Hearthpwn

As I always look for why a certain card is printed, to that end, whom is to be served, my analysis will always differ from yours and for my part from the average pwn-commentator.

And yes you can always look to ways to circumvent what is brought to the table. And if you figure that out you can proudly (disdain?) show that you know how and that others who don't are just whining nitwits. So why should you make an in depth study just to counter a card you don't want to use, while others can sit back enjoying its benefits? 

That is unfair.

By the way, even if you know all the cards in the discover pool, the chance that you get beaten is higher than your smart counter play. The reason is simple. Zephrys was made to exel in simple straight forward aggressive archetypes. Not suppose to be health food, but an extra topping on a burger. And Hearthstone serves unfortunately a fastfood audience.

Quote from Daulphas >>

Quote from Gorbovskiy >>

Did angry kids just found a new Barnes to blame?

 So this!!! I think this comment alone needs to be posted on all Zephrys threads.

 But what about those of us who know that Barnes (and res preist in general is BS) but like Zephrys?

So, no, not 'this'.

Quote from Hooghout >>

So in this little thread the fanboy-pundits and the ordinary ones bind together once again as Hearthstone Mandarins. Doing the bidding of their intellectual masters riding the bandwagon as fellow travellers defending skill-contemptious card design.

Let me look over the weeds.

Did angry kids just found a new Barnes to blame?

Typical comment of an fanboy-commoner. No arguments, not even bad ones. These are the Blizzards foot soldiers. Cannon feed. Not much respect.

That is exactly what I say about the card that I recently lost to.

Same as the above. The stupidity flows like a festering wound.

If you outplayed your opponent for several turns, there is no single one card that will just hand them the win. If a single Classic/Basic Set card is enough to fully turn the game you say you were outplaying your opponent in, then you overestimated your position

Ah yes, here we have true HS-pundit comment. Always getting the likes he's looking for. Outplaying your opponent for several turns? There's hardly such thing as outplaying your opponent in HS. For that the game is too aggressive, the skill floor too low. Not to speak of to steep a RPS, combined withan abundance of randomness. But he good try. You got your like!

It doesn't undermine anything. It simply adds a very annoying aspect to the game. It forces the player to contemplate at all times, if the opponent plays the card, what is the way in which it will fuck you up the hardest, out of every card in the Classic and Basic Sets.

Same speaker. Same pundit. A joy to read bandwagon commentators. Zephrys doesn't force anything. It is designed as a extremely political card that benefits aggressive decks more than the more thoughtful, slower gameplay. It is designed to attract players looking for fast and easy winfix strategy. In danger of losing the board? Play Zeph. wisely for the right tempo swing.

Losing to this card is like losing against junior, while you are the more experienced senior. One time, no problem, but as a systemic disease it's target audience oriented. It is there to curb winning based on skill.

 

 1). Your condescending tone is disgusting.  GTFO with that.

2). Zephrys is for aggro decks?  REALLY?  That's just plain WRONG.  What successful aggro highlander deck has there ever been??  None.  And seeing why is SO easy.  Aggro decks rely on the consistency of getting on the board early and maintaining control of the board.  Highlander decks are the OPPOSITE of consistent.  Apart from that, there are never 30 aggro viable cards available to a class at any one time.  The notion that Zephrys is meant for aggro is LAUGHABLE.

3).  Zephrys does what?  It REACTS to the current board state.  By definition, it is a REACTIVE card and, as such, is best suited to a deck that has that play style...aka control (and some midrange) decks, primarily. 

Quote from Psy_Kik >>

Quote from Daulphas >>

Quote from Gorbovskiy >>

Did angry kids just found a new Barnes to blame?

 So this!!! I think this comment alone needs to be posted on all Zephrys threads.

 But what about those of us who know that Barnes (and res preist in general is BS) but like Zephrys?

 

So, no, not 'this'.

 As I stated in a previous reply:

Zephrys has become the next card to recieve direct contention due to the effects the card produces, in a direct relation to how the community felt about Barnes. There are a large number of people who are 'angry' with the card.
This comes quickly with and after the Barnes nerf which lends to the statement that the new card to reach the forefront of the salt threads seems to be Zephrys.
And this onslaught of threads against Zephrys is a direct reflection that no matter the state of Hearthstone there will always be someone and/or something to complain about.

