I am a relatively new player. I joined in June. I have little experience with Blizzard adjusting card values, powers, etc.
But it seems clear to the community that a few things resulting from MSOG require 'fixing.' Pirate Warrior being the most obvious example.
For those of you who have been around longer than me, can you tell me why it seems to take so long for cards to be tweaked. I play Clash Royale too, and Supercell modifies cards for game balance regularly. Yet from what I'm reading on this website it seems that it'll be months before anything changes in Hearthstone.
It takes so long because often people have no idea what they're talking about and they're just saying it's op because they lost against it a few times.
Don't have much experience on other virtual card games. But yes, HS adjustments seem to take an eternity and are extremely uncommon.
Played another Blizzard game a lot, Heroes of the Storm, before "returning" to HS, and teams seem to be from a completely different planet. HotS team is open, has an excellent PR with playerbase, releases patches (mostly balance) every two weeks, etc... HS team seems to live in an underground vault, unreachable from those on outside, and totally unaware of the real world. How can two teams on same company be so different from one another? When an OP hero is released on HotS, in a couple of weeks we start seeing some tune downs. HS is way WAY more popular, generates much more revenue, and yet seems unable to react to broken stuff out there in reasonable time, like the others do. Even Overwatch (never played) seems to have much more balance updates.
"But it's just a single character, easy, a card can interact with tons of others!" - WRONG: We are talking about a character, with multiple talent options, that interacts with 50+ other characters in near a dozen of different maps. Maybe more complex.
Despite getting tired of Heroes, I still raise my hat to it's team.
Because it sucks for the players who spend a lot of time / money on making those decks.
Imagine if Blizzard would nerf Small-Time Buccaneer right now. This would make Pirate decks mediocre, and mediocre generally means that you can't play it. You're getting your 200 dust back for the 2 buccaneers, but what about the 10 dollar you spend to make Southsea Captain, Patches the Pirate, Bloodsail Cultist etc which are now suddenly useless as well?
I had the same thing happen to me. I started playing in 2013 when control Hunter was really good. I did not have any cards at all, so i dusted everything i got to craft stuff for control Hunter. Then Starving Buzzard got nerfed (read: Made complete garbage) and control Hunter was suddenly no longer worth playing. So i suddenly only had cards that were kinda useless...
If we ignore the preemptive evergreen nerfs and focus only on meta-driven nerfs, the situation has to become far more dire than what is currently being seen. They nerfed Undertaker because it was just crazy out of control and literally half the ladder was that deck. They nerfed 5 mana Sylvanas Windrunner because it had become an admission fee to play ladder - in every deck. Tinkmaster Overspark fit in the same boat - cheap removal with a body.
The other type of nerf is because the card lends itself to a non-interactive play style. Warsong Commander and Gadgetzan Auctioneer were nerfed for this reason. I don't believe any major deck currently fits this category, pirates included.
"But it's just a single character, easy, a card can interact with tons of others!" - WRONG: We are talking about a character, with multiple talent options, that interacts with 50+ other characters in near a dozen of different maps. Maybe more complex.
That's the entire reason why it's actually easier to balance heroes in HoS than cards in Hearthstone, and why you should not compare the 2.
Hero is overpowered in HoS? > shave off 5% of his max health and tune down one talent that's too strong > Hero is now perfectly fine
Leper Gnome is one of the most toxic cards and used in every single aggro deck? > remove 1 attack > Card was never seen or heard from again
I don't believe they will nerf anything whatever people are screaming for since the rotation for the new standard mode will come in 3 to 4 months tops. I just hope it will be a better diversity than what it is currently now. Playing only T6 rushers or 30 minutes mirror matches isn't fun at all, whatever side of the table you are... Also a tweak to the ladder system would also be welcome at the same time!
They would much rather level out the meta by printing new cards against the dominant deck over nerfing. Prime example is mech mage, when it was first released it was viewed as overpowered, probably more so than pirate warrior.
It had a powerful start with turn one Cogmaster into turn two Mechwarper/Snowchugger, into turn three Piloted Shredder/Spider Tank into turn four Goblin Blastmage/Piloted Shredder. The powerful early pressure was very hard to recover from, especially with carsds like Frostbolt and Flamecannon hold down your board. And if you couldn't do it by turn 7 when Dr. Boom entered the field GG. On top of all that, Mage has very high burst potential with Fireball and Frostbolt, so they usually only had to get you under 15 before they just killed you flat out.
