so I'm just gonna refute all your points, because you're really not making much sense.
1) it doesn#t matter what their goals were, their tactics were absolute nonsense from any angle unless their plan was to literally suicide all their troops and hope for a miracle, because unless you forgot, Arya doing her ninja shit wasn't planned anyways. The plan was to lure the Night king into an open area with Bran and then kill him somehow. Meanwhile they don't set an ambush, leave Bran with Theon of all people (literally why not Jon, who doesn't even need to be on a dragon at all since he contributes barely anything to its combat)
TBH, I'm pretty sure Theon got the highest kill count this episode, besides dragons. While Jon was running back and forth like an idiot, Theon was lighting mofos up. Also, since he's a skilled archer, it makes perfect sense to put him with Bran - he won't tire fast from hand to hand combat, and is able to keep the wights at some distance.
In a nutshell, this is the one and only strategic decision in the episode that actually makes sense.
Other than that, while I did somewhat enjoy the episode for pure entertainment value - it's a hot mess.
When did all characters who are supposedly good strategists become bllithering idiots? Cavalry at the first line? Charging into who the hell know what? It makes ZERO sense, unless all Dothraki extras had scheduled vacations during filming. Next, using their best infantry - the Unsullied - as simple meatshields? No sense. Halfasses, nay, quaterassed fortifications? Come on...
Then there's Bran watching porn on WierWood.net for the entirety of the battle. I wish they gave him at least something, ANYTHING, to do. Useless, useless boy.
I'm ok with Arya killing NK, but as was noted wish it was less anime. Also, kinda wished that Theon would've pulled a knife out of his boot and stab him right before dying.
Worst episode of Game of Thrones ever! Whoever had the bright idea to film in the dark is an asshat. I’ve spent the majority of the episode not seeing anything! Total crap!
The episode was quite entretaining despite the poor lighting, but there wasn't any emotional moment, since no important character died.
That said, I'm really glad the Night King died. I liked the White Walkers when they were just a looming threat, but once they gained importance, the whole thing became a bit stupid. The show became a fight of good vs evil, and it stoped being about politics and palace plots (you people talk about season 5, but I think the quality drop only happened in season 7, when the Night King became the main villain)
I'm looking forward to see what does Danenerys do now that she knows who Jon really is.
honestly what???
Jorah Mormont - Dany's longest running advisor and friend, who has had a pretty amazing arc. He died fighting for Dany. Lyanna Mormont - Fucking badass little girl to the 10th degree, and combined with Jorah's death, the end of House Mormont. Theon - The best character arc in modern fiction IMO. What a redemption! Berric (sp?) - His purpose finally becomes apparent - he was resurrected time and again to protect Arya. Without him, Arya likely would be dead and there would be no victory over the NK. Edd - Not exactly important to the story, but his was sad nonetheless. Melisandre - So maybe all/most of her prophecies were bullshit, so what? Without her, there would be no victory over the NK.
Honestly IDK how you can say that.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Well, I just finished it and I can't agree more with all of these good points. I spent half of it making fun of the troop placement and "tactics", which was honestly kind of a fun exercise. I spent the other half trying to figure out which dragon I'm looking at, which was a less fun exercise. I'm not going to reiterate the obvious stuff (arguing about the tactical non-logic is a fool's errand) but there are two things I want to point out that haven't been mentioned yet:
There's a good reason ... well, a bad reason but the true reason nonetheless why the Dothraki did what they did
It's because you can't reasonably shoot horses in an actual charge. Horses are fragile. If they so much as touch each other while charging they can get injured and then PETA is going to be on your case. Leeroying the calvary into an blurry, CGI death means they won't have to deal with that (and keeping the horses around for the rest of the shoot). In Battle of the Bastards, you only got horses charging in the very beginning before quietly disappearing without actually hitting anything. In other Dothraki offenses, they usually show a group of them charging, then cut to one Dothraki on one horse slicing open one guy to show that they did work
Still, I wish they came up with a less stupid way to remove the horses. Maybe they could have died from cold, starvation or some kind of accident before the fight and the Dothraki are forced to fight on foot. They spent all of ep 1 and 2 showing us how fucked the living side are. Dothraki losing their horses is in line with that
To those of you who think the Arya thing was fine, it's not
This isn't WoW. In GoT, assassins do not have shadowstep nor the kind of stealth that makes you invisible. Arya apparently ambushed the NK in the godswood, which is a wide clearing with no cover. There's literally nothing to hide behind in a large radius around her target other than zombies and white walkers, who somehow didn't notice her in contrast to her game of hide and seek in the library earlier. This goes beyond just being light of foot or sneaky; this is magic, plain and simple. And before anyone says she used a zombie face or something, she clearly wasn't wearing one when she jumped the NK. The walkers are probably psychically connected to the zombies and each other anyway
The only real explanation is that she got help from the red witch (shadow magic?) or Bran
yes, the "only" explanation. congratulations you ruined GoT for me, I'm sorry I believed this episode to be good. Thank you for enlightening me, on how I'm not allowed to like it.
