It's not about being able to play competitive is about stopping or at least mitigating practices that encourage gabmbling in children's games such as lootboxes.
Actually, the competitive part is far more of an issue, even a whiff of pay-to-win is a big design problem that puts off more casual players in favour of spending 'whales'. In the long run it can alienate a mass market player base in preference of a small number of highly-profitable players.
Hearthstone doesn't really have that problem, most people with minimal spend can build highly competitive decks.
Plus in Europe at least BF2 has a PEGI 16 rating so the old/tired 'won't someone think of the children' argument is pretty weak.
I'm editor of the UK's trade magazine for the games industry, so you could argue I'm pro-industry but I still think there's clear lines between BF2 and HS.
Because age ratings always stop people below the required age from buying that product. Look at Hs's art, dialogues and general style, its clearly meant to be marketed towards children or at least young teens.
I don't see that at all to be honest, it's light and fun in the main, but it's inline with all Blizzard's stuff. And it appeals to me and I'm on my forties.
Yes, games get into younger hands, but parents who let their kids run riot with their credit cards really should know better. Please let's move away from this old-fashioned Eighties-Nineties 'games are for kids' style moralising.
Cases where games " caused" violent acts are relatively sparse and can be attributed to mental illness or other factors while every other week I see a case of a kid spending thousands of dollars in an online game with lootboxes or similar stuff. It's not even that I care sooooooooooo much about the kids I just think it would be nice if the chances of getting cards of higher rarities in packs increased, for example.
As expensive as it is to unlock everything in Battlefront 2 , i´m pretty sure that to get everything in Hearthstone you would have to spend an equal or even greater amount of money and time. I suggest we start a boycott and simply stop buying packs with real money until Blizzard changes their predatory practices in what is supposed to be a game for teens-kids. Join me if you feel the same.
Why do you feel that you should be able to get everything without great effort, time, and/or money?
Being able to play the game vs being able to play competitively vs being able to have everything are all very different things.
when did I say that i wanted to get everything without doing anything? why do people only read the title of a thread before commenting? , the discussion has advanced!
Actually I read the title and the OP. I have stuff to do other than read through each individual's comments in the thread. You may not have explicitly stated that you want it for nothing, but you implied that you shouldn't have to spend large amounts of time and money to get everything in HS.
As expensive as it is to unlock everything in Battlefront 2 , i´m pretty sure that to get everything in Hearthstone you would have to spend an equal or even greater amount of money and time. I suggest we start a boycott and simply stop buying packs with real money until Blizzard changes their predatory practices in what is supposed to be a game for teens-kids. Join me if you feel the same.
Why do you feel that you should be able to get everything without great effort, time, and/or money?
Being able to play the game vs being able to play competitively vs being able to have everything are all very different things.
when did I say that i wanted to get everything without doing anything? why do people only read the title of a thread before commenting? , the discussion has advanced!
Actually I read the title and the OP. I have stuff to do other than read through each individual's comments in the thread. You may not have explicitly stated that you want it for nothing, but you implied that you shouldn't have to spend large amounts of time and money to get everything in HS.
Is it such a sin to expect full access to a game's contest for a sensible amount of money in 2017?. Look at people like Kripp that have bought thousands upon thousands of packs and dont even have a full golden collection. It's not like I'm a full-free to play enthusiast. I just think things could be better with a different pay model.
Honestly as a player who likes to have all the cards, the change to no duplicate legendary has actually significantly lowered my costs, so I have been quite happy. I think doubling up on class legendaries has been overkill, but on the whole I think they've been making positive changes. And the three full expansions as opposed to adventures scenario, I think I've been enjoying the new content enough to enjoy it.
Actually I read the title and the OP. I have stuff to do other than read through each individual's comments in the thread. You may not have explicitly stated that you want it for nothing, but you implied that you shouldn't have to spend large amounts of time and money to get everything in HS.
Is it such a sin to expect full access to a game's contest for a sensible amount of money in 2017?. Look at people like Kripp that have bought thousands upon thousands of packs and dont even have a full golden collection. It's not like I'm a full-free to play enthusiast. I just think things could be better with a different pay model.
You are more or less asking for a subscription-based game to function as a platformer where you spend money once and get both the content and the extra cosmetics to boot. What's next, are we going to start petitioning that WoW also abandons its pay model so that everyone gets 2+ years worth of play time for the initial price of an expansion, or a platform title (say $50-$70)?
