Hearthpwn

Quote from robpcom3 >>

Quote from YJHS2000 >>

Quote from GetchX >>

  Except Dany would never do this, and was done for the sake of the plot and to be "shocking".

 

 Let's take a look at what Dany has done throughout the show, shall we?

• Dany threatens to cut off her brother's hands if he hits her again
• Dany watches without emotion as her older brother (heir to the throne over her) is melted to death by her husband
• Knowing that the death of her Kahl husband will mean the end of her and her army, Dany sacrifices her unborn child to a witch in a misguided attempt to save him 
• Thinking all is lost, Dany burns the witch, her semi-dead husband and herself alive, only to survive and get dragons, because magic
• Dany threatens to raze Qarth when they don't let her in
• Dany has her Dragons incinerate the Warlock Pyat Pree
• Dany locks Xaro in his vault to die of starvation
• Dany burns the slavemasters of Astapor and steals their army of unsullied
• Dany orders the unsullied to sack astapor and leaves the city ungoverned and in shambles to march to Yunkai
• Dany sacks the city of Yunkai and leaves the city ungoverned and in shambles to march to Mareen
• Dany instigates a slave revolt to take Mareen, then crucifies 163 nobles from that city
• Dany has a great master burned alive and eaten by her dragons as reprisal for Ser Barriston's death
• Dany gathers all the Dothraki leaders together and burns them alive
• Dany declares her intent to "return their [slaver's bay] cities to the dirt," but is persuaded to by Tyrion not to do it 
• Dany burns the entire slavemaster's armada (what about the innocents?!)
• Dany burns the Tarlys for not bending the knee

Yes. Dany is was a totally kind a delightful ruler up until season 8 episode 5. If anything is clear, its that the only thing holding her back the entire time from not doing this earlier were here trusted advisers, who are now all dead or untrusted

I stopped reading after the first two bullets. Viserys was basically Ramsay with platinum blond hair. If you take Dany threatening him or not being sad when he dies as forshadowing that she would commit mass murder, you are deranged. 

 Sherman's gonna have a stroke if he sees this.

Quote from robpcom3 >>

Quote from YJHS2000 >>

Quote from GetchX >>

  Except Dany would never do this, and was done for the sake of the plot and to be "shocking".

 

 Let's take a look at what Dany has done throughout the show, shall we?

• Dany threatens to cut off her brother's hands if he hits her again
• Dany watches without emotion as her older brother (heir to the throne over her) is melted to death by her husband
• Knowing that the death of her Kahl husband will mean the end of her and her army, Dany sacrifices her unborn child to a witch in a misguided attempt to save him 
• Thinking all is lost, Dany burns the witch, her semi-dead husband and herself alive, only to survive and get dragons, because magic
• Dany threatens to raze Qarth when they don't let her in
• Dany has her Dragons incinerate the Warlock Pyat Pree
• Dany locks Xaro in his vault to die of starvation
• Dany burns the slavemasters of Astapor and steals their army of unsullied
• Dany orders the unsullied to sack astapor and leaves the city ungoverned and in shambles to march to Yunkai
• Dany sacks the city of Yunkai and leaves the city ungoverned and in shambles to march to Mareen
• Dany instigates a slave revolt to take Mareen, then crucifies 163 nobles from that city
• Dany has a great master burned alive and eaten by her dragons as reprisal for Ser Barriston's death
• Dany gathers all the Dothraki leaders together and burns them alive
• Dany declares her intent to "return their [slaver's bay] cities to the dirt," but is persuaded to by Tyrion not to do it 
• Dany burns the entire slavemaster's armada (what about the innocents?!)
• Dany burns the Tarlys for not bending the knee

Yes. Dany is was a totally kind a delightful ruler up until season 8 episode 5. If anything is clear, its that the only thing holding her back the entire time from not doing this earlier were here trusted advisers, who are now all dead or untrusted

I stopped reading after the first two bullets. Viserys was basically Ramsay with platinum blond hair. If you take Dany threatening him or not being sad when he dies as forshadowing that she would commit mass murder, you are deranged. 

 Viserys=ramsay with blond hair..?.....stop just stop... This is the worst comment I have read on the internet since Got aired on hbo. Ramsay is the Joseph Mengele of the series, ridiculous really..

Compare Dany's unexpected slaughter of the innocent King's Landingers to Joffrey's unexpected execution of Ned Stark.

Ned Stark's execution served to upend fiction conventions because he, the "protagonist" wasn't supposed to die in the first book.  It was shocking for that reason.  However, it wasn't shocking that Joffrey chose to have him executed as opposed to honoring the political deal.  Joffrey's action was completely in keeping with the character that had been developed throughout the first book/season.  The book had given abundant examples that he was vindictive and impulsive.

Now, Dany has vindictively and impulsively slaughtered the citizens of King's Landing.  Many have argued the writers chose this in order to upend conventions:  Dany, the "good" protagonist, would not kill innocents needlessly, ergo, convention upended.  The problem is that Dany has continuously tried to help innocent commoners throughout the entire run of the series.  Unlike Joffrey executing Ned Stark, Dany's action haven't been explicitly foreshadowed, and so many people are very unhappy about the seeming change in her character.  She has been merciless to political opponents, while actively working to spare common citizens.  That was her character.  In the course of about five seconds, that second part of her character was completely reversed.  That is shocking for the wrong reasons. 

