Hearthpwn

Quote from tonyy0 »

your argument is null dude, i'm sorry, the thread is about the absurdness of the zoo list, not the fact that you can't craft your own cards. ive put money into the game and i still don't have the cards that are friendly to the list.. so since you havent spent any money, you MUST play it or hunter? no im sorry, there are many free-to-play decks that actually do require some skill and though process to play. (mage, paladin, etc.. there are lots..)

So what would your advice be to someone who hasn't played a ton of HS and doesn't have a ton of cards but wants to go for legendary?  Easiest and most cost efficient method is zoo or hunter.  How am I wrong?  Sure you can get legendary with anything if time and frustration is of no importantance to you.  Go look at reynad's stream tonight and see him stuck on rank 12 for hours with a F2P rogue he made.  And he is one of the best in the world, not some average player like someone who would just pick up the game.

Do you really think zoo is so popular because it's the top deck?  I'd say about 90% of the reason you see it so much is because it's affordable.

Someone who just picked the game up or that hasnt played much, shouldn't be expecting to get to Legend rank. People want to run before they even know how to walk, and then when thet trip they blame it on the game being P2W. The truth is, it isn't but high end cards sure do help. People need to start accepting the fact that when you are just starting  and your collection isn't all that great, you are going to lose many games and every win will be a struggle, but as you get better and get better cards you will hit your stride and you will be ready for ranked.

Quote from Kenzomx »

You cut one head, two more will take its place ..... Hail ZOO! Nah, but really just get used to the fact that Zoo is here to stay. I agree it is boring to see because everyone is running it, I want to see more cards, more archetypes and different variations.

but no one said anything about boring.... and i am not the only one that highly doubts it is "here to stay", judging on the previous nerfs of this game, this concept will get buried. you can take that to the bank

Other viable (but not quite so OP) free or cheap to play decks?

Warrior all-charge. If it has charge, put it in your deck (with the possible exception of the Arcane Golem or Reckless Rocketeer). If it's a Weapon (or creates a weapon), put it in your deck. If it does more damage than it costs mana, put it in your deck. Oh, and since this is still definitely an agro/beat down style deck, put in Leper Gnome as well.

Quote from nutweave »

So what would your advice be to someone who hasn't played a ton of HS and doesn't have a ton of cards but wants to go for legendary?  Easiest and most cost efficient method is zoo or hunter.  How am I wrong?  Sure you can get legendary with anything if time and frustration is of no importantance to you.  Go look at reynad's stream tonight and see him stuck on rank 12 for hours with a F2P rogue he made.  And he is one of the best in the world, not some average player like someone who would just pick up the game.

Do you really think zoo is so popular because it's the top deck?  I'd say about 90% of the reason you see it so much is because it's affordable.

reynad is one of the best in the world? reynad cheated and got banned from MTG and he plays gimmicky and BS decks, where are you even coming form here? the thread AGAIN, is about the fact that decks like the ORIGINAL miracle rogue, freeze mage, ORIGINAL UTH hunter, OTK warrior decks in the past got nerfed because of in blizzard's frazing, "not fun to play against" pls stop bringing up money or popular streamers up, it is off topic man, that is not what we are discussing here, i am sorry im not trying to be mean or BM but what don't you get? again, c'mon 

4/15/2014 2:17:44 AM

just maybe instead of watching "reynad" stream and try to mimmick his playing, hearthpwn, don't kick my robot, ihearthu, and various others put up meta reports, deck lists and all kinds of other material to keep up with and study the game in the current state. i can't lie, i haven't seen a single "featured" article on a zoo-warlock deck, let alone albeit the fact its "cheap to play". if memory serves correct, gnimsh played it in the last big tournament finals and won, and then as usualy it was adopted into a main archetype? i think people confuse tournament decks with ladder/casual decks alot of the time.. any of the recent big tournaments that we've seen, zoo-lock hasn't even been a contender.. all i'm saying is since blizzard has adopted this "WE NEED ALL OUR GAMES TO BE FOR CASUALS!>!@>!@#!@" attitude, and accounting for the various nerfs in the past to decks that could BARELY be considered overpowered by most, this zoo-lock has a target on its back the size of texas

@tonyy0 As I mentioned earlier, Zoolock works not because of the cards, but the hero power.  Blizzard has already said they consider the heroes to be balanced and they won't be changing them.  There's VERY few cards *required* to make Zoo work.  I've seen an amalgamation of 1 - 3 drop minions.  I actually run one that has Demolishers in it for instance.  You can't *nerf* it, but you can add counters.  Btw, I'm not a zoolock.  I like to run a multitude of classes and deck archetypes.