gg!
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
The episode was quite entretaining despite the poor lighting, but there wasn't any emotional moment, since no important character died.
That said, I'm really glad the Night King died. I liked the White Walkers when they were just a looming threat, but once they gained importance, the whole thing became a bit stupid. The show became a fight of good vs evil, and it stoped being about politics and palace plots (you people talk about season 5, but I think the quality drop only happened in season 7, when the Night King became the main villain)
I'm looking forward to see what does Danenerys do now that she knows who Jon really is.
honestly what???
Jorah Mormont - Dany's longest running advisor and friend, who has had a pretty amazing arc. He died fighting for Dany. Lyanna Mormont - Fucking badass little girl to the 10th degree, and combined with Jorah's death, the end of House Mormont. Theon - The best character arc in modern fiction IMO. What a redemption! Berric (sp?) - His purpose finally becomes apparent - he was resurrected time and again to protect Arya. Without him, Arya likely would be dead and there would be no victory over the NK. Edd - Not exactly important to the story, but his was sad nonetheless. Melisandre - So maybe all/most of her prophecies were bullshit, so what? Without her, there would be no victory over the NK.
Honestly IDK how you can say that.
The only important characters there are Theon and maybe Jorah. Melissandre stopped playing a role after Stannis' death, with the exception of reviving Jon.
Maybe my problem isn't that these deaths weren't emotional enough, but that they were too emotional and convinient. Especially Theon's, dying just after redeeming yourself doesn't feel GoT to me. I mean, they have been doing this stuff since season 6-7, but I'm still expecting something else from them.
The only named character they did kill in a realistic and unexpected way is Edd, and he is the least important of the list. In good old days, they used to do that with fucking Robb Stark.
Since there's a lot of negativity here about the latest episode, I'm going to offer my own positive thoughts on it. A lot of it is in direct contradiction to what you guys found disappointing, so I don't expect agreement, but I figure maybe I can get you to like some part of it a little more =P
First of all, I want to make something very clear - I have not read the books, and I think comparing the show to the books at all is futile. From what I understand, they've diverged so much so long ago that trying to reconcile character portrayals or plot points from the books with the show is not worth your time. You have to look at them as two separate pieces of media. If the show not following something from the books is part of your annoyance, that's fine, I just can't agree with you on that.
Battle Tactics: I'm sorry to say this, but you guys seem to have been expecting a battle between two armies. This was never going to be that - it was always an unstoppable force meeting a woefully underprepared wall, designed only to buy them enough time to lure the Night King in. We heard it all last episode when they talked about how they were going to die, and we saw it as early as after the Dothraki hoard were slaughtered in this episode, where Jon goes to stop Daenerys from raining fire on the encroaching hoard - neither Jon or Dany were meant to engage the undead army, their entire purpose was to kill the Night King. I think the futility of their defense and the gradual advance of the dead was really well done - apart from the terrible lighting, of course, thank god for Melisandre.
Bran, Boy Blunder: I don't remember seeing any of you guys complaining about this specifically, so I wanted your thoughts on it - were any of you actually expecting Bran to do... anything? I've seen a fair few people complain that he just sat in his chair and didn't help out in the battle at all, like they expected him to suddenly Gandalf it up or something. Dude's got no legs and has displayed no magical capabilities beyond warging and looking stuff up on the GoT wiki, he was meant to be bait and he played that role admirably.
