Hearthpwn

Quote from Sebzero >>

Quote from GetchX >>

- snip -

 What you said about Dany is true at the same time it isn't. The rule in the show is that Targaryans are nutcases. Dany lost her mind because she has the Targaryan gen. She was a time bomb, wich exploded this episode.

 Except it isn't. In the show there are more perfectly sane Targaryens, than insane ones.

Quote from GerritDeMan >>

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

Holy fucking shit what an absolute shitshow. I mean, I didn't expect much anymore and they still managed  to disappoint.

How do you follow up episode 3 and manage to get even worse?

So we start off by firing Varys because he is the last smart character left in the show and we can't have that. Everyone is surprisingly okay with this.

Then we start the battle with some quick maths:

1 Scorpion vs Drogon = taken out of combat with one hit, taking two shots

about 5 scorpions vs Drogon & rhaegal = instant kill with triple bullseye

ALL THE SCORPIONS vs Drogon = incapable of doing anything

all the previous set up of "the odds are frighteningly even" are thrown out of the window. The entire Night King plot therefore had ABSOLUTELY NO POINT and if you ignored that it happened ABSOLUTELY NOTHING would change.

Drogon has also upgraded his fire breath to a disintegration beam that explodes on impact. There is no explanation. MEanwhile the Dothraki have learned the power of mitosis and multiplied of screen. They still fail to factor into the battle except for one scene.

Arya is determined to killl Cersei despite it being pretty clear that Cersei will not survive anyways. She immediately gets talked out of it by the HOund, who for some reason is really determined to kill his brother. This has nothing to do with his arc. He goes on basically a suicide mission to get revenge, despite him barely even mentioning it before. His entire story was about changing him from a lonely nihilist to someone who actually cares about certain people...but no, Cleganebowl has to happen. It wouldn't make sense if he just followed Arya and 1v1d the mountain to let her follow Cersei or something...nnah he's just gonna do his Mortal Kombat shit, because fuck it, his character has been dead in the books for a long time so it really doesn't matter whether he has an actual consistent characterization or not.

Also, for some reason the Mountain conveniently decides to have some desire to fight his brother despite being a braindead zombie. There is no reason for this other than Cleganebowl. Did they forgot that the Mountain doesn't actually hate his brother? He pushed him into the fire as a kid and is just a dick. He doesn't give a fuck about him otherwise. There's literally no reason why he would abandon his post just for a 1v1.

Dany goes from 0 to insane for no reason at all. There's literally nothing to provoke her. She destroyed all the scorpions and all she has to do is burn down the Red Keep. Instead she decides to do a little Holocaust just because. After all, we only have one episode left and we need a reason for her to die. Also we conveniently never actually cut to her while genociding so we just have to assume she's laughing maniacally, her hair has turned green, she has the words "damaged" tatooted on her forehead and talks about how "all it takes is one bad day"....presumably

we also get to follow some random orphans on their way to their extremely predictable death, because we have to manufacture drama somehow.

Arya has upgraded her Faceless Man game and instead of stealing faces she stole Euron's plot armor. He still had enough to casually swim up to shore and run into Jaime only to attack him for no reason. What is Euron's motivation? Previously it was that he wants power...then it was that he just wants to bang the queen. HIs character is non-existent, but apparently he's still important enough to not just get axed by the dragon.

Jon Snow continues to be useless as usual.For some reason all the Lannister soldiers still want to kill him though. His character at this point can be summed up by "I don't want to"

We no longer like Grey Worm. the Northerners are apparently psychopaths who commit war crimes the instant they have the opportunity too. Nobody tell the writers that the main reason why raping and pillaging happens is because the soldiers basically went through hell and have lost their humanity. these soldiers barely even fought anyone, they steamrolled a few confused soldiers and that's it. There is literally no reason for them to do anything of the sort, but hey, the dickless man with a hatred for helmets threw a sword so I guess it's time to go berserk.