Btw, having all of the cards is not the same as having full access to the content of the game. That is where people on your side of the argument go wrong. The CONTENT is in the game modes, not the individual cards, per say. Sure, you need cards to play through the content, but you don't need all, or even most, of the cards to queue for games, earn gold for arena runs, or even reach legend.
TL;DR: Game modes & a means to progress through the modes = content. Having a full collection =/= the game's content.
Actually I read the title and the OP. I have stuff to do other than read through each individual's comments in the thread. You may not have explicitly stated that you want it for nothing, but you implied that you shouldn't have to spend large amounts of time and money to get everything in HS.
Is it such a sin to expect full access to a game's contest for a sensible amount of money in 2017?. Look at people like Kripp that have bought thousands upon thousands of packs and dont even have a full golden collection. It's not like I'm a full-free to play enthusiast. I just think things could be better with a different pay model.
You are more or less asking for a subscription-based game to function as a platformer where you spend money once and get both the content and the extra cosmetics to boot. What's next, are we going to start petitioning that WoW also abandons its pay model so that everyone gets 2+ years worth of play time for the initial price of an expansion, or a platform title (say $50-$70)?
Btw, having all of the cards is not the same as having full access to the content of the game. That is where people on your side of the argument go wrong. The CONTENT is in the game modes, not the individual cards, per say. Sure, you need cards to play through the content, but you don't need all, or even most, of the cards to queue for games, earn gold for arena runs, or even reach legend.
TL;DR: Game modes & a means to progress through the modes = content. Having a full collection =/= the game's content.
Look at Marvel vs capcom infinte: technically you have access to every game mode but CONTENT is blocked behind a paywall because you have to pay to play as 4 of the characthers.
The people of Reddit are being total babies about the pricing in the game. Yes it expensive compared to other video games, but one thing people keep forgetting IT’S A CARD GAME the price is nowhere near as close as it is in magic or yugio or even fricking Pokémon to be competitive. I’m able to play competitively on this game and I’ve only spent around $100 that is nowhere near the amount people spend on other card games.
The reason why swbf2 was such a big deal wasn’t necessary the loot boxes it was that you had to pay $60 for a game with a ftp model
I hate when people bring up this argument. Can you sell you Hearthstone collection? Not really. You will most likely have to sell your account at a significant loss. In TCGs like MTG and Pokemon, you can at least break even selling your cards. Let's not forget that actual cards have the potential to increase in value down the line.
The people of Reddit are being total babies about the pricing in the game. Yes it expensive compared to other video games, but one thing people keep forgetting IT’S A CARD GAME the price is nowhere near as close as it is in magic or yugio or even fricking Pokémon to be competitive. I’m able to play competitively on this game and I’ve only spent around $100 that is nowhere near the amount people spend on other card games.
The reason why swbf2 was such a big deal wasn’t necessary the loot boxes it was that you had to pay $60 for a game with a ftp model
I hate when people bring up this argument. Can you sell you Hearthstone collection? Not really. You will most likely have to sell your account at a significant loss. In TCGs like MTG and Pokemon, you can at least break even selling your cards. Let's not forget that actual cards have the potential to increase in value down the line.
And that, among other reasons, is why the game costs LESS than the physical card games, because you can't sell your cards. Be grateful that you even have the choice to skip, or at least quicken, the rng grind of pulling cards from packs in the random pack lotto when you buy packs with both gold and real money (even getting guaranteed legendaries every 40 packs (since when would you ever see something like that in a physical card game?). Better yet, feel grateful that you can 'cheat' the system of blind pack openings entirely because of the crafting system.
Peddle your HS version of WoW's welfare items elsewhere sir, you are not owed the entire collection of an online card game because you are used to buying Halo at your local Wallmart for $50.