Yet, by the time League of explorers was released, Mech Mage was struggling to put up a fight in just about any matchup. It was still the exact same deck, no nerfs were ever made. Simply because new cards were printed, and decks found better ways to battle Mech Mage.
Yet, by the time League of explorers was released, Mech Mage was struggling to put up a fight in just about any matchup. It was still the exact same deck, no nerfs were ever made. Simply because new cards were printed, and decks found better ways to battle Mech Mage.
This seems kind of troublesome as well tho... This pretty much means that overpowered decks are being nerfed because other decks get buffed so they become of the same level. The result is a game where every deck is overpowered.
Compare it to the balancing of League for example: What if Riot would never nerf the best champion, and only buff the ones that are worse. You'll eventually have a game where every champion will kill every other champion twice as fast as they used to, which leaves less room for counter play.
Bytheway, why did you have to remind me of the horror which was Mech Mage... : (
Yet, by the time League of explorers was released, Mech Mage was struggling to put up a fight in just about any matchup. It was still the exact same deck, no nerfs were ever made. Simply because new cards were printed, and decks found better ways to battle Mech Mage.
This seems kind of troublesome as well tho... This pretty much means that overpowered decks are being nerfed because other decks get buffed so they become of the same level. The result is a game where every deck is overpowered.
Compare it to the balancing of League for example: What if Riot would never nerf the best champion, and only buff the ones that are worse. You'll eventually have a game where every champion will kill every other champion twice as fast as they used to, which leaves less room for counter play.
Bytheway, why did you have to remind me of the horror which was Mech Mage... : (
Clash Royale is a much simpler, smaller, newer game. It's unfair to compare it to HS and the incredible amount of implications of nerfing. Cards only get nerfed to improve design space or remove horribly oppressive decks (two things that all of the cards that people are calling for Blizz to nerf do not do)
Their play testers are Blizzard's own employees who have absolutely no clue how the game is really played. They're the ones who really enjoyed playing with Purify and thought the card was a great idea. The argument against having real testers including professionals, streamers, and worthy opponents is that they don't want to spoil the cards in advance. And so the cycle continues. The system is broken. And I truly feel sorry for the OP and all the other newer players that are having to suffer in the current over-the-top toxic meta.
Their fault for abusing a broken deck. That should not hinder a constant balance on the metagame. But unfortunately HS have an incompetent dev team.
If _______ is the best deck then people should play it, that's not their fault, that's what they were told and encouraged to do. That's what you do if you want to win.
How often are cards banned in mtg? Not often, same reason. And Nerfing is banning except the card doesn't even exist in wild. Standard exists shit rotates now, there isn't ever a reason to fiddle with non-classic cards anymore. (Mind you I could say they should fiddle with classic by buffing some things but that's a different question.)
Their play testers are Blizzard's own employees who have absolutely no clue how the game is really played. They're the ones who really enjoyed playing with Purify and thought the card was a great idea.
Purify is a great idea, it's just obviously not a competitive card. Most cards are going to be for arena and/or for funzies not competitive.
Their fault for abusing a broken deck. That should not hinder a constant balance on the metagame. But unfortunately HS have an incompetent dev team.
If _______ is the best deck then people should play it, that's not their fault, that's what they were told and encouraged to do. That's what you do if you want to win.
How often are cards banned in mtg? Not often, same reason. And Nerfing is banning except the card doesn't even exist in wild. Standard exists shit rotates now, there isn't ever a reason to fiddle with non-classic cards anymore. (Mind you I could say they should fiddle with classic by buffing some things but that's a different question.)
Their play testers are Blizzard's own employees who have absolutely no clue how the game is really played. They're the ones who really enjoyed playing with Purify and thought the card was a great idea.
Purify is a great idea, it's just obviously not a competitive card. Most cards are going to be for arena and/or for funzies not competitive.