I'm almost positive Blizzard isn't going to just nerf the most popular deck. I'd be surprised if they nerfed/buffed any existing card that isn't extremely unhealthy for the game. 

Quote from mr_hosed »

@tonyy0 As I mentioned earlier, Zoolock works not because of the cards, but the hero power.  Blizzard has already said they consider the heroes to be balanced and they won't be changing them.  There's VERY few cards *required* to make Zoo work.  I've seen an amalgamation of 1 - 3 drop minions.  I actually run one that has Demolishers in it for instance.  You can't *nerf* it, but you can add counters.  Btw, I'm not a zoolock.  I like to run a multitude of classes and deck archetypes.

yeah totally i agree, i was just saying in the context of their previous nerfs, this deck is right alongside the previous decks/concepts/cards they have nerfed in the past, i totally agree with adding maybe 1 or 2 aoe-dolling neutral cards, or just SOMETHING, ANYTHING because i honestly think compared to the changes in the past this list is by FAR the worst, and by worst i mean "most" "fixable". did they not expect someone to eventually come along and just throw every 1/2/3 drop in the game into their deck and see how it fares? and it fares well, very well.

It's not just any 1/2/3 drops.  A zoo deck that does not have any Divine Shield or +1 Health cards is a sitting duck for AoE (especially Swipe).

Quote from Triskaidekaphilia »

It's not just any 1/2/3 drops.  A zoo deck that does not have any Divine Shield or +1 Health cards is a sitting duck for AoE (especially Swipe).

im pretty sure the "original" version only played argent squires ...

I thought it had Argent Squire and Young Priestess. In any case, Argent Squire is still Divine Shield.

Once Naxxramus comes out, I expect there will be I split in the Zoos between those that run Young Priestess, and those that run the Nerubian Egg (since both are anti-AoE cards).

The problem with nerfing zoo is that it's based on one of the core design philosophies of Hearthstone: cheaper cards get more stats per point of mana. No matter what happens, Warlock will always be better at placing cheap cards than anyone else, which means it will always be home to one of the more competitive rush decks.

Zoo seems fun to play against to me, the only thing I dislike playing against are Priest and Hunter. In the end it's not a matter of overpowered or not, it's that it's just not fun playing against Hunters or Priests, they do a lot of things that are more unfun than battling a bunch of minions.

As far as I'm concerned, Blizzard has already stated they wanted this game to be about minions battling each other and Zoo decks do exactly that. They battle for board control. The only reason Zoo works so well on Warlock specifically is because they draw cards with their Hero power to offset, but they already have had nerfs to them and Zoo isn't exactly unstoppable. Zoo doesn't stop you from dropping minions on the board.

Look at Priest where they literally are thieves. They steal cards from your deck, your hand, your board. Their class cards individually are very powerful yet they synergize in awkward ways and honestly Priest are like all over the place in theme. I hate them as a class and I've spent plenty of time playing them. Same with Hunters where no matter how you build them, UtH will always be an issue and it punishes you for dropping minions which can very easily be taken care of by the Hunter. I honestly preferred fighting OTK Hunter as opposed to this new style of hunter.

Quote from Siky »

Zoo seems fun to play against to me, the only thing I dislike playing against are Priest and Hunter. In the end it's not a matter of overpowered or not, it's that it's just not fun playing against Hunters or Priests, they do a lot of things that are more unfun than battling a bunch of minions.

As far as I'm concerned, Blizzard has already stated they wanted this game to be about minions battling each other and Zoo decks do exactly that. They battle for board control. The only reason Zoo works so well on Warlock specifically is because they draw cards with their Hero power to offset, but they already have had nerfs to them and Zoo isn't exactly unstoppable. Zoo doesn't stop you from dropping minions on the board.

Look at Priest where they literally are thieves. They steal cards from your deck, your hand, your board. Their class cards individually are very powerful yet they synergize in awkward ways and honestly Priest are like all over the place in theme. I hate them as a class and I've spent plenty of time playing them. Same with Hunters where no matter how you build them, UtH will always be an issue and it punishes you for dropping minions which can very easily be taken care of by the Hunter. I honestly preferred fighting OTK Hunter as opposed to this new style of hunter.