Main Character Deaths/Plot Armour: Listen. There is a time and a place for a Red Wedding style culling of characters (which, honestly, even that I don't think was handled well), and three episodes before the finale isn't it. I don't know why you guys seemed to want like, Tyrion and Jon or whoever to bumble around for three episodes with everyone else dead before Cersei finally merks them, but that would have made for a shit viewing experience. Is it incredibly unbelievable that everyone in the courtyard survived? Absolutely. Do I give a damn? Nope. The deaths we did get were all incredibly well done, apart from Melisandre - I think she should have gone up in flames as she lit the trenches, a fitting end for her after all the people she's killed in the same way.
Arya, Kingslayer: I thought this was a fantastic way for the Night King to go out. They've been building up his arrogance for a while now, with his need to kill Bran/TER/Creepoid by himself, and having him hesitate to kill this tiny little human and get killed because of it makes so much sense. In addition, Arya is literally a trained assassin, and this is a perfect culmination of her story - after everything she's gone through, pledging herself to the god of death and then turning around and fighting for life, dealing the killing blow against death itself, saving Bran with the dagger that was meant to kill him (thanks Littlefinger)... fantastic storytelling. Having the Night King die after a 1v1 with Jon would be so... anticlimactic. It's such a trope, good vs evil, final fight to the death. Similarly, them using some sort of magic spell with zero build up would have been very deus ex machina and unsatisfying, in my eyes. Would it have been cool if they'd been dropping hints about it, or gone on a quest to learn how to perform it? Sure. But just pulling it from nowhere would've been so weird, I don't know why I'm seeing people suggest that.
Now What?: This is my favourite part of this episode - they've gotten rid of the big bad with three episodes remaining. They've given themselves plenty of time to deal with the loose threads they have, and still have plenty of people they can kill off, heroically or otherwise. Now, could they screw this up? Absolutely. I'll be ranting and raving right along with the rest of you if we get a cutesy closing shot in Episode 6 of Jon and Dany and their two beautiful kids playing around the Iron Throne while Sansa and Tyrion look on happily and Arya is off, I dunno, fucking Gendry. I'm expecting more from them than that, and I hope they can deliver.
So yeah! I really enjoyed this episode a lot. It went about how I expected in terms of number of survivors, though I personally refused to guess who'd be coming out alive so I can't claim to have been right or wrong there. The Night King's death was satisfying, in fact all the MC deaths we experienced were satisfying (in their own ways). My biggest complaint with the episode was the lighting/compression issues. The actual story, and the music, my god, were fantastic.
so I'm just gonna refute all your points, because you're really not making much sense.
1) it doesn#t matter what their goals were, their tactics were absolute nonsense from any angle unless their plan was to literally suicide all their troops and hope for a miracle, because unless you forgot, Arya doing her ninja shit wasn't planned anyways. The plan was to lure the Night king into an open area with Bran and then kill him somehow. Meanwhile they don't set an ambush, leave Bran with Theon of all people (literally why not Jon, who doesn't even need to be on a dragon at all since he contributes barely anything to its combat)
THe battle was set up in such a way to get the maximum action, not in any way that the characters would realistically choose. It's bad writing at its finest and you don't need to be a military strategist to see it
2) The problem with Bran is not that we expected him to ex-machina the battle....but that there is no explained reason as to why the NK prioritizes him int he first place. He's literally a glorified drone with spoiler powers. The whole "the NK wants to destroy all memory" is just a flimsy excuse to make all this work since the NK is a pooorly written villain in the first place. You're basically giving them a free pass for the plot hole they themselves set up in the first place
3) you don#t seem to understand what plot armour is. It's not about whether this was the time to kill off characters, it'S about constructing the story in such a way where certain characters end up in a situation where they should die when clearly you don't want them to. The battle could have been written in such a way where the main characters were not in such obviously lethal situations all the time, but they didn't because no effort was put into a coherent flow. There could have been several ways where the characters could have just been put into situations where they just fought from a defensible position instead of literally being surrounded by zombies and still not dying despite the power of the hoard that was previously established. Even worse at some point literally the only living people are the main characters which makes the whole scene look ridiculous.
