I play Magic since 1997, it is a very long time, HS for me is far better because of mana system, how many horrible games you play in magic only because you not draw more lands after start with a decent first hand? How many games you lost because draw four or five lands in late game?
And for the final argument, HS never be a "pay-to-win" card game, I am a brazilian, have a time in the past where we only can get Magic cards from a terrible and monopolized store, the top cards for standard are absurd expensive and who don't have a lot of money to expand with a card game never have a competitive deck, with HS, a game I never need to spend a cent, I have the oportunity to have any card.
If I could afford to play Magic, then I would. It is a much more interesting game, the simple act of being able to 'respond' to cards played the opponent makes it infinitely more complicated. HS is however a fun and light game that we play regularly at our house. Its cheap and accessible, which are the two largest issues of MTG. Both are great games in their own ways.
I play Magic since 1997, it is a very long time, HS for me is far better because of mana system, how many horrible games you play in magic only because you not draw more lands after start with a decent first hand? How many games you lost because draw four or five lands in late game?
And for the final argument, HS never be a "pay-to-win" card game, I am a brazilian, have a time in the past where we only can get Magic cards from a terrible and monopolized store, the top cards for standard are absurd expensive and who don't have a lot of money to expand with a card game never have a competitive deck, with HS, a game I never need to spend a cent, I have the oportunity to have any card.
PS: Sorry for my bad english, is not my language.
I do agree about the mana system, Hearthstones is better hands down. Although it obviates one great thing about magics, which is magics opportunity to mix mana types or the equivalent would be hearthstone classes. but hearthstones completely eliminating being mana screwed is pretty awesome.
MtG is always going to be more complex because you have chances to react during your opponent's turn. I feel like HS favors trading (being able to trade into whatever creature you want) where MtG favors spot removal.
I don't think HS has significantly more rng than MtG. Not having lands significantly lowers hearthstone's rng (there's no way to get a pocket of lands or none of your lands, you can be screwed by not getting your curve but magic has that same possibility PLUS having to deal with lands), but also has powerful rng effects (compared to mtg's delver like rng), I feel like it balances out.
Yugioh has no "mana" system and all the cards are balanced around Card advantage and burst damage and has a boring power creep. However, I haven't touched the game since 2006 so I honestly have no idea what it looks like today, just based on the direction it was heading when I quit and what people tell me today.
Saw this again after a long while. I apologise for bumping but I think I might add on my previous point of view.
So I'm a big fan of the mana system. I think it is quite essential to ensure that the game doesn't go off into a direction where you can spam the board on turn 1. Mana forces you to build your deck in accordance to its availability-ie you can't have all 10 drops because you'll have nothing else to play for the first 9 turns of the game. This is my first strike against YuGiOh. Im sure the level system was an attempt to create some kind of curve but last time I checked special summoning has completely taken over and levels have ceased to mean anything.
But I must say I think YuGiOh's concept of a side deck is pretty cool. It allows you to always have your wincons at the ready so you can't get screwed over by dead draws ( not too much anyways). However, it can be argued that it takes away from the deckbuilding element of making your draws more consistent etc.
Personally I prefer the land system over the mana system in Hearthstone, simply because it adds another dimension of strategy both in gameplay and deckbuilding. When building a deck-especially when you're involving 3 or more colours- the land base becomes very critical as you don't want to be colour screwed. This forces you to focus on how much of each kind of mana you'll need and how you'll provide that. Meanwhile in gameplay, land-destruction is a valid strategy to lock down your opponent (although if you do that you'll have no friends after a few games).
Last thing, I really missed the reaction cards-instants and traps-in Hearthstone. Again I think they add another layer of strategy, like not playing on curve and leaving mana open to react to opponent actions.
There are three skills required to play card games well:
1. Evaluation, i.e. determining how much value a card gives by being played. Hearthstone has more of this than Magic, due to more cards being played (instead of land), so your ability to evaluate is tested more often. There's also the hero power. Magic has Planeswalkers, though.
