Hearthpwn

Quote from Berdy >>

 Sounds an awful lot like they were in a verbal argument and she hit him twice. At which point he subdued her from hitting him again. After a night sleeping on it he told her to leave because she was physically abusive. Words aren't violence. Violence is violence. What a jerk she is. Also sounds jealous. This is an overstep from hearthstone esports. You're not a court of law.

 That's exactly why you hold a pillow over someone's face... to subdue them from hitting you again. You don't consider that violent?

You could see from his interactions with his chat on stream, but also with people he shared the stream with that he had a god complex, and a lot of other issues. I am glad to see him plummet.

Do you know why Blizzard did this? Its not because they believe the ex-girlfriend or want Zalae punished.

Its because a lot of people are foolish sheep. And those people will without any proof of Zalae's actions say stuff like ,,Blizzard is condoning abuse of women! ,, and ,,I am not gonna buy stuff from Blizzard and neither should you because they support this women abuser,, . And if something on the internet is said enough times...it becomes ,,truth,, .

Blizzard has the right to do this...and they did so to save face from these sheep.

Its unfortunate if Zalae is innocent...but it's just the way it is.

Quote from Psy_Kik >>

Again, I'd be using UK numbers rather US, but the reason abuse and assault numbers often get bundled with rape is they are both generally highlighted in relation to women and pitifully low conviction rates. I imagine the US justice system is much the same.

The implication is that the numbers are so low, that even the most staunch mysogynist would accept that, despite the variances you get from case to case, false accusations, dropped charges, etc that huge numbers of women (and likely huge majority compared to actual convictions) are being failed by the justice system. Women's rights activists would also point out that however many false accusations and such there are, these are vastly outweighed by the number of women who chose not to press charges in these circumstances, for fear of the system failing them, which arguably drops the % to truly abysmal sub-1% levels.

This creates the atmosphere in which companies have to be proactive in cases such as this Zalae's, and it's bad for everyone.

 It's hard to even make an educated guess on the unreported rape/sexual assault numbers, because . . . well, because they're unreported.  I would hope we've made some progress convincing women there's hope for justice, but I've personally observed a disturbingly large number of women in college who would claim to be a victim but were unwilling to attempt to press charges.

@ Diet

I chose rape statistics because assault stats are incredibly convoluted with all the different degrees.  In some studies, cat calling and whistling in close proximity to a woman have been included as instances of sexual assault, and regardless of legal definition, that sort of incident doesn't really apply to the situation here.  I do understand she did not accuse him of rape, though.

As for the Kavanaugh case, in the last post I brought him up because that's where all the rape stat studies I read originated.  In previous posts, he was just an example of someone who was persecuted in public opinion and the media without evidence.

@ Benelocky

That's 100% correct.  I don't really expect the corporations to be the agents of change in cases like these.  The only thing we as individuals can work on is our own response to these accusations.  Maybe one day, we can return a little sanity to the whole court of public opinion, but for now, I'd settle for just showing a company they don't need to jump the gun and ostracize someone just because of the accusation.

what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

people shouldn't be banned until proven guilty in a court.

Quote from Fina >>

I'm not 100% sure of how everything has played out or how the victim has proceeded with her claim but I feel that if someone has feelings these strong about their abuser they should first make a police report. That also means publicly shaming or revealing all details would damage her claims as they have not been through due process. If she made those claims online and changed any part of her story she would lose, not very smart on her behalf. She also claimed that she didn't want to affect his career but that is exactly what she did, there are many ways to deal with this before doing what she did. Not saying he's innocent but I'm getting the sense that she's a scorned woman. There's a difference between making something known (after due process) and enlightening the public or her fans after he has been Convicted or with small details that will later be revealed. Whether he is guilty or innocent I believe she has shown her true colours, she's obviously not innocent herself. If he's convicted.....see you later bud, if not his career and public image is still damaged. Not to mention she highlighted parts of their sex life, what she said was not even close to relevant to anything related to this. I don't want to minimize the effect of any domestic abuse or the seriousness but she's not making a good case in my eyes based on the way she's handling this. 

