Unleash the Hounds has been reworked and now reads: “(4) For each enemy minion, summon a 1/1 Hound with Charge”.
The old version of Unleash the Hounds was allowing for Hunters to win in a single turn, starting with no minions on the board. The new version adds some fun, new card combos to Hunters and helps with their ability to AoE.
So, thoughts about the card change? Will you use the new version of the card in your deck, or can you think of possible combos with it that make it a good card to use?
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Pretty costly though - 4 mana? That doesn't let you combo much early to mid game, aside from hoping for the (nerfed) Buzzard or Cult Master to survive, and late game, the card won't do much in terms of board presence. What are you going to do, slam a bunch of 1/1's into a late game board? Yeah, fine, you can Timber Wolf and Hyena, but meh. Sea Giants wouldn't be bad, you can chunk his cost down a bit if you're really up against the ropes.
In all honesty, I'm just glad Hunters have some draw power now, even if it's later game. They have all the tools to do well, weapons, strong spells, strong minions, counterplay, they just need a little love in the card draw department.
The new UTH is so vastly different that it'll require some playtesting to really figure out what to do with it. At worst it's a 4-mana Arcane Explosion, but instead of doing 1 damage to every minion you can choose to focus the damage, except you also can't hit stealthed minions or bypass taunt. The obvious combos are with Starving Buzzard, Timber Wolf, and Scavenging Hyena. The fact that it costs 4 mana and requires a lot of enemy minions for the best value makes me really doubt how good it could be. Against decks with a lot of spells or big minions it would be terrible. Against a lot of weenies it might work.
Yeah, it feels situational, 1/1's are really nothing and the opponent needs to have a couple minions out as well, which is why I feel the cost is pretty high for the effect. Barring a small amount of decks, I'm sure the opponent will capitalize on the board with more minions if given the chance. Hunters don't exactly have board-clearing bombs like some other classes so even the 1/1's won't often hit its potential, but again, it's a good start.
The only remotely comparable card to the new UTH at the moment is Force of Nature, I have a decent amount of experience with it and it could have a home in some hunter decks.
Yeah I compared it to Force of Nature as well, on MMO-C. I'm okay with a poor man's FOrce of Nature, with far better combo posiblities then the original.
I'm guessing that if they made it 3 mana or less it would become mandatory again, which they are obviously trying to avoid.
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Not that I personally think MC was that much of an issue I do understand the justification considering it is a removal and creature play it doesn't seem like 10 man is so out of line. As far as hunters being weak in constructed, I think they're just fine. Sure they're not as dominant as certain decks right now but UTH decks were pretty damn weak overall so killing that does nothing really to the better hunter decks.
Yea 3 mana would be great i find hunters pretty weak in constructed... Now without otk even worse i suppose. But in arena they are extremly good:) MC nerf is harsh -_-"
I disagree with your statement about hunters being extremely good in arena. In fact, they're my worst arena class (69%); the same applies to the majority of streamers. One just can't rely on building a beast-centered deck and without these synergies hunters are mediocre.
Well I'm seeing this as being a Turn 6 card draw combo with my (now golden) buzzards, not much else. Perhaps useful for clearing up after explosive traps pop a bunch of 3-HP minions to 1 (yes I'm looking at you Gul'dan).
I am not convinced that you will be able to regularly fully clear a board with this card, as it will be rather effectively blocked by a taunter (pumping them with a Timberwolf requires you to commit another weak card to the board, and you still need 3 hounds to kill a Taz-Dingo).
Also, 1 HP minions won't live at turn 4+, so if you go directly for the face, it will be a one-shot deal.
Synergy is good with the Buzzard (Turn 6), hyena (Turn 6), festering ghoul (Turn 7), cult master (Turn 8). Can we play those cards the turn before and try to keep them alive? i doubt it if we assume a bunch of enemy minions on the board. I suspect these cards may well telegraph our intentions, too...
I'll try it out when the patch drops, but I'm thinking it's rather lackluster for the stated purpose of adding fun or improving hunter aoe.
Might as well drop it to 2~3 mana and make it a staple, there is nothing wrong with providing a class with a card good enough that it can be used in most of their decks as a general way to strengthen the class and keep it up to speed.
Paladins have their Truesilver, Warriors have their Fiery War Axe, Mages have their Fireball, Warlocks with their Soulfire, Shamans with Hex, Hunters wouldn't mind a little something necessary.
If they drop the cost to 3 that would be more flexible. I could see it being immensely troll if Knife Juggler interacted with it. Or if you somehow get an enemy with loads of minions and you just happen to have a raid leader on the board. It's definitely different from what it was...But Blizzard's thought that changing "giving beasts +1 and charge" equates to "spawn 1/1s with charge" feels a bit harsh to me. Oh well what do I know?