Just because you are able to ignore the obvious stupidity doesn't mean it's acceptable.
4) while I concede that Arya is the best choice to murder the NK it's not set up at all, doesn't feel earned (she literally didn't even know about the guy before she came to Winterfell) and overall just makes it seem like this is some fanfiction-tier wish fulfillment. I like Arya as a character, but the main thing about her was that she had this crazy journey all on her own and fought her own battles. She was kind of the counterpart to Sansa who was constantly in the spotlight, while Arya herself was living her life in the shadows. Both went through insane struggles in their own way....and now Arya just saves the day, Leeroy Jenkins style.
5) this is probably the worst part about it all. After this entirely pointless detour (since the NK is not the ultimate bad guy after all) all that really happened was Dany'S forces being nerfed after we've established before that Cersei never had a chance against her. Now we're back at a point were the good guys face impossible odds which will most likely lead to some ex-machina bullshit instead of the clever political and military strategizing that the series began as.
Whether you enjoyed this dumpsterfire is irrelevant. This is objectively poorly written and is so far detached from what GoT used to be that the only reason why it's not considered an insult to the fans, the books and just the general concept of storytelling itself is because this downward spiral has bee set up for the last 3 seasons anyways.
Enjoy it if you can, but stop trying to defend bad writing with flimsy excuses. It's people like you that let Hollywood writers get away with the bare minimum because "I was entertained, so really, they didn#t need to try anyways"
You come off as... well, an ass.
does that make my points any less valid?
no?
then I don#t care
I admire your effort friend. People do not want to accept any kind of criticism for the terrible path the writing has gone down. It's one of those things that happen in the entertainment industry - From somewhere voices keep saying "this product is great/this performer is funny and talented" etc and we're just supposed to go along with those notions even though even giving the product or performer one glimpse, you notice several flaws.
Game of Thrones is under that protected category now. You cannot critisise it if you have any sort of following and any voice talking about it in the mainstream is only saying positive things about, of course it only being shallow praise, nothing detailed.
In reality of course, the show has destroyed any depths the characters have, any depth the overarching plot had and have degenerated into a state where it is telling and not showing. It's telling you certain characters have certain traits and that they are brave and smart and whatever, even though previous seasons have shown it to be the exact opposite. It doesn't matter anymore, now this season we demand it to be so and so the characters will be change to fit it.
Read my post again, friend. Didn't defend any part of the show, the episode, etc.
Folks can disagree and not be complete tool bags about it; that's all I was speaking to. Whether he liked the show or not, I don't care. I was speaking to his method of delivery, which outs him as something of a... well. Just read it. Self-righteous? Check. Smug? Check. Condescending? Check.
The discussion about tactics was amusing, though, because a 21st century armchair general denizen of the internet... on a computer card game's message board... is talking about the medieval warfare tactics in a fictitious tv show like he's the second coming of some feudal Japanese Daimyo.
Yes, please, Yourprivatenightmare. Tell us all about the placement of troops and the strategy that you would have employed in such a scenario, that would have been so much more effective. ~sigh~
you do not need to be a decorated general to know not to a) plae your artillery on the front lines, b) send in your cavalry ina frontal charge against an enemy you can't see and that you know is made of relentless meatshields c) don't use the best infantry available as cannon fodder
If you want my idea of a strategy: Put the Unsullied as some sort of an unbreakable frontline, because in theory they should be able to hold the lind while you pelt them with the catapults who are positionened BEHIND the flammable wall. Then you have the DOthraki on the flanks to charge the zombies once they made first contact and then all you need is the dragons doing sweeping runs on the broader mass of the zombies.
and even with all of that there'S still a reasonable scenario where the defenders get overrun.
There, in 5 minutes I came up with a better solution than the overpaid writers
You can say you didn't like the episode. In fact, I do agree with you in most of the points. However, personally attacking Shadows and telling him he has no clue... that's not OK.
if he'S wrong I'll tell him he's wrong. He can have his opinion but that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism.
