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I won my 1000th game about an hour ago. Last season I ended up Rank 7.
I find it hilarious when people claim that this game is not pay-to-win(mostly muddling up the semantics of the phrase as a defense). They often use two examples to justify:
1. You can beat anyone with a basic deck. You don't need legendaries to win!
-first, everyone here has executed/poly/hex'd a legendary, removing it from the board and costing your opponent a full turn. Great job, you had a hex in your hand when Tyrion dropped. What you dont hear much about is the next 8 examples when you dont have a poly ready and waiting and you get wiped or need about 3-4 cards to try and deal with it, effectively ending the game anyways.
-second, If you are running zoo warlock/UTH Hunter/Murloc then yes you dont need any legendaries to make a lethal deck that can beat anyone. Those decks are heavily reliant on card draw and rng and have nothing to do with the argument of one person with a legendary competing against another without.
2.You don't need to buy anything you can unlock everything just by playing!
-It's like saying you don't need a crane to move an enormous boulder. You can move it all by yourself with just a tiny pick hammer. Yes, it is true, I can move an enormous boulder with a tiny pick hammer... I can chip on it for 15 years and carry crumbs in my pocket. But, because the statement is factual it makes it irrefutable to some people.
-Aside from dailies you need 3 wins for 10 gold. Lets say you are winning at a healthy 50% win rate that is 6 matches for every 10 gold. Lets say each match is 10 minutes long. That would account for 1 full hour(playing non stop) for 10 gold. 10 hours per SINGLE PACK. 15 HOURS to play ONE ARENA run. Thats A LOT of pick hammering.
Lastly, I hear people say they only have ONE legendary they are using in a deck. JUST ONE, not a big difference. Let me tell you what one legendary is capable of in a synergized deck. Let's take JUST ONE Leroy. Leroy in a rouge deck can be sapped 3 times, ending the game. Leroy in a pally deck can be kinged and hit for half your damage. Leroy in a Hunter deck can finish off a one turn standard UTH that otherwise wouldn't have been lethal. I highly doubt these level 14's I am playing all just casually got Ragnaros/Leroy/Ysera from packs after a few dailies. They paid for them and used them to end games.
The number of games that I was winning with a better deck and making better decisions that end when someone plays a Deathwing/Ysera/Tyrion and I don't happen to have a silence or poly drawn are uncountable. The person was losing and with ONE CARD -THAT THEY PAID MONEY FOR- the game is now over and they win.
I played someone recently with 3 legendaries (Baine, Rag, Alexandra). I killed Baine, then took a big 8 shot damage from Rag but poly'd him right after, and when he was about to die he top decked Alexandra to get back up to 15 and win the game. After the game I messaged him and said it must be nice to have those cards win for you. His response was priceless. "DONT BE POOR. LOL PWNED"
Sounds like you're having a bad day. don't stress it, just enjoy the game.
Feel free to add me in-game. I won't bite. Probably.
The statement free to play is misleading, i agree. Yes you can play the game and enjoy it to an extent without any legendaries, but if you even dream of competing seriously then legendaries and epics are an absolute must.
But seriously though, all ccgs are like this though. That's just how it is. Either quit these games or stick to playing casual matches
Play arena. Problem solved.
Pff, I hit rank 3 with a deck that was f2p (read: zoo) Just takes time and knowledge of how the strategies in hearthstone work.
Feel free to add me in-game. I won't bite. Probably.
Yes, zoo is a f2p viable deck. Along with UTH Hunter. Those are your only options. This is well known. Your are almost completely reliant upon card draw and flooding the board. Remove those two isolated decks and examine my argument again.
What kind of deck do you play? post it maybe people will help and comment on it. Its not like your first one to feel this way. Some people are luckier than others. How many legendaries do you have? ive won 600 games and i have 4 and i think that sounds about right for not saving up to craft any. It only makes sense that people who throw in 50 or more dollars into the game would have more legendaries than someone who plays only for free. And on your point about playing 15 hours to do 1 arena run, dude come on thats what the everyday quests are for. And yes i know its only 1 a day and usualy its only 40g but still this cant be the only game you play.
Twitch.tv/Darkslice
If you have a few bad arena runs you will quickly lose that opportunity.
Arena is the best part of this game, to bad it costs about 5 hours of grinding against those with legendaries(see previous argument) to get to play it just once.
I have one p2p and one f2p account, plus my 5 year old has his "own" f2p account (god help you if you lose to him)... I enjoy my f2p account to arena as much as possible, but laddering is significantly difficult on it as opposed to my p2p. still, its a game, so have fun and play :)
First off, this game is P2W any one who says other wise is an idiot. The definition is literally: Spend IRL money, gain advantage. Buying any amount of packs with money gains you an advantage.
Second, as a card game RNG will happen, not having an answer for tirion is a poor excuse to quit the game since it will happen from time to time. A bigger issue is more so the imbalance of classes right now with hunters / zoo locks absolutely dominating the meta and classes like priest, pally and rogue falling short.
