Hearthpwn

Quote from SlydE >>

• Jon goes back to the Wall even though it serves no purpose anymore. I laughed at that scene for quite a while, but what even is the point of it now? Wildlings aren't enemies anymore, and the Long Night is done with. The Wall is a penal colony with essentially no function besides being a dumpster for criminals, then? Nice of Tormund to wait for Jon to show up before moving out, though. Maybe he learned with Bran to see the future.

Tyrion explained it perfectly: The new night's watch is just a place to send off people they can't execute but should be removed from society. Who knows what happens up there in the future, having an outpost sounds reasonable to me. I think of it how Soviet sent people to Siberia. Did he even start a new night's watch or just join the wildlings, something he quite enjoyed earlier.

The unsullied and Dothraki were a very real millitary threat and killing Dany was controversial among others as well. You can't start a new and more just system of choosing a ruler by letting the slayer of the last one go free.

As for the North being independant, it just had to end like that, foreshadwing what will happen to Scotland after Brexit;-) It would have taken too much explaining to justify the reasons of the others to remain under a unified nation, but there are very good reasons be united too! Sansa just knew her people could not be a part of it.

 I get what you are saying, but calling Daenerys an old ruler is a bit of a stretch. She got there, razed the place, and then was killed for doing so. Besides Yara, most of her allies were loyal to Jon above her. And we've had this situation before, where Jaime earned himself a pardon for committing treason, just because he did it for the winning side against an even greater tyrant.

About the Wall... meh, fair enough. I do remember Tyrion's description of its new purpose. It just didn't make me very happy or satisfied to see something that was formerly so significant reduced to a penal colony with no further reason to be.

As for the North's independence and other kingdoms, while I have no doubt there are advantages to staying united, I still do not understand Sansa's move or everyone's complacency with it. The Iron Throne is under a Stark, one with a decent claim for the kingdom of the North too. Shouldn't her people choose like they did with Robb and Jon? Wouldn't other rulers in the heat of the moment make some detrimental demand about their own freedom? Though that I understand. There wasn't much time left, so filling it with pointless political arguing was probably not optimal.

Can anyone explain why Drogon did not kill Jon in the finale? Is it because he is a Targaryen? Could it be because Drogon saw how crazy Dany was getting and agreed she would not be the right ruler?

I was going to be done with this, because after all, the show ended terribly and how long can we dwell on it?

However, Kit Harington gives this interview where he says critics can all go fuck themselves because, "I know how hard everyone worked."

All the YouTubers are trying to reconcile this, saying we're not lamenting the amount of work done, but the writing problems.

I say, "you can go fuck yourself, Jon Snow."  You worked really hard?  Yeah, so hard that you couldn't be fucked to get your GOD DAMN STARBUCKS CUP OUT OF THE SHOT.  Oh?  It was a one-time mistake.  No it wasn't, now we have water bottles.

And I know you worked too hard to actually shoot an ending that isn't a recut from season 4.

This kind of shit reminds me what we all should already know.  All of the Hollywood scene is completely divorced from reality.  I learned a lot here, and I have to say, I'm going to give far less of my money to these clowns in the future.

Quote from Zpbridge >>

Can anyone explain why Drogon did not kill Jon in the finale? Is it because he is a Targaryen? Could it be because Drogon saw how crazy Dany was getting and agreed she would not be the right ruler?

Well, Dany had a sword in her and there was a suspicious looking construct of swords nearby.  Obviously, Jon was completely innocent and it was the throne that did her in.  That's why Drogon took the time to murder it good /s

Quote from Zpbridge >>

Can anyone explain why Drogon did not kill Jon in the finale? Is it because he is a Targaryen? Could it be because Drogon saw how crazy Dany was getting and agreed she would not be the right ruler?

Both in the series and the books is stated that Dragons are as intelligent as humans so I think the reason Drogon melted the throne and didn't kill Jon is because he knew that what Jon did was right and that it was the throne the one to blame for Dany's death... 

D&D :  We really hope this ending is like Breaking Bad where people were conflicted if it's an A or an A+

They broke finale records, alright.  For reference, this is several stars worse than all the other infamously controversial finales like those of Lost, the Sopranos, How I met your Mother, True Blood, etc

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

D&D :  We really hope this ending is like Breaking Bad where people were conflicted if it's an A or an A+

They broke finale records, alright.  For reference, this is several stars worse than all the other infamously bad finales like those of Lost, the Sopranos, How I met your Mother, True Blood, etc

 The Sopranos ending was magnificent.

9.1 in Imdb for reference.