Most of the points he brought up are disingenous and come from a mentality of "I like it so it can'T be that bad".
you do not need to be a decorated general to know not to a) plae your artillery on the front lines, b) send in your cavalry ina frontal charge against an enemy you can't see and that you know is made of relentless meatshields c) don't use the best infantry available as cannon fodder
If you want my idea of a strategy: Put the Unsullied as some sort of an unbreakable frontline, because in theory they should be able to hold the lind while you pelt them with the catapults who are positionened BEHIND the flammable wall. Then you have the DOthraki on the flanks to charge the zombies once they made first contact and then all you need is the dragons doing sweeping runs on the broader mass of the zombies.
and even with all of that there'S still a reasonable scenario where the defenders get overrun.
There, in 5 minutes I came up with a better solution than the overpaid writers
Exactly, i know that i may have become tiresome with this ,but people overastimate the advantage of numbers. Just think about it, what other advantages other than the sheer numbers the night king has?None!The living have much more organized and battle hardened army, they have the advantage of superior technology (better equipment, artilery, possibly use of wildfire etc), they have two weapons of mass destruction (dragons), they are capable of superior tactics (as the best of night king we have seen is just the order to advance and overrun...), they had the advantage of location and fortification, the time to prepare and most importantly the knowledge of the enemy (their weaknesses and goals)! Basically they had EVERY advantage other than numbers...Fuck it, a good general would win the war against the entire horde even when each casualty joins their ranks. History has proven that.
I do not want to sound like ass but you have to be braindead to like the episode. Anyone with basic knownledge of history, fuck it!Anyone who has played any rts games would have come with a better writing.
Turns out that this episode (the technical finale of the series) was a f*ckin waste that destroyed every magical aspect of the show. Think about it! The prophecy never came to fulfillment, making it just a story you say to kids to go to bed. The warg of the show, supposedly the greatest warg alive, was completely useless. People joke about him and call him GoCrow because of how useless he was. The NK died after a switch-stab without letting us know anything about him. All the info we have is "He was human, but now he is not. He wanted to kill humans because... but now we don't know why. He wants to kill Bran because...." well, I can't find any reason. Bran is completely irrelevant to the whole show. Even the dragons were useless in the battle. Everything magical was ruined and now all we have is fuckin politics... Show was beautiful for the first 4 seasons, after that it became the definition of "all sexy, but no brains". You can literally skip the S5-8 because they are bad.
if he'S wrong I'll tell him he's wrong. He can have his opinion but that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism.
Most of the points he brought up are disingenous and come from a mentality of "I like it so it can'T be that bad".
I just want to clarify that I've never said anyone who disliked the episode was wrong for doing so. I get everyone's reasons for disliking it (for the most part, anyway, I still don't get people who expected Bran to do anything). I was just throwing out some of the things I found good about the episode because I felt bad that all of you didn't enjoy it.
Telling me how bad the strategy was isn't going to change my mind about the episode, mainly because I just don't care? I know nothing about military strategy, let alone strategy against an unrelenting wave of zombies, so telling me why it was poor strategy isn't gonna change my opinion, because I didn't like it because of the strategy in the first place. Does that make sense? I might just be rambling at this point.
Anyway, as I said, I really enjoyed it so I thought I'd share why. If you didn't like it, I'm sorry, that sucks. Hopefully they can pull together the final three episodes into something that you'll find satisfying.
Ep 3 played out like a computer game - it started with me cranking up the gamma as far as I could tolerate, was pretty much escalating action the whole way through and abruptly ended after a boss fight.
It was, however, hugely entertaining. Fine, a lot of subtlety and intruige has gone out of the window in S8 but it is still really high quality. It also isnt going the way of Lost or a David Lynch film - we’re actually going to get a coherent ending.
It was, however, hugely entertaining. Fine, a lot of subtlety and intruige has gone out of the window in S8 but it is still really high quality.
I agree that it was hugely entertaining. But imagine that. You go for drinks and you meet a woman. She is sexy af (a 10), but you realize she is incredibly stupid (a 0). Next to her is another woman. Sexy (9) but not stupid (lets say a 5). Which one do you think would be better? Watching a show that is only looks but no brains is just. Plain. Bad.
