After a very short time of Reno, everyones back to aggro. Its really weird cause Blizz seems to really want to give us options agains it but somehow no one cares -.-
Trump talks about it one of his videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8N4A8IiKKM if you're interested. Note that it's a normal gameplay video so the talk is hidden somewhere in there so unless you just like watching someone being silly while playing aggro you don' tneed to watch it. Still the reference is here.).
Basically, aggro has a lower win rate over other decks, so they ARE weaker, but the volume of games played outweighs running a worse deck. Thus a fast deck that loses more is better for ranking up than a slower, more effective deck. That's why all of the professionals run them at the start of the season.
So it really doesn't matter HOW strong you make slow decks. So long as Ranked remains as is, Aggro is always better until you hit legendary at least.
That and Reno decks have recently turned more and more greedy and slow. Meanwhile Murloc paladin has turned into a VERY greedy slow deck that abuses Reno decks. The natural counter to greedy slow decks is aggro, by design, so it makes sense to go aggro against such decks.
So combine a meta that has gone so slow that they invite aggro counters, and a game type that rewards fast decks over the best decks and you have an aggro meta. #*$)# I've sped up my decks and I normally go anti-aggro rather than aggro.
Trump talks about it one of his videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8N4A8IiKKM if you're interested. Note that it's a normal gameplay video so the talk is hidden somewhere in there so unless you just like watching someone being silly while playing aggro you don' tneed to watch it. Still the reference is here.).
Basically, aggro has a lower win rate over other decks, so they ARE weaker, but the volume of games played outweighs running a worse deck. Thus a fast deck that loses more is better for ranking up than a slower, more effective deck. That's why all of the professionals run them at the start of the season.
So it really doesn't matter HOW strong you make slow decks. So long as Ranked remains as is, Aggro is always better until you hit legendary at least.
That and Reno decks have recently turned more and more greedy and slow. Meanwhile Murloc paladin has turned into a VERY greedy slow deck that abuses Reno decks. The natural counter to greedy slow decks is aggro, by design, so it makes sense to go aggro against such decks.
So combine a meta that has gone so slow that they invite aggro counters, and a game type that rewards fast decks over the best decks and you have an aggro meta. #*$)# I've sped up my decks and I normally go anti-aggro rather than aggro.
So then the logical choice would be to play reno to counter the agro would it not?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
The fact that Face hunter is still rampant just shows up HS for what it is .... a casual rng fest. We've all known this for a long time, but denial is a terrible thing. I don't blame the players who abuse it, because it works, I blame blizz for being a lot less imaginative than they love to think.
Things like a Freeze Mage pulling a Reno off on you at the last moment are still going to be very scary, and I certainly like using Reno in quite a few decks, but I think one overwhelming fact is simply that if you're looking to Rank, Aggro decks create faster games and playing games more often means you tend to rank up faster if the winrates are relatively similar between the Control and Aggro decks you're using.
So yah, unless I'm playing for fun, I use Aggro more often than not when trying to Rank. Although there are plenty of moments where I switch just because I want a change of pace, even when I'm trying to rank.
You also forget something: people are now quite oog (out of gold) these days. Blizzard revealed League of Explores at blizzcon and then released it a few days later: most player through they have more time to gather the gold for the expansion but where quite overwhelmed. The first 2 wings were not so hard to gather the money, because nearly none of them were at 0 gold, but now the last wing comes out and people need the gold. Fast decks have a higher gold per hour-value than slower decks, even if the winrate is lower.
The fact that Face hunter is still rampant just shows up HS for what it is .... a casual rng fest. We've all known this for a long time, but denial is a terrible thing. I don't blame the players who abuse it, because it works, I blame blizz for being a lot less imaginative than they love to think.