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

D&D :  We really hope this ending is like Breaking Bad where people were conflicted if it's an A or an A+

They broke finale records, alright.  For reference, this is several stars worse than all the other infamously bad finales like those of Lost, the Sopranos, How I met your Mother, True Blood, etc

 Wow officially worse than the Dexter finale? That was a real shit show too. I hope d&d get fired from Star Wars already lol

Quote from SamHobbs494 >>

Wow officially worse than the Dexter finale? That was a real shit show too. I hope d&d get fired from Star Wars already lol

HBO initially wanted full 10 episode seasons (maybe even more seasons altogether) but D&D said they can wrap it up fine in only 6.  That was an obvious lie so I can only assume they wanted to get this done fast so they can start making the big bucks doing Star Wars.  The irony of them getting removed from the project due to poor performance here would be true justice 

 The Sopranos ending was magnificent.

I wouldn't know.  I didn't make it that far.  But I do remember it was considered highly controversial by a lot of fans.  Maybe that's a better word for it

 I get what you are saying, but calling Daenerys an old ruler is a bit of a stretch. She got there, razed the place, and then was killed for doing so. Besides Yara, most of her allies were loyal to Jon above her. And we've had this situation before, where Jaime earned himself a pardon for committing treason, just because he did it for the winning side against an even greater tyrant.

Is it really a stretch? She had amassed a huge army loyal to her, and it was still there. I don't think ignoring the wishes of the ones going far from home only to fight for her was a viable option. The Jamie story was controversial, the name "Kingslayer" followed him for the rest of his life despite his intentions. I think that showed how NOT to deal with the situation, and with the loyal army present it was impossible.

There were a lot of things that annoyed me about the season but I was ok with the final resolution.

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

D&D :  We really hope this ending is like Breaking Bad where people were conflicted if it's an A or an A+

They broke finale records, alright.  For reference, this is several stars worse than all the other infamously controversial finales like those of Lost, the Sopranos, How I met your Mother, True Blood, etc

 I am seriously disgusted that they even dare compare their work to Breaking Bad. These guys become more unlikeable by the day.

All Hail Bran the Broken, Chief Autist in charge, rule on the iron wheelchair. Just imagining dealing with any sort of crisis would be hilarious "y'know I'M like...the three eyed raven and I don't care about any of this"

fucking hell, what a shitshow.

I'm not even upset anymore, just incredibly bored.

Arya was completely useless for basically 5/6 episodes, Jon is still a whiny bitchboy and now apparently a hippie. Grey worm just kind of goes on a vacation with the boys (what even are the DOthraki doing? Why would they follow him, why wouldn't they just go and pillage the countryside, it's not like anyone can stop them)

Remember when Bronn was sent to kill Tyrion, then did nothing for the entire season? Guess we needed a reason for him not to be in King'S Landing so he can be appointed to a position he's completely unqualified for.

Sansa basically just declared herself independent after her brother was named king...nepotism much? why even do that at all, your f***Ing brother is king, you're literally just creating an opposing center of power which will probably lead to more conflicts after you two have kicked the bucket

Arya just randomly decides to go full Columbus....I hope she dies of fucking scurvy.

oh yeah, why exactly was Tormund waiting at Castle Black? Did he just kind of hope Jon would come along at some point?

also props to them for cutting right after Jon killed Dany. Wouldn't want to actually show how veverything went down

"so...uh...this might sound weird...but I just killed our queen, then her dragon melted the iron throne and flew away with her corpse"

You'd think he would have been killed by a horde of angry svages and eunuchs at the spot, given how grey Worm literally commits war crimes on the daily at this point

Oh, also a big F*** YOU to all the people who went "but Dany just snapped and went insane, she doesn't make rational decisions". Well she seemed pretty in control of herself and blissfully ignorant of the genocide she just committed. I'd dare eeven say she was more erratic BEFORE she went supposedly "crazy"

oh yeah, why exactly was Tormund waiting at Castle Black? Did he just kind of hope Jon would come along at some point?

This complaint makes no sense. It takes weeks to do that travel. Send a raven to Winterfell and then a messenger to the wildlings he is coming. Hearing about his destiny it makes perfect sense to send a welcoming party to greet their hero. Alternatively, they held some people back to wait for him when they heard about his arrival, those were clearly not all the wildlings.

You'd think he would have been killed by a horde of angry svages and eunuchs at the spot, given how grey Worm literally commits war crimes on the daily at this point

Why? They knew perfectly well how much support Jon had, killing him would have doomed them all. Dany was the only thing holding the fragile army alliance together and they lost their weapon of mass destruction.

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

oh yeah, why exactly was Tormund waiting at Castle Black? Did he just kind of hope Jon would come along at some point?

 Actually he said, they would w8 until the end of the winter.