So rather than type this out originally (which I see now would have been the better course of action) I made a very simple comment to show that I agree with the concept. My apologies for not posting in an elaborate fashion before.

Don't you think you are  overreacting to the card, is not like hearthstone ever had cards that "wins you the game" when you play them,  and even in some cases your perfect card isn't enough, i play Zephyr and play against it a lot. and, it's consisntent, but not unbeatable. 

The card rewards you knowledge of the classic and basic set and your way to make him give you the card you need. For that you need a plan, unless you are in top deck mode and in that case maybe even him is just a delay to your doom. 

Just relax, by any mean this is comparable to the year of the mammoth with in my opinion had the most toxic card sets in hearthstone history.

Quote from Bee >>

Quote from Jennifer >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

So in this little thread the fanboy-pundits and the ordinary ones bind together once again as Hearthstone Mandarins. Doing the bidding of their intellectual masters riding the bandwagon as fellow travellers defending skill-contemptious card design.

Let me look over the weeds.

Did angry kids just found a new Barnes to blame?

Typical comment of an fanboy-commoner. No arguments, not even bad ones. These are the Blizzards foot soldiers. Cannon feed. Not much respect.

That is exactly what I say about the card that I recently lost to.

Same as the above. The stupidity flows like a festering wound.

If you outplayed your opponent for several turns, there is no single one card that will just hand them the win. If a single Classic/Basic Set card is enough to fully turn the game you say you were outplaying your opponent in, then you overestimated your position

Ah yes, here we have true HS-pundit comment. Always getting the likes he's looking for. Outplaying your opponent for several turns? There's hardly such thing as outplaying your opponent in HS. For that the game is too aggressive, the skill floor too low. Not to speak of to steep a RPS, combined withan abundance of randomness. But he good try. You got your like!

It doesn't undermine anything. It simply adds a very annoying aspect to the game. It forces the player to contemplate at all times, if the opponent plays the card, what is the way in which it will fuck you up the hardest, out of every card in the Classic and Basic Sets.

Same speaker. Same pundit. A joy to read bandwagon commentators. Zephrys doesn't force anything. It is designed as a extremely political card that benefits aggressive decks more than the more thoughtful, slower gameplay. It is designed to attract players looking for fast and easy winfix strategy. In danger of losing the board? Play Zeph. wisely for the right tempo swing.

Losing to this card is like losing against junior, while you are the more experienced senior. One time, no problem, but as a systemic disease it's target audience oriented. It is there to curb winning based on skill.

 

 You've got it all pretty wrong, but I guess the frustration of losing to opponents who play Zephrys has gotten to you. High-variance RNG effects are what removes the skill aspect of the game (Exhibit A: Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron). Zephrys has no RNG aspects, his value depends entirely on the players ability to figure out how to get the best result form playing him.

 And you think it’s hard to figure out that he’ll give you a nether at 10 mana or flamestrike at 9. Anyone who's been playing a little should know the choices he’ll offer depending on the situations.

Even if you’re clueless about the game he’ll still offer you the best choices in your situation, he’s probably the most broken card ever printed.

And yet these forums are littered with posts from disgruntled idiots who can't figure out what to do with it demanding dust refunds.

I like Zephrys but it wouldve been nice if they included another neutral demon that shuffled three 2/2 rushes i to both players deck or something

Highlander quest control shaman is insanely fun if you havent tried it

Quote from MandelbrotorblednaM >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

So in this little thread the fanboy-pundits and the ordinary ones bind together once again as Hearthstone Mandarins. Doing the bidding of their intellectual masters riding the bandwagon as fellow travellers defending skill-contemptious card design.

Let me look over the weeds.

Did angry kids just found a new Barnes to blame?

Typical comment of an fanboy-commoner. No arguments, not even bad ones. These are the Blizzards foot soldiers. Cannon feed. Not much respect.

That is exactly what I say about the card that I recently lost to.

Same as the above. The stupidity flows like a festering wound.

If you outplayed your opponent for several turns, there is no single one card that will just hand them the win. If a single Classic/Basic Set card is enough to fully turn the game you say you were outplaying your opponent in, then you overestimated your position

Ah yes, here we have true HS-pundit comment. Always getting the likes he's looking for. Outplaying your opponent for several turns? There's hardly such thing as outplaying your opponent in HS. For that the game is too aggressive, the skill floor too low. Not to speak of to steep a RPS, combined withan abundance of randomness. But he good try. You got your like!

