster box to anyone, let alone a competitive player, because casuals who are naive enough to buy them will sooner get them from Wall Mart at a very discounted prices. The store cracks the boxes and sells 3 pack bundles for draft events and that is usually the only way that boxes get sold out.
Interesting, that hasn't been my experience. I have a good friend who owns several shops, and he always saves a certain amount of boxes specifically to sell to customers, and he never has any trouble selling them. I also have several friends/acquaintances that play competitively and buy at least one box every expansion.
As far as collectors/investors go, they are more likely to buy entire cases or pallets in the case of guys like Rudy from AlphaInvestments.
There was nothing to do with duplicate starter heroes. We're adding a system that allows extra, unwanted cards to be recycled into event tickets. This feature will ship before the end of the beta period.
Lol. How kind of them. They are so caring about needs of the players.
It is a great idea to..... create some demand for crappy cards on the marketplace to get MOAR money.
I currently pay $0 for Hearthstone and MTG:A, so could see myself not buying Artifact. I don't I'll be alone in this opinion.
I was able to take the 4.99 beginner whatever for MTGA, and now I have a competitive meta deck. I only have 1, but it works and I can enjoy the game on a competitive level if I choose to. That option simply won't be available for Artifact in terms of constructed, for those reason's I'm out as well; not a fan of how they integrated the open beta, but I remember getting a key for Dota 2 in beta and selling it for over 40 CDN...my point is Artifact is only for those with the cash to enjoy it, period.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, I wonder how people expected Artifact to be a competitor to HS at all
Big card games like HS are expensive. After playing HS, you become disillusioned by the reality of how much these things will cost you. If I had to start over my collection, I would quit on the spot because of how much it would cost me to rebuild. Starting a new collection on Artifact would be more or less the same thing, with maybe a bit of new gameplay. Maybe if I hadn't played HS, I would think this was a decent deal
Furthermore, I don't see any reason to play this over the multitudes of small indie digital card games that shower you with packs at every opportunity. The reason I still play HS in addition to them despite the costs is because of its existing community (including streams and tournaments). Artifact has the worst of both worlds ...
Stancifka apparently changes to solely stream Artifact. It's a little bit a pity since he is one of the few streamers I liked to watch playing hearthstone (even since I am not really playing hearthstone any more). He explains his plays pretty well and he is also a quite successful gamer (although he almost only shows his wins on youtube). Nevertheless, I cannot imagine to watch him playing artifact. The vids from Artifact gameplay I watched so far were boring as fuck. Not a game I am interested at all.
Stancifka apparently changes to solely stream Artifact. It's a little bit a pity since he is one of the few streamers I liked to watch playing hearthstone (even since I am not really playing hearthstone any more). He explains his plays pretty well and he is also a quite successful gamer (although he almost only shows his wins on youtube). Nevertheless, I cannot imagine to watch him playing artifact. The vids from Artifact gameplay I watched so far were boring as fuck. Not a game I am interested at all.
The only reason I could think of somebody switching to solely stream Artifact after they grew their viewerbase from Hearthstone is simply that Valve is gonna be paying quite a bit to try and help promote the game (since the sheeple they've been paying to promote the game here on the forums haven't been working quite so well).
I agree on Artifact looking boring as fuck, I think reydad said it best in one of his highlights where he basicly says that the game is just numbers, you play stuff and at the end of the turn everything just happens, it's just math. Reminds me a lot on Gwent.
The general gameplay won't appeal to a large player base as HS did and still does. HS simplicity and quick way of playing &making progress has not been matched by any CCG before (not that any serious one of them tried to, though). Artifact is too complex and lacks the necessary transparency & visibility for possible spectators. You simply don't see what's going on when tuning in to an Artifact game unless you are regularly playing it yourself. This makes it rather lackluster in terms of a competitive scene because no one is going to watch it. In HS you know the mechanics in a short time even as a new player or as a spectator-only. Gwent suffered from the same issue and it wasn't even that much more complex, even though CDPR reduced certain aspects with their last huge update.
call me a noob... but I didn't have a clue what's goin' on when I first started watching hs also...
edit: and I caught up wit artifact after one or two tut videos.. and few matches... same as hs... :)
No in game currency+20 dollars just to try the game makes sure there is 0 chance I will ever try it. No way to go infinite in arena as well is a big turn off too.