 I know a case where someone attempted to rape a woman that is pretty close to me and when she went to the police, they were asking her questions like "Did you wear any clothes that might have given the impression that you are fine with this kind of behaviour?". Do you understand what questions like these mean in terms of trusting the police? There are people out there who experience this kind of crap every day and you have nothing better to do than assume that she didn't go to the police first and that her behaviour wasn't "smart"? It might also not be super easy to talk or write about a topic like this when it happens to you. You have (potentially) been a victim of a crime that happens to others basically all the time, go to the police or make it public and bricks like some here in the forum accuse you for speaking up. Seriously? Did you ever think about that? You should talk to victims of these kinds of crimes before calling someone a "scorned woman". That is also allegations, by the way. People who argue like that really shouldn't criticise Blizzard for their behaviour being based on allegations.

This is so wrong on so many levels that I can't even imagine what kind of a person wrote it.

remember when someone harassed amaz about it?  and said that he tried to do some questionable things... and this was a lady.. and he came out of the closet.. he plays for the other team?  HOW does that even work good story there crazy lady

Your comment about the police is fictional and deplorable.  I work with law enforcement.  That anti-rape evidence position is a 3rd wave feminist canard.  No would ask such an irrelevant question in an interview and they are specifically given that as an example of what not to say in training.  "Listen and Believe" is a terrible strategy.  An accusation is not proof and an accuser is not a victim until AFTER a trial.

Quote from Anukai036 >>

what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

people shouldn't be banned until proven guilty in a court.

 That isn’t how it works. Perhaps you have heard of at-will employment? Or codes of conduct at companies? I don’t know what jobs you’ve had in your life, but are you saying that conviction of a felony is the only way to get fired from a job?

Quote from SingedSorceror >>

Your comment about the police is fictional and deplorable.  I work with law enforcement.  That anti-rape evidence position is a 3rd wave feminist canard.  No would ask such an irrelevant question in an interview and they are specifically given that as an example of what not to say in training.  "Listen and Believe" is a terrible strategy.  An accusation is not proof and an accuser is not a victim until AFTER a trial.

 The victim terminology is used well before a conviction, and constantly during trials.

Educate yourself; it might help you at your supposed law enforcement job.

https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/21940-use-of-the-term-victim-in-crim-proc11th-edpdf

The burden of proof is always on the plaintiff. I’m not victim blaming, but there have DEFINITELY been enough cases of fraudulent accusations to warrant doubt until proven guilty.

I would be appalled if someone got injured through whatever means, and then accused me of causing the injury in a fraudulent attempt to get money. 

Again, not victim shaming whatsoever, but due diligence is necessary. We have a legal system for a reason, despite its flaws like anything. 

Quote from Malfurious >>

Quote from Anukai036 >>

what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

people shouldn't be banned until proven guilty in a court.

 That isn’t how it works. Perhaps you have heard of at-will employment? Or codes of conduct at companies? I don’t know what jobs you’ve had in your life, but are you saying that conviction of a felony is the only way to get fired from a job?

 Why do you willfully ignore his use of the word "should"?

We're talking about what should be, not what is.  We're all aware of the injustice false accusations visit almost without fail.

Also, in your rush to "educate", you mentioned an example that has nothing to do whatsoever with the topic at hand.  Codes of conduct have nothing to do with others' accusations.  There are certainly other clauses in a contract that can be used to break an obligation at the first sign of a PR problem, but codes of conduct don't touch on what is being discussed here unless the behavior was actually performed by the accused.

Quote from SingedSorceror >>

Your comment about the police is fictional and deplorable.  I work with law enforcement.  That anti-rape evidence position is a 3rd wave feminist canard.  No would ask such an irrelevant question in an interview and they are specifically given that as an example of what not to say in training.  "Listen and Believe" is a terrible strategy.  An accusation is not proof and an accuser is not a victim until AFTER a trial.