It doesn't undermine anything. It simply adds a very annoying aspect to the game. It forces the player to contemplate at all times, if the opponent plays the card, what is the way in which it will fuck you up the hardest, out of every card in the Classic and Basic Sets.

Same speaker. Same pundit. A joy to read bandwagon commentators. Zephrys doesn't force anything. It is designed as a extremely political card that benefits aggressive decks more than the more thoughtful, slower gameplay. It is designed to attract players looking for fast and easy winfix strategy. In danger of losing the board? Play Zeph. wisely for the right tempo swing.

Losing to this card is like losing against junior, while you are the more experienced senior. One time, no problem, but as a systemic disease it's target audience oriented. It is there to curb winning based on skill.

 

 1). Your condescending tone is disgusting.  GTFO with that.

2). Zephrys is for aggro decks?  REALLY?  That's just plain WRONG.  What successful aggro highlander deck has there ever been??  None.  And seeing why is SO easy.  Aggro decks rely on the consistency of getting on the board early and maintaining control of the board.  Highlander decks are the OPPOSITE of consistent.  Apart from that, there are never 30 aggro viable cards available to a class at any one time.  The notion that Zephrys is meant for aggro is LAUGHABLE.

3).  Zephrys does what?  It REACTS to the current board state.  By definition, it is a REACTIVE card and, as such, is best suited to a deck that has that play style...aka control (and some midrange) decks, primarily. 

 Highlander aggro decks in wild are perfectly viable. He's even used in non-highlander aggro decks in standard, that's just how good he is.

''Aggro decks rely on the consistency of getting on the board early and maintaining control of the board''

That's exactly why Zephrys is just as good in aggro decks. Allowing you to polymorph a huge taunt, aoe in aggro mirrors or pulling off bloodlust.

He's even good in combo decks filled with duplicates who want to draw their entire deck with auctioneer, Nomi priest and Hakkar druid in wild for example.

My point is; I don't think it's fair to say he's better in control decks because he really isn't. He's more commonly used in control decks because it's much more easier to make a good control highlander deck than aggro. If they removed his restriction, you can mark my word every single aggro deck would run him until HS gets discontinued.

To all:

Zephrys is definitely printed to help those who should've lost due to boardstate to still win the game. If aggro/aggressive decks aren't able to kill you in 6 turns, they begin having a hard time (especially against controldecks). To conclude: it benefits these archetypes, therefore a skill-free gameplay.

For the first time in whole gamehistory the AI actually helps you to win a game. Unheard-of. What does it say? Blizzard is telling you: you are too stupid to win a game? Well we'll help you. We hope you'll keep playing and ofcourse buy a lot of packs.

Skill defying, fanboy oriented card design. Marketing is everywhere.

Quote from Hooghout >>

To all:

Zephrys is definitely printed to help those who should've lost due to boardstate to still win the game. If aggro/aggressive decks aren't able to kill you in 6 turns, they begin having a hard time (especially against controldecks). To conclude: it benefits these archetypes, therefore a skill-free gameplay.

For the first time in whole gamehistory the AI actually helps you to win a game. Unheard-of. What does it say? Blizzard is telling you: you are too stupid to win a game? Well we'll help you. We hope you'll keep playing and ofcourse buy a lot of packs.

Skill defying, fanboy oriented card design. Marketing is everywhere.

 

 Nice, your argument is the same in every case, nice way to discuss

Quote from JoshoPrime >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

To all:

Zephrys is definitely printed to help those who should've lost due to boardstate to still win the game. If aggro/aggressive decks aren't able to kill you in 6 turns, they begin having a hard time (especially against controldecks). To conclude: it benefits these archetypes, therefore a skill-free gameplay.

For the first time in whole gamehistory the AI actually helps you to win a game. Unheard-of. What does it say? Blizzard is telling you: you are too stupid to win a game? Well we'll help you. We hope you'll keep playing and ofcourse buy a lot of packs.

Skill defying, fanboy oriented card design. Marketing is everywhere.

 

 Nice, your argument is the same in every case, nice way to discuss

 It's called consistency as there is really nothing more to say about this card. People chit chat as much as they want, but in the end....

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Bee >>

 Highlander aggro decks in wild are perfectly viable. He's even used in non-highlander aggro decks in standard, that's just how good he is.