The slaughtering of innocents doesn't even upend convention in any meaningful way, so 0/0 for the writing team there.  

Edit, also: If they had really wanted to upend conventions, then they should have let Cersei win.  THAT would have been shocking for all the RIGHT reasonS.  

Quote from robpcom3 >>

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONrUvj0-bjI

Great video laying waste to defenders of the episode/ the writing in general. Perhaps skip past the intro.

You can hate Dany, you can think the Mad Queen was absolutely the right choice(I don't, but w/e), and still think this episode and last season or two has been garbage. 

 

 

 I'm about  half way done, when does he start "laying waste" to people defending Ep 5 defenders?  So far it's more or less "I hate D&D, this character is different now/didn't end how I wanted so it's dumb!"

I think this is a more fair evaluation of Ep 5.

Quote from YJHS2000 >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

 

 First of all, she absolutely did not sacrifice her child willingly.  And I'm not counting threats; that can be posturing.

 

 

 Oh really?

“You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse.”

“No,” Mirri Maz Duur said. “That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price.”

Had she? Had she? If I look back I am lost. “The price was paid,” Dany said. “The horse, my child, Quaro and Qotho, Haggo and Cohollo. The price was paid and paid and paid.” She rose from her cushions. “Where is Khal Drogo? Show him to me, godswife, maegi, bloodmage, whatever you are. Show me Khal Drogo. Show me what I bought with my son’s life.”

 Dude, yes, really.

"You knew the price" from the blood witch who had lied about what the spell would do is not a reliable source.  "Show me what I bought" was sarcasm.  I mean, this stuff isn't from me.  GRRM has stated unequivocally that she had been had by the witch.

If this video doesn't prove to you why Daenerys burning down an entire city of innocent people is completely nonsensical then nothing will:

since the series basically aren't really connected to the books anymore its totally fine and somewhat in character what she did. just think of everything she went through to get to her ultimate goal - getting the throne - and now she sees it falling apart and there is really nothing she can do about it except letting the fear reign, just like she said. 

i can easily get behind the idea that she tries everything to save her goals even if it means burning down some innocents who she does not care about anymore at this point whatsoever.

a kid killed the night king man can u imagine its bs show 

i feel like some/most of you are just trolling now or hopping on the "I hate GoT" train. 

Quote from Kaladin >>

i feel like some/most of you are just trolling now or hopping on the "I hate GoT" train. 

No, the show has genuinely turned into something that the majority of us dislike.  You're just lucky in that it turned from something you enjoy into something entirely different but still likable for you personally.  Like it or not, you can't deny that it's a completely different show from what we started with

It's like watching a comedy that abruptly turned into a horror for no good reason.  You're that one guy in the theater that watches horror movies regularly so you don't have a problem with that

People can rationalize characters and pick at the logic all they want but at the end of the day it's all irrelevant to the people who can appreciate the story without those things.  Nothing wrong with that.  I've been there myself

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

i feel like some/most of you are just trolling now or hopping on the "I hate GoT" train. 

No, the show has genuinely turned into something that the majority of us dislike.  You're just lucky in that it turned from something you enjoy into something entirely different but still likable for you personally.  Like it or not, you can't deny that it's a completely different show from what we started with

It's like watching a comedy that abruptly turned into a horror for no good reason.  You're that one guy in the theater that watches horror movies regularly so you don't have a problem with that

People can rationalize characters and pick at the logic all they want but at the end of the day it's all irrelevant to the people who can appreciate the story without those things.  Nothing wrong with that.  I've been there myself

 I'll give you that it's felt incredibly rushed lately and there are certainly things of varying scale that I have a problem with (from the major issues of Euron's ambush to the minor issues of Dany's burning of KL) but given that context, I don't feel as though the problem is "D & D are shit at writing and have ruined GoT for me" but an issue of "they should not have given a pre-set time frame in which they were going to finish the story and forced themselves to write within that restriction."  

If you want to discuss finer points of the show (without bringing up the books), then I'll for it.

Comments like this,

a kid killed the night king man can u imagine its bs show

Are not productive and just low level trolling. 

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from B4timer >>

Yes people can snap, But that scene could have been a lot better.Instead of bells they could have easily have a hidden scorpion fire at her dragon almost killing it after the surrender or show some hidden soldiers in civilian clothes attach her soldiers in view, both would have been more believable that just the bells. Up until that point she tried to spare the innocent so her action is kinda out of character. And If she wanted to kill her enemies why start with the civilians it better to start with the red keep, she is just giving her enemies in it time to run away. 

 how many times do i have to say it. 

snapping like that results in irrational decisions.  you are in fight or flight mode at that point. 

 So you're saying that after the battle was over and Dany and her army were victorious, she went into fight or flight mode?

