It was a hit to every midrange deck existing. the meta right now is only hyper face aggro or control with as many heals as possible. i dont really see how this is healthy for the game. every new meta is worse than the previous one. all my favourite decks are midrange cause thats the playstyle i enjoy and guess what i get either steamrolled by face shamans or no matter how much i push and deal damage these $@%@$%# exploit warlocks play reno and a board clear and they win. like wtf is this you like the game the way it is now
Actually midrange decks should be good against reno, just because they're board control oriented. Face decks usually run out of steam and can only win if the opponent doesn't have reno in hand, and control decks just don't care about reno and the opponent health points.
If you're playing a midrange deck, let's say mid pally, and you find yourself in the situation you've mentioned (not having a board and your opponent low on health using reno) then you were playing too aggressive versus a control deck, which isn't often the best idea if playing midrange.
Reno Jackson breaks every deck lacking of possibilities when he puts his opponent to 6 or 7 hp. So, basically, most of the midrange decks and control priest, indeed.
It breaks agro decks only if Reno Jackson is drawn. If not, as the deck is less consistent than a non-Reno Jackson deck, it will lose around T5 to agro.
Reno Jackson breaks every deck lacking of possibilities when he puts his opponent to 6 or 7 hp. So, basically, most of the midrange decks and control priest, indeed.
It breaks agro decks only if Reno Jackson is drawn. If not, as the deck is less consistent than a non-Reno Jackson deck, it will lose around T5 to agro.
Actually, I found that you can make very effective tempo decks with Reno. since Tempo is more reliant on having good minions and a strong curve and there's more than enough minions to create that strong curve (we have a lot of "good but doesn't fit" cards) they can make such a reno deck. Since they do well against aggro, Reno turns aggro fights into a rout while giving them a strong showing against midrange/combo decks.
The trick is that Reno is being used for VERY greedy control decks, which feed mostly on not-as fast control decks while leaving themselves WIDE open to aggro.
People want control to beat aggro reliably so that they can stick to 'their' deck type. Sadly, that's just like never wanting to change your choice in rock papers scissors.
Actually midrange decks should be good against reno, just because they're board control oriented. Face decks usually run out of steam and can only win if the opponent doesn't have reno in hand, and control decks just don't care about reno and the opponent health points.
If you're playing a midrange deck, let's say mid pally, and you find yourself in the situation you've mentioned (not having a board and your opponent low on health using reno) then you were playing too aggressive versus a control deck, which isn't often the best idea if playing midrange.
^ This, when i'm playing mid rang epala if i have board control it's easy to 2ko my opponent after the reno heal.
I am glad people are realizing that Reno did absolutely nothing. When it came out everyone was praising it as the aggro killer, but this was honestly just propaganda to make people think it was effective. Oh my God i just beat a aggro deck with Reno.... lets post a screenshot to the forums!
I also think the game will be more healthy because of aggro decks. If every match was 30+ minutes with the ResidentSleeper control decks i could easily see this game start to die off.
I am glad people are realizing that Reno did absolutely nothing. When it came out everyone was praising it as the aggro killer, but this was honestly just propaganda to make people think it was effective. Oh my God i just beat a aggro deck with Reno.... lets post a screenshot to the forums!
I also think the game will be more healthy because of aggro decks. If every match was 30+ minutes with the ResidentSleeper control decks i could easily see this game start to die off.
Reno actually DOES kill aggro.. with the right deck. Tempo with Reno is an insane aggro grinder.
The problem is that people don't want an anti-aggro deck. They want a greedy control deck with Reno.. that kills aggro.
Thus Reno goes into decks suited to destroy control by being greedier. Thus when aggro comes they have no tools for it and either don't make it to turn 6 or Reno when they have an empty board and the opponent has 7 minions up with a full hand.
Then they scream "OMG AGGRO IS STILL OP!"
And yes, when tournaments were heavily about control warrior and healadin it very much was a residentsleeper situation.
Cannot believe that's being said when Secret paladin and midrange paladin are the best decks in this meta.
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I dont know why you're saying Reno didnt kill aggro. When Renolock has drawn his reno he cant lose to any shaman/hunter deck, and secret palladin has a heck of a hard time.
At the moment i Think Reno is the strongest in Reno lock because their early curve (chow, darkbomb, gangboss and demon wrath) can keep up with about anything while their late game is one of the strongest in the game, unbeatable with the right cards (jaraxxus, heals and taunts).
To beat renolock, other decks at the moment just need a dream hand.
As much as I dislike Aggro the last thing I wanted was a card that was a panacea against it. Reno has hurt Aggro. I can personally attest to that, having won four games just this week against Aggro that I would never have prevailed with thanks to Reno. And he kept me in a fifth game that I still eventually lost. Two of my wins came by my opponent just resigning after Reno's appearance. And I received a welcome, albeit brief, friend invite when I played Reno and bounced him back to my hand on the same turn. (In other words, my opponent was furious.)