Face Hunter is one of the least RNG reliant decks in the game, by simple virtue that it basically can't open a dead hand.
its a healthy balenced meta some aggro some tempo some control even some combo here and there i cant complain maybe your in the lower ranks? since were only a week into the new season
I don't understand when people say 'when the meta slows down, aggro will get stronger'. Unless I'm misunderstanding, the meta slowing down would mean control decks are better at countering aggro, hence the meta 'slowing down' because it's more viable to run them?
The fact that Face hunter is still rampant just shows up HS for what it is .... a casual rng fest. We've all known this for a long time, but denial is a terrible thing. I don't blame the players who abuse it, because it works, I blame blizz for being a lot less imaginative than they love to think.
Face Hunter is one of the least RNG reliant decks in the game, by simple virtue that it basically can't open a dead hand.
Your hand is Owl, Quickshot, Quickshot, Leeroy Good luck
So then the logical choice would be to play reno to counter the agro would it not?
Reno TEMPO yes. Basically the original Reno decks with no or just one double. Such decks typically run in a Tempo style, replacing doubled minions with two similar ones, like running Tazdingo+Shredder or the like. Tempo naturally has power against aggro so much of the time you won't even need Reno, but he's there to put the nail in the coffin and shore up those games where aggro would normally squeak by.
But decks then started playing around with things like freeze mage reno or control warrior reno. Those decks relied on card draw and stalling the game out until you basically drew your entire deck. Those decks went heavy control yet still was able to do well with Reno. They countered Tempo Reno decks since Control > Tempo and the first to fire Reno typically lost (and Tempo Reno is about being able to fire him off early).
So the meta finally slowed down, which resulted in Anyfun Paladin to PWN everyone. Which shouldn't come as a surprise because Paladin ALWAYS pwns a heavy control meta. Healadin did the same thing last year and only died because everyone stopped going greedy control.
Reno resulted in greedy control, which means Paladin came in to prove they were the greediest. And the same *#$(#* thing happened: aggro came to punish.
In case you are ahead of me, yes, if you're facing face hunters and aggro decks, you can go back to Tempo Reno and pwn them all. I'm LOVING my Dragon Reno priest. An anti-aggro class using an anti-aggro deck with an anti-aggro modification. If this deck is around, choosing an aggro deck converts the Play button into the Lose button.
But I'm also seeing a lot of control still, so along with my Anti-aggro Anti-aggro anti-aggro I'm running Mech Rogue, Mech Mage, and Patron warrior. i WOULD run Anyfin Paladin but I can't convince myself to make 2 war murlocs given that I'm close to making Vo'jin (or bloodmage. SOO hard to craft that thing).
The fact that Face hunter is still rampant just shows up HS for what it is .... a casual rng fest. We've all known this for a long time, but denial is a terrible thing. I don't blame the players who abuse it, because it works, I blame blizz for being a lot less imaginative than they love to think.
Face Hunter is one of the least RNG reliant decks in the game, by simple virtue that it basically can't open a dead hand.
Your hand is Owl, Quickshot, Quickshot, Leeroy Good luck
I don't understand when people say 'when the meta slows down, aggro will get stronger'. Unless I'm misunderstanding, the meta slowing down would mean control decks are better at countering aggro, hence the meta 'slowing down' because it's more viable to run them?
I guess it's about balance the meta. "In theory" control decks are better at countering aggro, so when the meta slows down, meaning a lot of control decks in ladder. Then midrange decks will come in beating control decks, result into aggro rise again to beat midrange decks.
Kinda like rock, paper, scissors, but "in theory" ofc.
I don't understand when people say 'when the meta slows down, aggro will get stronger'. Unless I'm misunderstanding, the meta slowing down would mean control decks are better at countering aggro, hence the meta 'slowing down' because it's more viable to run them?
I guess it's about balance the meta. "In theory" control decks are better at countering aggro, so when the meta slows down, meaning a lot of control decks in ladder. Then midrange decks will come in beating control decks, result into aggro rise again to beat midrange decks.
Kinda like rock, paper, scissors, but "in theory" ofc.