How not to facilitate good discussion:

"SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS...."

How to instead facilitate good discussion:

"That doesn't make sense, for these reasons.  Can you explain what you mean?"

Let me know when you're ready to have a civil discussion. 

Quote from Kaladin >>

How not to facilitate good discussion:

"SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS...."

How to instead facilitate good discussion:

"That doesn't make sense, for these reasons.  Can you explain what you mean?"

Let me know when you're ready to have a civil discussion. 

 

 So what you're saying is you have no response because what you claimed makes no sense.

Dont worry they are gonna do a copout move. bran wakes up after his fall from the tower, eveybody is alive it was all just a dream. ahahaha

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from NightCrawl3r >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

i feel like some/most of you are just trolling now or hopping on the "I hate GoT" train. 

No, the show has genuinely turned into something that the majority of us dislike.  You're just lucky in that it turned from something you enjoy into something entirely different but still likable for you personally.  Like it or not, you can't deny that it's a completely different show from what we started with

It's like watching a comedy that abruptly turned into a horror for no good reason.  You're that one guy in the theater that watches horror movies regularly so you don't have a problem with that

People can rationalize characters and pick at the logic all they want but at the end of the day it's all irrelevant to the people who can appreciate the story without those things.  Nothing wrong with that.  I've been there myself

 I'll give you that it's felt incredibly rushed lately and there are certainly things of varying scale that I have a problem with (from the major issues of Euron's ambush to the minor issues of Dany's burning of KL) but given that context, I don't feel as though the problem is "D & D are shit at writing and have ruined GoT for me" but an issue of "they should not have given a pre-set time frame in which they were going to finish the story and forced themselves to write within that restriction."  

If you want to discuss finer points of the show (without bringing up the books), then I'll for it.

Comments like this,

a kid killed the night king man can u imagine its bs show

Are not productive and just low level trolling. 

100% this. But, given the fact that season 8 includes a mere six episodes it's not that surprising to me that most, if not everything feels rushed. I mean, how the heck could they deliver the perfect setup for anything which happened? For example, episode 2 featuring the gathering/long farewell was probably one of the best scenes we've witnessed in the latest season, even though most of the characters involved somehow survived the ensuing battle (which I didn't agree with but that's just me). Apart from that, there are logical failures (see the scorpions and how they magically lose their aim bot) and some scenes appeared out of context (why would Tyrion seal Varys' fate?) but in the end everything has to come to an end. I feel it would have needed at least another 10-ep season to create a more fitting course of action.

I don't see why people are so obsessed with protecting Dany's image. She's always been a trigger-happy lunatic hell-bent on conquering westeros, and only held in check by her advisers.

Quote from YJHS2000 >>

I don't see why people are so obsessed with protecting Dany's image. She's always been a trigger-happy lunatic hell-bent on conquering westeros, and only held in check by her advisers.

 

 that does not mean she is a deranged murderer who will literally genocide people just for being in her general vicinity.

She's a cunt, she's delusional and she tends to act on impulse.

There was no impulse for her to holocaust king's landing, all she had to do was burn down the red keep, killing Cersei in the process then have her dragon sit on the ruins while she declares herself queen. There is literally nobody in the entirety of king's landing who would protest that because they are busy shitting their pants after she basically solod an entire city stacked with defenses meant to prevent her from doing that.

It happened because the plot demanded villain Dany, not because it made any sense. It's literally the worst piece of character writing in recent history, worse than Luke Skywalker in TLJ or Nick Fury in Captain MArvel

Whether you like it or not - Dany's 'targaryen madness' was foreshadowed heavily in both hte books and show from almost the word go. If you were fangirling her all the way to the ironthrone...well I'm not surprised you feel slightly angry - anger is a common emotion among prize puddings. Maybe go back to complaining about how there is too much boob in show or something? (deal with it)

Just like much of the last two seasons, the episode was a bit truncated - but it was still the best ep of the season so far.

Quote from Psy_Kik >>

Whether you like it or not - Dany's 'targaryen madness' was foreshadowed heavily in both hte books and show from almost the word go. If you were fangirling her all the way to the ironthrone...well I'm not surprised you feel slightly angry - anger is a common emotion among prize puddings. Maybe go back to complaining about how there is too much boob in show or something? (deal with it)

Just like much of the last two seasons, the episode was a bit truncated - but it was still the best ep of the season so far.

 We at least i, are not angry because it happended.We angry because of the terrible writting that brought her there.Most of us book readers expecting this to happen, however the way it went down was absolutely appauling.This was the icing of the cake.This season has been a disgrace. Fans have made more coherend and interesting endings. 

What happened is obvious, GRRM told them the basic events and how the story's general plot will conclude but not how it will go there.Mostly because himself did not know at the time.Then these overpaid noobs massacred the show as they are untallented and lazy and how no idea how to connect the dots.They could copy the best and most well written fan theories (which lead to the same conclusion btw),but nope!They had to smell thier own farts and subvert expectations...

They even have the audacity to make statements like this 

'' Dany KinDa ForGoT tHe iRoN fLeEt'