Just genuinely curious as to how many of these haters have actually tried the deck. Since a lot of the statements here are not very believable.
Me too. I don't have a massive success rate for the deck myself, although it is viable and admittedly I am missing a few key cards from my collection that would really help a control Paladin deck. I have also hardly encountered anyone else playing with it. I certainly haven't been OTK'd from it and, indeed, don't think I've lost to any of the decks with Anyfin that I've encountered. I'm on the EU server and up to rank 12 so far this season.
It would be interesting for me to know what rank all these people who are getting destroyed by the deck are playing at and how frequently they're seeing it?
I have - it works reasonably well but feels imho weaker than just a normal midrange Paladin overall. That's not the point though - the point is that the ability to kill a full HP player from an empty board is something that time and time again Blizzard has come out against. Here it is again and it will hopefully soon be taken care of as it doesn't make for interesting play.
Just genuinely curious as to how many of these haters have actually tried the deck. Since a lot of the statements here are not very believable.
Me too. I don't have a massive success rate for the deck myself, although it is viable and admittedly I am missing a few key cards from my collection that would really help a control Paladin deck. I have also hardly encountered anyone else playing with it. I certainly haven't been OTK'd from it and, indeed, don't think I've lost to any of the decks with Anyfin that I've encountered. I'm on the EU server and up to rank 12 so far this season.
It would be interesting for me to know what rank all these people who are getting destroyed by the deck are playing at and how frequently they're seeing it?
I have - it works reasonably well but feels imho weaker than just a normal midrange Paladin overall. That's not the point though - the point is that the ability to kill a full HP player from an empty board is something that time and time again Blizzard has come out against. Here it is again and it will hopefully soon be taken care of as it doesn't make for interesting play.
On my phone, sorry, I would have tidied up the quotes for readability purposes.
There are already existing precedents that work currently like velen otk priests or avianna druid, those can be performed on empty board and those classes don't lack stalling tools either. Still those decks aren't played much simply because they are inferior to other decks of respective class. This has mostly to do with tempo being the most important aspect in Hearthstone currently. Keeping cards in your hand and spending turns cycling does nothing in that respect. These decks offer little variety in terms of win conditions and that is a fair tradeoff considering these otks hit as early as t10.
It's absolutely incomparable to patron and freezemage since they have a lot of different ways to win and are very adaptive based on a variety of matchups.
I think the existence of these decks is a nice addition since the introduction of reno, but I find the regular arsenal of tempo decks more compelling. Winning faster is almost always better.
I didn't read the whole thread - but I have been watching Strifecro play this deck the past two nights. He has a positive win-rate with it, but its around 60% for him (and he is a top level tournament player) so its certainly not OP. Win rates with Grim Patron before the nerf were routinely in the 70-75% range.
The combo is expensive and draw dependent. Paladin has okay draw mechanics (lay on hands) but not crazy draw mechanics like Warrior has (which was another reason the warsong commander combo was so powerful).
So all in all, meh, it sucks to die from 30+ damage burst, but then it sucks to die to druid combo, oil rogue combo, freeze mage combo, etc. This combo has not yet proven to be consistent enough to get all in huff about...
I didn't read the whole thread - but I have been watching Strifecro play this deck the past two nights. He has a positive win-rate with it, but its around 60% for him (and he is a top level tournament player) so its certainly not OP. Win rates with Grim Patron before the nerf were routinely in the 70-75% range.
The combo is expensive and draw dependent. Paladin has okay draw mechanics (lay on hands) but not crazy draw mechanics like Warrior has (which was another reason the warsong commander combo was so powerful).
So all in all, meh, it sucks to die from 30+ damage burst, but then it sucks to die to druid combo, oil rogue combo, freeze mage combo, etc. This combo has not yet proven to be consistent enough to get all in huff about...
He played the control / mid-range version, didn't he? The cycle versions seem far better, imo.
Still those decks aren't played much simply because they are inferior to other decks of respective class.
...
Winning faster is almost always better.
That is true, because to be viable for ladder deck should win insanely fast. Control deck (like this OTK/control deck) play single round too long, even if winrate is higher - time spent is more than x3 times higher than you could do with aggro deck.
But this has nothing to do with the actual strength of the deck.
Still those decks aren't played much simply because they are inferior to other decks of respective class.
...
Winning faster is almost always better.
That is true, because to be viable for ladder deck should win insanely fast. Control deck (like this OTK/control deck) play single round too long, even if winrate is higher - time spent is more than x3 times higher than you could do with aggro deck.
But this has nothing to do with the actual strength of the deck.
Adressing each point.
Comparing paladin and druid board control options. If the goal is to stall, druid might as well play pyro itself, it's not restricted to just paladin only because of obvious synergy with equality, which, by the way, is miles above anything else paladin has. Without it your board control options become much weaker. Swipe in addition to statfall is a 2nd board clear which works excellently with Azure drake unlike pallie's single consecration. Against aggro, which is the main concern for this type of deck, keeper>aldor.