Actually, aggro is better at fighting control 'in theory'. The original trilogy was Aggro beats Control, which beats Combo which beats Aggro. It's why the answer to super greedy reno is fast aggro.
In HS, we have a sort of circle of counters. Control loses to Midrange, which loses to aggro, which loses to Tempo, which loses to Control. You CAN skip midrange and beat control with aggro but only reliably if they go VERY slow. Even then, midrange is better.
To answer Thelkuzad, the meta slowing down typically means Tempo or Combo has ruined aggro and has become dominate. This results in most people going Tempo/Combo with some people responding with Control to beat them. This continues until the meta slows down to the point when Control starts to dominate, which gets countered by aggro.
Note that since Ranked typically rewards fast decks, the transition from control to aggro is A LOT faster than from aggro to control since you don't actually have to have aggro BEAT control for aggro to dominate. Aggro just has to win just enough to warrant playing it.
But the key to remember is that, when everything is workign perfectly, aggro is meant to win against very slow control decks, not the other way around. In HS, TEMPO is the answer to Aggro.
The fact that Face hunter is still rampant just shows up HS for what it is .... a casual rng fest. We've all known this for a long time, but denial is a terrible thing. I don't blame the players who abuse it, because it works, I blame blizz for being a lot less imaginative than they love to think.
Face Hunter is one of the least RNG reliant decks in the game, by simple virtue that it basically can't open a dead hand.
Your hand is Owl, Quickshot, Quickshot, Leeroy Good luck
What the hell did you mulligan from?
my guess would be quickshot, owl, arcane golem, arcane golem
Unless we get extra stars for long games (it terms of turns, not time played) - aggro will always be dominant on ladder. Because actual winrate doesn't matter, when you can win 3 times and lose 2 times same time control player makes one game.
So unless they do something in terms of reward, it won't change.
It's still early in the season,so obviously people are going to be running aggro decks more often.
Anyway, regardless of what cards they introduce to the game, aggro will always be a viable archetype. Blizzard has stated they want it to be so and people just have to learn to cope. Aggro can be countered, and it's up to the player to learn how to do it.
The fact that Face hunter is still rampant just shows up HS for what it is .... a casual rng fest. We've all known this for a long time, but denial is a terrible thing. I don't blame the players who abuse it, because it works, I blame blizz for being a lot less imaginative than they love to think.
Face Hunter is one of the least RNG reliant decks in the game, by simple virtue that it basically can't open a dead hand.
You understand RNG works both ways right? Unless you get great rng in your favour when facing a FH, you're screwed. That, is what I meant. FH is nothing but a 'play the cards that glow green, attack face' POS deck. I could have my 8yr old daughter run FH and she'd do well. Decks like this make a complete joke of any sense of 'skill' in the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Everyones running aggro again, right?
After a very short time of Reno, everyones back to aggro. Its really weird cause Blizz seems to really want to give us options agains it but somehow no one cares -.-
At least the games are quick :)
My totally control zoo deck is fun at least... :D
Trump talks about it one of his videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8N4A8IiKKM if you're interested. Note that it's a normal gameplay video so the talk is hidden somewhere in there so unless you just like watching someone being silly while playing aggro you don' tneed to watch it. Still the reference is here.).
Basically, aggro has a lower win rate over other decks, so they ARE weaker, but the volume of games played outweighs running a worse deck. Thus a fast deck that loses more is better for ranking up than a slower, more effective deck. That's why all of the professionals run them at the start of the season.
So it really doesn't matter HOW strong you make slow decks. So long as Ranked remains as is, Aggro is always better until you hit legendary at least.
That and Reno decks have recently turned more and more greedy and slow. Meanwhile Murloc paladin has turned into a VERY greedy slow deck that abuses Reno decks. The natural counter to greedy slow decks is aggro, by design, so it makes sense to go aggro against such decks.
