I think it's more or less the same thing with lol and Dota. Nobody wants to switch because you need to relearn all the new mechanics and you start with a fresh account. A lot of people switching games? I'm not really seeing that.
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
If a TCG game will get too complex then it won't have such success as HS or it won't even come close.
1. Not everyone has TCG minds.
2. It won't fit for mobile too much, which is often times on the go gameplay. HS is perfect for this as most powerful decks are those least difficult.
3. If a game is too difficult it also becomes too hard to watch on twitch so the competitive scene slows down. I mean if You get into the game then sure you'll understand everything happening on screen. HS isn't very complex so it's easier to get to know what's happening even without too much of HS experience.
This right here.
I think Artifact will be a great card game, probably better than HS but that won't be enough to make a dent on HS for the reasons u just said.
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
Just watch Kripp's video about "you can't go infinite in Artifact".
What bumps me out is the fact i cant grind packs and see my collection rise. I mean,after fun,i play HS mostly for that reason,watching my collection grow,waiting for the next legendary,is it normal or is it golden?what legendary is it?
Having players have all cards upfront isn't interesting to me .
What bumps me out is the fact i cant grind packs and see my collection rise. I mean,after fun,i play HS mostly for that reason,watching my collection grow,waiting for the next legendary,is it normal or is it golden?what legendary is it?
Having players have all cards upfront isn't interesting to me .
I believe Artifact is far of from giving you all the cards upfront.. I heard if you get unlucky you only get garbage hero’s for your 20 bucks.
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
You can't go infinte, because attending the Artifact arena-like game mode costs money (real money) and only after few wins you will get back the ticket and with max wins pack or two. So unless you win all the time without losses (and even Kripparian who is the best Arena player in world can't avoid 0-2 games), you cannot go infinite. See this:
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
You surely have an interesting definition of the word infinite.
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
Care to explain the economic model being all the rage in 90s so that I can debunk you?
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
You surely have an interesting definition of the word infinite.
Care to share it with us?
Cause I aint talking about the money to play modes, im talking about money to acquire cards. with careful planning u can go infinite as in pay op cards for the cheapest you can, maybe get an insight on whats changing the meta or predict whats gonna stick in the meta, buy those cards for cheap and when their value bumps up cause they are meta u can sell them for double triple the value as long as u still have a reliant deck to run of course.
that's it, im not talking about going into Arena like mode and try go infinite there, theres a market of cards, and even some cards that aren't good were thought to be good can be sold for higher price than it would be 2/3 days after. Example, everyone said Chameleos was gonna be op AF, day one if you got him you could sell him on the market for a higher value than the card would be worth a week later. this is what I mean, the fact that each card can be bought and sold on the steam market IS the economic model.
Artifact aint for F2Ps, u sink in a couple of dozens of dollars from day 1 and enjoy a card game as well as an investment in the market. seems fun and useful
Pay to actually continue to play the game?! no thank you!. I was willing to pay the 20$, but their pay system is just ridiculous. No way i will play that game.
steam market is a damn fraud. i mean look at all the CS:GO crap.... only reason it became so popular and worked for so long is because it was fueled by degenerates. guess more degenerates play FPSs than card games as well.
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
Care to explain the economic model being all the rage in 90s so that I can debunk you?
Wow that screams "I'm the owner of the truth". Thats the worst mindset anybody can have towards stranger. No way im replying to you sonny boy
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
You surely have an interesting definition of the word infinite.
Care to share it with us?
While I don't want to speak on behalf of the fellow you are questioning - lots of folks seem to think that they can play Artifact as if it were a stock market. In principle, once you pay an "entry fee" to begin collecting cards, you can simply sell the expensive ones you open in packs in order to purchase new cards as they come along . . . rinse and repeat for every expansion.