 It is up to you whether you believe me that this has happened, but I know that it did happen (because I trust close friends/family members a little more than what some random person tells me about training in their country (which, for that matter, might have different standards for police training than mine)). And it is infuriating that something like that still happened in 2020. It is obvious that people are (or better should be) innocent until proven guilty, even people who actually did commit a crime, and I am not starting a discussion about that because I totally agree that accusing someone isn't the same as proving that a crime was committed.

However, if you think that people will only act according to textbook (or training, as you said), you are a bit too trustful. Sure, this might have been an extreme case, but that doesn't mean that these kinds of questions aren't asked.

Quote from D_Lord >>

Quote from SingedSorceror >>

Your comment about the police is fictional and deplorable.  I work with law enforcement.  That anti-rape evidence position is a 3rd wave feminist canard.  No would ask such an irrelevant question in an interview and they are specifically given that as an example of what not to say in training.  "Listen and Believe" is a terrible strategy.  An accusation is not proof and an accuser is not a victim until AFTER a trial.

 It is up to you whether you believe me that this has happened, but I know that it did happen (because I trust close friends/family members a little more than what some random person tells me about training in their country (which, for that matter, might have different standards for police training than mine)). And it is infuriating that something like that still happened in 2020. It is obvious that people are (or better should be) innocent until proven guilty, even people who actually did commit a crime, and I am not starting a discussion about that because I totally agree that accusing someone isn't the same as proving that a crime was committed.

However, if you think that people will only act according to textbook (or training, as you said), you are a bit too trustful. Sure, this might have been an extreme case, but that doesn't mean that these kinds of questions aren't asked.

 Not doubting your personal experience but that also doesn't necessarily translate to a generalised view of how all law enforcement act. Police are still just people and they will have specific beliefs and bias, you get get one's and bad ones as well as everything in between. 

The over aching question is what happens in these situations? People have voiced concerns about being judged as guilty before a trial and there's been posts from each side that seem to have their kind set one way or another and that's sort of the point.

There aren't simply 2 actions here - condemn the alleged victim or the accused. There's a middle ground whereby Blizzard is within their rights to suspend participation until an outcome is reached and where they remain impartial in the meantime. It's reasonable to suspend him from esports but they also have to be careful not to essentially assume he is guilty because if he's not found guilty, then the damage done by that may be irreparable. 

I couldn't agree more, P4dge!

It was one example of what has happened, not a general picture. I absolutely respect people who work for Police.

My point was that people complain about Zalae being accused before there is proof (and rightfully so), but then there are posts who accuse her of being a liar or even worse, which also isn't particularly fair and happens in real life as well. If you want everyone to be innocent until proven guilty (and that's what we should aim for), then that counts for the accusers as much as for the accused.

I think I already mentioned in another comment that I am besically neutral about Blizzard suspending him, exactly for the reasons you describe. What I am not neutral about is victim blaming (or potential victim blaming, if you want to be more specific).

So are there any reasons to believe that story?

As usual in this situation, there aren't any criminal charges filed so there won't be any finding of fact.  Accusations will tarnish reputations permanently with no actual resolution.

I know nothing of either party but the concept of ruining innocent peoples lives in some attempt to even the scales is absurd to me.

If there’s no proof of any wrongdoing then people shouldn’t be punished in any way. That’s for the courts to decide.

It might be far from perfect but it’s a fuck tonne better than kangaroo courts run through Twitter.

Quote from Kinkyjohnfowler >>

I know nothing of either party but the concept of ruining innocent peoples lives in some attempt to even the scales is absurd to me.

If there’s no proof of any wrongdoing then people shouldn’t be punished in any way. That’s for the courts to decide.

Courts decide on matters of law. Companies, like Blizzard, are allowed to have their own internal policies and decision-making processes. Suspending a player who has been accused of something as serious as domestic abuse isn't a disproportionate response.