I know it is controversial, but I really don't think there is cancer deck in Hearthstone.
People usually call Face decks cancerous because they lack interaction and losing to one is very frusrating. But the fact is, face deck is never OP and a good player can manage to handle them in long run because he can interact with this type of deck even without interaction from the opponent.
We feel frustrated because in some games it seems that no matter what we do, we still lose. But this could happen in any kinds of games or matches. So personally I don't hate face deck but just dislike player playing face deck mindlessly. It's indeed cancerous to think any decks is cancerous, because once this occupies your mind, you are giving excuse to yourself that your interaction with this type of deck is useless. A good player never give excuses, they give solution.
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I think that often it is not the decl that is cancerous but the player who pilots it... Yesterday i ein against a face shaman who never tradet... Even when i got my murloc Knight out in t4... The snowball lost him the game... So stupid to never trade
I bet you play facehunter or secret paladin... or you are at rank 20-15 where everybody is playing.. something?
Cancerous decks are decks where you go face everytime and let your enemy try to defend himself.. this requires absolutely no skill and no brain. If you always play very lategame decks like me and you the drawgods arent on your side you are fucked and can do nothing against it. This is no fun game and this is why its cancerous...
BTW we don't really need such a thread again..
I'm not here to defend aggro decks, but you are so wrong...
To make it clear: it is a card game where everybody's goal is to win the games using the same card pool. And if a good player with "skill and brain" (as you said) wants to play a control deck, then he/she has to tech against the different matchups and difficulties. There are so many possibilities for every class to counter face decks (taunts, heals, board clears, Reno Jackson, etc.), name the "very lategame deck" you are palying and we can advise you some remedies against those "drawgods that aren't on your side". So stop whining and learn to play!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
12 wins in ArenA with: Mage and Paladin, first time legend with Rogue
There are no cancer decks, because its not the decks fault, its the games design and function that creates all the issues. The randomness of card draw, the randomness generated by any number of effects, the lack of direct interaction, and perfect mana every games just means that most games are much more determined by the RNG factors of cards drawn and random effects much more drastically than some people want to admit. Every deck has to be built under a number of conditions and each deck has strengths and weaknesses, especially against certain classes and archtypes, which then adds an additional layer of RNG. What am I going to queue into? You could run into favored match ups and hit a huge win streak right to legend or you could hit a rash of bad match ups, change decks based on what you were seeing and then instantly run into the decks you wanted to face with your previous deck and lose more games. The fact that each game is just 1 game and not a set also makes this seem much more frustrating because so many times you wish you could just get your win back from the person you just lost to but you have no real way of that happening. The games you win often don't make you feel like a good player but more like the luckier of the 2 and many games you lose you feel the same way about. The skill cap is there, playing well does help, but it doesn't win more games than luck.
I bet you play facehunter or secret paladin... or you are at rank 20-15 where everybody is playing.. something?
Cancerous decks are decks where you go face everytime and let your enemy try to defend himself.. this requires absolutely no skill and no brain. If you always play very lategame decks like me and you the drawgods arent on your side you are fucked and can do nothing against it. This is no fun game and this is why its cancerous...
BTW we don't really need such a thread again..
So stop whining and learn to play!
This.
Mr. Nais_One just showed us the perfect example that there are no cancer decks, only cancerous ppl with limited mental capacity.
I bet you play facehunter or secret paladin... or you are at rank 20-15 where everybody is playing.. something?
Cancerous decks are decks where you go face everytime and let your enemy try to defend himself.. this requires absolutely no skill and no brain. If you always play very lategame decks like me and you the drawgods arent on your side you are fucked and can do nothing against it. This is no fun game and this is why its cancerous...
BTW we don't really need such a thread again..
I am sorry but you are totally wrong. I play mainly control but only play face decks sometimes. Even when I play face decks, I trade quite a lot but still manage to win. Well, as for rank, I am currently at rank 10 with 60-70% win rate at current ladder.
BUT this thread is not about me.