2. Creativity, i.e. finding ways to play cards in unique ways. Magic excels in this due to having cards that have greater effects and often more text/choices on cards.
3. Mind games, i.e. altering your play due to what your opponent will (be able to) do. Although not a big part of these kind of card games (there's not many ways to alter your hidden information), Hearthstone trumps Magic because cards are more interactive (creatures can attack creatures) and because the fixed mana system means you and your opponent are more likely to play in 'predictable' ways.
A lot of folks focus on the creativity aspect, probably because the CCG genre does it better than any other type of game. But if you're looking for a game that tests your ability to play a game, they're both equal. Besides, both games really have no limit as to how much you can get good at them, so you should instead simply ask yourself which game has you having a better time.
As for the Kibler example: as far as I know, he practices for tournaments for both games just as much.
I made an account just to dismiss this person, i see he is prevalent on many posts concerning HS vs mtg and is pretty biased towards HS, i'm not sure i believe this person when he says he has played mtg for so long. Let me evaluate.
1. Constantly mentions land as a problem with mtg, for example when he talks about card evaluation. Firstly, lands need to be evaluated a lot, I'm not sure if you only played mono colored mtg decks or maybe you played pokemon thinking you were playing mtg... Playing the correct land on the correct turns is crucial in mtg, plus a lot of lands come with abilities. Next, "more cards being played" Again, i am not sure which games you are playing, it's possible to play over 100 cards in mtg in a single turn, lol, sure this doesn't happen often but the fact is that it can happen, in many many games though a player will player 3-4 cards in a single turn OFTEN. Finally, in HS there really isn't much evaluation because of the simple fact that when you play on curve you end up playing 1 sometimes 2 cards per turn and quickly run out of a hand with very limited ways to draw more cards unless you pull a combo which is rare since you would need certain minions to survive an entire turn. Also, lands are important to allow new players to enjoy the game with odd wins and is a fundamental design in mtg that makes the game better, not worse.
2. Creativity, yes you are right, magic does excel at this, but more than you care to explain... The amount of combos in mtg is baffling and you need to be creative to play your combos or even single cards in a way that deals with your opponents plays, card count, and untapped land (again evaluation due to land) there is nothing in hearthstone to evaluate because nobody plays anything in each others turns, the only thing you need to evaluate is whats on the board, sure your opponent may have some removal or whatever card you are thinking in their hand but that is just chance, and we all know there is more again to evaluate in magic in terms of card pool and possibilities.
3. Mind games, firstly, i'm not sure again if you only play magic online. In hearthstone, you cannot even play somebody face to face, meaning the whole "mind games" thing already flies out the window... sure it's still there but we all know poker is better played in real life because of the mind game aspect of it, not being able to play face to face is huge and hearthstone wouldn't be fun face to face because there is no interaction in your opponents turn, you simply play your cards do your moves and then wait for them to have their turn which leads me to my next point. If you seriously think HS has more mind games than mtg i have no idea what game you are playing again... After you're done evaluating everything in mtg and start deciding what cards you are going to play if you're a good mtg player you will consider things like bait cards especially against control players, the other player is going to choose whether they think you're just holding something back or counter / kill that card. Also you seem to be unfamiliar to mtg "phases", people will bluff with main phase 1 attacks etc in order for you to spend your removal before playing something bigger and vice versa, there is countless more examples i can give to prove why magic has far far far more in depth and stressful mind games then HS ever will due to the sole fact of you ~cannot~ play cards on opponents turns. - In magic you can often leave some land untapped and make your opponent anticipate certain cards will be played on their turn to kill attackers or counter spells / abilities and therefore that opponent may play completely differently to how they would want to if your land was tapped etc etc etc etc etc the bluffing in mtg is on par with bluffing in poker.
