It is totally ok tho to seek information trough more experienced people. I get your point that you need to learn by yourself and stuff but I diasgree with it. I think we should be more focused about learning from past generations and people with more knowledge and then add something from ourselves if we archieve results that are better. That is called progress. Learning all things by yourself is not time productive compared to learning the thingts from some sources. Why would you have to learn how the gravitation works again if there is literally answer in books? Why would you want to learn how to drive a car in a new absurd way if there is already working way by driving with your hands and legs? I mean you get my points. While I support creativity, I also support learning from more experienced people. I would be able to figure out the things about this game and such but much later than learning from pros. And when you actually get on their level somehow by game knowledge or skill or whatever, then you can actually form your indenpendent opinions and bring some new approach.
Reading your thread and signature and all that, you seem just as poisonous as the extreme netdeckers killing their brain (your words not mine)
"Never talks competitively about hearthstone. Hates tournements, streamers and poor-o players" that doesn't sound healthy at all.
If that is the kind of brainstorming you suggest, I think people are better off being brainless netdeckers. At least they're not making threads "stop playing fun deck this poisonous way of playing ranked games, think your own way and find the best winrate deck idiots"
that signature doesn't mean that I am playing meme-decks on ranked and want to climb ranks with those and blaming people because they are netdecking and I can not climb because of them.
It is there because when I said something about cards in this forum, everyone gets it competitively and I wanted to show people I am not speaking with that way.
I always play casuals If you really wonder. There is no need of biases. I had wrote that already try to pretend biases and you had even got yours from that signature. It is really weird.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Exactly who says the streamers are fucking god? wtf
People say that just because they are to lazy to explain everything themselfs (and there are a lot of things to explain in hs). Streamers just play for hours at a time and explain their thought process out loud. There are countless examples of out-of-the-box thinking i saw from these streamers that made me a better player. And of course anyone can be better then them if you decide to dedicate your life to a video game. Until you do and become better then them just accept there are people who play better than you or me.
There are many occasions (not only Hearthstone) where matters can be shown and explained easiest with a video. I don't get how this "kills your brain". Videos (especially Video Tutorials) are a basic part of today's learning culture - and I'm thankful for that!
I'm also part of the "plus 40" community and I'm holding lectures at the University. Sometimes I find videos that are so brilliant I just show them to my students and discuss them afterwards. I think this can be really enlightening and far from "killing creativity"
Of course watching YouTube alone won't make you a good player. You'll still need a lot of practice to get used to the different mechanics and play styles.
But generally condemning people for proposing videos as a learning method is "against wisdom and communication" to use your own words...
Yes condemning people about anything is rude but I'm not in that boat. I didn't say condemn people to learn from videos. I'm telling about leading people. If a person wants to learn from videos, you can't do anything because she/he decided to learn from that way. What I am against is "leading people to learn from videos" like it is the only way of learning. I called it poisonous.
I'm not a native english speaker and sometimes i can choose wrong words for wrong statements. If I bother anyone with my wrong wording, sorry for that but I think you understand what I am trying to tell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I once heard of a musician who said he doesn't listen to any other artists in order not to be influenced by them. I know photographers who refuse to read the basics of photography "because rules will hurt their art". I know a Starcraft player who refused to read build orders because it will "make him less creative and more predictable".
Your mindset reminds me of those.
Thing is, most (all?) of those people created bad "art" (or sucked at their chosen skill), got nowhere or gave up completely, and all because they refused to acknowledge that there ARE experts who know better, that there ARE rules that make sense, and that they are NOT geniuses who will single-handedly become self-taught masters (not that this can't happen, but considering the chances it would be a very bad advice to give someone).
They failed to realize that the way to greatness is to learn from the experts and then build on top of that, to learn the rules and then break them when needed. Mostly, it was because that path was simply too much work for them. They didn't want to learn, they just wanted to have fun. And that's ok, but it won't make you good.
You're not hurting your brain by accepting reality. You're hurting your chances in life (and any skill) by refusing to take knowledge that took others years to create, and thinking you are the next Newton or Einstein (bad comparison, turns out they also got a lot of education before eventually building up on it).
"Stop learning Calculus from teachers. Don't use Calculus as Isaac Newton made it, figure it out yourself, learn yourself, don't kill your brain by mindlessly following what other people have written down."
Extreme example, but people learn from something. It's not exactly a sin to watch and learn from better people. It's a fallacy that true learning is purely done by yourself. Use your resources. Study smart.
I didn't mean that. Your leading to pros make people lazy. I meant that. There are always experts, we can't do better is a wrong opinion in my opinion.
Of course we can be better, but we be better through learning, and there are many ways to learn. Learning from watching or doing online research is not "lazy." Have you ever done research while writing a thesis or a dissertation? There are dozens of citations usually involved. You are googling and taking ideas from people with more experience, and incorporating that into your own ideas and actions. No different than hearthstone.