As for your late-games decks theory, I think you are wrong about Face deck. You KNOW there are face decks in Hearthstone world, and you play late-game decks. Are you implying that everyone should play late-game decks so that everyone can happily interacting with each other in late games? As a Hearthstone player, you should think about the game and prepare to fight with any kinds of decks.
Your comment sounds like every one should put themselves in your shoes and play non-aggro deck. Aggro deck is no sin or OP, it is just one type of archetypes. They lose to many types of decks. It's not about deck type but how a player pilots a deck.
People complain about face deck and says it is no fun because they cannot handle it properly. This type of player is also cancerous too. Cos they are as mindless or skill-less as what they are complaining.
The last truly cancerous deck was Undertaker hunter. If he gets a good draw, you could do absolutely nothing but see your hp go to 0 by T5. All other decks that salty people call cancerous have a goal - to burst down your opponent before he can establish big enough board presence. But the difference here is that there are counters even to god starts. Tech Revenge for warrior/ Reno decks /increased number of good 1 drops for slower decks, anyone? Also should a face deck have a bad starting hand, it almost never wins.
Oh and one more thing, I play face shaman from time to time. Got around 100 wins with it and in my experience, I would have won many more games, if I made some smart trades between going to face. So... currently face decks is not cancer.
Aggro player has almost same WR as control player but wins faster, doesn't require any skills and doesn't need to tech their decks. Why?
Duration of a game is not a valid argument against aggro player.
If one day there is a deck type (let's call it ultra-control) which can be played for 1 hour and have the same win rate as control player, would you say normal control is cancer because it lasts just for 20-30 mins?
By the way, Hearthstone is not decided as tech-card exclusive game. You can create any deck you like. As long as player enjoy playing, what's the point of complaining others playing decks they like?
As I said before, a real Hearthstone player should KNOW VERY WELL that he would encounter any types of deck. If you can only play with and handle control players and complain about aggro players as being fast and 'skill-less' but lose against them, that's not the problem of those player, but the person who mourn about it.
Hearthstone community would only become healthier if people have the proper mentality of leveling up their skills, but not finding excuse and putting blames on others of their defeat of certain deck types.
Aggro player has almost same WR as control player but wins faster, doesn't require any skills and doesn't need to tech their decks. Why?
Cuz he uses fast deck obv.
Lets look at MTGO - there, u have 25 minutes to get 2 wins out of 3 games, and time is ticking every second when that 'ur turn' button is active. And dont forget u must click that OK button every time when opponent plays ANY card (or choose something else). If u lose ur 25 mins - u lose the match.
HS is a game with a lot of 70/30 matchups, I think you'd see less complaints if the overall design geared us more into something like 60/40 being the norm (which I realize will not happen).
I also don't like decks that are powerful even if you misplay. Most aggro decks are not like that, it's true they are often simple to play - but misplay can cost you alot. Some other types of decks in HS right now are very powerful even if you play like a turd, I don't think that is good.
What OP says is obvious to any smart person. The rest will either not read this thread or not understand it, so why bother.
The majority of people is terrible at whatever they're doing. Of those, again the majority either don't realise it (dunning-kruger-effect) or they realise it but blame others, the environment or something else for it.
That's how whine threads and terms like "cancer" or "cheap" are created.
You can create any deck you like. What's the point of complaining others playing decks they like?
As I said before, a real Hearthstone player should KNOW VERY WELL that he would encounter any types of deck.
Hearthstone community would only become healthier if people have the proper mentality of leveling up their skills, but not finding excuse and putting blames on others of their defeat of certain deck types.
These are the keywords imo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
12 wins in ArenA with: Mage and Paladin, first time legend with Rogue
I think that often it is not the decl that is cancerous but the player who pilots it... Yesterday i ein against a face shaman who never tradet... Even when i got my murloc Knight out in t4... The snowball lost him the game... So stupid to never trade
OK.. someone is bad at the game... why does it irk you so much?
I think the main problem people have ( And that is extremely legit in my eyes ) with "cancer" decks ( Face hunter, secret paladin... ) is that these maintain roughly the same winrate as roughly any other deck ( More in secret paladin's case ) while demanding far less skill in most cases.