HS releases less than half as many cards each year as many IRL card games - Wild won't have a card pool as large as MtG Standard until the December expansion is released next year. Unlike IRL games, HS gives away most of its content for free, as a reward for simply playing the game. Anyone who completes their dailies, and wins a TB every week will "earn" nearly 300 free packs each year. This site has a thread for players who wish to exploit the "Play a Friend" quest - it's currently on its fourth or fifth iteration, and each previous thread has featured 10K to 50K contributors. I have about thirty friends, and receive a couple PaF requests each week. Another 80 packs each year. The game gives every player a free treasure chest at the end of each season, free legendaries with each expansion - everyone is guaranteed 3 legendaries with K&C - and free loot from all of the new events which the game has featured ever since BB became the HS Overlord. Altogether, it isn't difficult to collect over 400 packs, over 2000 cards, each year without spending any money on the game. To top things off, only a third of the cards from any set ever see regular competitive play - collecting 40ish cards every four months isn't exactly an onerous task, given how generous the game is. The HS subreddit is a place where kids can safely role-play - they can pretend to be design geniuses, gaming geniuses and business geniuses who understand everything about the game much better than the fools who actually make it. An obvious corollary is that none of the pretension needs to be taken seriously. Nothing prevents Blizzard from releasing as many cards each year as regular CCGs, apart from their desire to keep the game F2P. Many of the devs formerly worked for WotC designing MtG, and the team wouldn't have the slightest difficulty releasing expansions twice as large as the small, F2P friendly, 135 card sets which we currently see.
If the OP prefers to ignore all of this, and pretend that Blizzard deserves to be "boycotted" for giving away most of their HS content for free, but not as much as he wants them to - it's a free country, and no one is going to stop him.
HS releases less than half as many cards each year as many IRL card games - Wild won't have a card pool as large as MtG Standard until the December expansion is released next year. Unlike IRL games, HS gives away most of its content for free, simply for playing the game. Anyone who completes their dailies, and wins a TB every week will "earn" nearly 300 free packs each year. This site has a thread for players who wish to exploit the "Play a Friend" quest - it's currently on its fourth or fifth iteration, and each previous thread has featured 10K to 50K contributors. I have about thirty friends, and receive a couple PaF requests each week. Another 80 packs each year. The game gives every player a free treasure chest at the end of each season, free legendaries with each expansion - everyone is guaranteed 3 legendaries with K&C - and free loot from all of the new events which the game has featured ever since BB became the HS Overlord. Altogether, it isn't difficult to collect over 400 packs, over 2000 cards, each year without spending any money on the game. To top things off, only a third of the cards from any set ever see regular competitive play - collecting 40ish cards every four months isn't exactly an onerous task, given how generous the game is. The HS subreddit is a place where kids can safely role-play - they can pretend to be design geniuses, gaming geniuses and business geniuses who understand everything about the game much better than the fools who actually make it. An obvious corollary is that none of the pretension needs to be taken seriously. Nothing prevents Blizzard from releasing as many cards each year as regular CCGs, apart from their desire to keep the game F2P. Many of the devs formerly worked for WotC designing MtG, and the team wouldn't have the slightest difficulty releasing expansions twice as large as the small, F2P friendly, 135 card sets which we currently see.
If the OP prefers to ignore all of this, and pretend that Blizzard deserves to be "boycotted" for giving away most of their HS content for free, but not as much as he wants them to - Christ. It's a free country, and no one is going to stop him.
Absolutely nothing about the game's selling model can be improved you are absolutely right sir! There is also no way that someone that get's paid for making money with the game has an interest in making that game as expensive as possible over thousands of people that discuss that game, no no no no!! Also reddit has people from all kinds of places so it's way more conceited to think that they are not capable of devising a better pay model than the HS developers. Anyways i'm done with this thread, you guys keep slaving away for a few new gifs each week. Peace!
People who say that buying full set of card for sth like 80$ would take away excitment from opening packs and all that stupidity seem to have missed that we used to have a thing called "adventures" where you did pretty much that, you paid a certain price for a full set of card (even though it was smaller pool of cards), and haven't seen a single person complain about "adventures take away excitment from opening packs" or something like that. So I think that would be fine.
P.S. HS is a money sink, admit it people. Kinda good money sink, but still a money sink. Shit is pretty overpriced. ~1.3$ for a virtual pack of virtual cards that cost literally nothing to be made unlike physical cards? Nah man.
People who say that buying full set of card for sth like 80$ would take away excitment from opening packs and all that stupidity seem to have missed that we used to have a thing called "adventures" where you did pretty much that, you paid a certain price for a full set of card (even though it was smaller pool of cards), and haven't seen a single person complain about "adventures take away excitment from opening packs" or something like that. So I think that would be fine.
P.S. HS is a money sink, admit it people. Kinda good money sink, but still a money sink. Ahit is pretty overpriced. ~1.3$ for a virtual pack of virtual cards that cost literally nothing to be made unlike physical cards? Nah man.