Oh yeah and Tyrion again wanders around battlefields looking concerned

Arya continues to be punished for Killstealing and is rendered useless the entire episode. Instead, the coldblooded, downright inhuman assassin gremlin now becomes the audience stand-in to showcase the horrors of war. As a parting gift from the lord of light for doing such a good job she gets a horse to ride into the sunset. There is no symbolism. It's just ********.

Did I miss anything?

 

 

 You missed Cersei and Jaime dying in the most anti-climactic way possible, because D&D once again subverted our expectations by having them killed by none other than, wait for it... falling rocks! On top of that Jaime's entire character arc is now completely ruined because he has ended exactly where he started back in season 1 when he was a completely different person. I guess he was scared of having to fuck Brienne for the rest of his life instead of Cersei who was actually good at it?

Other than that, great job, I agree with everything.

 I have to admit, I actually liked her ending, partly because no matter how it was set up there wouldn't have been a satisfying death for her. Arya killilng her? Cool, but ultimately boring, Dany roasting her? Same.

I like that in the end it showed Cersei to still be human. I mean, she was basically sure she was going to win (and she would have if not for plot convenience) so having her witness her own downfall and realizing it was kind of poetic.

On the other hand Jaime was completely ruined as a character, but hey, at least we know whoever wrote the prophecy was a dyslexic moron who can't tell the difference between "dies by her brother's hands" and "dies in her brother's arms"

Quote from Essavias >>

Quote from Sebzero >>

Quote from GetchX >>

- snip -

 What you said about Dany is true at the same time it isn't. The rule in the show is that Targaryans are nutcases. Dany lost her mind because she has the Targaryan gen. She was a time bomb, wich exploded this episode.

 Except it isn't. In the show there are more perfectly sane Targaryens, than insane ones.

 wasn't the Mad KIng the only insane one...like...ever.

Viserys wasn't insane, he was just kind of a dick with delusions of grandeur. Rhaegar was perfectly normal.

Yeah there's really mostly sane targaryens and the entire point of Dany was to overcome the stigma of her heritage, but ofc she doesn't because "muh symbolism and reincorporation"

I remember when Luke Skywalker turned evil at the end of Return of the Jedi because it was kind of implied.

But hey, anything to get the plot going, even if it means having a character commit unnecessary war crimes that would make even Adolf HItler denounce you.

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

Quote from GerritDeMan >>

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

Holy fucking shit what an absolute shitshow. I mean, I didn't expect much anymore and they still managed  to disappoint.

How do you follow up episode 3 and manage to get even worse?

So we start off by firing Varys because he is the last smart character left in the show and we can't have that. Everyone is surprisingly okay with this.

Then we start the battle with some quick maths:

1 Scorpion vs Drogon = taken out of combat with one hit, taking two shots

about 5 scorpions vs Drogon & rhaegal = instant kill with triple bullseye

ALL THE SCORPIONS vs Drogon = incapable of doing anything

all the previous set up of "the odds are frighteningly even" are thrown out of the window. The entire Night King plot therefore had ABSOLUTELY NO POINT and if you ignored that it happened ABSOLUTELY NOTHING would change.

Drogon has also upgraded his fire breath to a disintegration beam that explodes on impact. There is no explanation. MEanwhile the Dothraki have learned the power of mitosis and multiplied of screen. They still fail to factor into the battle except for one scene.

Arya is determined to killl Cersei despite it being pretty clear that Cersei will not survive anyways. She immediately gets talked out of it by the HOund, who for some reason is really determined to kill his brother. This has nothing to do with his arc. He goes on basically a suicide mission to get revenge, despite him barely even mentioning it before. His entire story was about changing him from a lonely nihilist to someone who actually cares about certain people...but no, Cleganebowl has to happen. It wouldn't make sense if he just followed Arya and 1v1d the mountain to let her follow Cersei or something...nnah he's just gonna do his Mortal Kombat shit, because fuck it, his character has been dead in the books for a long time so it really doesn't matter whether he has an actual consistent characterization or not.

Also, for some reason the Mountain conveniently decides to have some desire to fight his brother despite being a braindead zombie. There is no reason for this other than Cleganebowl. Did they forgot that the Mountain doesn't actually hate his brother? He pushed him into the fire as a kid and is just a dick. He doesn't give a fuck about him otherwise. There's literally no reason why he would abandon his post just for a 1v1.