You are correct. No one "abuses" a "broken" deck, and pretending that the player is blame-worthy for doing so demonstrates how little consideration most posters on this forum have for the integrity of the game - "play and enjoy the game as I do, or suffer the consequences." Hearthstone's balance team is composed of former MtG and HS pros, former MtG designers, and multiple-time #1 legend players on ladder - all things considered, perhaps it is an exaggeration to suggest that they "have absolutely no clue how the game is really played." FWIW, for the first time in over a year, the meta-game currently features completely viable aggro, midrange, control and combo decks - all first or second tier. Some people don't like it - perhaps they hate playing a fifteen minute match against Reno - and they feel completely justified in aimlessly hurling personal insults against members of the design team for having done their job well.
Re: nerfs suck for people who made the deck: meta shifts often make decks unplayable too. For example, I crafted full golden tempo Mage, a couple of seasons before gadgetzan, expecting classic cards such as mana wyrm and sorcerers apprentice to be useful, good cards for a very long time. You can check my collection. The deck is basically unplayable now, leaving me down several hundred dollars.
I don't think the fact that people who crafted a deck should be able to play it forever is a good reason, at least there should be nerfs when a big set comes in
Because they have to sift through all the calls for nerfs to work out whether it's someone bitching due to losing or something that's genuinely broken
Pirate warrior isn't that broken compared to old decks, it takes much less of a sacrifice to counter than midrange shaman for example, where the main counters lost to pretty much every other deck
But it seems clear to the community that a few things resulting from MSOG require 'fixing.' Pirate Warrior being the most obvious example.
Funniest thing I've read today. Granted, my day just started, but I'm not sure much can top this today.
Please don't get caught up in the salt. Patches the Pirate is certainly powerful and less fair than a lot of other things in this game, but so is the Jade Golem mechanic. So is Reno Jackson, Kazakus, and other members of their ilk (although, Krul the Unshackled is harder to pull off). More importantly, so is Gadgetzan Auctioneer, the card singlehandedly responsible for making Rogue Tier 1 viable.
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Imagine if Blizzard would nerf Small-Time Buccaneer right now. This would make Pirate decks mediocre, and mediocre generally means that you can't play it.
I have to necroquote this.
You see how much "mediocre" pirate become after the pathetic soft, lacking and weak nerf the deck received? Only Tier 1 forever.
When a lot of people ask for nerf they probably right.
I am a relatively new player. I joined in June. I have little experience with Blizzard adjusting card values, powers, etc.
But it seems clear to the community that a few things resulting from MSOG require 'fixing.' Pirate Warrior being the most obvious example.
For those of you who have been around longer than me, can you tell me why it seems to take so long for cards to be tweaked. I play Clash Royale too, and Supercell modifies cards for game balance regularly. Yet from what I'm reading on this website it seems that it'll be months before anything changes in Hearthstone.
Is it that hard to adjust the cards?
Thoughts?
It takes so long because often people have no idea what they're talking about and they're just saying it's op because they lost against it a few times.
Don't have much experience on other virtual card games. But yes, HS adjustments seem to take an eternity and are extremely uncommon.
Played another Blizzard game a lot, Heroes of the Storm, before "returning" to HS, and teams seem to be from a completely different planet. HotS team is open, has an excellent PR with playerbase, releases patches (mostly balance) every two weeks, etc... HS team seems to live in an underground vault, unreachable from those on outside, and totally unaware of the real world. How can two teams on same company be so different from one another? When an OP hero is released on HotS, in a couple of weeks we start seeing some tune downs. HS is way WAY more popular, generates much more revenue, and yet seems unable to react to broken stuff out there in reasonable time, like the others do. Even Overwatch (never played) seems to have much more balance updates.
"But it's just a single character, easy, a card can interact with tons of others!" - WRONG: We are talking about a character, with multiple talent options, that interacts with 50+ other characters in near a dozen of different maps. Maybe more complex.
Despite getting tired of Heroes, I still raise my hat to it's team.
Because it sucks for the players who spend a lot of time / money on making those decks.
Imagine if Blizzard would nerf Small-Time Buccaneer right now. This would make Pirate decks mediocre, and mediocre generally means that you can't play it. You're getting your 200 dust back for the 2 buccaneers, but what about the 10 dollar you spend to make Southsea Captain, Patches the Pirate, Bloodsail Cultist etc which are now suddenly useless as well?
