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Considering the way to beat zoo is to spend hundreds of dollars getting the cards and dust for pay2win warrior and druid decks, the answer is probably "never."
Always follow the money friend.
Since you can't lose rank at legend. It becomes a testing ground instead of the usual casual mode. Expect to see lots of weird stuff there.
Well, technically you could never test rank in casual since you can probably win with anything over there. But I agree, legend is like 20 players going for high ranks and 300 playing random decks. Although that might change as more and more people try to secure top 16 for the invites.
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
I like Zoo solely on the fact that I like to play Handlock, so I pray the people I play against do not mulligan properly when facing me. I think the Warlock class is strong mostly due to the fact of deck variation, and it's crazy good hero power. While I lose almost every time I fact Zoo as Handlock, and it gives me trouble as Control Warrior, I still think it's an okay deck. Definitely beatable. They have a glaring weakness in that they have no efficient way to deal with taunt or big creatures. Put both in your decks, and you win.
Zoo doesn't disappear at higher ranks. There are a lot of control warriors around rank 5 to legend, and Zoo destroys them (not 100% of time of course, but it's a favorable matchup). Zoo can also beat control druids if the draws are good enough and if they run The Black Knight.
But every deck past rank 5 can beat every other deck IMO, other than just ridiculously one sided shit like hunter vs. shaman.
In all card games, luck is always a part of it! The best and most balanced deck will loss on a bad draw. Even my own tried-and-tested decks who went up to level 5 in the rankings encounter some bad days and gets beaten by well drawn players! Let's just say it's part of the excitement!
WOW.... I must say this thread hurts a little.
First off @ Tony,
Its one thing to not enjoy playing against a certain deck, but your reasoning as to why things should be nerfed is not valid to say the least, Just cause Blizzard said they want to keep a casual feel to it??? What in that deck is op??? Nothing but the hero power. any aggro deck will thrive if they have a way to keep filling up the gas tank. Most aggro decks can be beat because you run out of gas, the problem here as many have pointed out is the fact that it is in a warlock class where you can draw 2 cards a turn for only 2 life, all the while your putting tremendous pressure on your opponent and he cant race you even though your dealing 2 to yourself a turn, he needs to trade. The deck doesent need to be banned, eery card game goes through a phase with a dominant deck archetype, it just happens. New cards will be introduced to help with this. The other examples of decks that got nerfed were not correct as well. Decks didnt get nerfed, card interactions were analyzed and deemed to OP for the game and made and unhealthy environment which in turned made it not a pleasurable experience for casual players. Decks dont get nerfed, Cards do and there are 0 and I mean 0 cards in zoo that have an argument to be banned.
Also you stated someone in the community isn't one of the best and is a cheater in MTG, well I dont know Reynad but I hear how good he is b many, aside from his skill it isn't right to put someone down in a rage of tantrum over someone explaining why they may use a particular deck. I happen to agree, it is hard if you do not own a lot of cards, havent put alot of money in this game and cant put as much time in as someone who has no life to play something compettively. and who is anyone here to say just cause you dont play enough you shouldn't be competitive? Not anyone here... I guess what im trying to say is it isnt kool to put someone down based on opinion or based on something they may have done in there past in another game that you prob know nothing about.
As a Game Designer guys I will say this... Zoo is one fo the best aggro decks I have ever seen because of the hero its in and ability to keep refilling your hand and board with threats, there si nothing OP about the deck. The deck might not be fun to play but as someone who has played TCG's on a professional level I would play a deck like zoo, not cause of any reason but the fact that its a winner, and at the end of the day I want to win. And so you all know I play every class and switch my decks based on the meta shifting that particular hour.
these swarm rush decks have one and only one weakness - early board clears. thats why zoo and to some extend murlocks are so powerful, you can swarm with mostly anything you draw in the first turns, but the opponent needs his aoe clears in the first few turns otherwise its likely a GG. the odds of drawing your aoe in mulligan + your first 3-4 draws arent exactly good...its only magnified by the fact, that it might be handlock and you might need early single target removals instead, so you already are flipping the coin on mulligan anyway.
There are actually a number of aggro decks that are unlikely to run out of steam. Divine Favor Paladin rush. Charge + Cult Leader rush. Etc. Warlock is just happens to be the most reliable of these.
I think the factor that pushes Zoo above the other decks is abusing Warlock class cards clearly balanced around discarding cards (Soulfire,Doomguard). Since aggro decks are expected to dump their hands quickly, these cards are often played without any discard penalty, which makes them way too good (0 mana 4 damage, 5 mana 5/7 charger). I think these cards need some balancing to result in always having a drawback, something like:
- Can't be played unless you are able to discard the required number of cards (similar to how some Battlecry minions can't be played without a valid target for their Battlecry).
