I used to play alot of different decks, and all of them had fairly bad match-up against secret paladin, so I decided to craft a couple of MCs and give it a shot. After playing a fair bit of secret paladin, and a fair amount against it aswell, I've come to the conclusion that the deck isn't all that powerful.
Now, that's gonna sound really weird to most people, because the deck has such powerful cards. But that's where the problem lies, in my opinion anyway. Because the deck, or at least most the variations that I've seen are all focused around getting out a specific powerful curve. Like MC into Boom into Tirion, and even certain early game curves aswell, such as Juggler into Muster into Shredder, or whatever.
Yes, designing a deck with such a powerful curve does make it a powerful deck, but only if it can hit that curve. For example, if my opponent has an answer to my MC into Boom play, then what do I? My deck was built around getting out that curve and winning, which it can do alot of the time, but if my opponent can outlast my power curve, and clear my board then what do I have left in my deck? Powerful early game minions, but they don't work together too well, and certainly cannot stand up to the late game minions.
One MC played on turn 6 isn't the worst thing ever, many decks have a way of dealing with it, with some investment, and hopefully some already established board presence. Shadow Word Death, BGH and other removal cards really help in decks, dealing with MC, aswell as other big threats.
Yes, I do understand that a bad draw can decide a game, before turn 1, but that goes with every deck ever. If any deck doesn't draw early game, then it's probably gonna lose to a deck that does, with a few rare exceptions of course. But the point is that once both decks, Secret Paladin and whatever, reach the late game, and the Secret Pally is at a disadvantage, because the whole point of the Secret Paladin was playing it's powerful cards on curve. If it doesn't do that, it not working as well as it could be.
TL;DR Secret Paladin is good, but only if it draws it's powerful curve. otherwise, it's sub-par at most.
Secret Paladin with a God draw might be just about unbeatable. Double secret keeper turn 1, followed by 2 secrets turn 2 then divine favor into shredder, loatheb, mc, boom has happened to me before and it feels so unfair I want to puke. That being said, after playing dozens of games against secret paly I can now put up a decent fight in most cases. I win some, I lose some, but I almost never feel helpless.
Yeah, a lot of it is surviving that first 5-secret burst without losing too much HP. Once secret pally runs out of fuel to throw at you, they're pretty much dead in the water.
MC can turn around a match in your favour even if you didn't have good early game it has that much power, if you did curve out even relatively nice MC is the final nail in the coffin for the other player. Most decks are not very controlley so they are not going to keep on dropping late game bombs like you suggest consequently you can out pace most midrange matchups, and beat control decks with your strong early game. Lastly it just dosent feel fair to me that my opponent gets to play 4 to 5 cards for free while getting 6/6 maybe it does to you some people ahem the ones who play paladin :)
oh and ps I can make the same statement you did about most decks in hearthstone curve out powerfully or die Bahahahahah :P
of course any deck is beatable and secret paly is not unbeatable, but it's absolutely overpowered. If I have important combinations or key cards to get to then any other deck has to play for card draw to cycle into what you want. to cycle through 5 cards to get what you want takes a lot of mana and cards (even spring takes either 7 mana for 4 cards or preparation and 4 mana and then you likely have to wait a turn before playing anything. With secret paly you play a 6/6 and cycle 5 cards out of your deck that immediately go into f'n play. Then you are left with 5 less cards in the way of what you want which dramatically increases your odds of picking up something else valuable to play. So you can play it and you can love/hate it, but don't defend it. It's horseplop and you cannot ladder consistently with any deck that you want no matter how good you are with it because you will run into multiple secret paladins. you have to account for what you will play on ladder. You can get lucky with the classes you face or against some matchups, but if you don't have a deck that consistently can beat SP, then you will not likely rise far on the ladder.
Zzz another thread on Secret Paladin. Even if Dr 6 gets nerfed, people will find something else to complain about, because people don't like it when decks other then their own are strong, or when they lose. It's never gonna end.
Secret paladin players:Secret paladin is balanced because i dont auto win every time.
Honestly the bullshit you guys say is surreal!I can't wait for the blizzard to nerf the fuck out of it.I was sad when they completely destroyed patron when all it was needed was a minor change.But this time i will celebrate.All the bming ''well met''scrubs will go back to rank 10 where the belong.