As for gameplay I found the complexity people talk about very overhyped+it is really boring as a viewer. It has more complexity than hs, but not in an interesting way.
First tournament they hyped so much was such a failure too, it went from 15k day 1 to barely 7-8 k last day. Hype for such a new game died nearly instantly.
Also for the first time ever I saw viewership drop for the tournament when gameplay started and pregame show ended.
I am not satisfied with state of HS at all, but I am not going to overhype this game just because its new.
So greedy business model+boring game to watch at first glance make this game unlikely to succeed.
Unlike Dota, Artifact is not F2P, so players who don't want to pay anything won't be playing in the first place. It is possible some players don't mind one-time buys but dislike paying recurring amounts. However, when it comes to prices on the marketplace, if frugal players would determine the price level, the prices won't be high.
What I'm trying to say is that "investing" in cards is risky, since it is hard to predict what card prices are going to do in the long run. It is possible they will retain their value, but it is also possible you'll only get back a fraction of what you spent. This also depends on the size of the cut that Valve takes from card sales. So I would recommend spending the amount of money that you think playing the game is worth and consider anything you get back if you ever sell your cards as a bonus.
I didn't watch the tournament myself, but from the discussion on this week's Value Town I gathered that the broadcast could have been done much better. Apparently they didn't do much to help people new to the game understand what is going on and probably most of the viewers were new.
Even if they improve their broadcast, it remains a difficult game to stream since important information can be off-screen. With Hearthstone, most of the game state is visible at all times, so it's easy to catch up on a match even if you haven't watched all of it.
But does a game have to be successful as a spectator sport? Artifact could probably sustain itself on a small but dedicated player base and it wouldn't matter if only people from that small community watched the eSports streams.
I'm more positive about the state of HS, but I do agree that Artifact being hyped as the HS-killer is silly. Artifact isn't designed to appeal to a large audience like Hearthstone does, neither in its game design nor in its economic model.
What does Nox think about
HS and ARTIFACT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K47QV-JAFlc
and which one he is going to stream
After watching some of the streams of Artifact the last few hours, Artifact still seems very RNG based.
Yes, there are some more thought provoking decisions, but there is also really stupid RNG that determines how your minions, or creeps, attack. Just now Toast has a 26 attack creep with no one in front of it attack the enemy creep to it’s right. That enemy minion had one health left. One! And there was already a 15 attack creep directly in front of the enemy.
Furthermore, another coin flip caused a 4 attack minion to go left instead of face. That 30 missed damage caused him to not kill the Ancient in that lane, and he lost.
Similar RNG from creep attack directions caused him to miss about 80 damage to the Ancient in that one lane over consecutive turns. And he LOST the game.
So again, while some of the choices you can make probably are more skill intensive than HS, having RNG determine if you attack face when the path is open, or helping defend if there is a creep in the position next to you... If this game is supposed to be skill intensive with deep gameplay, why is that important part of your strategy and attack/defense left up completely to chance?
Yeah, when I saw the % sign in the text of some cards, I went "nope" and moved on.
I am not saying it's overly complex, or that you oversimplified. I'm simply saying that in my opinion one of the most important parts of your strategy is left up to a coin flip. 50% that a creep with a clear path will go straight and attack face/tower, 25% chance for going right, or for going left to attack a nearby enemy creep. I think the game would instantly be 20x more appealing to me if they made one change, and you had the choice of attacking straight, or helping to block a creep directly to the left/right of your creep. It seems like such an important part of the strategy and decision making of the game, and it's left all up to chance.
I'm sure it's that way because you can't control the creeps in DotA when they are running up a lane. But just because it's based on DotA shouldn't dictate this part of the game. Just my opinion, and a huge reason why I'll be skipping Artifact.