Turns out that this episode (the technical finale of the series) was a f*ckin waste that destroyed every magical aspect of the show. Think about it! The prophecy never came to fulfillment, making it just a story you say to kids to go to bed. The warg of the show, supposedly the greatest warg alive, was completely useless. People joke about him and call him GoCrow because of how useless he was. The NK died after a switch-stab without letting us know anything about him. All the info we have is "He was human, but now he is not. He wanted to kill humans because... but now we don't know why. He wants to kill Bran because...." well, I can't find any reason. Bran is completely irrelevant to the whole show. Even the dragons were useless in the battle. Everything magical was ruined and now all we have is fuckin politics... Show was beautiful for the first 4 seasons, after that it became the definition of "all sexy, but no brains". You can literally skip the S5-8 because they are bad.
I don't get how can you say simultaneously that the show was good the first 4 seasons AND say that all we have left now are politics. I mean, the first 4 seasons were basically politics + soap opera.
Turns out that this episode (the technical finale of the series) was a f*ckin waste that destroyed every magical aspect of the show. Think about it! The prophecy never came to fulfillment, making it just a story you say to kids to go to bed. The warg of the show, supposedly the greatest warg alive, was completely useless. People joke about him and call him GoCrow because of how useless he was. The NK died after a switch-stab without letting us know anything about him. All the info we have is "He was human, but now he is not. He wanted to kill humans because... but now we don't know why. He wants to kill Bran because...." well, I can't find any reason. Bran is completely irrelevant to the whole show. Even the dragons were useless in the battle. Everything magical was ruined and now all we have is fuckin politics... Show was beautiful for the first 4 seasons, after that it became the definition of "all sexy, but no brains". You can literally skip the S5-8 because they are bad.
I don't get how can you say simultaneously that the show was good the first 4 seasons AND say that all we have left now are politics. I mean, the first 4 seasons were basically politics + soap opera.
Exactly. And lots of walking. It was like an endless Anton Corbijn video.
I don't get all the complaining about prophecies not being fulfilled, no lord of light showing up, etc. The series (and more so the books) have always been about what truths we can take/accept from the stories we hear. If you took the lord of light or the Azor Ahai literally, that's your fault. There are unquestionably magics in this fictional world, but I'm not sure why you'd 100% believe all the legends and stories that have been used to explain the magic over centuries. The character of Millisandre especially has been used repeatedly throughout the show as an example of how prophecies are not what the seem and usually misinterpreted by humans.
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TBH, I'm pretty sure Theon got the highest kill count this episode, besides dragons. While Jon was running back and forth like an idiot, Theon was lighting mofos up. Also, since he's a skilled archer, it makes perfect sense to put him with Bran - he won't tire fast from hand to hand combat, and is able to keep the wights at some distance.
In a nutshell, this is the one and only strategic decision in the episode that actually makes sense.
Other than that, while I did somewhat enjoy the episode for pure entertainment value - it's a hot mess.
When did all characters who are supposedly good strategists become bllithering idiots? Cavalry at the first line? Charging into who the hell know what? It makes ZERO sense, unless all Dothraki extras had scheduled vacations during filming. Next, using their best infantry - the Unsullied - as simple meatshields? No sense. Halfasses, nay, quaterassed fortifications? Come on...
Then there's Bran watching porn on WierWood.net for the entirety of the battle. I wish they gave him at least something, ANYTHING, to do. Useless, useless boy.
I'm ok with Arya killing NK, but as was noted wish it was less anime. Also, kinda wished that Theon would've pulled a knife out of his boot and stab him right before dying.
Jesus Christ, why fucking Sam is still alive?
Worst episode of Game of Thrones ever! Whoever had the bright idea to film in the dark is an asshat. I’ve spent the majority of the episode not seeing anything! Total crap!
Dead but dreaming
I didn't love or hate the episode. Reasons below:
The episode was quite entretaining despite the poor lighting, but there wasn't any emotional moment, since no important character died.
That said, I'm really glad the Night King died. I liked the White Walkers when they were just a looming threat, but once they gained importance, the whole thing became a bit stupid. The show became a fight of good vs evil, and it stoped being about politics and palace plots (you people talk about season 5, but I think the quality drop only happened in season 7, when the Night King became the main villain)
I'm looking forward to see what does Danenerys do now that she knows who Jon really is.
honestly what???