Losing isn't a problem when you know you've played wrong or your opponent did that insane play that you wouldn't have done yourself, but when you know your opponent barely had to think to defeat you even though you did no major mistake if any ( The famous cases of games, one in a tournament, being lost without the losing player having had the chance to play a card ), it does become a very heavy flaw of the game.
I agree with the op and the majority of posters by the look of it. I think that aggro/face decks are perfectly beatable and necessary for the game. I mainly play control, but an all control meta would be boring. With most of my decks I do well against face decks, we all have decks we dislike, for me the worst are secret paladin, freeze mage and mech mage, but I don't think they should be nerfed. Well, maybe secret paladin, a little, but if I'm playing control priest I don't think that because I own SP decks! Also, if facehunter wasn't around then SP decks would be even more powerful. The same goes for midrange hunter owning aggro shaman. Decks need counters.
I usually enjoy playing against decks like face hunter, it's a different challenge, variety is great. The only thing I would say, what Blue Banana might have been refering to, is that the way the ladder works does encourage face decks for those who want to rank up quickly. This can make ranked games tedious sometimes, although at the moment the meta where I am is wonderfully varied! Oh yeah, and aggro decks usually are pretty brain dead way to play, but I don't complain or cry nerf, I just pity people who play them ;) Except new players looking for a cheap deck, which is fair enough.
I think the main problem people have ( And that is extremely legit in my eyes ) with "cancer" decks ( Face hunter, secret paladin... ) is that these maintain roughly the same winrate as roughly any other deck ( More in secret paladin's case ) while demanding far less skill in most cases.
Losing isn't a problem when you know you've played wrong or your opponent did that insane play that you wouldn't have done yourself, but when you know your opponent barely had to think to defeat you even though you did no major mistake if any ( The famous cases of games, one in a tournament, being lost without the losing player having had the chance to play a card ), it does become a very heavy flaw of the game.
No offence here but I don't buy this argument.
If those mindless aggro players have the same win-rate as skillful control players, you would see them up the ladder. But the fact is, most mindless players can't pass beyond certain points.
So my point is, high win-rate players are either skillful aggro players or it happens that the situation favours those players going face constantly in particular games.
I don't see many mindless aggro players up the ladder in a few months of plays. Usually it is the perfect situation makes going-face decision. Therefore, it's neither the flaw of the game. It's all down to players' skills and RNG.
If it is the truth that mindless aggro plays can make a player go up the ladder, you would see it everyday. But the fact is, there is no such phenomenon. So it proves that most of the players don't believe mindless aggro style is the key to success to high win-rate.
I know it is controversial, but I really don't think there is cancer deck in Hearthstone.
People usually call Face decks cancerous because they lack interaction and losing to one is very frusrating. But the fact is, face deck is never OP and a good player can manage to handle them in long run because he can interact with this type of deck even without interaction from the opponent.
We feel frustrated because in some games it seems that no matter what we do, we still lose. But this could happen in any kinds of games or matches. So personally I don't hate face deck but just dislike player playing face deck mindlessly. It's indeed cancerous to think any decks is cancerous, because once this occupies your mind, you are giving excuse to yourself that your interaction with this type of deck is useless. A good player never give excuses, they give solution.
+1
12 wins in ArenA with: Mage and Paladin, first time legend with Rogue
I think that often it is not the decl that is cancerous but the player who pilots it... Yesterday i ein against a face shaman who never tradet... Even when i got my murloc Knight out in t4... The snowball lost him the game... So stupid to never trade
12 wins in ArenA with: Mage and Paladin, first time legend with Rogue
There are no cancer decks, because its not the decks fault, its the games design and function that creates all the issues. The randomness of card draw, the randomness generated by any number of effects, the lack of direct interaction, and perfect mana every games just means that most games are much more determined by the RNG factors of cards drawn and random effects much more drastically than some people want to admit. Every deck has to be built under a number of conditions and each deck has strengths and weaknesses, especially against certain classes and archtypes, which then adds an additional layer of RNG. What am I going to queue into? You could run into favored match ups and hit a huge win streak right to legend or you could hit a rash of bad match ups, change decks based on what you were seeing and then instantly run into the decks you wanted to face with your previous deck and lose more games. The fact that each game is just 1 game and not a set also makes this seem much more frustrating because so many times you wish you could just get your win back from the person you just lost to but you have no real way of that happening. The games you win often don't make you feel like a good player but more like the luckier of the 2 and many games you lose you feel the same way about. The skill cap is there, playing well does help, but it doesn't win more games than luck.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Mr. Nais_One just showed us the perfect example that there are no cancer decks, only cancerous ppl with limited mental capacity.