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

What even are the DOthraki doing? Why would they follow him, why wouldn't they just go and pillage the countryside, it's not like anyone can stop them

Technically Jon should be their new leader based on their own culture after he killed Dany.  All hail Khal Jon!  lol

I dont think anything about the finale was wrong in the literal sense, but it felt like a completely farcical squandering of potential. Characters were very weakly changed to something that they were not - there was no depth to anything, nothing relatable and nothing to make you invest (or at least very few moments - when Tyrion frees Jaime for example) - so I would argue the characters were changed rather than developed. This is bad storytelling.

The White Walker plot line was fantastic but was then just suddenly over. There was no explanation for any of it, just a rubbish line by Sam to say "the night king wants to kill Brann because he is the three eyed raven which is the memory of people, death is when people lose memory, which is why he wants to kill him" ????????? I get the sentiment but it's missing the "so what". Why not take the extra 30 seconds to say The Night King wants to destroy humanities memory so that the living lose their connection to what makes them human and they effectively become White Walkers. The Night King rules their consciousness, eternal and unending as the 'one true king of all'. In that sense the Night King is the literal embodiment of death. He is defeated by <insert nature based plot device - probably something to do with babies as per earlier plotline> because there must be balance between life and death.        Hey look I wrote a better plotline whilst taking a shit at work.

The Jaime/Brienne plot was nice up until the point the writers remembered that Jaime really needed to fuck off to King's Landing because of the prophecy. It was then just randomly stopped and he rides off in the middle of the night.

Arya has one moment in the entire season and otherwise relates in no way to anything else that happened through the entire programme other than she learned to fight and is badass. Nothing about the God of death eventually catching up to her ("not today"). With above plotline they could have had something about the forces of the God of death and the night king being 'at war' or even the night king being the God of death's agent as much as arya was. She could have realised this and gone back to the temple to uncover some interesting subplot about night king and killed some assholes.

In fact, none of the starks ever really had any tie back to Ned's death - nothing to pay off his honour. Nothing to even point out that his honour got him nowhere at the end of it all. I guess that captures my problem - the ending just did nothing with most of what had happened since the beginning.... I'm going to finish here because I need to do some work :D

Quote from macadow >>

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

oh yeah, why exactly was Tormund waiting at Castle Black? Did he just kind of hope Jon would come along at some point?

 Actually he said, they would w8 until the end of the winter.

 fair enough, can't expect me to listen to all of the inept dialogue

Quote from Thezzy >>

That Drogon understood the complexities of Dany and the Iron Throne without having seen any of it felt a bit of a stretch but OK, Dragons are intelligent and magical so sure.

But how did Grey Worm not just instantly execute Jon on the spot? Like he would care about the Northern response. I was sure Jon would instantly be dead, as he is far too honorable to try and get away or something like that.

My own version:

I did image the entire thing to end differently due to vast conflicting differences between Jon and Dany and Jon being too honorable (just like Ned) to kill her for the sake of everyone else. I also would have preferred Rhaegal to have died in the Battle of King's Landing to give a Dany a more acceptable reason for snapping and giving some more realistic credit to the scorpions.

I imagined that between Jon and Dany the conversation would lead to Jon outright stating he cannot follow a queen that would burn cities to the ground that had already surrendered and were full of innocent people (and then Jon would be far more emotional and fuming about it). Dany would in turn consider him a traitor for it and try and have him executed in the Great Hall (to also ensure he can never take the throne from her as Aegon). Naturally Dany would use Drogon for this, but this time, Drogon (knowing Jon and seeing Dany act strangely) would hesitate, causing Dany to maddingly scream to burn Jon. The Northern forces present would try to intervene but are held back by Unsullied and Dothraki. Drogon now sees the madness in Dany's eyes and outright refuses to burn Jon, sending Dany over the edge that her own dragon won't listen to her.

Ordering Grey Worm to do it instead, Drogon then gets in between (as Jon is also a Targaryen) to defend him. Dany, lost in madness, orders Grey Worm to kill Jon anyway, causing Drogon to knock him away and the Unsullied to raise theirs spears against him. Drogon then looks at Dany, tearfully wondering if she would truly let them harm him. With Jon still in danger, Drogon lets Jon mount him and tries to slowly move away, causing Dany to get up and scream to the Unsullied to kill Jon, making them attack. Drogon angrily attacks back and burn some of them. Seeing how far her mother is now gone, Drogon whimperingly but with fury locks faces with Dany before melting the Iron Throne with his fire and moving off. Jon sees the Northern forces from Drogon's back and orders them to retreat and leave the city. With Drogon now effectively on Jon's side, the Unsullied and Dothraki can't prevent them from doing so.

Jon, having had more than enough of fighting and bloodshed, falls back to far outside of King's Landing with the Northern forces and Drogon, hoping that without Drogon and only half of the Unsullied and Dothraki (due to the Battle of Winterfell) that Dany can't make good on her vision of ruling the world. Jon orders the Northern forces to make camp some distance away from King's Landing and together with Drogon mourns the loss of the Dany they knew and loved.