Dany goes from 0 to insane for no reason at all. There's literally nothing to provoke her. She destroyed all the scorpions and all she has to do is burn down the Red Keep. Instead she decides to do a little Holocaust just because. After all, we only have one episode left and we need a reason for her to die. Also we conveniently never actually cut to her while genociding so we just have to assume she's laughing maniacally, her hair has turned green, she has the words "damaged" tatooted on her forehead and talks about how "all it takes is one bad day"....presumably

we also get to follow some random orphans on their way to their extremely predictable death, because we have to manufacture drama somehow.

Arya has upgraded her Faceless Man game and instead of stealing faces she stole Euron's plot armor. He still had enough to casually swim up to shore and run into Jaime only to attack him for no reason. What is Euron's motivation? Previously it was that he wants power...then it was that he just wants to bang the queen. HIs character is non-existent, but apparently he's still important enough to not just get axed by the dragon.

Jon Snow continues to be useless as usual.For some reason all the Lannister soldiers still want to kill him though. His character at this point can be summed up by "I don't want to"

We no longer like Grey Worm. the Northerners are apparently psychopaths who commit war crimes the instant they have the opportunity too. Nobody tell the writers that the main reason why raping and pillaging happens is because the soldiers basically went through hell and have lost their humanity. these soldiers barely even fought anyone, they steamrolled a few confused soldiers and that's it. There is literally no reason for them to do anything of the sort, but hey, the dickless man with a hatred for helmets threw a sword so I guess it's time to go berserk.

Oh yeah and Tyrion again wanders around battlefields looking concerned

Arya continues to be punished for Killstealing and is rendered useless the entire episode. Instead, the coldblooded, downright inhuman assassin gremlin now becomes the audience stand-in to showcase the horrors of war. As a parting gift from the lord of light for doing such a good job she gets a horse to ride into the sunset. There is no symbolism. It's just ********.

Did I miss anything?

 

 

 You missed Cersei and Jaime dying in the most anti-climactic way possible, because D&D once again subverted our expectations by having them killed by none other than, wait for it... falling rocks! On top of that Jaime's entire character arc is now completely ruined because he has ended exactly where he started back in season 1 when he was a completely different person. I guess he was scared of having to fuck Brienne for the rest of his life instead of Cersei who was actually good at it?

Other than that, great job, I agree with everything.

 I have to admit, I actually liked her ending, partly because no matter how it was set up there wouldn't have been a satisfying death for her. Arya killilng her? Cool, but ultimately boring, Dany roasting her? Same.

I like that in the end it showed Cersei to still be human. I mean, she was basically sure she was going to win (and she would have if not for plot convenience) so having her witness her own downfall and realizing it was kind of poetic.

On the other hand Jaime was completely ruined as a character, but hey, at least we know whoever wrote the prophecy was a dyslexic moron who can't tell the difference between "dies by her brother's hands" and "dies in her brother's arms"

1. Would've been way more satisfying if she'd Tommen'ed out.

2. Ackchyually, valonqar is ancient valiryan for a brick.

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

Quote from GerritDeMan >>

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

Holy fucking shit what an absolute shitshow. I mean, I didn't expect much anymore and they still managed  to disappoint.

How do you follow up episode 3 and manage to get even worse?

So we start off by firing Varys because he is the last smart character left in the show and we can't have that. Everyone is surprisingly okay with this.

Then we start the battle with some quick maths:

1 Scorpion vs Drogon = taken out of combat with one hit, taking two shots

about 5 scorpions vs Drogon & rhaegal = instant kill with triple bullseye

ALL THE SCORPIONS vs Drogon = incapable of doing anything

all the previous set up of "the odds are frighteningly even" are thrown out of the window. The entire Night King plot therefore had ABSOLUTELY NO POINT and if you ignored that it happened ABSOLUTELY NOTHING would change.