Lyanna Mormont - Fucking badass little girl to the 10th degree, and combined with Jorah's death, the end of House Mormont.
Theon - The best character arc in modern fiction IMO. What a redemption!
Berric (sp?) - His purpose finally becomes apparent - he was resurrected time and again to protect Arya. Without him, Arya likely would be dead and there would be no victory over the NK.
Edd - Not exactly important to the story, but his was sad nonetheless.
Melisandre - So maybe all/most of her prophecies were bullshit, so what? Without her, there would be no victory over the NK.
Honestly IDK how you can say that.
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Well, I just finished it and I can't agree more with all of these good points. I spent half of it making fun of the troop placement and "tactics", which was honestly kind of a fun exercise. I spent the other half trying to figure out which dragon I'm looking at, which was a less fun exercise. I'm not going to reiterate the obvious stuff (arguing about the tactical non-logic is a fool's errand) but there are two things I want to point out that haven't been mentioned yet:
There's a good reason ... well, a bad reason but the true reason nonetheless why the Dothraki did what they did
It's because you can't reasonably shoot horses in an actual charge. Horses are fragile. If they so much as touch each other while charging they can get injured and then PETA is going to be on your case. Leeroying the calvary into an blurry, CGI death means they won't have to deal with that (and keeping the horses around for the rest of the shoot). In Battle of the Bastards, you only got horses charging in the very beginning before quietly disappearing without actually hitting anything. In other Dothraki offenses, they usually show a group of them charging, then cut to one Dothraki on one horse slicing open one guy to show that they did work
Still, I wish they came up with a less stupid way to remove the horses. Maybe they could have died from cold, starvation or some kind of accident before the fight and the Dothraki are forced to fight on foot. They spent all of ep 1 and 2 showing us how fucked the living side are. Dothraki losing their horses is in line with that
To those of you who think the Arya thing was fine, it's not
This isn't WoW. In GoT, assassins do not have shadowstep nor the kind of stealth that makes you invisible. Arya apparently ambushed the NK in the godswood, which is a wide clearing with no cover. There's literally nothing to hide behind in a large radius around her target other than zombies and white walkers, who somehow didn't notice her in contrast to her game of hide and seek in the library earlier. This goes beyond just being light of foot or sneaky; this is magic, plain and simple. And before anyone says she used a zombie face or something, she clearly wasn't wearing one when she jumped the NK. The walkers are probably psychically connected to the zombies and each other anyway
The only real explanation is that she got help from the red witch (shadow magic?) or Bran
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yes, the "only" explanation. congratulations you ruined GoT for me, I'm sorry I believed this episode to be good. Thank you for enlightening me, on how I'm not allowed to like it.
gg!
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At least this episode generated infinite memes:
Bran: -Omae mou shindeiru
Night King: -Nani?
**screeeeching**
Oh and guys, whenever you f*ck something up and feel useless, remember the Night King's generals and guards. :P
The only important characters there are Theon and maybe Jorah. Melissandre stopped playing a role after Stannis' death, with the exception of reviving Jon.
Maybe my problem isn't that these deaths weren't emotional enough, but that they were too emotional and convinient. Especially Theon's, dying just after redeeming yourself doesn't feel GoT to me. I mean, they have been doing this stuff since season 6-7, but I'm still expecting something else from them.
The only named character they did kill in a realistic and unexpected way is Edd, and he is the least important of the list. In good old days, they used to do that with fucking Robb Stark.
I guess we like GoT for different reasons.
you do not need to be a decorated general to know not to a) plae your artillery on the front lines, b) send in your cavalry ina frontal charge against an enemy you can't see and that you know is made of relentless meatshields c) don't use the best infantry available as cannon fodder
If you want my idea of a strategy: Put the Unsullied as some sort of an unbreakable frontline, because in theory they should be able to hold the lind while you pelt them with the catapults who are positionened BEHIND the flammable wall. Then you have the DOthraki on the flanks to charge the zombies once they made first contact and then all you need is the dragons doing sweeping runs on the broader mass of the zombies.
and even with all of that there'S still a reasonable scenario where the defenders get overrun.
There, in 5 minutes I came up with a better solution than the overpaid writers
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
if he'S wrong I'll tell him he's wrong. He can have his opinion but that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism.