And of course I've had many games where Reno has had little or no impact at all. Either I never drew him or I misjudged the situation and didn't play him in time. Reno is unreliable; but he has made a difference. In a game with 30-card decks and only 2 of any card in a deck, it's not hard at all to build strong Highlanderish decks with Reno. And as more and more cards are printed it will become even easier.
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I don't know what you're talking about, other than Face Hunter/Shaman you can still beat Reno decks with aggro as long as you maintain board control, Midrange or Hybrind Hunter, Secret Paladin or Zoo all do a good enough job of that to not automatically lose the game whenever they play Reno. A lot of the times if they don't draw Reno they just die because they had to give up half of their early game to play him, 1 Mortal Coil, 1 Dark Bomb, 1 Zombie Chow, 1 Dark Peddler, 1 Ironbeak is like 5 cards you can't keep or mulligan for anymore, and 1 Mountain Giant, 1 Twilight Drake and 1 Voidcaller makes it really hard to establish any pressure until the late game. I can't tell you how many times I have been forced to Reno on T6 vs a T1 Mana Wyrm just because I didn't have removal or bodies to put in front of it compared to Malylock.
It was a hit to every midrange deck existing. the meta right now is only hyper face aggro or control with as many heals as possible. i dont really see how this is healthy for the game. every new meta is worse than the previous one. all my favourite decks are midrange cause thats the playstyle i enjoy and guess what i get either steamrolled by face shamans or no matter how much i push and deal damage these $@%@$%# exploit warlocks play reno and a board clear and they win. like wtf is this you like the game the way it is now
Yep. Most midrange decks(other than paladin <3) are the most boring pieces of dung ever. I'm glad players who think playing 1 drop into 2 drop into 3 drop into 4 drop and snowballing into a win is how hearthstone should be played are getting annoyed and will hopefully quit the game.
Actually hes right. The so-called "agro" decks of hearthstone are nothing more than the best attempts at winning with no challenge. Face hunter, Agro shaman, combo druid, secret pally etc etc. 50% of the time theyre guaranteed to win, no matter what the opponent does. Thats why six of my friends have quit the game, (two of them legend players). People dont want a challenge and they dont want to actually outsmart their opponent. All they want is free wins. The above examples of decks do just that, give free wins. Never in my entire life of CCG´s have I ever encountered such a mentality, not even competitivly, (Ive been playing competitive MTG for more than ten years).
Come to think of it, its actually pretty pathetic. An above poster does have a point, the game gets worse every single expansion. Not because of bad card design per say, but because of the mentality prevalent in the community. Win no matter the cost. Its not about fun anymore, its about winning or getting a bruised ego, which is evident in the salty thread in this forum. Thats also why netdecking, (and God forbid, heartharena "make the computer build your deck" site), is everywhere.
I think this game is nearing a state of beyond repair. The community made it happen, although cant say I wont point fingers at Blizzard for not nerfing blatantly overpowered cards, or badly designed cards for arena (Kraken, Murloc Knight, Mukla´s champion).
I have mixed feelings on it. One the one hand, I like Reno because he scared away a great deal of the aggro/face decks and caused the meta to slow. Reno also caused people to use new and interesting cards so that were aren't just saying the same netdeck for each class over and over again, now people actually run oddball cards and that never would have happened without Reno Jackson.
On the other hand, I also acknowledge that Reno hit mid-range tempo decks a little too hard IMO has nearly killed off an entire division of decks because Reno warped the design of the game and how much a player should be able to reasonably heal with a 6mana card. Mid-Range decks are supposed to out-work other decks to a certain point where that player is out of hp at just about the same time as the mid-range player is running out of cards. Then it becomes a close battle between the tempo deck being able to finish the job vs the other player being able to stabilize, with both sides jockeying for control. So decks like tempo mage, tempo rogue and mid-range hunter are good examples of this. Limited card draw, and they get you down just as they run out of steam. That was fair, but Reno just blew all that away. Now it's like, let's say you play tempo mage, use all your cards... the other player uses Reno and... you concede because there's no possible way to do it all over again. This is why the entire Hunter class is practically becoming extinct. There's no Hunter deck you can run anymore except full on super aggro face SMORC. OP is right that Reno hit the middle decks harder than the face decks, because a REAL face deck could kill you before turn 6 anyway. I'm not saying Reno is bad for the game (as a control player myself I like it), but I'm just saying I feel like middle speed decks got killed in the collateral damage between aggro and control, I don't know if I like that.