Drogon has also upgraded his fire breath to a disintegration beam that explodes on impact. There is no explanation. MEanwhile the Dothraki have learned the power of mitosis and multiplied of screen. They still fail to factor into the battle except for one scene.

Arya is determined to killl Cersei despite it being pretty clear that Cersei will not survive anyways. She immediately gets talked out of it by the HOund, who for some reason is really determined to kill his brother. This has nothing to do with his arc. He goes on basically a suicide mission to get revenge, despite him barely even mentioning it before. His entire story was about changing him from a lonely nihilist to someone who actually cares about certain people...but no, Cleganebowl has to happen. It wouldn't make sense if he just followed Arya and 1v1d the mountain to let her follow Cersei or something...nnah he's just gonna do his Mortal Kombat shit, because fuck it, his character has been dead in the books for a long time so it really doesn't matter whether he has an actual consistent characterization or not.

Also, for some reason the Mountain conveniently decides to have some desire to fight his brother despite being a braindead zombie. There is no reason for this other than Cleganebowl. Did they forgot that the Mountain doesn't actually hate his brother? He pushed him into the fire as a kid and is just a dick. He doesn't give a fuck about him otherwise. There's literally no reason why he would abandon his post just for a 1v1.

Dany goes from 0 to insane for no reason at all. There's literally nothing to provoke her. She destroyed all the scorpions and all she has to do is burn down the Red Keep. Instead she decides to do a little Holocaust just because. After all, we only have one episode left and we need a reason for her to die. Also we conveniently never actually cut to her while genociding so we just have to assume she's laughing maniacally, her hair has turned green, she has the words "damaged" tatooted on her forehead and talks about how "all it takes is one bad day"....presumably

we also get to follow some random orphans on their way to their extremely predictable death, because we have to manufacture drama somehow.

Arya has upgraded her Faceless Man game and instead of stealing faces she stole Euron's plot armor. He still had enough to casually swim up to shore and run into Jaime only to attack him for no reason. What is Euron's motivation? Previously it was that he wants power...then it was that he just wants to bang the queen. HIs character is non-existent, but apparently he's still important enough to not just get axed by the dragon.

Jon Snow continues to be useless as usual.For some reason all the Lannister soldiers still want to kill him though. His character at this point can be summed up by "I don't want to"

We no longer like Grey Worm. the Northerners are apparently psychopaths who commit war crimes the instant they have the opportunity too. Nobody tell the writers that the main reason why raping and pillaging happens is because the soldiers basically went through hell and have lost their humanity. these soldiers barely even fought anyone, they steamrolled a few confused soldiers and that's it. There is literally no reason for them to do anything of the sort, but hey, the dickless man with a hatred for helmets threw a sword so I guess it's time to go berserk.

Oh yeah and Tyrion again wanders around battlefields looking concerned

Arya continues to be punished for Killstealing and is rendered useless the entire episode. Instead, the coldblooded, downright inhuman assassin gremlin now becomes the audience stand-in to showcase the horrors of war. As a parting gift from the lord of light for doing such a good job she gets a horse to ride into the sunset. There is no symbolism. It's just ********.

Did I miss anything?

 

 

 You missed Cersei and Jaime dying in the most anti-climactic way possible, because D&D once again subverted our expectations by having them killed by none other than, wait for it... falling rocks! On top of that Jaime's entire character arc is now completely ruined because he has ended exactly where he started back in season 1 when he was a completely different person. I guess he was scared of having to fuck Brienne for the rest of his life instead of Cersei who was actually good at it?

Other than that, great job, I agree with everything.

 

 I have to admit, I actually liked her ending, partly because no matter how it was set up there wouldn't have been a satisfying death for her. Arya killilng her? Cool, but ultimately boring, Dany roasting her? Same.

I like that in the end it showed Cersei to still be human. I mean, she was basically sure she was going to win (and she would have if not for plot convenience) so having her witness her own downfall and realizing it was kind of poetic.

On the other hand Jaime was completely ruined as a character, but hey, at least we know whoever wrote the prophecy was a dyslexic moron who can't tell the difference between "dies by her brother's hands" and "dies in her brother's arms"

 Yeah I agree about Cersei's death, I still don't think it was great, but it was definitely one of the better handled parts of the episode (although that doesn't mean much lol).