The last truly cancerous deck was Undertaker hunter. If he gets a good draw, you could do absolutely nothing but see your hp go to 0 by T5. All other decks that salty people call cancerous have a goal - to burst down your opponent before he can establish big enough board presence. But the difference here is that there are counters even to god starts. Tech Revenge for warrior/ Reno decks /increased number of good 1 drops for slower decks, anyone? Also should a face deck have a bad starting hand, it almost never wins.
Oh and one more thing, I play face shaman from time to time. Got around 100 wins with it and in my experience, I would have won many more games, if I made some smart trades between going to face. So... currently face decks is not cancer.
It was not luck, but skill!
im pretty sure secret paladin gave me cancer and made me stop playing hearthstone atm
Aggro player has almost same WR as control player but wins faster, doesn't require any skills and doesn't need to tech their decks. Why?
Lets look at MTGO - there, u have 25 minutes to get 2 wins out of 3 games, and time is ticking every second when that 'ur turn' button is active. And dont forget u must click that OK button every time when opponent plays ANY card (or choose something else). If u lose ur 25 mins - u lose the match.
Do u want that style of playing in HS?
Im not.
I agree there are no such decks; However, I would like it better if people used another word instead of cancer.
HS is a game with a lot of 70/30 matchups, I think you'd see less complaints if the overall design geared us more into something like 60/40 being the norm (which I realize will not happen).
I also don't like decks that are powerful even if you misplay. Most aggro decks are not like that, it's true they are often simple to play - but misplay can cost you alot. Some other types of decks in HS right now are very powerful even if you play like a turd, I don't think that is good.
12 wins in ArenA with: Mage and Paladin, first time legend with Rogue
Han Solo dies
I think the main problem people have ( And that is extremely legit in my eyes ) with "cancer" decks ( Face hunter, secret paladin... ) is that these maintain roughly the same winrate as roughly any other deck ( More in secret paladin's case ) while demanding far less skill in most cases.
Losing isn't a problem when you know you've played wrong or your opponent did that insane play that you wouldn't have done yourself, but when you know your opponent barely had to think to defeat you even though you did no major mistake if any ( The famous cases of games, one in a tournament, being lost without the losing player having had the chance to play a card ), it does become a very heavy flaw of the game.
OP, not thinking that a lot of this has to do with design flaws is pretty cancerous too.
I agree with the op and the majority of posters by the look of it. I think that aggro/face decks are perfectly beatable and necessary for the game. I mainly play control, but an all control meta would be boring. With most of my decks I do well against face decks, we all have decks we dislike, for me the worst are secret paladin, freeze mage and mech mage, but I don't think they should be nerfed. Well, maybe secret paladin, a little, but if I'm playing control priest I don't think that because I own SP decks! Also, if facehunter wasn't around then SP decks would be even more powerful. The same goes for midrange hunter owning aggro shaman. Decks need counters.
I usually enjoy playing against decks like face hunter, it's a different challenge, variety is great. The only thing I would say, what Blue Banana might have been refering to, is that the way the ladder works does encourage face decks for those who want to rank up quickly. This can make ranked games tedious sometimes, although at the moment the meta where I am is wonderfully varied! Oh yeah, and aggro decks usually are pretty brain dead way to play, but I don't complain or cry nerf, I just pity people who play them ;) Except new players looking for a cheap deck, which is fair enough.