There's a famous quote about "standing on the shoulder of giants," which essentially means we build off discoveries and accompishments of the past.
Yes, humanity grows upon attaching the information one after another. We all are and must be thankful to our mentors, advisors and teachers.
In my culture, it is also so important the communication between apprentice and the master but What I defend is not against to condemn people to learn from those. What What I am against is "leading people to learn from videos" like it is the only way of learning. I called it poisonous. like i said the post above this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Ok this entire thread is becoming to toxic. Please explain what exactpy you are trying to acomplish here. Fron what you said you basicly: Hate streamers and hate that people say to new players to watch streamers because you cansider they have to play by themselfs to become good and that watching streamers makes them braindead and we can become better then the streamers so they aren't gods. Did i get that right?
Telling people they are "killing their brains" through the way the choose to play a game is considered a dick move in English.
To be honest, I'm not sure what you are "trying to tell", but you have been rude and not constructive.
I net deck these days, as I choose to play as light entertainment and dip in and out as a f2p. I used to play much more homebred in vanilla when I had few cards and was learning the game. I don't come to HS looking for intellectual stimulation, I get plenty through my job and my other hobbies. Assuming I'm killing my brain by net decking and watching Kripp is very wide of the mark, and coming here to tell me that is just obnoxious.
"This is blocking the way of all humanity for all of professions, science, etc. "we can't think better than Einstein" This is a pathetic opinion. "
"It is an issue of real life. I know that and I am aware of that I can't fix that issue from a gaming forum but almost all community leads people to this dump well. This bothers me a lot."
From rhetorical standpoint, I believe the point of this discussions has been lost somewhere a page ago. I tried to understand your way of thinking, but in the end it just seems the whole thread was just about "I"and how "I think it should be done".
Putting people in a "dump well" bracket, just because you think that their way of experiencing the game/learning/or whatever the hell bothers you at the moment, makes you seem like the actual "poisonous" person. But that's just my opinion.
I am against that thought which is "there are some experts for some stuff, we can't do better than them so we have to learn from that"
This is killing your brains.
This is blocking the way of all humanity for all of professions, science, etc. "we can't think better than Einstein" This is a pathetic opinion.
I think this statement is quite silly. You are saying if you learn something from a person then you can never outdo that person. Sometimes you got to learn the basics from someone and then you can eventually improve on that, making your own ideas etc. It's quite narrow minded to say: "If you learn this from X then you'll share X's vision forever and therefore you can never be better than that person".
And what's your point with science? That science haven't made any progress since Einstein made some brilliant observations and therefore we just worship him while being stalemate?
You can and should give specific suggesstions on specific questions.
If the question is "how can i learn fast" then watching others is the best answer.
"Watch and learn". It is the necessary (granted, insufficient) principle of instruction of any kind, including silly HS.
Thinking you can learn everything on your own is extremely naive and ultimately very dangerous to suggest: it leads to people with the arrogance of knowing everything while they haven't seen the rest of things to know (the vast majority of things).
So I actually went back and checked out that thread you linked, OP... The topic creator was super happy and thankful for all of the suggestions they got.
No one even ONCE was it said that Youtubers/Pros were the only viable way to learn, just that checking them out can give you a good place to start and a leg up on your peers when it comes to knowing what to start working towards - all of which is true.
Seems to me like you're a bit extra sensative to the subject and took your offense at learning via videos/streamers a bit too far...
It is there because when I said something about cards in this forum, everyone gets it competitively and I wanted to show people I am not speaking with that way
It's a netdeck website. Maybe you should show people you are into fun decks when actually talking about cards.
I've seen a lot of threads talking about non-competitive hearthstone stuff, nothing went wrong, just make your point clear. I still don't get what you're trying to do with THIS thread. The brain killing nonsense, what was that?
Actually why are you even on this website if you hate competitive hearthstone so much? That's weird too.
That signature doesn't show people I am into fun decks ?
I am here because of fan creations, quick hearthstone news attached one place, this site is helping me to create decks before new cards release so I can quickly copy my created decks to the hearthstone and I like to talk about hearthstone and cards. I think all of these are enough to use a website like this.
This thread is basically for that "leading people to learn from videos like it is the only way of learning is making people lazy". When they don't ask youtubers or streamers please don't lead them to there like it is the only way. Just share that it is another way of learning out of so much more.
I didn't understand why most of you are so aggressive. I was not aggressive while I am opening this thread.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I once heard of a musician who said he doesn't listen to any other artists in order not to be influenced by them. I know photographers who refuse to read the basics of photography "because rules will hurt their art". I know a Starcraft player who refused to read build orders because it will "make him less creative and more predictable".