''Aggro decks rely on the consistency of getting on the board early and maintaining control of the board''

That's exactly why Zephrys is just as good in aggro decks. Allowing you to polymorph a huge taunt, aoe in aggro mirrors or pulling off bloodlust.

 

How exactly does a non-highlander Aggro deck manage to draw all it's duplicates early enough in the game to use Zephrys?

Genuinely curious, because that sounds absurd. The more duplicates the deck includes the smaller and smaller the probabilities that Zephrys can activate become. If you have a deck of 14 duplicates and 2 unique cards, that requires the Aggro player to somehow draw 15 cards (Zephrys being the 15ths) before the effect can take place. Aggro decks aren't particularly good at drawing outside of turn start, meaning that is generally by turn 12 or later in the game.

By this point in the game, assuming they were lucky enough to draw exactly a copy of each duplicate in these turns, it is not that likely you are in a bad position, you survived 12 or more turns against the Aggro deck.

Unless you are talking about Standard Highlander Aggro decks that can consistently activate Zephrys because they are Highlander, the likelihood of Zephrys activating is always really slim in Aggro, it requires the opponent to be lucky enough to draw all his duplicates really early.

 Tip the scale paladin and aggro rogue with Myra's.

I like Zephrys

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Bee >>

 Tip the scale paladin and aggro rogue with Myra's.

 Even those don't guarantee you fulfill the condition, considering, for example, that for the Rogue to work, you need to draw Myra and Zephrys, or at most, have Zephrys be in the cards you draw from Myra, rather than on the good chunk of the deck that is going away.

I have a hard time believing those rare circumstances is what conveys the notion that Zephrys is a great Aggro card, where Zephrys is supposedly best suited. It's just not really consistent to warrant that kind of notion.

When Reno first came out, I tried to get the best possible combination of duplicates I could sustain in Freeze Mage to insert Reno in the deck. I eventually just removed it from the proper deck, and created a secondary deck which was Freeze Mage but fully Highlander. Because the deck simply didn't activate Reno consistently enough to make it worth using it with duplicates. And I assume you know, Freeze Mage is not exactly the kind of deck that lacks card draw, nor does it rely on one or two cards to ensure the activation in the whole deck, which is the cases you are referring.

 I never said it will always fulfill the condition.

I'm just saying that some type of aggro decks run him because of how insane he is, even though sometimes they won't be able to activate him.

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Bee >>

 I never said it will always fulfill the condition.

I'm just saying that some type of aggro decks run him because of how insane he is, even though sometimes they won't be able to activate him.

 I see, but they aren't particularly hoping to rely on him. It wouldn't be very logical to do so given how unreliable it is on those decks... More like an including in the hopes that if things go wrong, and somehow they managed to fulfill the activation requirement, it will hand them the win.

It's not too different from once in a while when I saw something like Deathwings in fast decks, as a last resort, rarely ever used.

 Deathwing sounds fun actually. I may try that sometime for the luls

His best win rate is actually in highlander decks ? Who would have thought.

And did you ever consider the fact that Zephrys is often played in murloc paladin even if he doesn't activate ?

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

The card is too powerful. It allows classes to access cards that were deliberately not made available to them, due to... you know... balance concerns.

It's just stupid to lose to this card when you have otherwise outplayed your opponent for several turns. Most hated card* for me right now.

* Honorable mention to MC Tech.

 I couldn't agree more with this it's very frustrating to lose to highlander hunter's over and over again when you've already countered their entire deck

Quote from TMRobinson >>

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

The card is too powerful. It allows classes to access cards that were deliberately not made available to them, due to... you know... balance concerns.

It's just stupid to lose to this card when you have otherwise outplayed your opponent for several turns. Most hated card* for me right now.

* Honorable mention to MC Tech.

 I couldn't agree more with this it's very frustrating to lose to highlander hunter's over and over again when you've already countered their entire deck

 If you lost, you obviously did not counter their entire deck

• Statistics can be deceiving if read wrongly. Have you thought that the reason could be that people just play Zephrys when they are in a bad situation? I mean, in Murlock Paladin your main plan is to beat your opponent with the 7 murlock in turn 5, not to play Zephrys. Normally, when you play it is that your Murlocks have been eliminated so if he can takes some wins out of there, it already does his job.