4. The biggest difference between mtg and HS is actually the fact in one you can play cards whenever you want and the other you can only do so on your own turn, along with the way combat works which again destroys all 3 of your arguments, let me explain why. In HS YOU choose where your damage goes, there is no mind games here there is a sprinkle of evaluation but you would have to be pretty bad to make the wrong decisions and this is why we see in hearthstone combat steps happen extremely quickly. In magic, i already mentioned the mind game part of it earlier, you don't decide anything apart from who you attack with and whether it's directed at the player or a plane walker and because of this it is very very difficult to make the right calls and you will often see players making the wrong moves because of anticipation of what their opponent might do, there are cards in magic that only destroy attackers or blockers so again ~mind games~ We see players in magic deciding what to attack with and block with for a long time and there is countless reasons for this, board states in magic are far far more complex due to the fact you do not choose who blocks, you can only ~evaluate~ and work out how the opponent may block and you will often be surprised. Just watch a game of magic where you can see both hands in a format you understand thoroughly and then do the same for hearthstone, you will see all the right moves because you can see both hands and 90% of the time HS players will make the moves on your mind where in magic you will see easy wins like simply attacking with 3 creatures instead of 2 and that player will not make the right call resulting in them losing or vice versa.
On a side note : i spend my time on hearthstone when i'm on the bus, train or a passenger in a car and play magic when i'm ready to mentally fight someone for over an hour (since most players want best out of 3 in order to use their sideboards which again is filled with mindgames since you can completely switch gears of your deck to confuse your opponent in the next round), magic is a game that makes fully grown business men crumble with a red face in temptation, anticipation and... well... rage.
Sorry if i sound like an ass, but come on.... lets be real here...
Since Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG are TCG's, they have value beyond the pure gameplay, there is a huge fanbase who just love to collect the cards, build non-meta decks and such.
Yu-Gi-Oh meta gameplay right now is literally just two opponents playing a turn of solitaire each, search, synchro/xyz summon, repeat. Haven't played too Magic so can't really tell about what's going on there right now.
But in all honestly, Hearthstone compared to Magic/YGO is like comparing tic-tac-toe to chess.
MTG is more complex. Its complexity is precisely why it fails as a a viable virtual option. Having all the different phases makes the game too slow to be played online. From what I've heard from Yugioh, the power creep has really harmed the game.
1. Yugioh: Yugi-oh is very combo based, you must order things properly and bait removal/ negation if you want to summon a powerful board, and by now all the cards are basically text books with a lot, and i mean a lot of effects each, sometimes you'll even see a monster and assume your opponent will do X thing with it to watch in awe how he/she uses an effect you didn't even know that monster had.
2: Magic is simpler than yugioh, don't fret magic players simpler doesn't mean that they can't have an equal amounth of depth, magic is simpler because the effects and resource system are straightforward, typified, normalized and classified, and yes order makes things a lot easier to understand, magic is more of a resource managing game and if you add the stack mechanics it can lead to a lot of decision making,
3. Chargestone: if they don't nerf charge, they can't print complex effects, that simple, it's really easy to understand effects will at most occupy two lines and there are a lot of inconsistencies, and your turn being a sacred temple where nothing can happen and your opponent can't react to it makes rng mandatory in the game otherwise player A would jsut get to see a movie of player B doing his own stuff and dominating without player A being able to do anything, let's be honest here as soon as someone in Yugioh or magic the agthering sees a card like OG warsong commander, crystal core or Jade Idol being played an effect that counterspells or negates its activation and destroys the card will be played, well, you can't do that in hearthstone, you can't even choose what to counterspell with counterspell.
Edit: Honorable mentions; Score's dbz tcg and panini's Dbz tcg, they basically use almost the same mechanics (well panini's is a reboot of score's tcg with some major rule changes to deck building) and have a LOT and i mean a LOT of depth and decision making in them, imho this is one of the more complex card games in the market without overdoing it with complexity (i'm looking at you Jyhad and LOTR), besides the game being combat based instead of unit based leads to a lot of interactivity and decision making
I loved Yu-gi-oh back in the days before all this nonsense with synchro, xyz and pendulum - Those 3 things just made the game too fast paste and easy, so every damn fool could play the game. God damn pendulum can kill you in one turn - What is the fun in that?