I was mostly disappointed with Jaime's actions and death in this episode, and because he and Cersei died together I guess I extended my hate to Cersei's death as well while that wasn't my intention.

Who in the show, with one episode left has arc that makes any sense?

Lets leave aside Dany because a lot of people have hated her for a long time, and are bending over backwards to defend this trainwreck of a mad queen plot. 

What was the point of Tyrion? to escape his cruel and evil family to serve another cruel and even queen, being a terrible judge of character and falling for every trap laid out?

What about Varys? He spent all this time carefully maneuvering in service of the realm, just to launch a clumsy coup attempt while Cersei is still on the throne, sending out letters stating "Jon is a real boy" from underneath Dany's nose?

Sansa learned how to navigate the subtleties of politics king King's landing and from Littlefinger in order to hide in a crypt, and then sneer about the final battle from 1000 miles away?

Jorah sacrificed everything for Dany, only for her to go crazy the next episode and spit on everything he thought of her? Greyworm become a homicidal maniac after being level headed and just all this time?

Jon just limps from scene to scene, whining like a bitch and hoping for another deus ex machina to save him.

Thematic garbage. 

Quote from linkblade91 >>

Or maybe this is the ending GRRM had always envisioned, leaving D&D to scramble for some kind of connecting line that got them from the earlier seasons to this result. Dany becomes the Mad Queen because Martin told them she would, but we don't have the time or the pages to get there on a slower clip. This could be seen as a failure of D&D in their attempts to wrap up the show sooner than HBO would prefer, but much of this comes down to what they were given to work with.

 I agree that D&D were probably not given enough to work with by GRRM, but that still doesn't excuse their incredibly lazy and inconsistent writing.

'Dany kinda forgot about the Iron fleet' -> dumb shit like this is proof that they don't care anymore and just want to be done with the show as soon as possible.

But hey, at least we got a zombie polar bear am I right?

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

Quote from Essavias >>

Quote from Sebzero >>

Quote from GetchX >>

- snip -

 What you said about Dany is true at the same time it isn't. The rule in the show is that Targaryans are nutcases. Dany lost her mind because she has the Targaryan gen. She was a time bomb, wich exploded this episode.

 Except it isn't. In the show there are more perfectly sane Targaryens, than insane ones.

 wasn't the Mad KIng the only insane one...like...ever.

Viserys wasn't insane, he was just kind of a dick with delusions of grandeur. Rhaegar was perfectly normal.

Yeah there's really mostly sane targaryens and the entire point of Dany was to overcome the stigma of her heritage, but ofc she doesn't because "muh symbolism and reincorporation"

I remember when Luke Skywalker turned evil at the end of Return of the Jedi because it was kind of implied.

But hey, anything to get the plot going, even if it means having a character commit unnecessary war crimes that would make even Adolf HItler denounce you.

 In the show - yes, and I completely agree with you about Viserys. Let us also not forget Aemon.

In the lore though: "some members are known to be perfectly normal psychologically-speaking, other Targaryens throughout history have displayed bizarre, erratic and sometimes violent behavior, succumbing to the so-called 'Targaryen madness'."

Note though, that bizarre and erratic doesn't equal genocidal maniacs.

Quote from robpcom3>>

What about Varys? He spent all this time carefully maneuvering in service of the realm, just to launch a clumsy coup attempt while Cersei is still on the throne, sending out letters stating "Jon is a real boy" from underneath Dany's nose?

In all honesty the choices weren't that bad. it is their execution wrong. If they had more time/episodes to develop it would have been better, like having more time for Varys plot, Danny turning into madness and ruling as a mad queen etc etc.

In my opinion a lot of people are arguing because we are coming to an end and not everyone can be satisfied. In GoT there isn't a main protagonist and seeing the team, character you were cheering for to die must suck. Having said that:

Varys dying in a "suicidal mission" was logical, just rushed as fuck. Like all this season.

