Hearthpwn

For warlocks to be able to just burn through the entire deck via discard, and then have the ability to draw continuously, having the opponent take all the dmgs and fatigue dmgs is just bs

It’s very easy when they discard hand of guldan via that 2/1 deathrattle to get two more hand of guldans, combined with two backfires, the soularium, and the card that burns the top 3 cards of each players deck - all combined with the weapon that reduces costs of card after drawing four cards. These and not even counting all the tiny minions and tap they got.

Quote from proptionstrade >>

 What I think yourself and many others that craft questlock might be failing to take into account is that D6 (which is the iteration that many GMs played and that many people have crafted) is a high skill cap decklist that can be incredibly strong in the hands of a top tier pro but not necessarily so much when piloted by the average player or even most people in legend. That deck actually does have a relatively low wr at every rank where it is played including legend, and the reason why is that it is difficult to play optimally. So I think context is important to take into account here.

 Hahahahahahahahahah what’s the skillcap? Draw draw draw discount, vomit stuff, heal, heal, clear board, have no punishment in decisions? Lol dude the warlock deck ain’t a science. The mirror match is not even decided by who pilots the deck better, but who draws better. Nice try pal… hearthstone ain’t that skilled and is def the joke of “esports”. Matter oF fact hearthstone “pros” are just there because they play 15-20 hours a day 🤣 of course the winrate will be flawless. While you sleep, or have sex or are at work they are playing nonstop “grinding” infinite to keep those spots month to month. Hearthstone in it’s current form it’s very poor on decision making and with discover and the rng% being so high, the game the least it has it’s “skillcap”.  

 Ok, you've clearly never played the deck and are also apparently incredibly salty, lol. D6 is difficult to play well. If you don't believe me feel free to ask any of your standard legend friends, if you have any. I myself am consistently high legend and am triple legend this month, and I had difficulty playing the deck optimally. It's not just "draw draw draw", you have to balance draw with completing the quest, clearing the board, and ensuring that your opponent doesn't kill you in the process. And there is considerable APM and decision making involved with any drawn out combos. Note that I am referring specifically to the D6 iteration of the archetype, not the giants version. 

Quote from proptionstrade >>

 

 What I think yourself and many others that craft questlock might be failing to take into account is that D6 (which is the iteration that many GMs played and that many people have crafted) is a high skill cap decklist that can be incredibly strong in the hands of a top tier pro but not necessarily so much when piloted by the average player or even most people in legend. That deck actually does have a relatively low wr at every rank where it is played including legend, and the reason why is that it is difficult to play optimally. So I think context is important to take into account here.

 And no, the reason it does poorly on ladder it’s because people are playing aggro af!! And teching decks with shit cards but that are good against those “solitaire” uninteractive trash decks. That’s why it does poorly and not even because it still even beats decks that are counter because of how broken it is. In tournaments you can ban in ladder you cannot. Can’t compare. 

This depends on where on ladder you're referring to. According to HSreplay, the top 3 decks in legend by play rate are D6, slightly modifed D6, and miracle druid, none of which are aggro. And no one is teching in terrible cards that are good against lock, lol. Like by all means, name one card that a popular decklist has teched in explicitly to counter questlock that is otherwise terrible. 

Everyone who says darkglare is not a problem aren't probably playing Wild, Warlocks literally complete their quest on turn 4, all their steps in one turn!!!

The change to quest only able to complete one step per turn isn't that bad of change. It would make it slowdown quite a lot.

You guys don't realize that Warlock is problematic in such a wide variety of angles than fixing the quest will do nothing. Quest Handlock is the best warlock deck available as it doesn't just straight up lose to aggro and it still shits on slow decks. And guess what? You barely even care about quest completion with that deck and you mainly run the quest for the step 1 and 2 rewards as they make your giants cheaper. But if the quest gets nerfed you can just start running rods and the deck is pretty much the same. So yeah, keep crying about stealer and darkglare and the quest and then you'll still have another reason to complain cause warlock won't go anywhere.

Quote from JYJ86 >>

For warlocks to be able to just burn through the entire deck via discard, and then have the ability to draw continuously, having the opponent take all the dmgs and fatigue dmgs is just bs

 Not just self damage and fatigue damage, but on their turn they can trade into my deathrattle minions to reflect that damage into me! I hadn't really considered that as part of the issue until I ran into it last night: Completed the Hunter quest to spawn up 3 Leper Gnomes, and then the warlock drops his quest reward, hits me with all his self damage stuff, and then uses the "1 damage to all" spell to pop them.

It felt really cheap and dirty and something that shouldn't be possible in the game. Self damage is one thing. Fatigue damage is another thing. And twisting deathrattles around back on their user without even using a tech card is something else completely.

Quote from Suikiele >>

Quote from JYJ86 >>

For warlocks to be able to just burn through the entire deck via discard, and then have the ability to draw continuously, having the opponent take all the dmgs and fatigue dmgs is just bs

 Not just self damage and fatigue damage, but on their turn they can trade into my deathrattle minions to reflect that damage into me! I hadn't really considered that as part of the issue until I ran into it last night: Completed the Hunter quest to spawn up 3 Leper Gnomes, and then the warlock drops his quest reward, hits me with all his self damage stuff, and then uses the "1 damage to all" spell to pop them.