Ultimately, I play this game VERY casually, blizzard lacks the understanding of: "Creating fun and crazy decks is the best part of the game"
BUT to be able to do that in an acceptable amount of time involves spending alot of money .. As such the game itself will never truely be fun or exciting when you get 1 pack every 2 days from quests... A simple change such as every 3 wins earns you a PACK not 10 gold would solve it. But as such, it's a game you should play casually and relax with, crap will happen and when it starts to bug you, just log off and go play some thing else.
So that your argument works, we're supposed to ignore two powerful deck archetypes? That's the Special Pleading Fallacy, sir. You're moving the goalposts, creating exceptions when you've already been proven wrong.
Poetic.
This. I thought it had been common knowledge for twenty years now that if you wanted to excel at these sort of card games, you need to spend money on cards. Usually a lot of money - frankly, usually a lot more money than it would cost you to get the cards you need to play the Hearthstone deck you want to play.
Not every game is for everyone. I admire the OPs perseverance in sticking it out with Hearthstone for 1000 wins before realizing that CCGs are not for him, but yeah, cut your losses and move on to a game that is more your sort of thing.
You are hung up on the semantics(perhaps as a defense mechanism) of invalidating my argument because it doesn't meet an exact binary conclusion.
Yes, there are two very specific and pigeon holed options that rely upon the card draw passive of the warlock to flood the board or what many believe to be the broken aspects of the hunter UTH kit.
You have presented a strawman argument that doesn't address the simple fact of someone paying for and using legendaries versus someone who doesnt and the adherent advantages associated.
I really have to agree...People rage on hunters("huntards") and zoos because they have(had?) high win rates. The problem is that they are basically the only decks you can build with "cheap" cards. Other decks are relatively hard to build unless you put some money in the game. Most decks NEED a few legendaries to work(i'm not even talking about crafting lots of rares).
I have been playing for a few weeks(reached rank 4 playing hunter and a tweaked warrior deck) now and I can say I've reached the limit between hitting my head against the wall(playing like a no brainer to farm gold) and quitting because I refuse to pay. I have opened a good(20+ maybe?) amount of packs, but I'm still missing "key" cards like Feral Spirit, Ice Lance, Scavenging Hyena, Knife Juggler... so I play 3-4 matches and go Arena. I'm not done with Hearthstone yet, but they really need to do something about card crafting/gold earned.
Edit:
It's funny because this game was released on iPad, which can be called "casual" gaming. I believe they should have thought about all those players who could become Blizzard fans by downloading the future mobile versions of HS(Android is probably coming out some day).
Just getting my achievement
When Aggro Pally was still viable I was able to build him without spending money (including leeroy). Cashed in all my other class cards and every golden card I had (including a golden Ysera I pulled from a free pack) to do it though.
But in all seriousness, it's a card game you're going to need to buy packs to ladder worth a damn unless you're someone like Kolento. "f2p" doesn't negate "p2w" in this context. Unless you know exactly what deck you're going for the randomness of what cards you get from a pack will necessitate speeding up the acquisition of packs to get more options to build better decks.
Look on the bright side, you could be playing Magic right now and spent $2000 on that tournament level deck you're running.
What I don't like is the literal gambling that Arena is. If there's something to bitch about with Hearthstone's current income model it's that.
go play that shitty mtg:dotp because not being able to edit decks is so fun. but hey at least everyone has the same cards
Ive spent like ten dollars on arenas total. I play for maybe an hour a day on average. I have 5 legendaries. If you dont want to spend money, it just takes patience. The idea though that you should get a pack for every three wins is ridiculous. I would have had every card in a month.
Playing to cap and doing quests gets you over 4000 gold a month. That's a load of free packs every month. You can't not have cards if you actually try, and if you aren't trying then what exactly do you want? What's wrong with spending money on this game anyways? The people buying cards are keeping the game going, not the f2p crowd. Why treat supporting a game as some kind of dirty act? Buying cards isn't paying to win, it's just how games work.
Zoo and Hunter were already given as examples of viable free-to-play decks, and the response was a cry for help about being pigeon holed. I don't understand how you can refuse to spend money or time on a game and demand to be on even footing with everyone else.
This game being free to play gives people the most peculiar sense of entitlement.
I blame the attitude on League of Legends and other games where you only "pay" for cosmetic changes (skins) and not access to content (those games usually have a content rotation model - for instance heroes rotating out of draft). In the end cards are content.
Imagine if golden heros / golden cards were bought via IRL cash.... And all other cards were not instead however you generated alot of them by grinding (Say a pack every 3 wins) The game would self sustain easily by those who want all the shiny stuff that gives them no advantage in the actual player vs player gameplay, suddenly, you cant just pay to win, instead you pay for a certainly level of flare / cosmetic bonuses, keeping the game alive and from a competitive point of view, every one is equal.
It's not a sense of entitlement its using a proper monetization plan.