Dany, fuming at the thought that her own dragon switches sides (to Jon of all people) only worsens her condition and sees them all as traitors. Grey Worm (still alive as Drogon only knocked him away) comes up with a plan to attack the Northern camp under cover of night, sneaking into the camp and bringing her Jon's head. The few remaining Dothraki would wait outside the camp and ensure no one escapes. Even though Jon now has Drogon and the Northern forces are still formidable, both Grey Worm and Dany are clearly lost to rage and Dany agrees to the plan.

During the following night, the Unsulled begin to sneak into the camp, killing anyone who may give them away. Grey Worm finds the main tent that is Jon's but finds it empty. Jon was unable to sleep with everything that had happened and is wondering outside the camp with his thoughts. Hearing some noises, he begins to return to the camp and is quickly spotted by the Unsullied. Before he can alert his men, Grey Worm throws his spear at him, which Jon can't completely dodge and is hit in the shoulder. Suddenly Drogon roars loudly, having been nearby covered by the darkness. His roar wakes up all the Northen men and a big melee ensures. Drogon defends Jon from any Unsullied as Davos and some Northern men reach Jon and tend to him as they see the Dothraki joining in with the Unsullied.

With Unsullied/Dothraki and Northerners mixed together in a big melee, Drogon can only effectively defend Jon as breathing fire would burn down the Northern troops as well. Jon sees this and has Davos order the Northern men to try and come together and form something of a battle line to give Drogon patches of Unsullied/Dothraki to target. This works only partially due to the chaos of combat but eventually Drogon is able to pick off enough Unsullied/Dothraki to force a stalemate as both sides begin to form battle lines.

With the Unsullied having failed to kill them all in their sleep, Jon (injured but alive) struggles to get near the front and orders Grey Worm to stand down, noting that Drogon will burn him and all of the Unsullied and Dothraki if he doesn't and that there has been far too much bloodshed already. Jon tries to appeal to Grey Worm that Dany has gone mad and that it should end here. Grey Worm, still competely loyal to Dany and tired of Jon's words and attempts at what he sees as weakness, throws another spear at Jon in defiance, but only hits another Northerner. Before Jon can even say anything, the enraged Northeners attack the Unsullied and Drogon burns the Unsullied/Dothraki rear with his fire.

By early dawn, Jon with the remaining Northenerns and Drogon stand victorious but again at a massive loss of life. Jon is still being tended too, looking completely (heart)broken having seen so much unneeded slaughter at the hands of his former love. With Dany now only having a token force to defend herself with and no dragon, Davos urges Jon to finish it for the sake of everyone. Jon clearly still struggles with the thought but realizes there is no other way and has his remaining forces and Drogon march back towards King's Landing.

Once there the remaining Unsullied still loyally attempt to defend their queen but are swiftly defeated. To Jon's surprise, what few Dothraki still remain are nowhere to be seen. As Jon and his forces move towards the Great Hall, Dany's screams and ravings slowly become louder and Jon's remaining composure begins to fall apart. Finding Dany sitting next to the smoldered mess that was once the Iron Throne and Drogon arriving through the massive gap in the Great Hall, Jon tells her tearfully that it's over. Dany, shaking and with madness and tiredness clearly in her eyes loudly raves to Jon at first but then aims her fury at Drogon. Screaming that he betrayed her and that it's all his fault and even throwing some rocks at him, Drogon can only whimper at his mother's painful and crazed behavior.

As Jon nears, one hand on Longclaw, Dany screams at him to do it, to murder his own queen in front her only remaining child (Drogon). Crying, Jon instead just hugs her, knowing full well that Dany is no longer any threat just by herself without no forces to command. As Dany raves and cries he orders Davos to put her in chains and lock her away, falling to the floor in despair with Drogon nearing in shared grief.

Jon then gathers with the remaining leaders and noblemen and discuss the future as a temporary new council. While many want Dany's head, Jon strongly denies this, once again stating that there has been enough killing and that Dany is no longer any threat and will remain in captivity under heavy guard for all time. The council then turns to who should now be king. Jon immediately states he never wanted the throne, even noting that there isn't even an Iron Throne to begin with. The council quickly notes however that many saw Jon trying to stop the carnage in King's Landing, is popular with both his men and the people and that many of the people believe that he is the one who stopped Dany by taking Drogon away from her. The people want him and Davos reminds him that if he wants to ensure peace and stop any further bloodshed, taking the throne is the best way to do it. Knowing Davos is right, Jon reluctantly accepts and is crowned King of the Seven Kingsdoms, ending hostilities and bringing peace to the realm.

 Okay, that went on a bit longer than expected. Oh well.

 no you misunderstand

Drogon flew up there, saw Dany with a knife sticking out of her chest, then spots the chair made of swords and puts two and two together :^)