You've kind of inadvertently made the point of those that hate secret paladin. Note that I'm not one of those people - I maintain a ~50% rate against them and I've never felt "helpless" or like I'm not being interacted with like I did with patron. I was 100% for the nerf to patron decks but I would not be in favor of a secret pally nerf. I think it's an interesting deck to play against that forces you to make meaningful decisions with your sequencing and removals, and it's never a deck that's upset me even when they curve perfectly and destroy me. I find matches against them to be interactive and frankly fun.
Anyway, what you've said is basically the issue that many detractors have with the deck. Of course, every deck would like a good curve - most decks will win if they curve out and will lose if they don't. What you're suggesting, though, is that Secret Paladin is SO reliant on whether they get their curve that it's the biggest/only factor in deciding victory, and this is what many people have a problem with.
There are relatively few decisions or interesting plays to make; you tend to win if you curve out decently well and lose if you don't. And you'll curve out decently well enough to have a slightly higher than 50% win rate most of the time. This leaves little room for skillful play or combos, though there are a few; playing out a minibot or a shredder along with redemption but NOT get down can be incredibly frustrating for someone who knows what the secret is but needs to keep the board clear because of the impending MC on turn 6. But the typical complaint about Secret Pally is that it takes little skill and therefore can propel mediocre players to new highs. I'm not necessarily saying that this is the case as I haven't actually played a single game as Secret Paladin, but this is what's said here often and your observations seem to mirror that.
Rule number 1: Secret paladin always has good curve
Rule number 2: If their curve is bad then your curve absolutely sucks.
Problem is that this is perfectly true. I only remember 1 game where the guy didn't get something close to god curve (he still played MC on curve but I already dealt too much damage benefiting of his poor curve).
Talking about a possible bad curve considering Secret Paladin as an example of its weakness is just irrelevant and a proof that you never even played any control deck that can bring you 3 fucking 7+ crystal-cost cards as an opening hand.
However this third topic about secret paladin will endlessly repeat the flawed arguments (as demonstrated all the 100 pages of the previous ones) of its defenders so hm…
edit: to Jainaishot: Grim Patron Warrior is always very good
edit 2: Check this guy's username hahaha…
Edit 3: By multiple sources, the only deck present rank 5 and under is Paladin secret (EU region)… A friend of mine told me that he is forced to play the deck because everyone is doing it… and that you can't win (enough) unless you do so.
The deck's quality is extremely overstated, that has never been the issue. I would put it at high tier two at best.
The main problem is that it is an extremely easy deck to play and can easily blow up anything else when it gets a decent enough draw, even decks that are built specifically to counter it. Furthermore it is extremely frustrating to play against and the fact that it's so easy to do well with means that every one on ladder plays it.
Secret pally is not even that good anymore in the current meta, you have a terrible win % against Reno Locks, and anything that runs reno jackson. Zoo Locks have the slight advantage over you. Most people have already learned how to play around Dr 6 aka mysterious challenger and while sometimes you might meet a secret pally with a godlike starting hand of 2 secret keepers and a hand full of secrets and you have no answers for it, thankfully the occurances of that are low.
Secret pally is not even that good anymore in the current meta, you have a terrible win % against Reno Locks, and anything that runs reno jackson. Zoo Locks have the slight advantage over you. Most people have already learned how to play around Dr 6 aka mysterious challenger and while sometimes you might meet a secret pally with a godlike starting hand of 2 secret keepers and a hand full of secrets and you have no answers for it, thankfully the occurances of that are low.
Unless you are playing the aggro version of SP(which sucks) I'd say you are more than favored against renolock. If you really need to, add a DF to the deck and you won't lose to them at all.
Lol if you lose with secret paladin, you dont know how to play this game. Its most OP deck with most op cards plus it requires no skill to play, thats why a lot of people play it.
Why are you trying to defend the deck? Just play the damn thing and forget what other people think. You're trying to win games, not make friends with everyone along the way. I respect people who play the way they want to play over people who tell others how to play so if you're content in playing the deck, more power to you.