Danny flipping crazy was kind of obvious, didn't expect to burn the whole city tho, I expected her to just take down the fortress. There again, we needed more screentime development.

Greyworm was in line, he is turning into a Robot after he lost the one who tought him to not be a soldier. He just followed Dany.

Arya having a change of heart about her life was brilliant and the fact that it was suggested by the hound even better, what bothers me is the ammount of plot armor she had, kinda ridicolous. The last scene was symbolic and "onyric" sure, but since when we had this in GoT except in visions and prophecies?

Clegane Bowl was so much on point. It was a perfect ending imho. It was a well shot fight with Amazing photography. It all started for a toy. 

Tyrion betraying Varys was meh, but his final moment with Jaime left me in tears, I almost wanted to call my brother after that.

Euron was okay-ish? Randomly appearing was the only problem? They could have made them fight for the boat or the goddam paternity, not just a random "ah fuck it I want to have fun".

I'm not going to comment about Jon, he is in line but boring.

The Golden company being one shotted was MEH. We saw the power of a mature-grown Dragon. Okay. It was Amazing the first 5 minutes but now just boring and one-sided.

I read a lot of comments about Jaime and how the character was "ruined". I don't really know sincerely, i'm kinda thorn apart. Was it a story about addiction? About Redemption? He is probably the best written in the series up to season 7, and the most half good half bad character. I think a lot of people are dissapointed because they wanted him alive and good, rather than dead and with a woman we despise. I still can't decide if I liked how my favourite character died, but i'm not entirely dissapointed by him tho, atm I can't figure out a better ending for him but i'll surely try. To all the people saying: "defeated by rocks" or some bullsh*t: Yeah I get it, but try to think it like it was a WW2 movie and in a bombardment. In a goddam close space with the woman you love. I finded it beatiful. Also Cersei was great this episode. She was confident, then broken. She returned to be a little scared children. Also the acting was so on point with her.

But honestly by everyone. The Actors were Amazing. The Visual, Music everything was perfect except the writing that felt rushed and non-sensical just to shock.

Yeah, credit is due to the actors.  Emilia is doing a fantastic job of trying to sell us this s**t.

Well, I rooted for this to happen. Mad Queen Dany is the best thing that happened this season, mainly because I don't think she is mad as in crazy, but mad as in upset or distraught. Ever since the Short Night, Jorah's death, she has become an actual person, feeling solitude and envy instead of being an immortal goddess that just gets armies for free. That's a character right there! Her lashing out wasn't from nothing, I'd say:

Tyrion has done nothing but fail her expensively ever since she got to Westeros, she has witnessed the deaths of two of her """"children"""" and two of her advisers before her own eyes, she has been betrayed and her lover's family hates her guts. Then you meet an insufferable opponent like Cersei and Euron... I find it understandable that she wants to destroy everything they ever held. She's not right to do so, but I get it.

The people complaining about Mad Queen Dany probably think seeing people you care about get murdered is easy. Reminder: she's had an easy journey ever since Season 2 started. Her only losses in Essos were Ser Barristan and Khal Drogo, both of which she avenged quite nastily. Season 7 was when she experienced hardship again, and now we see her deal with it.

In short:
All hail Queen Daenerys Stormborn!
Queen of the Ashes,
Breaker of Cities,
Burner of Eunuchs, Children and Mothers,
Crusher of the hard-nerfed Iron Fleet and Golden Company,
Mighty makes righty heir to the Iron Throne!

nevermind this show is cool again

Still, this episode had some damn issues. I was entertained by the ballsy bloodshed of butchering children and mothers on screen (about time we get children dying in pop media, moar pls), so these weren't too great this time.

1. Varys decided to betray Dany now, even if she threatened to burn him alive literally one season before. It felt stupid.
2. Jon is still being useless, but that's more funny than it is problematic.
3. Grey Worm suddenly has feelings of vengeance, even though Unsullied are supposed to be almost emotionless because of their training.
4. Arya not dying + that symbolic pale horse that felt completely out of place.
5. Jaime unlearning everything he spent seasons learning, though I liked him and Cersei as a couple. All's decent.
6. Northmen have become mindless rapists now. Yeah, yeah, a man with a sword is a different creature, whatever. I thought they disliked the Boltons for being dishonorable and ruthless and they go berserk at the first thing. Bleh.
7. Euron should have died in the flames. His duel with Jaime did nothing, since Jaime was getting crushed anyway. Might as well give Dany an actual important kill for once.

