Best 1 drop, best 2 drop, best 3 drop (ok with this one after nerf), best 4 drop, best low cost weapon, best 0 mana minion in mid game, best high cost weapon, best AoE, best minion removal (HEX), best inspire minion...
Curse!!! Give shaman the best secrets too... :(
5. No they do not have the best minion removal.
Ok, what removal is best than HEX? One than remove more efficient minions like Tirion and Sylvannas.
I never said Hex was bad removal but that's really all of shaman's hard removal. Some other classes simply have more removal. Each class has it's ups and downs, shaman is just stronger in the rotation right now but I wouldn't say it has the best everything. When standard rotates out, the agressive midrange shaman will be no more unless blizzard gives shaman another totem golem or tunnel trogg.
Best 1 drop, best 2 drop, best 3 drop (ok with this one after nerf), best 4 drop, best low cost weapon, best 0 mana minion in mid game, best high cost weapon, best AoE, best minion removal (HEX), best inspire minion...
Curse!!! Give shaman the best secrets too... :(
5. No they do not have the best minion removal.
Ok, what removal is best than HEX? One than remove more efficient minions like Tirion and Sylvannas.
He probably thought you were talking about minion removal in general (not only Hex), since you writed "SAP" in brackets in your original post (which is a rogue class card), and he probably ignored it.
Maelstorm portal is a quite a broken card in shaman, was evident in the top one brawls where you run 22 maelstorm portals.. it beat every none burst deck.
People thought that card was weak lol..
Also it summons a 1 drop on top of being strong.
Now you combine it with lightning storm which is a balanced card and you make consistant board clears (just like ressurect priest) and add spirit claws intesification of spell power and you get a broken deck.
Best 1 drop, best 2 drop, best 3 drop (ok with this one after nerf), best 4 drop, best low cost weapon, best 0 mana minion in mid game, best high cost weapon, best AoE, best minion removal (SAP), best inspire minion...
Curse!!! Give shaman the best secrets too... :(
1. They don't have the best 3 drop at all actually.
2. Their 4 drops are good but can be countered.
3. Their low cost weapon is situational and fiery war axe is more reliable and Doom Hammer isn't even good. It's only good for going face and comboing with rockbiter.
4. They have really good EARLY game AOE. Big difference from just calling it the best AOE.
5. No they do not have the best minion removal.
6. Thunderbluff is balanced.
Please dude, anything can be countered in the right situation. Shaman has definetly the best 4 drop in the game (Flamewreathed Faceless obviously).
Well yeah the point I was trying to make was that, well look at paladin. It has a lot of good 4 slot cards but without good early game midrange paladin doesn't really exist. And in some cases flame wreath isn't a good card to play. Like against a hunter with freezing trap up you would never play flame wreath into that because not only has the hunter "removed" your minion, you've also lost some mana and would therefore lose the game. It's also gets countered by Keeper of uldaman or peacekeeper. Of course it's still a stupid card (especially in arena) but I mean you don't see flamewreath in every midrange shaman you play against.
Giving Shaman a 2 mana 1 damage aoe that also summ8ns a minion turned a 4 match-up against zoolock into a 6.5 matchup. Why is mid-range getting anti-aggro tools like that? Crazy.
Imagine the uproar if hunter got a 1 mana weapon and a 2 mana aoe.
Well yeah the point I was trying to make was that, well look at paladin. It has a lot of good 4 slot cards but without good early game midrange paladin doesn't really exist. And in some cases flame wreath isn't a good card to play. Like against a hunter with freezing trap up you would never play flame wreath into that because not only has the hunter "removed" your minion, you've also lost some mana and would therefore lose the game. It's also gets countered by Keeper of uldaman or peacekeeper. Of course it's still a stupid card (especially in arena) but I mean you don't see flamewreath in every midrange shaman you play against.
Still, that doesn't mean it is not better than the other 4 drops the other classes have access to. If it were available to them, you would probably see this minion almost everywhere.
Best 1 drop, best 2 drop, best 3 drop (ok with this one after nerf), best 4 drop, best low cost weapon, best 0 mana minion in mid game, best high cost weapon, best AoE, best minion removal (HEX), best inspire minion...
Curse!!! Give shaman the best secrets too... :(
5. No they do not have the best minion removal.
Ok, what removal is best than HEX? One than remove more efficient minions like Tirion and Sylvannas.
He probably thought you were talking about minion removal in general (not only Hex), since you writed "SAP" in brackets in your original post (which is a rogue class card), and he probably ignored it.
Wait, WTF hillandder, did you really edit WaffleMonstr's post? I mean, he quoted you and then you edited your post in the one he made, LOL.
Best 1 drop, best 2 drop, best 3 drop (ok with this one after nerf), best 4 drop, best low cost weapon, best 0 mana minion in mid game, best high cost weapon, best AoE, best minion removal (SAP), best inspire minion...