This change makes UTH pretty much useless, you have to wait on your opponent's board control to take off in order for this card to be cost effective, and even then, the 1/1 charge beasts would be useless at that point (assuming its mid/late game). Hunters already have a snake trap that gives them 3 1/1 snakes at their disposal, as soon as the secret comes into effect. Imo, after this patch, snake trap will prob see more light in terms of gameplay. So sad that hunters got nerfed hard.
The change only appears useless, then some pro is going to make it OP in a tournament and everyone will flock to it as THE build for Hunters...Just wait.
People will likely flock to it as THE BUILD for hunters.
But hunters still won't be any better overall than they currently are. The new UtH does not change hunter gameplay in any significant way. Beasts are still too weak, and their synergies still rely on these weak beasts living more than one turn (which doesn't happen even with sturdier non-beast creatures). Other classes did not get changed in any meaningful way.
The current meta, I predict, will stay exactly the same.
Hunters could build decks that don't center as heavily around early game Beasts or even strict Beast syergy. I mean Animal Companion, Savanna Highmane and Houndmaster could suffice as class specific minion cards followed up with strong neutrals that compliment the midgame. Sprinkle in control cards for early/mid game then round it off with 1 or 2 extreme late game cards like a King Krush. All of a sudden you aren't relying simply on class based minion synergy it is there in some regards but as more of an addition to a solid deck, not the crux of one.
Highmane is alright, but it doesn't compare to temple enforcers or fire elementals as a 6-drop. Exploding into two weak minions that can be wiped out by a leper gnome and his twin, diseased brother doesn't impress me much, but it's far from a bad card.
The hunter deck I was working on pre-nerf was more or less a "beast-less" hunter that focused on traps/weapons/removal, and no beast synergy whatsoever. I kept animal companions because, hey, MISHAAAAA! :D And they're all good, but I leaned - like every other deck (which is the sad part I /sigh about) - on Shattered Sun Clerics, Defenders of Argus and the common cards you see in every other deck.
It worked as well as anything does as a semi-control / favorable trade deck does, and that didn't change with the patch, so my deck is functionally the same still. Don't see it harming trap-heavy control decks, either.
That's mostly my problem. I don't see any feasible niche for the new UtH that isn't done better already by universal cards in the current meta of "Kill opponents minion, play my own. Opponent kills my minion, plays their own. Rinse, repeat, someone wins."
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Per the front page:
So, thoughts about the card change? Will you use the new version of the card in your deck, or can you think of possible combos with it that make it a good card to use?
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
Wasn't hunter weak enough as it was? -.- sigh...
Second thought: Cult Master
Pretty costly though - 4 mana? That doesn't let you combo much early to mid game, aside from hoping for the (nerfed) Buzzard or Cult Master to survive, and late game, the card won't do much in terms of board presence. What are you going to do, slam a bunch of 1/1's into a late game board? Yeah, fine, you can Timber Wolf and Hyena, but meh. Sea Giants wouldn't be bad, you can chunk his cost down a bit if you're really up against the ropes.
In all honesty, I'm just glad Hunters have some draw power now, even if it's later game. They have all the tools to do well, weapons, strong spells, strong minions, counterplay, they just need a little love in the card draw department.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Starving buzzard, hyena, leeroy, cult master were my first thought about this change. You can combo it with a lot of card.
I agree w/ aishi, 4 mana is too high
atleast they removed unleash the hounds otk garbage, so annoying to play against
The new UTH is so vastly different that it'll require some playtesting to really figure out what to do with it. At worst it's a 4-mana Arcane Explosion, but instead of doing 1 damage to every minion you can choose to focus the damage, except you also can't hit stealthed minions or bypass taunt. The obvious combos are with Starving Buzzard, Timber Wolf, and Scavenging Hyena. The fact that it costs 4 mana and requires a lot of enemy minions for the best value makes me really doubt how good it could be. Against decks with a lot of spells or big minions it would be terrible. Against a lot of weenies it might work.
Yeah, it feels situational, 1/1's are really nothing and the opponent needs to have a couple minions out as well, which is why I feel the cost is pretty high for the effect. Barring a small amount of decks, I'm sure the opponent will capitalize on the board with more minions if given the chance. Hunters don't exactly have board-clearing bombs like some other classes so even the 1/1's won't often hit its potential, but again, it's a good start.
The only remotely comparable card to the new UTH at the moment is Force of Nature, I have a decent amount of experience with it and it could have a home in some hunter decks.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I'll mess around with it but right now I don't know if it will fit my hunter deck as it revolves around keeping my opponents board clear.
Yeah I compared it to Force of Nature as well, on MMO-C. I'm okay with a poor man's FOrce of Nature, with far better combo posiblities then the original.