I really don't understand all the hatred towards this episode,yes it would've been much better if they had taken more time to develop some plotlines (that can be said about the whole season though,it could've been the best of all of them but laziness ruined it),but overall the episode is still good... It's the best of the season by a mile... 

Dany losing it makes perfect sense,it was rushed as fuck and I would've like it way more if she snapped after Missandei's death or right after Jon refused her and the battle against the Iron Fleet involved so much plot armor that it made me sick but that's it,everything else makes perfect sense and I don't see how else it could've ended...

Jon has been useless for the majority of the time so I can't see why people still expect him to do something relevant... He will kill Dany next episode almost for sure but I don't see that as worth of note,it's just soo predictable as everything else his character does...

Varys died doing what he thought was most important and that is giving the realm a good ruler... I don't see anything wrong with that...

Tyrion has been useless for a while now so I wouldn't even count him in...

Grey Worm,poor thing just lost the love of his life... Unsullied or not you'd be pissed if that happened to you... Also,he was just obeying his Queen...

Euron is goddamn useless and his whole plotline was a waste time that could've been used in a better way but those 2 minutes aren't a reason to hate on an otherwise good episode...

Jaime and Cersei made perfect sense to me,again his plotline could've been developed a bit more.but I loved the way it ended... What did people want exactly? Arya killing Cersei? or worse Jaime and Brienne together?

Arya giving up revenge (also thanks to Sandor) shows great character development so I don't see anything wrong with that too...

Also,finally seeing Drogon wrecking havoc and showing all his mightiness after 7 seasons of just spitting fire once in a blue a moon felt great...

Quote from Essavias >>

Quote from YourPrivateNightmare >>

Quote from Essavias >>

Quote from Sebzero >>

Quote from GetchX >>

- snip -

 What you said about Dany is true at the same time it isn't. The rule in the show is that Targaryans are nutcases. Dany lost her mind because she has the Targaryan gen. She was a time bomb, wich exploded this episode.

 Except it isn't. In the show there are more perfectly sane Targaryens, than insane ones.

 wasn't the Mad KIng the only insane one...like...ever.

Viserys wasn't insane, he was just kind of a dick with delusions of grandeur. Rhaegar was perfectly normal.

Yeah there's really mostly sane targaryens and the entire point of Dany was to overcome the stigma of her heritage, but ofc she doesn't because "muh symbolism and reincorporation"

I remember when Luke Skywalker turned evil at the end of Return of the Jedi because it was kind of implied.

But hey, anything to get the plot going, even if it means having a character commit unnecessary war crimes that would make even Adolf HItler denounce you.

 In the show - yes, and I completely agree with you about Viserys. Let us also not forget Aemon.

In the lore though: "some members are known to be perfectly normal psychologically-speaking, other Targaryens throughout history have displayed bizarre, erratic and sometimes violent behavior, succumbing to the so-called 'Targaryen madness'."

Note though, that bizarre and erratic doesn't equal genocidal maniacs.

Quote from robpcom3>>

What about Varys? He spent all this time carefully maneuvering in service of the realm, just to launch a clumsy coup attempt while Cersei is still on the throne, sending out letters stating "Jon is a real boy" from underneath Dany's nose?

 I literally laughed out loud

To be honest i cannot fanthom why people defend this episode!Even my waifu morkimus is among them!THIS IS BLASPHEMY! THIS IS MADNESS!

The mad queen theory was one of the most intrigueing theories since forever, but the excecution had no redeming qualities whatsoever. Dany had no reason to snapp when she did.Had her other dragon die that moment, or any event to trigger her THAT specific moment, the thing would be plausible.But someone who cared and freed the masses all her life to take active action against them FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER is a complete violation of her character.