So combine a meta that has gone so slow that they invite aggro counters, and a game type that rewards fast decks over the best decks and you have an aggro meta. #*$)# I've sped up my decks and I normally go anti-aggro rather than aggro.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
The fact that Face hunter is still rampant just shows up HS for what it is .... a casual rng fest. We've all known this for a long time, but denial is a terrible thing. I don't blame the players who abuse it, because it works, I blame blizz for being a lot less imaginative than they love to think.
Things like a Freeze Mage pulling a Reno off on you at the last moment are still going to be very scary, and I certainly like using Reno in quite a few decks, but I think one overwhelming fact is simply that if you're looking to Rank, Aggro decks create faster games and playing games more often means you tend to rank up faster if the winrates are relatively similar between the Control and Aggro decks you're using.
So yah, unless I'm playing for fun, I use Aggro more often than not when trying to Rank. Although there are plenty of moments where I switch just because I want a change of pace, even when I'm trying to rank.
You also forget something: people are now quite oog (out of gold) these days. Blizzard revealed League of Explores at blizzcon and then released it a few days later: most player through they have more time to gather the gold for the expansion but where quite overwhelmed. The first 2 wings were not so hard to gather the money, because nearly none of them were at 0 gold, but now the last wing comes out and people need the gold. Fast decks have a higher gold per hour-value than slower decks, even if the winrate is lower.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
its a healthy balenced meta some aggro some tempo some control even some combo here and there i cant complain maybe your in the lower ranks? since were only a week into the new season
I don't understand when people say 'when the meta slows down, aggro will get stronger'. Unless I'm misunderstanding, the meta slowing down would mean control decks are better at countering aggro, hence the meta 'slowing down' because it's more viable to run them?
Good luck
Reno TEMPO yes. Basically the original Reno decks with no or just one double. Such decks typically run in a Tempo style, replacing doubled minions with two similar ones, like running Tazdingo+Shredder or the like. Tempo naturally has power against aggro so much of the time you won't even need Reno, but he's there to put the nail in the coffin and shore up those games where aggro would normally squeak by.
But decks then started playing around with things like freeze mage reno or control warrior reno. Those decks relied on card draw and stalling the game out until you basically drew your entire deck. Those decks went heavy control yet still was able to do well with Reno. They countered Tempo Reno decks since Control > Tempo and the first to fire Reno typically lost (and Tempo Reno is about being able to fire him off early).
So the meta finally slowed down, which resulted in Anyfun Paladin to PWN everyone. Which shouldn't come as a surprise because Paladin ALWAYS pwns a heavy control meta. Healadin did the same thing last year and only died because everyone stopped going greedy control.
Reno resulted in greedy control, which means Paladin came in to prove they were the greediest. And the same *#$(#* thing happened: aggro came to punish.
In case you are ahead of me, yes, if you're facing face hunters and aggro decks, you can go back to Tempo Reno and pwn them all. I'm LOVING my Dragon Reno priest. An anti-aggro class using an anti-aggro deck with an anti-aggro modification. If this deck is around, choosing an aggro deck converts the Play button into the Lose button.
But I'm also seeing a lot of control still, so along with my Anti-aggro Anti-aggro anti-aggro I'm running Mech Rogue, Mech Mage, and Patron warrior. i WOULD run Anyfin Paladin but I can't convince myself to make 2 war murlocs given that I'm close to making Vo'jin (or bloodmage. SOO hard to craft that thing).
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
the red queen hypothesis
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
+kill command + unleash the hounds
Hearthstone: Main Oil Rogue
WoW: Main: Sub Rogue
Unless we get extra stars for long games (it terms of turns, not time played) - aggro will always be dominant on ladder. Because actual winrate doesn't matter, when you can win 3 times and lose 2 times same time control player makes one game.
So unless they do something in terms of reward, it won't change.
It's still early in the season,so obviously people are going to be running aggro decks more often.
Anyway, regardless of what cards they introduce to the game, aggro will always be a viable archetype. Blizzard has stated they want it to be so and people just have to learn to cope. Aggro can be countered, and it's up to the player to learn how to do it.