OR
- Hero takes 2 damage for each card that can't be discarded (due to not having enough cards).
right lets let the deck be broken and say nothing
Twitch.tv/boozyfbaby
Least Favorite Cards of All Time: Jade Idol , Divine Favor , Counterspell , Resurrect ,Mecha'thun , Eternal Servitude ,
this deck is not nearly as bad as the hunter decks out there.
Like what exactly? I can't really think of one that works like that.
OT: I've lost 3 games in a row playing Zoo, just because I had terrible draw/enemy got decent counters (switched to control shammy now for ranks, but still using lock for grinding 100g). It's not unbeatable deck and certainly, it's pretty much impossible to balance, unless you want to nerf at least 10 neutral cards. Ever noticed 3 most successful Warlock decks are Handlock (Giants), MurLocks (mlgrrrrr) and Zoo (neutral-mix) and neither play Blood Imp, Succubus, Felguard, Pitlord, Infernal etc? Most Warlock minions sucks, have drawbacks bigger that 'gain' they give. Druid, Mage and Shaman all have way better spells to control fights too. You could argue they have weaker cards due to having 'best' Hero card ability but all it does is force decks to go for neutral minions, and Lock in fact might get boosted with next exp pack as well.
not battlecry minions, but, say, multi target spells like multishot or cleave, need certain ammount of targets before you can play them, even if taking out one target would be sufficient enough use.
I think soulfire and doomguard discarding cards from the top of the deck if your hand is otherwise empty sounds fair.
Playing ranked tonight I saw nothing but aggro. Hyper aggro to be exact. Nothing but players looking to just hit my face all night. There was no trading....no control....no thought other than "Hey I need to silence that taunt'. It is just I am going to smash your face as fast as I can and basically ignore everything you are doing. It wasn't just Warlock, but every class I came across. Paladin...Hunter...Rogue...I even ran into an aggro Druid. I am not sure what Blizz can do about it, but the current state of the game is quite infuriating and completely opposite to what Blizz has stated they want their game to be....and completely "unfun" to play against.
A couple nights ago I built the Zoo deck and could not lose.....not even if I made a mistake. It is completely mindless and so boring to play that I stopped using it.....it goes against everything I want this game to be.....and I honestly felt dirty playing with it.
Zoo is honestly not even that good right now. It's a little "slow" and not good enough at fighting for board control, believe it or not.
So pretty much you want players to only play hunters and warlocks.
Nice reasoning.
No, any rational player would want people to play whatever they want. That doesn't mean it will win big. This month it's Hunter and Zoo. Before that it was Handlock and Druid. Before that it was Mage and Murlocs. Metas change.
So, yeah. If you want to rank and play competitively you have to play the whole game and not just the parts you like. That means playing to/against meta. So yes, right now if you want to do well you play Hunter or Zoo or anti-Hunter/anti-Zoo. Next month it'll be something different. All this would be an issue (with Warlock/Hunter) if the meta were static. We haven't seen new cards since release, and it took months to figure out Hunter in it's current form. Even after the buff to UTH, few Hunters were playing what we commonly see here because of numerous reasons until recently. You assume that everyone knows everything, when in reality it's been proven time and time again that smart players will eventually find brand new ways to make piles of cards which people never saw before.
Basically you want to eliminate the meta element and put everyone on an equal footing. In all seriousness I know there are online poker/hearts games out there if that's really what you want.
WARNING: Opinions change with the meta!
Watch me play! Laugh at my mistakes!
Maybe. However, there are two problems. One, it would require adding 'If you are not able to discard hand, discard from deck instead' or something to that manner, and Blizz wants to keep description simple, to not repeat what Yu-Gi-Oh did. Second, is how often do you see Zoo going into late game with fatigue wars? It life taps itself out way before that, so change would do nothing to it, and only nerfed in very minor way Handlocks. And also, if you would require 2 card discard for Doomguard, he would simply be yet another never played Warlock minion, replaced with Argent Crusaders and Leeroy.
first issue isnt really an issue. it could just be bolded text Discard:X, just like taunt etc, and have its own description to the right of the card on mouseover like all other effects like this have, ie, charge has description of "can attack the same turn its played" or smth.
the second? oh noes, the card would actually have intended drawback, cry me a river. if the doomguard discars junk like vw and abusive, its still great value for the warlock, if ti discards argent and doa, well then its the warlocks stupidity. can shaman cheese overloads? no? then I dont see why warlock should be able to cheese discards.