I'm guessing that if they made it 3 mana or less it would become mandatory again, which they are obviously trying to avoid.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
Not that I personally think MC was that much of an issue I do understand the justification considering it is a removal and creature play it doesn't seem like 10 man is so out of line. As far as hunters being weak in constructed, I think they're just fine. Sure they're not as dominant as certain decks right now but UTH decks were pretty damn weak overall so killing that does nothing really to the better hunter decks.
I disagree with your statement about hunters being extremely good in arena. In fact, they're my worst arena class (69%); the same applies to the majority of streamers. One just can't rely on building a beast-centered deck and without these synergies hunters are mediocre.
I love the change, now my non otk hunter decks are no longer frowned upon because of the ability otk has.
Well I'm seeing this as being a Turn 6 card draw combo with my (now golden) buzzards, not much else. Perhaps useful for clearing up after explosive traps pop a bunch of 3-HP minions to 1 (yes I'm looking at you Gul'dan).
I am not convinced that you will be able to regularly fully clear a board with this card, as it will be rather effectively blocked by a taunter (pumping them with a Timberwolf requires you to commit another weak card to the board, and you still need 3 hounds to kill a Taz-Dingo).
Also, 1 HP minions won't live at turn 4+, so if you go directly for the face, it will be a one-shot deal.
Synergy is good with the Buzzard (Turn 6), hyena (Turn 6), festering ghoul (Turn 7), cult master (Turn 8). Can we play those cards the turn before and try to keep them alive? i doubt it if we assume a bunch of enemy minions on the board. I suspect these cards may well telegraph our intentions, too...
I'll try it out when the patch drops, but I'm thinking it's rather lackluster for the stated purpose of adding fun or improving hunter aoe.
Might as well drop it to 2~3 mana and make it a staple, there is nothing wrong with providing a class with a card good enough that it can be used in most of their decks as a general way to strengthen the class and keep it up to speed.
Paladins have their Truesilver, Warriors have their Fiery War Axe, Mages have their Fireball, Warlocks with their Soulfire, Shamans with Hex, Hunters wouldn't mind a little something necessary.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
If they drop the cost to 3 that would be more flexible. I could see it being immensely troll if Knife Juggler interacted with it. Or if you somehow get an enemy with loads of minions and you just happen to have a raid leader on the board. It's definitely different from what it was...But Blizzard's thought that changing "giving beasts +1 and charge" equates to "spawn 1/1s with charge" feels a bit harsh to me. Oh well what do I know?
This change makes UTH pretty much useless, you have to wait on your opponent's board control to take off in order for this card to be cost effective, and even then, the 1/1 charge beasts would be useless at that point (assuming its mid/late game). Hunters already have a snake trap that gives them 3 1/1 snakes at their disposal, as soon as the secret comes into effect. Imo, after this patch, snake trap will prob see more light in terms of gameplay. So sad that hunters got nerfed hard.
The change only appears useless, then some pro is going to make it OP in a tournament and everyone will flock to it as THE build for Hunters...Just wait.
People will likely flock to it as THE BUILD for hunters.
But hunters still won't be any better overall than they currently are. The new UtH does not change hunter gameplay in any significant way. Beasts are still too weak, and their synergies still rely on these weak beasts living more than one turn (which doesn't happen even with sturdier non-beast creatures). Other classes did not get changed in any meaningful way.
The current meta, I predict, will stay exactly the same.
Hunters could build decks that don't center as heavily around early game Beasts or even strict Beast syergy. I mean Animal Companion, Savanna Highmane and Houndmaster could suffice as class specific minion cards followed up with strong neutrals that compliment the midgame. Sprinkle in control cards for early/mid game then round it off with 1 or 2 extreme late game cards like a King Krush. All of a sudden you aren't relying simply on class based minion synergy it is there in some regards but as more of an addition to a solid deck, not the crux of one.
Highmane is alright, but it doesn't compare to temple enforcers or fire elementals as a 6-drop. Exploding into two weak minions that can be wiped out by a leper gnome and his twin, diseased brother doesn't impress me much, but it's far from a bad card.
The hunter deck I was working on pre-nerf was more or less a "beast-less" hunter that focused on traps/weapons/removal, and no beast synergy whatsoever. I kept animal companions because, hey, MISHAAAAA! :D And they're all good, but I leaned - like every other deck (which is the sad part I /sigh about) - on Shattered Sun Clerics, Defenders of Argus and the common cards you see in every other deck.
It worked as well as anything does as a semi-control / favorable trade deck does, and that didn't change with the patch, so my deck is functionally the same still. Don't see it harming trap-heavy control decks, either.
That's mostly my problem. I don't see any feasible niche for the new UtH that isn't done better already by universal cards in the current meta of "Kill opponents minion, play my own. Opponent kills my minion, plays their own. Rinse, repeat, someone wins."