Every character was violated to oblivion.And do not bring the lack of time as an excuse.How many pointless scenes we had in the last 3 seasons?Fuck it!In this season alone the entire ep2 was a complete waste of screen time and budget.

Just read about the bran=night king fan theory and how well it brings everything together.Or how the dany will go mad queen.The fans had already given those poor excuse of writers plenty of material to work with.

This is not nitpicking.Game of thrones or the song of fire and ice, had never been about dumb fun. People including me have invested hundreds if not thousands of hours watching the show, reading the books and speculating.There are people who named their kids after characters of the show for fuck's sake.This was a bitch slap to the face to all of us just to subvert expectations.

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

While the execution was not the best, I'm glad Daenerys finally showed her true face. I always hated that bitch with passion!!! :) :) :)

Now, please f...king directors, I want Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister 100% dead, they are too stupid for my taste. :D :D :D

This is exactly how I feel!  The writing has gone to shit but at least it won't be a stereotypical happy ending and Dany isn't the Mary Sue everyone thought she is.  Mary Sues have no place in this story, especially ones that are constantly rewarded for nonsensical decisions 

Dunno about Jon and Tyrion though.  Normally, I love seeing stupidity being punished but they were okay in the beginning and at this point everyone in the show is just stupid equally.  As for Grey Worm, I don't even consider him a character; he's just a face for the unsullied.  He has no personality outside of "I am loyal to the queen" and his romance arc felt completely artificial

Am I the only one who thinks that this episode is entirely consistent with Dany's character and tactics ever since she got the dragons (as per the show)? And that she's never really been "good"? She was tempered by her advisors but her tactics have always been direct, only really playing at wise. She doesn't truly believe the mad king did anything wrong. She calls herself by all sorts of titles, like any "liberation" movement leader. Her only real motivation has been to rule everything, by force if required. She's not loved or respected in Westeros, which is unfamiliar to her. She has lost her circle, or it is ineffective (in Tyrion's case). She's a power obsessed, delusional person with a cult of personality.

Worst part of the episode was Jaime, which seemed a simplification of his character arc, and how weirdly stupid Tyrion's has become. Otherwise, the episode was fine.

To all the people saying Daenerys' actions made sense and were set up properly I'd like to point out the following:

In the first 4 seasons Daenerys was constantly trying to help the helpless. She wanted the dothraki to stop mindlessly killing and raping people, even though that is basically their entire culture. She killed all the slavers in Astapor and told the slaves she freed (including the unsullied) that they were free to go. She went to Yunkai, where they offered her ships so that she could go to Westeros and do what her initial purpose was, but instead she chose to free the people of Yunkai from their masters. Then she went on to Meereen to do the exact same and stayed there to make sure slavery was going to be ended permanently.

Sure, after that things definitely didn't all go too well for her until halfway through season 6 where suddenly everyone flocked to her side. Then when she went to Westeros things still didn't go very smoothly, but in the end she got what she wanted. Jon told her he doesn't want the throne so there's really not much reason for her to worry about him being the true heir, and she beat Cersei. Even if everyone knew about Jon's true heritage he could just say 'I don't want to be king and I declare Daenerys the queen of the seven kingdoms' and most people would have been okay with it. 

It has already been stated enough that her going mad was setup poorly so I won't go into that too much, but all of you who think her actions made sense are forgetting this: She won, every one of her enemies surrendered to her, and even if she still decided her enemies (or just Cersei since no one besides her and Euron have actively wronged her) had to pay for their actions, she could have just gone straight for the red keep where all of her remaining enemies were. The main problem isn't Daenerys 'going mad', it's that she has apparently become so mad that she is slaughtering countless innocents for no damn reason at all, while she used to be someone who would do everything to make sure that the oppressed masses are treated appropriately.

Daenerys has had the tendency to go too far in punishing those she believed to be in the wrong so I can see why you would think Daenerys losing it made some sense, but I just can't possibly begin to understand how you can think that it makes sense for her to mindlessly slaughter innocent civilians.

Edit: also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bo7qug/remember_when_dany_was_devastated_because_her/