EDIT: Artifact choosing how your creeps attack for you is comparable to if every minion in Hearthstone had the attack effect of Kobold Barbarian at the end of your turn.
r/Artifact burning right now, not even Blizzard would sell you cards that you can obtain in starter decks, sad...
Wait, you mean that creating a heavily monetized business model in a heavily geared towards f2p market backfired? Who would have guessed that xD
Who is that? XD
Who is Nox?
--Alfi--
I do believe Artifact to be better than HS and more fun due to micro decisions BUT at the same time it seems to be hard to see the game take off from a niche player base.
The fact that u cant watch a stream of the game and understand whats going on is a big issue. U actually need to play the game to understand it THEN u can watch other ppl playing.
Add that to the fact that ppl know now that 20 bucks for pay to play won't be enough to enjoy the full game might create entry barriers that may be irreversible and damaging to the game's reputation
Honestly i do wish that with 40-50 bucks it will allow me to enjoy the game for months. On the other hand I actually wish Artifact to be one of the biggest flops in video game history.
Idk why i feel that way. I guess that some men just really wanna see the world burn
Former HS streamer who pretends to know how to play MtG, makes trash deck for Youtube and often whines when he loses to actually functioning decks.
Interesting, that hasn't been my experience. I have a good friend who owns several shops, and he always saves a certain amount of boxes specifically to sell to customers, and he never has any trouble selling them. I also have several friends/acquaintances that play competitively and buy at least one box every expansion.
As far as collectors/investors go, they are more likely to buy entire cases or pallets in the case of guys like Rudy from AlphaInvestments.
Lol. How kind of them. They are so caring about needs of the players.
It is a great idea to..... create some demand for crappy cards on the marketplace to get MOAR money.
I was able to take the 4.99 beginner whatever for MTGA, and now I have a competitive meta deck. I only have 1, but it works and I can enjoy the game on a competitive level if I choose to. That option simply won't be available for Artifact in terms of constructed, for those reason's I'm out as well; not a fan of how they integrated the open beta, but I remember getting a key for Dota 2 in beta and selling it for over 40 CDN...my point is Artifact is only for those with the cash to enjoy it, period.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
Have they announced the ability to disable those little deck gremlin things? Until they do, I'm not playing
Now that the cat's out of the bag, I wonder how people expected Artifact to be a competitor to HS at all
Big card games like HS are expensive. After playing HS, you become disillusioned by the reality of how much these things will cost you. If I had to start over my collection, I would quit on the spot because of how much it would cost me to rebuild. Starting a new collection on Artifact would be more or less the same thing, with maybe a bit of new gameplay. Maybe if I hadn't played HS, I would think this was a decent deal
Furthermore, I don't see any reason to play this over the multitudes of small indie digital card games that shower you with packs at every opportunity. The reason I still play HS in addition to them despite the costs is because of its existing community (including streams and tournaments). Artifact has the worst of both worlds ...
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Stancifka apparently changes to solely stream Artifact. It's a little bit a pity since he is one of the few streamers I liked to watch playing hearthstone (even since I am not really playing hearthstone any more). He explains his plays pretty well and he is also a quite successful gamer (although he almost only shows his wins on youtube). Nevertheless, I cannot imagine to watch him playing artifact. The vids from Artifact gameplay I watched so far were boring as fuck. Not a game I am interested at all.
The only reason I could think of somebody switching to solely stream Artifact after they grew their viewerbase from Hearthstone is simply that Valve is gonna be paying quite a bit to try and help promote the game (since the sheeple they've been paying to promote the game here on the forums haven't been working quite so well).
I agree on Artifact looking boring as fuck, I think reydad said it best in one of his highlights where he basicly says that the game is just numbers, you play stuff and at the end of the turn everything just happens, it's just math. Reminds me a lot on Gwent.
call me a noob... but I didn't have a clue what's goin' on when I first started watching hs also...
edit: and I caught up wit artifact after one or two tut videos.. and few matches... same as hs... :)