1. Yugioh: Yugi-oh is very combo based, you must order things properly and bait removal/ negation if you want to summon a powerful board, and by now all the cards are basically text books with a lot, and i mean a lot of effects each, sometimes you'll even see a monster and assume your opponent will do X thing with it to watch in awe how he/she uses an effect you didn't even know that monster had.
2: Magic is simpler than yugioh, don't fret magic players simpler doesn't mean that they can't have an equal amounth of depth, magic is simpler because the effects and resource system are straightforward, typified, normalized and classified, and yes order makes things a lot easier to understand, magic is more of a resource managing game and if you add the stack mechanics it can lead to a lot of decision making,
3. Chargestone: if they don't nerf charge, they can't print complex effects, that simple, it's really easy to understand effects will at msot occupy two lines and there are a lot of inconsistencies, and your turn being a sacred temple where nothing can happen and your opponent can't react to it makes rng mandatory in the game otherwise player A would jsut get to see a movie of player B doing his own stuff and dominating without player A being able to do anything, let's be honest here as soon as someone in Yugioh or magic the agthering sees a card like OG warsong commander, crystal core or Jade Idol being played an effect that counterspells or negates its activation and destroys the card will be played, well, you can't do that in hearthstone, you can't even choose what to counterspell with counterspell.
Jesus man, you really need to learn to separate sentences. Literally unreadable.
I'm not going to say nothing about Yu-gi-oh because I never played it.
But for the other two MTG is way more complex than Hearthstone. For me, is not even open to discussion.
But be way simpler and easier doesn't make hearthstone a bad game, it is his strength after all.
I like hearthstone because it doesn't have ftk's, first turn kills.
I like everything digital and special animation effects. So HS is better for me, that's all. =]
I play Magic since 1997, it is a very long time, HS for me is far better because of mana system, how many horrible games you play in magic only because you not draw more lands after start with a decent first hand? How many games you lost because draw four or five lands in late game?
And for the final argument, HS never be a "pay-to-win" card game, I am a brazilian, have a time in the past where we only can get Magic cards from a terrible and monopolized store, the top cards for standard are absurd expensive and who don't have a lot of money to expand with a card game never have a competitive deck, with HS, a game I never need to spend a cent, I have the oportunity to have any card.
PS: Sorry for my bad english, is not my language.
If I could afford to play Magic, then I would. It is a much more interesting game, the simple act of being able to 'respond' to cards played the opponent makes it infinitely more complicated. HS is however a fun and light game that we play regularly at our house. Its cheap and accessible, which are the two largest issues of MTG. Both are great games in their own ways.
MtG is always going to be more complex because you have chances to react during your opponent's turn. I feel like HS favors trading (being able to trade into whatever creature you want) where MtG favors spot removal.
I don't think HS has significantly more rng than MtG. Not having lands significantly lowers hearthstone's rng (there's no way to get a pocket of lands or none of your lands, you can be screwed by not getting your curve but magic has that same possibility PLUS having to deal with lands), but also has powerful rng effects (compared to mtg's delver like rng), I feel like it balances out.
Yugioh has no "mana" system and all the cards are balanced around Card advantage and burst damage and has a boring power creep. However, I haven't touched the game since 2006 so I honestly have no idea what it looks like today, just based on the direction it was heading when I quit and what people tell me today.
Saw this again after a long while. I apologise for bumping but I think I might add on my previous point of view.
So I'm a big fan of the mana system. I think it is quite essential to ensure that the game doesn't go off into a direction where you can spam the board on turn 1. Mana forces you to build your deck in accordance to its availability-ie you can't have all 10 drops because you'll have nothing else to play for the first 9 turns of the game. This is my first strike against YuGiOh. Im sure the level system was an attempt to create some kind of curve but last time I checked special summoning has completely taken over and levels have ceased to mean anything.
