Hearthpwn

Quote from koopa182 »

Thanks Kilath, you hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks. I have to admit I'm getting sick of people who want a TCG to not be a TCG. The meta is the fun part; I could play any number of games if I just wanted a static RNG-fest.

Here's a (no so) secret: I've done awfully this season so far. I'm a skilled player via sheer hours and base-knowledge (20 years of TCG experience) but also certainly not top-tier. I have yet to dedicate myself to achieving legendary (though I'm considering trying seriously this season) and it isn't my primary goal at all. I tilted hard in the first two weeks and am only now coming back to my 70-80% win ratio. It's okay! Why did I do poorly? I was completely unprepared for the Hunter/Zoo meta since I had taken some time off last season. Two weeks of slamming my head against the screen eventually (via practice) got me to a place where it clicked and now I'm back in good form. Those first two weeks were the absolute, 100% result of Zoo/Hunter dominance. It happens. The best players can get caught by a meta shift. For example, I know TidesofTime is playing things pretty casual until the meta shifts again and Reynad is doing the same.

Is this meta the "most fun" the game has ever been? absolutely not. In fact, there are plenty of reasons to dislike the current state of things (and any top player would probably say somewhat similar) but that doesn't mean anything needs adjustment, exactly. Every TCG goes through this from time to time. In the end, it's stuff exactly like the Hunter combo that keeps me playing card games. There is a pretty genius use of a card that had been experimented on forever. Anyone can have a deck full of good cards, but you still need to learn to use them. If someone is just getting mauled in every game versus Hunter or Zoo, then you have either a deck problem or a play problem. In most cases these people think they're far better players than they are (as evidenced by the claims that these meta decks "take no skill" which is an absolute lie and they know it they just can't admit the problem stems from their own self).

I tend to agree with Kilath to be honest. Maybe not so angrily ;). Just change up your deck Or your play style. I mean do you really want to craft one deck and then just rock to legend without any problems? TheN we would be complaining about how boring the game is lol. Ohe and I play Priest hahaha, so considering that on all the sites that track stats Priest is like the lowest win rate, I should complain a lot. But like I said if it were easy it wouldn't be fun.

Quote from Kilath »

In most cases these people think they're far better players than they are (as evidenced by the claims that these meta decks "take no skill" which is an absolute lie and they know it they just can't admit the problem stems from their own self).

Another really on target comment. Thank you.

It depends on what deck the OP uses and/or what he uses to counter the aggro rush. Meta is meta is meta is meta. Period. If you want to counter the amount of aggro decks, build a deck accordingly. Also, what rank are you? I'm around rank 12-11 and I'm running into a lot of control decks. I've onyl encountered one rush deck and that was a Paladin.

Why is this thread a thing? Hunters are 10 times better.

Quote from HappyStreet »

Why is this thread a thing? Hunters are 10 times better.

Better, sure. But both are annoying.

Quote from Sare »

ve intended drawback, cry me a river. if the doomguard discars junk like vw and abusive, its still great value for the warlock, if ti discards argent and doa, well then its the warlocks stupidity. can shaman cheese overloads? no? then I dont see why warlock should be able to cheese discards.

Faceless manipulator will copy stuff (Earth Elemental) and not trigger Overload. Neither will Alarm Bot. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you could turn 1 Dust Devil + coin Dust Devil, and have 4 overload next turn while having 2 mana crystals, as will other combos that overload over your maximum crystals. Just because (apart from first) those tactcs aren't popular doesn't mean you can't work around mechanics, you didn't see much Doomguard before either. Discard is not a cost, it's an side effect. If you can play Shattered Sun Battle Cry: Buff minion on empty board, why not Battle Cry: Discard?

Congrats for completely missing my point,  double Dust Devil was easiest example I could bring. The statement was that you can't 'cheese' overload while clearly there is way to overload yourself so much you won't really 'pay' what you supposed to. Just like there is way to not 'pay' with discards (unless your hand is Doomguard/Doomguard/Soulfire which happens quite often). You cry for change in core game mechanic that would make huge changes to all game (Minions can be played even when Battlecry have nothing to target) which is ridiculous, seeing it would just make another unplayable Demon and wouldn't really change deck strength which is to flood board with valuable minions. It would just change finisher and you would see more Argent Commanders, Leeroys or even Rockless Rocketeers, instead and you're back to square one (or even worse and just face more aggro oriented Zoo with Power Overwhelming etc., the one people seem to bitch about play controllish, bit by bit gets more value than enemy can counter with).

Quote from tonyy0 »

Quote from nutweave »

Quote from tonyy0 »

Quote from nutweave »

If you nerf Zoo, what are those of us who don't spend money on this game going to play?  For people who aren't wallet warriors, we are pigeon-holed into playing Zoo or Huntard aggro if we want to try and get legendary.