It won't work, for lots of pretty obvious reasons. Kripp posted a video a couple months ago on the "price of being competitive" for different games. A lot of IRL MtG players who want to be "local store tournament competitive" will buy a booster box of every expansion - $100+ a few times every year. It seems likely that Artifact is pursuing a similar kind of model - a relatively small player-base which is heavily invested in the game. If so, it wouldn't be too unlikely that players would have to spend a few hundred dollars every year in order to remain competitive. Some of that cost can be offset by selling old, expensive cards - I could sell my Mox Ruby in order to "buy" a few competitive decks - but ultimately, it isn't going to be a particularly effective economic strategy.
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
You surely have an interesting definition of the word infinite.
Care to share it with us?
While I don't want to speak on behalf of the fellow you are questioning - lots of folks seem to think that they can play Artifact as if it were a stock market. In principle, once you pay an "entry fee" to begin collecting cards, you can simply sell the expensive ones you open in packs in order to purchase new cards as they come along . . . rinse and repeat for every expansion.
It won't work, for lots of pretty obvious reasons. Kripp posted a video a couple months ago on the "price of being competitive" for different games. A lot of IRL MtG players who want to be "local store tournament competitive" will buy a booster box of every expansion - $100+ a few times every year. It seems likely that Artifact is pursuing a similar kind of model - a relatively small player-base which is heavily invested in the game. If so, it wouldn't be too unlikely that players would have to spend a few hundred dollars every year in order to remain competitive. Some of that cost can be offset by selling old, expensive cards - I could sell my Mox Ruby in order to "buy" a few competitive decks - but ultimately, it isn't going to be a particularly effective economic strategy.
i see, that might be something to keep an eye out. first few weeks will be a good test
Watched kripp's video. Draft format with MMR. That literally means 50% winrate, right?. That means that good players won't actually get more benefits from buying tickets with cash? This is a "brilliant" part of their economic system. This kind of draft looks like a worse way to get cards than just buying packs.
Assuming that I understand probabilities correctly and you have exact 50% winrate...
You'll get zero wins in 25% of runs. | EV 0.25*(-1) = -0.25 1 in 25% of runs | EV 0.25*(-1) = -0.25 2 in 18.75% of runs | EV 0.1875*(-1) = -0.25 3 in 12.5% of runs | EV 0.125*0 = 0 4 in 7.8125% of runs | EV 0.078125 * 2 ~ 0.16 5 in 10.9365%* of runs | EV 0.109356 * 4 ~ 0.44
Total EV is -0.15. That's mean you are playing $0.15 to play a single draft.
*It may look strange you are more likely to get 5 wins than 4. It is because that includes unfinished 6-2, 7-2, 8-2, 9-2... runs. 5-2 in an unlimited run is only 4.6875%
Artifact aint for F2Ps, u sink in a couple of dozens of dollars from day 1 and enjoy a card game as well as an investment in the market. seems fun and useful
The value of cards on the market depends on how many players play constructed though. In Hearthstone, constructed is the most popular game mode, but it is possible that for Artifact draft will be more popular. If that turns out to be the case, there could be more supply than demand for cards and market prices for cards would be pretty low.
The economic model of Artifact is beyond dumb. Good luck.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
Care to explain the economic model being all the rage in 90s so that I can debunk you?
Wow that screams "I'm the owner of the truth". Thats the worst mindset anybody can have towards stranger. No way im replying to you sonny boy
I'm telling you this because I'm pretty sure that you're completely wrong, like your understanding on how to go infinite was completely wrong as well as your understanding on how individual card price economy functions.
It won't work, for lots of pretty obvious reasons. Kripp posted a video a couple months ago on the "price of being competitive" for different games. A lot of IRL MtG players who want to be "local store tournament competitive" will buy a booster box of every expansion - $100+ a few times every year. It seems likely that Artifact is pursuing a similar kind of model - a relatively small player-base which is heavily invested in the game. If so, it wouldn't be too unlikely that players would have to spend a few hundred dollars every year in order to remain competitive. Some of that cost can be offset by selling old, expensive cards - I could sell my Mox Ruby in order to "buy" a few competitive decks - but ultimately, it isn't going to be a particularly effective economic strategy.
This is wrong.