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I used to play alot of different decks, and all of them had fairly bad match-up against secret paladin, so I decided to craft a couple of MCs and give it a shot. After playing a fair bit of secret paladin, and a fair amount against it aswell, I've come to the conclusion that the deck isn't all that powerful.
Now, that's gonna sound really weird to most people, because the deck has such powerful cards. But that's where the problem lies, in my opinion anyway. Because the deck, or at least most the variations that I've seen are all focused around getting out a specific powerful curve. Like MC into Boom into Tirion, and even certain early game curves aswell, such as Juggler into Muster into Shredder, or whatever.
Yes, designing a deck with such a powerful curve does make it a powerful deck, but only if it can hit that curve. For example, if my opponent has an answer to my MC into Boom play, then what do I? My deck was built around getting out that curve and winning, which it can do alot of the time, but if my opponent can outlast my power curve, and clear my board then what do I have left in my deck? Powerful early game minions, but they don't work together too well, and certainly cannot stand up to the late game minions.
One MC played on turn 6 isn't the worst thing ever, many decks have a way of dealing with it, with some investment, and hopefully some already established board presence. Shadow Word Death, BGH and other removal cards really help in decks, dealing with MC, aswell as other big threats.
Yes, I do understand that a bad draw can decide a game, before turn 1, but that goes with every deck ever. If any deck doesn't draw early game, then it's probably gonna lose to a deck that does, with a few rare exceptions of course. But the point is that once both decks, Secret Paladin and whatever, reach the late game, and the Secret Pally is at a disadvantage, because the whole point of the Secret Paladin was playing it's powerful cards on curve. If it doesn't do that, it not working as well as it could be.
TL;DR Secret Paladin is good, but only if it draws it's powerful curve. otherwise, it's sub-par at most.
Also, this is my opinion, feel free to disagree
Secret Paladin with a God draw might be just about unbeatable. Double secret keeper turn 1, followed by 2 secrets turn 2 then divine favor into shredder, loatheb, mc, boom has happened to me before and it feels so unfair I want to puke. That being said, after playing dozens of games against secret paly I can now put up a decent fight in most cases. I win some, I lose some, but I almost never feel helpless.
Yeah, a lot of it is surviving that first 5-secret burst without losing too much HP. Once secret pally runs out of fuel to throw at you, they're pretty much dead in the water.
MC can turn around a match in your favour even if you didn't have good early game it has that much power, if you did curve out even relatively nice MC is the final nail in the coffin for the other player. Most decks are not very controlley so they are not going to keep on dropping late game bombs like you suggest consequently you can out pace most midrange matchups, and beat control decks with your strong early game. Lastly it just dosent feel fair to me that my opponent gets to play 4 to 5 cards for free while getting 6/6 maybe it does to you some people ahem the ones who play paladin :)
oh and ps I can make the same statement you did about most decks in hearthstone curve out powerfully or die Bahahahahah :P
Even though I think Secret Paladin is on the strong side, I don't want Blizzard to nerf it, because whatever they touch, they kill outright.
I think it's a good deck. Not overpowered by any means. I had more success last season with Reno-Lock than Secret Pally.
Personally, I'd rather face a Secret Pally than many other decks out there. I never shake in my boots when I see that secret dropped on turn 1.
Galavant Animation
of course any deck is beatable and secret paly is not unbeatable, but it's absolutely overpowered. If I have important combinations or key cards to get to then any other deck has to play for card draw to cycle into what you want. to cycle through 5 cards to get what you want takes a lot of mana and cards (even spring takes either 7 mana for 4 cards or preparation and 4 mana and then you likely have to wait a turn before playing anything. With secret paly you play a 6/6 and cycle 5 cards out of your deck that immediately go into f'n play. Then you are left with 5 less cards in the way of what you want which dramatically increases your odds of picking up something else valuable to play. So you can play it and you can love/hate it, but don't defend it. It's horseplop and you cannot ladder consistently with any deck that you want no matter how good you are with it because you will run into multiple secret paladins. you have to account for what you will play on ladder. You can get lucky with the classes you face or against some matchups, but if you don't have a deck that consistently can beat SP, then you will not likely rise far on the ladder.
Quoth the raven...
Rule number 1: Secret paladin always has good curve
Rule number 2: If their curve is bad then your curve absolutely sucks.