Your mindset reminds me of those.
Thing is, most (all?) of those people created bad "art" (or sucked at their chosen skill), got nowhere or gave up completely, and all because they refused to acknowledge that there ARE experts who know better, that there ARE rules that make sense, and that they are NOT geniuses who will single-handedly become self-taught masters (not that this can't happen, but considering the chances it would be a very bad advice to give someone).
They failed to realize that the way to greatness is to learn from the experts and then build on top of that, to learn the rules and then break them when needed. Mostly, it was because that path was simply too much work for them. They didn't want to learn, they just wanted to have fun. And that's ok, but it won't make you good.
You're not hurting your brain by accepting reality. You're hurting your chances in life (and any skill) by refusing to take knowledge that took others years to create, and thinking you are the next Newton or Einstein (bad comparison, turns out they also got a lot of education before eventually building up on it).
I am not like that btw.
What I am saying is a different thing. What I am saying is leading people. I did not say that don't learn from streamers or youtubers or don't netdeck. I am speaking about leading.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I didn't get It. U r saying that using the smartphone to search answers and watching people that are already good at something is wrong? Sorry, but that doenst make Sense. Learning from the ones who came before us is How se get Here. Newton didnt start from the zero, why would anyone Else start? U can Learn by yourself, no problema at ALL, but saying that doing It in other way is wrong... Is madness
Just no, You got it backwards, want to learn something , You do research. We live in times where instead of flipping pages of encyclopedias You can just google the topic and get familiar with the basics. Read about strategies, watch how they are executed and then we can have a discussion about making them better. Don't be a clueless child in the fog.
Ok this entire thread is becoming to toxic. Please explain what exactpy you are trying to acomplish here. Fron what you said you basicly: Hate streamers and hate that people say to new players to watch streamers because you cansider they have to play by themselfs to become good and that watching streamers makes them braindead and we can become better then the streamers so they aren't gods. Did i get that right?
No.
I am not trying to be toxic. just this;
leading people to learn from videos like it is the only way of learning is wrong. Let's don't suggest that this is the only way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
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Dude, please...
It is totally ok tho to seek information trough more experienced people. I get your point that you need to learn by yourself and stuff but I diasgree with it. I think we should be more focused about learning from past generations and people with more knowledge and then add something from ourselves if we archieve results that are better. That is called progress. Learning all things by yourself is not time productive compared to learning the thingts from some sources. Why would you have to learn how the gravitation works again if there is literally answer in books? Why would you want to learn how to drive a car in a new absurd way if there is already working way by driving with your hands and legs? I mean you get my points. While I support creativity, I also support learning from more experienced people. I would be able to figure out the things about this game and such but much later than learning from pros. And when you actually get on their level somehow by game knowledge or skill or whatever, then you can actually form your indenpendent opinions and bring some new approach.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
that signature doesn't mean that I am playing meme-decks on ranked and want to climb ranks with those and blaming people because they are netdecking and I can not climb because of them.
It is there because when I said something about cards in this forum, everyone gets it competitively and I wanted to show people I am not speaking with that way.
I always play casuals If you really wonder. There is no need of biases. I had wrote that already try to pretend biases and you had even got yours from that signature. It is really weird.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Exactly who says the streamers are fucking god? wtf
People say that just because they are to lazy to explain everything themselfs (and there are a lot of things to explain in hs). Streamers just play for hours at a time and explain their thought process out loud. There are countless examples of out-of-the-box thinking i saw from these streamers that made me a better player. And of course anyone can be better then them if you decide to dedicate your life to a video game. Until you do and become better then them just accept there are people who play better than you or me.
Yes condemning people about anything is rude but I'm not in that boat. I didn't say condemn people to learn from videos. I'm telling about leading people. If a person wants to learn from videos, you can't do anything because she/he decided to learn from that way. What I am against is "leading people to learn from videos" like it is the only way of learning. I called it poisonous.
I'm not a native english speaker and sometimes i can choose wrong words for wrong statements. If I bother anyone with my wrong wording, sorry for that but I think you understand what I am trying to tell.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I once heard of a musician who said he doesn't listen to any other artists in order not to be influenced by them.
I know photographers who refuse to read the basics of photography "because rules will hurt their art".
I know a Starcraft player who refused to read build orders because it will "make him less creative and more predictable".
Your mindset reminds me of those.
Thing is, most (all?) of those people created bad "art" (or sucked at their chosen skill), got nowhere or gave up completely, and all because they refused to acknowledge that there ARE experts who know better, that there ARE rules that make sense, and that they are NOT geniuses who will single-handedly become self-taught masters (not that this can't happen, but considering the chances it would be a very bad advice to give someone).