It felt really cheap and dirty and something that shouldn't be possible in the game. Self damage is one thing. Fatigue damage is another thing. And twisting deathrattles around back on their user without even using a tech card is something else completely.

 Or you just read the wording on Tamsin and it’s clear…

Quote from Sevasmios >>

Quote from proptionstrade >>

 

 What I think yourself and many others that craft questlock might be failing to take into account is that D6 (which is the iteration that many GMs played and that many people have crafted) is a high skill cap decklist that can be incredibly strong in the hands of a top tier pro but not necessarily so much when piloted by the average player or even most people in legend. That deck actually does have a relatively low wr at every rank where it is played including legend, and the reason why is that it is difficult to play optimally. So I think context is important to take into account here.

 And no, the reason it does poorly on ladder it’s because people are playing aggro af!! And teching decks with shit cards but that are good against those “solitaire” uninteractive trash decks. That’s why it does poorly and not even because it still even beats decks that are counter because of how broken it is. In tournaments you can ban in ladder you cannot. Can’t compare. 

This depends on where on ladder you're referring to. According to HSreplay, the top 3 decks in legend by play rate are D6, slightly modifed D6, and miracle druid, none of which are aggro. And no one is teching in terrible cards that are good against lock, lol. Like by all means, name one card that a popular decklist has teched in explicitly to counter questlock that is otherwise terrible. 

I also think the reason you're seeing a lot of aggro with decent to good winrate across the ladder is, outside the fact that aggro is always good in Hearthstone (tempo good), is the collection of good combo decks pushing midrange and especially control completely out of the meta. So if you're queuing up with an aggro deck, even if it's not that good in isolation, you're guaranteed very few bad matchups.

Quote from Anarchy1 >>

Quote from Suikiele >>

Quote from JYJ86 >>

For warlocks to be able to just burn through the entire deck via discard, and then have the ability to draw continuously, having the opponent take all the dmgs and fatigue dmgs is just bs

 Not just self damage and fatigue damage, but on their turn they can trade into my deathrattle minions to reflect that damage into me! I hadn't really considered that as part of the issue until I ran into it last night: Completed the Hunter quest to spawn up 3 Leper Gnomes, and then the warlock drops his quest reward, hits me with all his self damage stuff, and then uses the "1 damage to all" spell to pop them.

It felt really cheap and dirty and something that shouldn't be possible in the game. Self damage is one thing. Fatigue damage is another thing. And twisting deathrattles around back on their user without even using a tech card is something else completely.

 Or you just read the wording on Tamsin and it’s clear…

 Uncertain exactly what you are implying. Do you think it's healthy for the game to have a quest reward card effectively Uno-Reverse deathrattle minion damage for the remainder of the game on that person's turn? My point was that it seems bit much on top of their already redirected intentional self damage and all future fatigue damage.

The Demon Seed - The step thresholds are in reverse i.e. you need 8 dmg first, then 7 and finally 6. 

Sorcerer's Gambit - Randomise spell schools per each step or fix them at 3x frost, 3x fire, 3x arcane for each step. 

Finally they need to kill 0 mana cards (with only some exceptions where this happens, not that your turn is 10+ cards that cost 1 or less).

And Warlock reward should be changed completely, it limits design space, everytime self hurt card is released it either does nothing to the deck or make it more powerful. Also any deck that is bit slower automatically dies. Ok you wanna kill games that go 10+ turns but do you really want games to end at turn 5 or 6 with inevitability?

If really they go like "haha screw long games and control decks" and start pushing out really obnoxious aggressive cards, I will have to really leave this game.

Also are they gonna even release cards that cost 6+ mana anymore? If they do it is just money bait for addiction, you know it won't work anymore. (unless the card says cost less for X shit you did before and now it cost 0 of course).

And on the last note, start releasing punishing minions against these decks. 1/4 2 mana, rare: "Whenever player plays a card, deal 2 damage to them" (would be maybe even buff to Warlock lol) 

or

2/4, 3 mana: "Whenever player plays a card make another card in their hand cost 1 more".

For those who want Warlock Questline changed/reworked, how would you do it?

Take 7/8/9 self dmg

.

Quote from kossza >>

I would change the reward instead of the quest.

Blightborn Tamsin
Battlecry: For the rest of the game, damage you take on your turn damages your opponent too.

 This is the only real solution. I think it's a good thing having fatigue damage apply to opponent, but NOT a good thing that Warlock can do it with reckless abandon.

I'd also change Stealer of Souls to be a Battlecry effecting the next 1 card drawn (at a more reasonable cost, perhaps). I'm sorry but there is literally no cost where a static "blood cost" is okay.

Hmm, if i could choose. I would change reward so that instead of damaging my opponent, it would heal my face instead. Problem solved. The only problem i have with this solution is that thematically so much heals doesn't suit warlock.