Competitive MtG players don't buy booster boxes. Every competitive player knows that there is no value in buying boxes. Instead the buy singles online or from their LGS if it is selling singles. It is incredibly difficult for LGS to sell a booster box to anyone, let alone a competitive player, because casuals who are naive enough to buy them will sooner get them from Wall Mart at a very discounted prices. The store cracks the boxes and sells 3 pack bundles for draft events and that is usually the only way that boxes get sold out.
Competitive players who come from other games won't be buying boxes and packs of Artifact, I assure you. They will wait for the cards to hit the market and buy singles from there. It is smarter and cheaper to do so. I suspect that Valve knows this as well which is why the market is there in the first place. They will be earning bulk of their money from there.
Who buys boxes? Investors like me, finance newbies who hope to get some quick cash and collectors but we buy boxes because they will eventually go out of print. Once that happens the box price will only go up every year. Here there is no point in us spending money and sitting on unopened boxes that will never go out of stock :P
Artifact aint for F2Ps, u sink in a couple of dozens of dollars from day 1 and enjoy a card game as well as an investment in the market. seems fun and useful
The value of cards on the market depends on how many players play constructed though. In Hearthstone, constructed is the most popular game mode, but it is possible that for Artifact draft will be more popular. If that turns out to be the case, there could be more supply than demand for cards and market prices for cards would be pretty low.
I highly doubt that drafting will be more popular simply because... YOU NEED TO PLAY MONEY TO PLAY DRAFT.
Imagine they create a new, additional mode for Dota and say: you need to pay $0.03 per game and get it back if your team wins. How do you think, how popular would that be?
I think it's more or less the same thing with lol and Dota. Nobody wants to switch because you need to relearn all the new mechanics and you start with a fresh account. A lot of people switching games? I'm not really seeing that.
U kidding me? The economic model is what collectible cards were all about when they became popular in the mid 90's. U basically can go infinite with just 20 dollars upfront.
Ive seen a lot of doubts about Artifact concerning many aspects but each time i see someone going against its economy i just FacePalm on spot.
This right here.
I think Artifact will be a great card game, probably better than HS but that won't be enough to make a dent on HS for the reasons u just said.
Just watch Kripp's video about "you can't go infinite in Artifact".
What bumps me out is the fact i cant grind packs and see my collection rise. I mean,after fun,i play HS mostly for that reason,watching my collection grow,waiting for the next legendary,is it normal or is it golden?what legendary is it?
Having players have all cards upfront isn't interesting to me .
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
I believe Artifact is far of from giving you all the cards upfront.. I heard if you get unlucky you only get garbage hero’s for your 20 bucks.
You can't go infinte, because attending the Artifact arena-like game mode costs money (real money) and only after few wins you will get back the ticket and with max wins pack or two. So unless you win all the time without losses (and even Kripparian who is the best Arena player in world can't avoid 0-2 games), you cannot go infinite. See this:
--Alfi--
You surely have an interesting definition of the word infinite.
Care to share it with us?
Nope.
A shame the DOTA universe is a joke lol
Care to explain the economic model being all the rage in 90s so that I can debunk you?
Cause I aint talking about the money to play modes, im talking about money to acquire cards. with careful planning u can go infinite as in pay op cards for the cheapest you can, maybe get an insight on whats changing the meta or predict whats gonna stick in the meta, buy those cards for cheap and when their value bumps up cause they are meta u can sell them for double triple the value as long as u still have a reliant deck to run of course.
that's it, im not talking about going into Arena like mode and try go infinite there, theres a market of cards, and even some cards that aren't good were thought to be good can be sold for higher price than it would be 2/3 days after. Example, everyone said Chameleos was gonna be op AF, day one if you got him you could sell him on the market for a higher value than the card would be worth a week later. this is what I mean, the fact that each card can be bought and sold on the steam market IS the economic model.
Artifact aint for F2Ps, u sink in a couple of dozens of dollars from day 1 and enjoy a card game as well as an investment in the market. seems fun and useful
Pay to actually continue to play the game?! no thank you!. I was willing to pay the 20$, but their pay system is just ridiculous. No way i will play that game.
steam market is a damn fraud. i mean look at all the CS:GO crap.... only reason it became so popular and worked for so long is because it was fueled by degenerates. guess more degenerates play FPSs than card games as well.