They failed to realize that the way to greatness is to learn from the experts and then build on top of that, to learn the rules and then break them when needed. Mostly, it was because that path was simply too much work for them. They didn't want to learn, they just wanted to have fun. And that's ok, but it won't make you good.
You're not hurting your brain by accepting reality.
You're hurting your chances in life (and any skill) by refusing to take knowledge that took others years to create, and thinking you are the next Newton or Einstein (bad comparison, turns out they also got a lot of education before eventually building up on it).
Yes, humanity grows upon attaching the information one after another. We all are and must be thankful to our mentors, advisors and teachers.
In my culture, it is also so important the communication between apprentice and the master but What I defend is not against to condemn people to learn from those. What What I am against is "leading people to learn from videos" like it is the only way of learning. I called it poisonous. like i said the post above this.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Ok this entire thread is becoming to toxic. Please explain what exactpy you are trying to acomplish here. Fron what you said you basicly: Hate streamers and hate that people say to new players to watch streamers because you cansider they have to play by themselfs to become good and that watching streamers makes them braindead and we can become better then the streamers so they aren't gods. Did i get that right?
What does your stance on the sharing of knowledge and ideas say about you?
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
Telling people they are "killing their brains" through the way the choose to play a game is considered a dick move in English.
To be honest, I'm not sure what you are "trying to tell", but you have been rude and not constructive.
I net deck these days, as I choose to play as light entertainment and dip in and out as a f2p. I used to play much more homebred in vanilla when I had few cards and was learning the game. I don't come to HS looking for intellectual stimulation, I get plenty through my job and my other hobbies. Assuming I'm killing my brain by net decking and watching Kripp is very wide of the mark, and coming here to tell me that is just obnoxious.
From rhetorical standpoint, I believe the point of this discussions has been lost somewhere a page ago. I tried to understand your way of thinking, but in the end it just seems the whole thread was just about "I" and how "I think it should be done".
Putting people in a "dump well" bracket, just because you think that their way of experiencing the game/learning/or whatever the hell bothers you at the moment, makes you seem like the actual "poisonous" person. But that's just my opinion.
I think this statement is quite silly. You are saying if you learn something from a person then you can never outdo that person. Sometimes you got to learn the basics from someone and then you can eventually improve on that, making your own ideas etc. It's quite narrow minded to say: "If you learn this from X then you'll share X's vision forever and therefore you can never be better than that person".
And what's your point with science? That science haven't made any progress since Einstein made some brilliant observations and therefore we just worship him while being stalemate?
You can and should give specific suggesstions on specific questions.
If the question is "how can i learn fast" then watching others is the best answer.
"Watch and learn". It is the necessary (granted, insufficient) principle of instruction of any kind, including silly HS.
Thinking you can learn everything on your own is extremely naive and ultimately very dangerous to suggest: it leads to people with the arrogance of knowing everything while they haven't seen the rest of things to know (the vast majority of things).
So I actually went back and checked out that thread you linked, OP... The topic creator was super happy and thankful for all of the suggestions they got.
No one even ONCE was it said that Youtubers/Pros were the only viable way to learn, just that checking them out can give you a good place to start and a leg up on your peers when it comes to knowing what to start working towards - all of which is true.
Seems to me like you're a bit extra sensative to the subject and took your offense at learning via videos/streamers a bit too far...
That signature doesn't show people I am into fun decks ?
I am here because of fan creations, quick hearthstone news attached one place, this site is helping me to create decks before new cards release so I can quickly copy my created decks to the hearthstone and I like to talk about hearthstone and cards. I think all of these are enough to use a website like this.
This thread is basically for that "leading people to learn from videos like it is the only way of learning is making people lazy". When they don't ask youtubers or streamers please don't lead them to there like it is the only way. Just share that it is another way of learning out of so much more.
I didn't understand why most of you are so aggressive. I was not aggressive while I am opening this thread.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I am not like that btw.
What I am saying is a different thing. What I am saying is leading people. I did not say that don't learn from streamers or youtubers or don't netdeck. I am speaking about leading.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I didn't get It. U r saying that using the smartphone to search answers and watching people that are already good at something is wrong? Sorry, but that doenst make Sense. Learning from the ones who came before us is How se get Here. Newton didnt start from the zero, why would anyone Else start? U can Learn by yourself, no problema at ALL, but saying that doing It in other way is wrong... Is madness
Youtube> Miranda - Enigma
Listen this and chill out all of you :D
Just no, You got it backwards, want to learn something , You do research. We live in times where instead of flipping pages of encyclopedias You can just google the topic and get familiar with the basics. Read about strategies, watch how they are executed and then we can have a discussion about making them better. Don't be a clueless child in the fog.
No.
I am not trying to be toxic. just this;
leading people to learn from videos like it is the only way of learning is wrong. Let's don't suggest that this is the only way.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!