But I must say I think YuGiOh's concept of a side deck is pretty cool. It allows you to always have your wincons at the ready so you can't get screwed over by dead draws ( not too much anyways). However, it can be argued that it takes away from the deckbuilding element of making your draws more consistent etc.
Personally I prefer the land system over the mana system in Hearthstone, simply because it adds another dimension of strategy both in gameplay and deckbuilding. When building a deck-especially when you're involving 3 or more colours- the land base becomes very critical as you don't want to be colour screwed. This forces you to focus on how much of each kind of mana you'll need and how you'll provide that. Meanwhile in gameplay, land-destruction is a valid strategy to lock down your opponent (although if you do that you'll have no friends after a few games).
Last thing, I really missed the reaction cards-instants and traps-in Hearthstone. Again I think they add another layer of strategy, like not playing on curve and leaving mana open to react to opponent actions.
I'm Playing:
Evenlock and Mill Rogue in Wild HS,
Azami Control in EDH
Current Warframe Main: Mesa Prime
I think we're legally allowed to shoot people who necro these fucking threads.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Since Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG are TCG's, they have value beyond the pure gameplay, there is a huge fanbase who just love to collect the cards, build non-meta decks and such.
Yu-Gi-Oh meta gameplay right now is literally just two opponents playing a turn of solitaire each, search, synchro/xyz summon, repeat. Haven't played too Magic so can't really tell about what's going on there right now.
But in all honestly, Hearthstone compared to Magic/YGO is like comparing tic-tac-toe to chess.
MTG is more complex. Its complexity is precisely why it fails as a a viable virtual option. Having all the different phases makes the game too slow to be played online. From what I've heard from Yugioh, the power creep has really harmed the game.
Wait, yu-gi-oh is still relevant?
Yeah after synchro introduced yugioh is pretty much dead I mean it is overwhelmingly op mechanic there is no reason anymore to play any other decks.
in order for most complex to simplest
1. Yugioh: Yugi-oh is very combo based, you must order things properly and bait removal/ negation if you want to summon a powerful board, and by now all the cards are basically text books with a lot, and i mean a lot of effects each, sometimes you'll even see a monster and assume your opponent will do X thing with it to watch in awe how he/she uses an effect you didn't even know that monster had.
2: Magic is simpler than yugioh, don't fret magic players simpler doesn't mean that they can't have an equal amounth of depth, magic is simpler because the effects and resource system are straightforward, typified, normalized and classified, and yes order makes things a lot easier to understand, magic is more of a resource managing game and if you add the stack mechanics it can lead to a lot of decision making,
3. Chargestone: if they don't nerf charge, they can't print complex effects, that simple, it's really easy to understand effects will at most occupy two lines and there are a lot of inconsistencies, and your turn being a sacred temple where nothing can happen and your opponent can't react to it makes rng mandatory in the game otherwise player A would jsut get to see a movie of player B doing his own stuff and dominating without player A being able to do anything, let's be honest here as soon as someone in Yugioh or magic the agthering sees a card like OG warsong commander, crystal core or Jade Idol being played an effect that counterspells or negates its activation and destroys the card will be played, well, you can't do that in hearthstone, you can't even choose what to counterspell with counterspell.
Edit: Honorable mentions; Score's dbz tcg and panini's Dbz tcg, they basically use almost the same mechanics (well panini's is a reboot of score's tcg with some major rule changes to deck building) and have a LOT and i mean a LOT of depth and decision making in them, imho this is one of the more complex card games in the market without overdoing it with complexity (i'm looking at you Jyhad and LOTR), besides the game being combat based instead of unit based leads to a lot of interactivity and decision making
I loved Yu-gi-oh back in the days before all this nonsense with synchro, xyz and pendulum - Those 3 things just made the game too fast paste and easy, so every damn fool could play the game. God damn pendulum can kill you in one turn - What is the fun in that?
I think the better comparison to MAGIC THE GATHERING and Yugioh is WoW TCG not Hearthstone.
Death to all who oppose the Horde!