I had the same thing happen to me. I started playing in 2013 when control Hunter was really good. I did not have any cards at all, so i dusted everything i got to craft stuff for control Hunter. Then Starving Buzzard got nerfed (read: Made complete garbage) and control Hunter was suddenly no longer worth playing. So i suddenly only had cards that were kinda useless...
If we ignore the preemptive evergreen nerfs and focus only on meta-driven nerfs, the situation has to become far more dire than what is currently being seen. They nerfed Undertaker because it was just crazy out of control and literally half the ladder was that deck. They nerfed 5 mana Sylvanas Windrunner because it had become an admission fee to play ladder - in every deck. Tinkmaster Overspark fit in the same boat - cheap removal with a body.
The other type of nerf is because the card lends itself to a non-interactive play style. Warsong Commander and Gadgetzan Auctioneer were nerfed for this reason. I don't believe any major deck currently fits this category, pirates included.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I don't believe they will nerf anything whatever people are screaming for since the rotation for the new standard mode will come in 3 to 4 months tops. I just hope it will be a better diversity than what it is currently now. Playing only T6 rushers or 30 minutes mirror matches isn't fun at all, whatever side of the table you are... Also a tweak to the ladder system would also be welcome at the same time!
They would much rather level out the meta by printing new cards against the dominant deck over nerfing. Prime example is mech mage, when it was first released it was viewed as overpowered, probably more so than pirate warrior.
It had a powerful start with turn one Cogmaster into turn two Mechwarper/Snowchugger, into turn three Piloted Shredder/Spider Tank into turn four Goblin Blastmage/Piloted Shredder. The powerful early pressure was very hard to recover from, especially with carsds like Frostbolt and Flamecannon hold down your board. And if you couldn't do it by turn 7 when Dr. Boom entered the field GG. On top of all that, Mage has very high burst potential with Fireball and Frostbolt, so they usually only had to get you under 15 before they just killed you flat out.
Yet, by the time League of explorers was released, Mech Mage was struggling to put up a fight in just about any matchup. It was still the exact same deck, no nerfs were ever made. Simply because new cards were printed, and decks found better ways to battle Mech Mage.
Clash Royale is a much simpler, smaller, newer game. It's unfair to compare it to HS and the incredible amount of implications of nerfing. Cards only get nerfed to improve design space or remove horribly oppressive decks (two things that all of the cards that people are calling for Blizz to nerf do not do)
Their play testers are Blizzard's own employees who have absolutely no clue how the game is really played. They're the ones who really enjoyed playing with Purify and thought the card was a great idea. The argument against having real testers including professionals, streamers, and worthy opponents is that they don't want to spoil the cards in advance. And so the cycle continues. The system is broken. And I truly feel sorry for the OP and all the other newer players that are having to suffer in the current over-the-top toxic meta.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
Re: nerfs suck for people who made the deck: meta shifts often make decks unplayable too. For example, I crafted full golden tempo Mage, a couple of seasons before gadgetzan, expecting classic cards such as mana wyrm and sorcerers apprentice to be useful, good cards for a very long time. You can check my collection. The deck is basically unplayable now, leaving me down several hundred dollars.
I don't think the fact that people who crafted a deck should be able to play it forever is a good reason, at least there should be nerfs when a big set comes in
Because they have to sift through all the calls for nerfs to work out whether it's someone bitching due to losing or something that's genuinely broken
Pirate warrior isn't that broken compared to old decks, it takes much less of a sacrifice to counter than midrange shaman for example, where the main counters lost to pretty much every other deck
Because every time the community calls for something to be nerfed, they're wrong and the actual problem deck shows up a week later.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Undertaker was obvious, sure.
No one was asking for a Warsong nerf, the entire community wanted Patron killed.
the other two happened at a time when the Hearthstone community wasn't this community that demands nerfs for fucking everything.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Funniest thing I've read today. Granted, my day just started, but I'm not sure much can top this today.
Please don't get caught up in the salt. Patches the Pirate is certainly powerful and less fair than a lot of other things in this game, but so is the Jade Golem mechanic. So is Reno Jackson, Kazakus, and other members of their ilk (although, Krul the Unshackled is harder to pull off). More importantly, so is Gadgetzan Auctioneer, the card singlehandedly responsible for making Rogue Tier 1 viable.
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Hey, how's it going?
What's poppin,' player?