Reno decks are alright and usually aren't too bad to deal with because most classes don't have outstanding card draw or unlimited removal, especially if they're running one-ofs or very few duplicates in deck. I think RenoLock is very strong and is very viable though because of Lifetap + Lord Jaraxxus + Dark Peddler. I know there are times when it pulls a crappy 1 drop, but 1 mana cards weighted towards the warlock class is pretty amazing.
It is sad because I haven't touched my Tempo Mage all month long.
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Reno is just a terrible design card, you can't put a card that heal to 30, you will kill too many archetipes. They could have made it same body heal you for 10 and would have been better. If you have a good understanding of the game you will see how much that card hits the midrange decks, more than aggro. Reason was explained in detail before. How to counter Reno lock? I still have no answer for that. My idea was to play a Control Warrior and slam Alex the second he play Reno Jackson, Rafaam with the 3/3 spell to full your board after a Void or Flame and so on...
Makes me sad, I love this game and never had problems but this meta is just impossible and extremely boring.
Actually midrange decks should be good against reno, just because they're board control oriented. Face decks usually run out of steam and can only win if the opponent doesn't have reno in hand, and control decks just don't care about reno and the opponent health points.
If you're playing a midrange deck, let's say mid pally, and you find yourself in the situation you've mentioned (not having a board and your opponent low on health using reno) then you were playing too aggressive versus a control deck, which isn't often the best idea if playing midrange.
Yeah, this is true. It depends on your card draw as well. If you're drawing like crap it won't matter, but I guess that true in any matchup.
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It was a hit to every midrange deck existing. the meta right now is only hyper face aggro or control with as many heals as possible. i dont really see how this is healthy for the game. every new meta is worse than the previous one. all my favourite decks are midrange cause thats the playstyle i enjoy and guess what i get either steamrolled by face shamans or no matter how much i push and deal damage these $@%@$%# exploit warlocks play reno and a board clear and they win. like wtf is this you like the game the way it is now
Actually midrange decks should be good against reno, just because they're board control oriented. Face decks usually run out of steam and can only win if the opponent doesn't have reno in hand, and control decks just don't care about reno and the opponent health points.
If you're playing a midrange deck, let's say mid pally, and you find yourself in the situation you've mentioned (not having a board and your opponent low on health using reno) then you were playing too aggressive versus a control deck, which isn't often the best idea if playing midrange.
Reno Jackson breaks every deck lacking of possibilities when he puts his opponent to 6 or 7 hp.
So, basically, most of the midrange decks and control priest, indeed.
It breaks agro decks only if Reno Jackson is drawn. If not, as the deck is less consistent than a non-Reno Jackson deck, it will lose around T5 to agro.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
This, when i'm playing mid rang epala if i have board control it's easy to 2ko my opponent after the reno heal.
I agree with the OP.
There's too many ways to burst life. Brann plus heal bot is about as good as Reno usually.
Games take longer, and you can never count on your opponents life total, its s roller coaster.
The game needed better healing options, not keeping players at 30 health multiple times. Its kind of dull.
Once again... Arena is more fun than ranked. Guess thats the game. A good Arena win rate will blow away that puny rank five prize anyway. Meh.
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I am glad people are realizing that Reno did absolutely nothing. When it came out everyone was praising it as the aggro killer, but this was honestly just propaganda to make people think it was effective. Oh my God i just beat a aggro deck with Reno.... lets post a screenshot to the forums!
I also think the game will be more healthy because of aggro decks. If every match was 30+ minutes with the ResidentSleeper control decks i could easily see this game start to die off.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Cannot believe that's being said when Secret paladin and midrange paladin are the best decks in this meta.
This disclaimer
Will cleanse any sense of innuendo or sarcasm
From the comments that might actually make you think
And will also insult your intelligence at the same time.
So, if it sounds sarcastic, don't take it seriously.
If it sounds dangerous,
Do not try this at home or at all.
And if it offends you, just don't read it.
I dont know why you're saying Reno didnt kill aggro. When Renolock has drawn his reno he cant lose to any shaman/hunter deck, and secret palladin has a heck of a hard time.
At the moment i Think Reno is the strongest in Reno lock because their early curve (chow, darkbomb, gangboss and demon wrath) can keep up with about anything while their late game is one of the strongest in the game, unbeatable with the right cards (jaraxxus, heals and taunts).
To beat renolock, other decks at the moment just need a dream hand.
As much as I dislike Aggro the last thing I wanted was a card that was a panacea against it. Reno has hurt Aggro. I can personally attest to that, having won four games just this week against Aggro that I would never have prevailed with thanks to Reno. And he kept me in a fifth game that I still eventually lost. Two of my wins came by my opponent just resigning after Reno's appearance. And I received a welcome, albeit brief, friend invite when I played Reno and bounced him back to my hand on the same turn. (In other words, my opponent was furious.)