Lol it costs nothing to make virtual cards? Do you know how naive that statement is? Do you think the artists who create the art for the cards, or the designers who work the systems that put all of the technical borders and parts of the card together do their jobs for free with no payment needed to be paid out from Blizzard? Do you really think the voice actors for the cards that "cost literally nothing" also do their jobs for free? I think you better stop stop thinking with your "Brode & Blizzard are greedy b*st*rds!" cap because the details of what goes into the game, that you are clearly glossing over, is "Outstanding!"
I already "Boycotting" the HS by playing F2P, NO MONEY FOR BLIZZARD kappa.
But seriously this is a F2P CCG/TCG, you need to open pack to progress like in any CCG/TCG. Why do you think many people watch "Opening Pack" video? Opening a pack in HS is exciting. If you claim that HS is predatory because of pack system, why not boycot all of the CCG/TCG model? Why blame HS when other do it first and get away with it? You may say you can get a specific card you want by paying other people more money to get it in Magic or YGO, but you can get the specific card by the Dust system in HS.
I say paying money up front to get all the card in CCG/TCG without opening pack goes against the spirit of this type of game. If you still want a way to spend money to get specific card, there is a way in CCG/TCG and that is by buying a Booster Pack. This way you buy a pack that contain a pre made deck and get all the cards in it. In HS they can sell the Deck Recipe into Booster Pack, for it's value you guarantee all the card that listed in the Deck Recipe. Maybe sell it for $20-$30 and I think that's reasonable to get the ready to play deck that guarantee you to get a specific card.
I already "Boycotting" the HS by playing F2P, NO MONEY FOR BLIZZARD kappa.
But seriously this is a F2P CCG/TCG, you need to open pack to progress like in any CCG/TCG. Why do you think many people watch "Opening Pack" video? Opening a pack in HS is exciting. If you claim that HS is predatory because of pack system, why not boycot all of the CCG/TCG model? Why blame HS when other do it first and get away with it? You may say you can get a specific card you want by paying other people more money to get it in Magic or YGO, but you can get the specific card by the Dust system in HS.
I say paying money up front to get all the card in CCG/TCG without opening pack goes against the spirit of this type of game. If you still want a way to spend money to get specific card, there is a way in CCG/TCG and that is by buying a Booster Pack. This way you buy a pack that contain a pre made deck and get all the cards in it. In HS they can sell the Deck Recipe into Booster Pack, for it's value you guarantee all the card that listed in the Deck Recipe. Maybe sell it for $20-$30 and I think that's reasonable to get the ready to play deck that guarantee you to get a specific card.
Ok one more but just because your comment was so idiotic it made me angry.
1.
on Hearthstone not being the first to implement this kind of thing : what i'm I supossed to do, go back in time and retroactively kill every card game with a pay2win lootbox style?. I suggest you look up Android Netrunner a game in which you get every single card in an expansion for a fair price and guess what evne though it's not the most successful game it's FUN. It's almost like having an equal playing field between players improves the expirience
2. I remember everyone complaining about adventures going away and even demanding 2 adventures a year instead of one which is basically what I'm proposing ( paying a faor price for a full set of cards)
3. It's not against the "spirit" of card games to expect them not to drain your wallet. The most successful card game in the history of humanity ( you know the one with spades, hearts, clubs and diamonds) gives you every single fucking card for what 5 bucks? I'm guess some people like you would be alright with the king of hearts being a legendary that you open once every 40 pacls or something idk.
People who say that buying full set of card for sth like 80$ would take away excitment from opening packs and all that stupidity seem to have missed that we used to have a thing called "adventures" where you did pretty much that, you paid a certain price for a full set of card (even though it was smaller pool of cards), and haven't seen a single person complain about "adventures take away excitment from opening packs" or something like that. So I think that would be fine.
P.S. HS is a money sink, admit it people. Kinda good money sink, but still a money sink. Ahit is pretty overpriced. ~1.3$ for a virtual pack of virtual cards that cost literally nothing to be made unlike physical cards? Nah man.
Lol it costs nothing to make virtual cards? Do you know how naive that statement is? Do you think the artists who create the art for the cards, or the designers who work the systems that put all of the technical borders and parts of the card together do their jobs for free with no payment needed to be paid out from Blizzard? Do you really think the voice actors for the cards that "cost literally nothing" also do their jobs for free? I think you better stop stop thinking with your "Brode & Blizzard are greedy b*st*rds!" cap because the details of what goes into the game, that you are clearly glossing over, is "Outstanding!"