Curse!!! Give shaman the best secrets too... :(
1. They don't have the best 3 drop at all actually.
2. Their 4 drops are good but can be countered.
3. Their low cost weapon is situational and fiery war axe is more reliable and Doom Hammer isn't even good. It's only good for going face and comboing with rockbiter.
4. They have really good EARLY game AOE. Big difference from just calling it the best AOE.
5. No they do not have the best minion removal.
6. Thunderbluff is balanced.
Please dude, anything can be countered in the right situation. Shaman has definetly the best 4 drop in the game (Flamewreathed Faceless obviously).
Well yeah the point I was trying to make was that, well look at paladin. It has a lot of good 4 slot cards but without good early game midrange paladin doesn't really exist. And in some cases flame wreath isn't a good card to play. Like against a hunter with freezing trap up you would never play flame wreath into that because not only has the hunter "removed" your minion, you've also lost some mana and would therefore lose the game. It's also gets countered by Keeper of uldaman or peacekeeper. Of course it's still a stupid card (especially in arena) but I mean you don't see flamewreath in every midrange shaman you play against.
You don't see faceless in most midrange actually. It's best against aggro and fast tempo as it comes out early enough to matter and they can't take it down. Against execute or polymorph or what have you of slower tournament decks, the card is a liability.
And this fact really is a nitpick and doesn't detract from the main point: that shamans have many good strengths that overlap with each other. And it's that overlap that does it. They have a good early curve (though not Secret Paladin good, but still good), they have powerful and cheap aoe. They have impressive burst. They have a strong tempo that lets them keep refilling the board. And all of this doens't get in the way of one another and, in many cases, support one another.
Note that it's not the aoes alone that cause this. yes, removing the aoes would hurt them, but the same goes from removing their early curve (which will happen next rotation) or killing their constant tempo-based board refills (which, again, will get hurt due to no thunderbluff). Without all this, they become just a reactive class without enough threats to keep the opponent
Which is why they probably can't be nerfed at this point. They already lost their aggro build, and will lose A LOT of their midrange build come rotation time. More nerfs now would mean shaman goes down to priest level next spring.
I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it look at all.
First, Elemental Destruction can be an emergency AOE in case someone gets a dream start, and in that case it allows you to 1. Skip early board control, which can bait more minions from your opponent and allow you to get a better mid or late game 2. Reduce its actual cost since Overload (5) on turn 4 is overkill ; Also, you could just cancel the overload altogether with Lava Shock. Flamestrike is 7 mana, period.
Late game, you can play Elemental Destruction AND a midrange-y minion, which means that your opponent won't be able to sneak an attack in through your summoning sickness. With Flamestrike, they could.
I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it look at all.
First, Elemental Destruction can be an emergency AOE in case someone gets a dream start, and in that case it allows you to 1. Skip early board control, which can bait more minions from your opponent and allow you to get a better mid or late game 2. Reduce its actual cost since Overload (5) on turn 4 is overkill ; Also, you could just cancel the overload altogether with Lava Shock. Flamestrike is 7 mana, period.
Late game, you can play Elemental Destruction AND a midrange-y minion, which means that your opponent won't be able to sneak an attack in through your summoning sickness. With Flamestrike, they could.
Please, he just means in general. Woeden is right.
Best 1 drop, best 2 drop, best 3 drop (ok with this one after nerf), best 4 drop, best low cost weapon, best 0 mana minion in mid game, best high cost weapon, best AoE, best minion removal (HEX), best inspire minion...
Curse!!! Give shaman the best secrets too... :(
5. No they do not have the best minion removal.
Ok, what removal is best than HEX? One than remove more efficient minions like Tirion and Sylvannas.
He probably thought you were talking about minion removal in general (not only Hex), since you writed "SAP" in brackets in your original post (which is a rogue class card), and he probably ignored it.
Wait, WTF hillandder, did you really edit WaffleMonstr's post? I mean, he quoted you and then you edited your post in the one he made, LOL.
I write SAP for mistake, I want to say HEX, my edit are trying to stop my mistake goes on...
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Maelstorm portal is a quite a broken card in shaman, was evident in the top one brawls where you run 22 maelstorm portals.. it beat every none burst deck.
People thought that card was weak lol..
Also it summons a 1 drop on top of being strong.
Now you combine it with lightning storm which is a balanced card and you make consistant board clears (just like ressurect priest) and add spirit claws intesification of spell power and you get a broken deck.
Giving Shaman a 2 mana 1 damage aoe that also summ8ns a minion turned a 4 match-up against zoolock into a 6.5 matchup. Why is mid-range getting anti-aggro tools like that? Crazy.
Imagine the uproar if hunter got a 1 mana weapon and a 2 mana aoe.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.