Most of the points he brought up are disingenous and come from a mentality of "I like it so it can'T be that bad".
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
Exactly, i know that i may have become tiresome with this ,but people overastimate the advantage of numbers. Just think about it, what other advantages other than the sheer numbers the night king has?None!The living have much more organized and battle hardened army, they have the advantage of superior technology (better equipment, artilery, possibly use of wildfire etc), they have two weapons of mass destruction (dragons), they are capable of superior tactics (as the best of night king we have seen is just the order to advance and overrun...), they had the advantage of location and fortification, the time to prepare and most importantly the knowledge of the enemy (their weaknesses and goals)! Basically they had EVERY advantage other than numbers...Fuck it, a good general would win the war against the entire horde even when each casualty joins their ranks. History has proven that.
I do not want to sound like ass but you have to be braindead to like the episode. Anyone with basic knownledge of history, fuck it!Anyone who has played any rts games would have come with a better writing.
"I do not want to sound like ass but you have to be braindead to like the episode."
For sure you have to be braindead to type sht like this lol.
Aahh, a comment worthy of 1 post shock account!
Spoilers!
Turns out that this episode (the technical finale of the series) was a f*ckin waste that destroyed every magical aspect of the show. Think about it! The prophecy never came to fulfillment, making it just a story you say to kids to go to bed. The warg of the show, supposedly the greatest warg alive, was completely useless. People joke about him and call him GoCrow because of how useless he was. The NK died after a switch-stab without letting us know anything about him. All the info we have is "He was human, but now he is not. He wanted to kill humans because... but now we don't know why. He wants to kill Bran because...." well, I can't find any reason. Bran is completely irrelevant to the whole show. Even the dragons were useless in the battle. Everything magical was ruined and now all we have is fuckin politics... Show was beautiful for the first 4 seasons, after that it became the definition of "all sexy, but no brains". You can literally skip the S5-8 because they are bad.
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Aeroplanes*
I just want to clarify that I've never said anyone who disliked the episode was wrong for doing so. I get everyone's reasons for disliking it (for the most part, anyway, I still don't get people who expected Bran to do anything). I was just throwing out some of the things I found good about the episode because I felt bad that all of you didn't enjoy it.
Telling me how bad the strategy was isn't going to change my mind about the episode, mainly because I just don't care? I know nothing about military strategy, let alone strategy against an unrelenting wave of zombies, so telling me why it was poor strategy isn't gonna change my opinion, because I didn't like it because of the strategy in the first place. Does that make sense? I might just be rambling at this point.
Anyway, as I said, I really enjoyed it so I thought I'd share why. If you didn't like it, I'm sorry, that sucks. Hopefully they can pull together the final three episodes into something that you'll find satisfying.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
Ep 3 played out like a computer game - it started with me cranking up the gamma as far as I could tolerate, was pretty much escalating action the whole way through and abruptly ended after a boss fight.
It was, however, hugely entertaining. Fine, a lot of subtlety and intruige has gone out of the window in S8 but it is still really high quality. It also isnt going the way of Lost or a David Lynch film - we’re actually going to get a coherent ending.
I agree that it was hugely entertaining. But imagine that. You go for drinks and you meet a woman. She is sexy af (a 10), but you realize she is incredibly stupid (a 0). Next to her is another woman. Sexy (9) but not stupid (lets say a 5). Which one do you think would be better? Watching a show that is only looks but no brains is just. Plain. Bad.
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I don't get how can you say simultaneously that the show was good the first 4 seasons AND say that all we have left now are politics. I mean, the first 4 seasons were basically politics + soap opera.
Exactly. And lots of walking. It was like an endless Anton Corbijn video.
I don't get all the complaining about prophecies not being fulfilled, no lord of light showing up, etc. The series (and more so the books) have always been about what truths we can take/accept from the stories we hear. If you took the lord of light or the Azor Ahai literally, that's your fault. There are unquestionably magics in this fictional world, but I'm not sure why you'd 100% believe all the legends and stories that have been used to explain the magic over centuries. The character of Millisandre especially has been used repeatedly throughout the show as an example of how prophecies are not what the seem and usually misinterpreted by humans.