You completely missed my point <snip> apparently. Yes I know all of that because that is obvious, what I am saying is that virtual cards consist of ones and zeroes, they cost nothing to be produced, not the card design itself, and it is not as difficult as you are trying to tell, tons of people are creating cool fun fan cards, being able to draw well or having a mic and a bit of imagination isn't something spectacular or imposible to do at all nowardays. Your turn
Blizzard deserve my money, they made the game that im playing. Nothing is for free, they work to run the game, so they need to be paid.
If you don't want to pay, then play Casual games.
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Honestly as a player who likes to have all the cards, the change to no duplicate legendary has actually significantly lowered my costs, so I have been quite happy. I think doubling up on class legendaries has been overkill, but on the whole I think they've been making positive changes. And the three full expansions as opposed to adventures scenario, I think I've been enjoying the new content enough to enjoy it.
I miss the days you paid for the game and got the extras for free. This dlc shit is stupid.
nah
HS releases less than half as many cards each year as many IRL card games - Wild won't have a card pool as large as MtG Standard until the December expansion is released next year. Unlike IRL games, HS gives away most of its content for free, as a reward for simply playing the game. Anyone who completes their dailies, and wins a TB every week will "earn" nearly 300 free packs each year. This site has a thread for players who wish to exploit the "Play a Friend" quest - it's currently on its fourth or fifth iteration, and each previous thread has featured 10K to 50K contributors. I have about thirty friends, and receive a couple PaF requests each week. Another 80 packs each year. The game gives every player a free treasure chest at the end of each season, free legendaries with each expansion - everyone is guaranteed 3 legendaries with K&C - and free loot from all of the new events which the game has featured ever since BB became the HS Overlord. Altogether, it isn't difficult to collect over 400 packs, over 2000 cards, each year without spending any money on the game. To top things off, only a third of the cards from any set ever see regular competitive play - collecting 40ish cards every four months isn't exactly an onerous task, given how generous the game is. The HS subreddit is a place where kids can safely role-play - they can pretend to be design geniuses, gaming geniuses and business geniuses who understand everything about the game much better than the fools who actually make it. An obvious corollary is that none of the pretension needs to be taken seriously. Nothing prevents Blizzard from releasing as many cards each year as regular CCGs, apart from their desire to keep the game F2P. Many of the devs formerly worked for WotC designing MtG, and the team wouldn't have the slightest difficulty releasing expansions twice as large as the small, F2P friendly, 135 card sets which we currently see.
If the OP prefers to ignore all of this, and pretend that Blizzard deserves to be "boycotted" for giving away most of their HS content for free, but not as much as he wants them to - it's a free country, and no one is going to stop him.
People who say that buying full set of card for sth like 80$ would take away excitment from opening packs and all that stupidity seem to have missed that we used to have a thing called "adventures" where you did pretty much that, you paid a certain price for a full set of card (even though it was smaller pool of cards), and haven't seen a single person complain about "adventures take away excitment from opening packs" or something like that. So I think that would be fine.
P.S. HS is a money sink, admit it people. Kinda good money sink, but still a money sink. Shit is pretty overpriced. ~1.3$ for a virtual pack of virtual cards that cost literally nothing to be made unlike physical cards? Nah man.
I already "Boycotting" the HS by playing F2P, NO MONEY FOR BLIZZARD kappa.
But seriously this is a F2P CCG/TCG, you need to open pack to progress like in any CCG/TCG. Why do you think many people watch "Opening Pack" video? Opening a pack in HS is exciting. If you claim that HS is predatory because of pack system, why not boycot all of the CCG/TCG model? Why blame HS when other do it first and get away with it? You may say you can get a specific card you want by paying other people more money to get it in Magic or YGO, but you can get the specific card by the Dust system in HS.
I say paying money up front to get all the card in CCG/TCG without opening pack goes against the spirit of this type of game. If you still want a way to spend money to get specific card, there is a way in CCG/TCG and that is by buying a Booster Pack. This way you buy a pack that contain a pre made deck and get all the cards in it. In HS they can sell the Deck Recipe into Booster Pack, for it's value you guarantee all the card that listed in the Deck Recipe. Maybe sell it for $20-$30 and I think that's reasonable to get the ready to play deck that guarantee you to get a specific card.