Wow that screams "I'm the owner of the truth". Thats the worst mindset anybody can have towards stranger. No way im replying to you sonny boy
While I don't want to speak on behalf of the fellow you are questioning - lots of folks seem to think that they can play Artifact as if it were a stock market. In principle, once you pay an "entry fee" to begin collecting cards, you can simply sell the expensive ones you open in packs in order to purchase new cards as they come along . . . rinse and repeat for every expansion.
It won't work, for lots of pretty obvious reasons. Kripp posted a video a couple months ago on the "price of being competitive" for different games. A lot of IRL MtG players who want to be "local store tournament competitive" will buy a booster box of every expansion - $100+ a few times every year. It seems likely that Artifact is pursuing a similar kind of model - a relatively small player-base which is heavily invested in the game. If so, it wouldn't be too unlikely that players would have to spend a few hundred dollars every year in order to remain competitive. Some of that cost can be offset by selling old, expensive cards - I could sell my Mox Ruby in order to "buy" a few competitive decks - but ultimately, it isn't going to be a particularly effective economic strategy.
i see, that might be something to keep an eye out. first few weeks will be a good test
Watched kripp's video. Draft format with MMR. That literally means 50% winrate, right?. That means that good players won't actually get more benefits from buying tickets with cash? This is a "brilliant" part of their economic system. This kind of draft looks like a worse way to get cards than just buying packs.
Assuming that I understand probabilities correctly and you have exact 50% winrate...
You'll get zero wins in 25% of runs. | EV 0.25*(-1) = -0.25
1 in 25% of runs | EV 0.25*(-1) = -0.25
2 in 18.75% of runs | EV 0.1875*(-1) = -0.25
3 in 12.5% of runs | EV 0.125*0 = 0
4 in 7.8125% of runs | EV 0.078125 * 2 ~ 0.16
5 in 10.9365%* of runs | EV 0.109356 * 4 ~ 0.44
Total EV is -0.15. That's mean you are playing $0.15 to play a single draft.
*It may look strange you are more likely to get 5 wins than 4. It is because that includes unfinished 6-2, 7-2, 8-2, 9-2... runs. 5-2 in an unlimited run is only 4.6875%
The value of cards on the market depends on how many players play constructed though. In Hearthstone, constructed is the most popular game mode, but it is possible that for Artifact draft will be more popular. If that turns out to be the case, there could be more supply than demand for cards and market prices for cards would be pretty low.
I'm telling you this because I'm pretty sure that you're completely wrong, like your understanding on how to go infinite was completely wrong as well as your understanding on how individual card price economy functions.
This is wrong.
Competitive MtG players don't buy booster boxes. Every competitive player knows that there is no value in buying boxes. Instead the buy singles online or from their LGS if it is selling singles. It is incredibly difficult for LGS to sell a booster box to anyone, let alone a competitive player, because casuals who are naive enough to buy them will sooner get them from Wall Mart at a very discounted prices. The store cracks the boxes and sells 3 pack bundles for draft events and that is usually the only way that boxes get sold out.
Competitive players who come from other games won't be buying boxes and packs of Artifact, I assure you. They will wait for the cards to hit the market and buy singles from there. It is smarter and cheaper to do so. I suspect that Valve knows this as well which is why the market is there in the first place. They will be earning bulk of their money from there.
Who buys boxes? Investors like me, finance newbies who hope to get some quick cash and collectors but we buy boxes because they will eventually go out of print. Once that happens the box price will only go up every year. Here there is no point in us spending money and sitting on unopened boxes that will never go out of stock :P
I highly doubt that drafting will be more popular simply because... YOU NEED TO PLAY MONEY TO PLAY DRAFT.
Imagine they create a new, additional mode for Dota and say: you need to pay $0.03 per game and get it back if your team wins. How do you think, how popular would that be?