Zzz another thread on Secret Paladin. Even if Dr 6 gets nerfed, people will find something else to complain about, because people don't like it when decks other then their own are strong, or when they lose. It's never gonna end.
What is combo dudu?
Secret paladin players:Secret paladin is balanced because i dont auto win every time.
Honestly the bullshit you guys say is surreal!I can't wait for the blizzard to nerf the fuck out of it.I was sad when they completely destroyed patron when all it was needed was a minor change.But this time i will celebrate.All the bming ''well met''scrubs will go back to rank 10 where the belong.
You've kind of inadvertently made the point of those that hate secret paladin. Note that I'm not one of those people - I maintain a ~50% rate against them and I've never felt "helpless" or like I'm not being interacted with like I did with patron. I was 100% for the nerf to patron decks but I would not be in favor of a secret pally nerf. I think it's an interesting deck to play against that forces you to make meaningful decisions with your sequencing and removals, and it's never a deck that's upset me even when they curve perfectly and destroy me. I find matches against them to be interactive and frankly fun.
Anyway, what you've said is basically the issue that many detractors have with the deck. Of course, every deck would like a good curve - most decks will win if they curve out and will lose if they don't. What you're suggesting, though, is that Secret Paladin is SO reliant on whether they get their curve that it's the biggest/only factor in deciding victory, and this is what many people have a problem with.
There are relatively few decisions or interesting plays to make; you tend to win if you curve out decently well and lose if you don't. And you'll curve out decently well enough to have a slightly higher than 50% win rate most of the time. This leaves little room for skillful play or combos, though there are a few; playing out a minibot or a shredder along with redemption but NOT get down can be incredibly frustrating for someone who knows what the secret is but needs to keep the board clear because of the impending MC on turn 6. But the typical complaint about Secret Pally is that it takes little skill and therefore can propel mediocre players to new highs. I'm not necessarily saying that this is the case as I haven't actually played a single game as Secret Paladin, but this is what's said here often and your observations seem to mirror that.
I only remember 1 game where the guy didn't get something close to god curve (he still played MC on curve but I already dealt too much damage benefiting of his poor curve).
Talking about a possible bad curve considering Secret Paladin as an example of its weakness is just irrelevant and a proof that you never even played any control deck that can bring you 3 fucking 7+ crystal-cost cards as an opening hand.
However this third topic about secret paladin will endlessly repeat the flawed arguments (as demonstrated all the 100 pages of the previous ones) of its defenders so hm…
edit: to Jainaishot: Grim Patron Warrior is always very good
edit 2: Check this guy's username hahaha…
Edit 3: By multiple sources, the only deck present rank 5 and under is Paladin secret (EU region)… A friend of mine told me that he is forced to play the deck because everyone is doing it… and that you can't win (enough) unless you do so.
It is very powerful, which is a slight problem. It is also exceptionally easy to play, which is a huge problem.
How is they might draw shit even an argument? That's true for every deck. "Hey guys, what if they can't play anything until turn 5? It's balanced."
I have another argument for it not to be op, mate! What if they DC? Then you win 100% of the time! Balanced deck stop whining.
Dab
The deck's quality is extremely overstated, that has never been the issue. I would put it at high tier two at best.
The main problem is that it is an extremely easy deck to play and can easily blow up anything else when it gets a decent enough draw, even decks that are built specifically to counter it. Furthermore it is extremely frustrating to play against and the fact that it's so easy to do well with means that every one on ladder plays it.
Secret pally is not even that good anymore in the current meta, you have a terrible win % against Reno Locks, and anything that runs reno jackson. Zoo Locks have the slight advantage over you. Most people have already learned how to play around Dr 6 aka mysterious challenger and while sometimes you might meet a secret pally with a godlike starting hand of 2 secret keepers and a hand full of secrets and you have no answers for it, thankfully the occurances of that are low.
Lol if you lose with secret paladin, you dont know how to play this game. Its most OP deck with most op cards plus it requires no skill to play, thats why a lot of people play it.
Why are you trying to defend the deck? Just play the damn thing and forget what other people think. You're trying to win games, not make friends with everyone along the way. I respect people who play the way they want to play over people who tell others how to play so if you're content in playing the deck, more power to you.