They should reduce the price of crafting "old" legendaries when Naxx comes out so some of us can get caught up to the meta game.  I absolutely despise playing zoo/hunter but I have no choice, unless I want to play an underperforming deck and hope I queue against it's counter.

Come on that isn't even fair to say! ALOT of people haven't spent any money on Hearthstone and have flourishing card collections. The fact that you are saying since because you didn't pay for anything you HAVE to play zoo or huntard, that is completely one-sided.. I am telling you, ALOT of people haven't purchased any kind of in-game ANYTHING and have many decks to play with. Why can't you disenchant cards you don't want/need and make the ones you do, like the rest of us? doesn't mean you are forced to play certain decks...c'mon 

I have de'd enough to where I couldn't play 2 of the classes because I de'd all their cards.  Unless you have been playing since beta consistently, you won't have the cards to play anything other than the budget decks that compete (zoo/hunter).  I played beta, stopped for a few months, started playing again a couple weeks ago.  

I guess all these guys I'm going up agaist with 4+ legendaries in their deck all earned them through amazing arena play and great luck?  

your argument is null dude, i'm sorry, the thread is about the absurdness of the zoo list, not the fact that you can't craft your own cards. ive put money into the game and i still don't have the cards that are friendly to the list.. so since you havent spent any money, you MUST play it or hunter? no im sorry, there are many free-to-play decks that actually do require some skill and though process to play. (mage, paladin, etc.. there are lots..)

Just for fun (and to play with certain friends) I started working on an EU account that is totally f2p. I'm not a big fan of draft either, so I rarely do Arena. Point being that even with classes that I have yet to unlock all the basic cards, I'm doing just fine and winning more than I am losing (not hyper competitive, but ranked). Hearthstone is such a simple, basic-mechanic game (at this point, first set) that it really is about those base mechanics.

Show me someone complaining about their losses and blaming the meta and I'll almost always also show you someone who doesn't know how to trade, can't determine value and generally misplays in a thousand little ways every game.

If you can trade well (which isn't always easy) you'll win more than lose. Zoo trades extremely well, which is part of the steamroll second to that hero power (and because of the draw, really). Hell, going darkhorse and throwing stuff that is uncommon to see at your opponent can win you games, too. I've been having casual fun with a Mage deck running stuff like Counterspells. Because no one is anticipating a Counterspell, opponents will play right into it. Like that Shaman who tapped out to clear my board but... countered. Not gonna get you legendary, but think about when you see a deck that looks like X but isn't: you often misplay the first few turns because you're expecting something else.

That's how metas change.

Quote from chuck129 »

One is something you have to pay for but you do not get (battlecry)

One is something you do not pay fur but do get.(discard)

It is completely irrevelant wheter or not effect is positive or negative. Even further, for majority of card you can't clearly even say if they are positive or not. Is Cruel Taskmaster battlecry positive effect or cost? What if only card on board is your x/1? Is Infernal effect a benefit (dealing dmg to enemy board) or cost (damaging your stuff and life).

Currenly, Hearthstone operates basic rules which are: Cost, which is always and only the Crystal in top left, and Battelcry, which is and effect that, if able, always trigger if conditions are met, but won't stop you from playing card. In order to make discard a forced effect you need to create new type of event - 'In order to play this card, you must be able to also x'.

Do you really don't see my argument? Currently HS is too limited for that. In future, they might add such effect as something unique to Warlock. But this won't happen until pretty major overhaul of class as currently Warlock, master of Demons, Life Drain and Curses, is least classcard-using character in game, riding neutral minions  and hero power for all their worth.

Such effects do already exist - they're just currently limited to cards that target "two random minions."

Forked Lightning, Multi-Shot, and Cleave cannot be used unless your opponent has at least 2 cards on the table. All three of those are spells - conversely there are certainly other spells which you are allowed to use in a useless manner (Frost Nova when your opponent has no minions).

So there's no real consistency, but "you can only play if..." rules are part of Hearthstone.

Spells are not Battlecries though. If a Battlecry: Discard have to be paid, why Battlecry: Buff a minion can be played without valid target?

(Those) spells work on 'If X is met, you can play it and do Y'. Minions and their Battlecries work other way: 'Summon X now, if possible you must do Y'.

Edit: Bassicly currently you would need to change all Demons into Summon: Demon spells.

Well that's one way you could do it - or Blizzard could just make it part of the requirements to play those cards.

I don't really think they should, but it would not be some huge production.

Watch out for Owls - they fit the the Hunter and Warlock paradigms quite well, and will probably start showing up if more Taunt/Deathrattle cards need to be neutralized.

As for the new cards - I suspect the Nerubian Egg will show up in a number of rush decks (regardless of hero), and the Undertaker probably will too (after all, both the Leper Gnome and the Loot Hoarder have deathrattles).