Just out of curiosity. May I know what "this new style of hunter" refers to? The mid range Hunter? That's a more clever play style than the mindless face-charge Huntard.

I believe Siky is referring to the fact that UtH now creates multiple 1/1 charge minions instead of being a spell that granted all Beasts +1 attack and Charge.

EDIT: As an example - a hand of UtH, Stonetusk Boar, Timber Wolf x2, Alpha Wolf x2, and a Young Dragonhawk would cost 7 mana and produce 33 damage.

I like facing Zoo. Easy to know what they are going to do and game is over quickly!

Zoo is just play all you have in your hand whenever you can, if somebody enjoy only the win then its perfect, because you rarely have to think what to do next and win a lot. I think playing control is the real bread and butter in this game, where you have to think every step you make. Personally i dont like to play against Zoo, but i dont think its necessary to nerf. Zoo is only good against weak aoe ( with 2-3 health minions and divine shields) so its a hard matchup for warriors with no taunts and whirlwind aoe (bloodmage can help a lot against zoo) . I play handlock till rank 5 and beat Zoo most of the time with a few taunts and Hellfire, but from rank five you encounter very nice control decks, so for me thats the point where i start enjoying constructed with control type decks:) But ofc Zoo is very good for grinding ( short games, high win rate, cheap deck)

Quote from Kenzomx »

Someone who just picked the game up or that hasnt played much, shouldn't be expecting to get to Legend rank. People want to run before they even know how to walk, and then when thet trip they blame it on the game being P2W. The truth is, it isn't but high end cards sure do help. People need to start accepting the fact that when you are just starting  and your collection isn't all that great, you are going to lose many games and every win will be a struggle, but as you get better and get better cards you will hit your stride and you will be ready for ranked.

Totally agree with this man. Imagine if you want to start to play ordinary TCG, you bought like 2 packs and you expect to be top player with your poor card collection? Uh-uh, Its just doesn't work like that. You better put in work to get some expensive cards you want so you can compete for top ranks. Alot of people, including me, didn't spent a penny on HS, yet have most of the top tier legendaries. I've got Cairne, Yzera, Alex, Rag, Cenarius and epics for decks I wanted to play with. Got them all stricktly through arena runs and some luck.

Zoo deck is disgusting because of several reasons:

1) It's really cheap and almost every new player can afford it

2) The deck plays itself. You don't need to be mastermind to tap every turn and hit all your minions to the face while they are protected behind the annoying 1 mana taunts. No mindgames or gameplan needed.

3) It's really effective in constructed. Hundreds of people have already reached high or legend ranks with it without any troubles.

Quintessence of those reasons makes it perfect for a new player who don't know alot about the game but want to PWN and PEW-PEW. The game is basically encourages new players to play warlock or hunter.

I had a conversation with my friend who started to play the game recently. I asked him "How's your constructed progress?" and he replied "Not  good, because I have no good cards yet for the deck I want, so I have to play Zoo because it's cheap and easy". This kind of mindset is just not right... You don't have to play the deck if you really don't want to, you can always go grind some packs, try to get good at arena

As a note to everyone:
Mind your words, be nice to each other, and be careful with your formatting. Avoid multiquotes and shorten whereever you can.
Therefore some posts were deleted.

Thank you and be nice :)

Am I the only person in the game that doesn't know how to play Zoo? c'mon i'm not stupid, i reached rank 9 with a druid deck with no legendaries but with zoo i think i can't even get 50% wins. And i don't face that many zoo decks either. i can't see why people say its overpowered. Its faster to reach legend with it because its faster to play, not because its better i think. Any Shaman or hunter deck makes zoo cry, its not like they are invincible.

Zoo has the ability to be very Slotable(Customization), no 2 Zoo decks are alike(At high Level play) they are like snow flakes. They will always run flame imp voidwalker etc. but they are room for for a lot of replacements and I would say that you can not just nerf one or two cards and call it a day. The Hero power is what gives this deck steam. Nerfing the hero power would result in Handlock being weaker and I believe blizzard loves the ideas of synergies within decks, Handlock is the only one as of now. 

I believe there will no be a nerf and I don not thing one is needed.