And of course I've had many games where Reno has had little or no impact at all. Either I never drew him or I misjudged the situation and didn't play him in time. Reno is unreliable; but he has made a difference. In a game with 30-card decks and only 2 of any card in a deck, it's not hard at all to build strong Highlanderish decks with Reno. And as more and more cards are printed it will become even easier.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
I don't know what you're talking about, other than Face Hunter/Shaman you can still beat Reno decks with aggro as long as you maintain board control, Midrange or Hybrind Hunter, Secret Paladin or Zoo all do a good enough job of that to not automatically lose the game whenever they play Reno. A lot of the times if they don't draw Reno they just die because they had to give up half of their early game to play him, 1 Mortal Coil, 1 Dark Bomb, 1 Zombie Chow, 1 Dark Peddler, 1 Ironbeak is like 5 cards you can't keep or mulligan for anymore, and 1 Mountain Giant, 1 Twilight Drake and 1 Voidcaller makes it really hard to establish any pressure until the late game. I can't tell you how many times I have been forced to Reno on T6 vs a T1 Mana Wyrm just because I didn't have removal or bodies to put in front of it compared to Malylock.
Actually hes right. The so-called "agro" decks of hearthstone are nothing more than the best attempts at winning with no challenge. Face hunter, Agro shaman, combo druid, secret pally etc etc. 50% of the time theyre guaranteed to win, no matter what the opponent does. Thats why six of my friends have quit the game, (two of them legend players). People dont want a challenge and they dont want to actually outsmart their opponent. All they want is free wins. The above examples of decks do just that, give free wins. Never in my entire life of CCG´s have I ever encountered such a mentality, not even competitivly, (Ive been playing competitive MTG for more than ten years).
Come to think of it, its actually pretty pathetic. An above poster does have a point, the game gets worse every single expansion. Not because of bad card design per say, but because of the mentality prevalent in the community. Win no matter the cost. Its not about fun anymore, its about winning or getting a bruised ego, which is evident in the salty thread in this forum. Thats also why netdecking, (and God forbid, heartharena "make the computer build your deck" site), is everywhere.
I think this game is nearing a state of beyond repair. The community made it happen, although cant say I wont point fingers at Blizzard for not nerfing blatantly overpowered cards, or badly designed cards for arena (Kraken, Murloc Knight, Mukla´s champion).
this forum has taught me that every meta is a terrible one no matter how diverse "cause the aggro deck hurts my feelings "
I have mixed feelings on it. One the one hand, I like Reno because he scared away a great deal of the aggro/face decks and caused the meta to slow. Reno also caused people to use new and interesting cards so that were aren't just saying the same netdeck for each class over and over again, now people actually run oddball cards and that never would have happened without Reno Jackson.
On the other hand, I also acknowledge that Reno hit mid-range tempo decks a little too hard IMO has nearly killed off an entire division of decks because Reno warped the design of the game and how much a player should be able to reasonably heal with a 6mana card. Mid-Range decks are supposed to out-work other decks to a certain point where that player is out of hp at just about the same time as the mid-range player is running out of cards. Then it becomes a close battle between the tempo deck being able to finish the job vs the other player being able to stabilize, with both sides jockeying for control. So decks like tempo mage, tempo rogue and mid-range hunter are good examples of this. Limited card draw, and they get you down just as they run out of steam. That was fair, but Reno just blew all that away. Now it's like, let's say you play tempo mage, use all your cards... the other player uses Reno and... you concede because there's no possible way to do it all over again. This is why the entire Hunter class is practically becoming extinct. There's no Hunter deck you can run anymore except full on super aggro face SMORC. OP is right that Reno hit the middle decks harder than the face decks, because a REAL face deck could kill you before turn 6 anyway. I'm not saying Reno is bad for the game (as a control player myself I like it), but I'm just saying I feel like middle speed decks got killed in the collateral damage between aggro and control, I don't know if I like that.
Reno decks are alright and usually aren't too bad to deal with because most classes don't have outstanding card draw or unlimited removal, especially if they're running one-ofs or very few duplicates in deck. I think RenoLock is very strong and is very viable though because of Lifetap + Lord Jaraxxus + Dark Peddler. I know there are times when it pulls a crappy 1 drop, but 1 mana cards weighted towards the warlock class is pretty amazing.
It is sad because I haven't touched my Tempo Mage all month long.
Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
Reno is just a terrible design card, you can't put a card that heal to 30, you will kill too many archetipes.
They could have made it same body heal you for 10 and would have been better.
If you have a good understanding of the game you will see how much that card hits the midrange decks, more than aggro.
Reason was explained in detail before.
How to counter Reno lock? I still have no answer for that.
My idea was to play a Control Warrior and slam Alex the second he play Reno Jackson, Rafaam with the 3/3 spell to full your board after a Void or Flame and so on...
Makes me sad, I love this game and never had problems but this meta is just impossible and extremely boring.
Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016