When I mentioned avianna druid I expected it to be apparent, due to the context of the discussion, that I wasn't talking about ramp druid but rather the avianna malygos double faceless moonfire otk deck.
Lastly, longer games, do not equate to a higher winrate. Currently hearthstone is in a state where you win when you play a relevant minion on curve several turns in a row, see secret paladin, midrange hunter/paladin, tempo mage. Combo decks that rely on having 10 mana are just not gonna do that.
Comparing paladin and druid board control options. If the goal is to stall, druid might as well play pyro itself, it's not restricted to just paladin only because of obvious synergy with equality, which, by the way, is miles above anything else paladin has. Without it your board control options become much weaker. Swipe in addition to statfall is a 2nd board clear which works excellently with Azure drake unlike pallie's single consecration. Against aggro, which is the main concern for this type of deck, keeper>aldor.
Believe me, I happen to play both classes, and I've ran every possible and impossible druid deck (including dozens of mill druid experiments).
Druid sucks at removal. When it comes to fighting facehunter - it's okay, keeper damages 2, swipe removes everything etc. But when we say "aggro" we mean tempo decks too, generally. When it comes to removing something midrangy or bigger - this is where the problem starts. Keeper>Aldor, you say? What can you do with keeper against Piloted Shredder, for example? Savannah Highmane? Mysterious Challenger? Dr. Boom? What druid can do against them at all? There is no viable single-target removal options.
And that's 3-mana vs 4-mana. Why don't compare that with Truesilver Champion? 8 damage and 4 heal is way better than 2 damage and 2/4 body. The only benefit is silince option when you need it.
Druid: 2x 1-damage AoE, 2x 2 damage AoE (1 mana bigger than Consecration and don't damage hero). Paladin: 2x 2-damage clearers, 2 equalities, Enter the Coliseum, Eadric the Pure. Many of those cards aren't limited by enemy hitpoint value, thus have better control potential (work against midrange/control too).
When I mentioned avianna druid I expected it to be apparent, due to the context of the discussion, that I wasn't talking about ramp druid but rather the avianna malygos double faceless moonfire otk deck.
Oh. Okay. I didn't think about that deck because unlike OTK paladin it doesn't work.
If we happen to run against somebody we don't want to OTK (facehunter, for example), but rather control and stall, we both waste our OTK opportunity and don't really do much, cuz those cards are pretty useless outside of OTK.
When we talk about Anyfin Paladin, there is no such thing. It's only 1 card that needs to be held at hand until OTK conditions met, other cards are free to use. OTK-requirement is easy too, 3/5 murlocks charging an used as removal tools.
Lastly, longer games, do not equate to a higher winrate. Currently hearthstone is in a state where you win when you play a relevant minion on curve several turns in a row, see secret paladin, midrange hunter/paladin, tempo mage. Combo decks that rely on having 10 mana are just not gonna do that.
Control decks, tho, counter those "play minion on curve" thing pretty hard. I've got three slow decks that can fight faster decks really good, stabilizing, healing up and plain out-valuing it (I'm not saying that RNG can't mess with that, but chances are high). It have mixed control options for any scenario (healing / taunts for aggro, taunts / effective cheap AoE's against tempo, full removals against midrange and control).
Murlock OTK is one of them, but it is different in terms it is also an OTK. That means I would assume a good matchup against my other two control decks.
Well, after having finally played the deck over a small sample (around 10-15 games), I'd say it's good, albeit inconsistent. I haven't tried Thisj's list but was using Dog's to test it out after watching VLPS get wrecked by it on stream (I was watching VLPS' stream). This version has been pretty great versus Control, especially those darn Priests who wreck my Midrange Pally, and versus Renolock. It's been pretty good against Rogue too, wrecked two Miracle rogues, lost to a Raptor Rogue though. Hyper agro like Overload Shaman has not been as good unless I draw early answers or they run out of steam and I start to lay down taunts and healing.
10 mana for the Combo is VERY awkward though. There are times where I've had only 1 or 2 Murlocs die and just burn it to have 2 more die and hope I draw into the second Anyfin or more murlocs along the way.
I'm wondering if Emperor can find his way into this deck, as he also enabled the extreme end of those giant Patron Warrior plays. Being able to drop a Bluegill and Anyfin the same turn could make up a small amount of damage on your combo that could mean the difference between lethal or not - or even 0 cost Equality's to get through a taunt easier.
I did streak from 9 to 6 with this deck without a loss along the way. I finally did lose to a priest though to break my streak. Discover cards are just so strong, and Curator is no different. He got Sylvanas and Piloted Sky Golem, stole my Sludge Belcher, a dude, AND a mini bot (he was running Youthful Brewmaster - the hell?)
Oddly enough only faced one other Pally running Anyfin. I left his board full of dudes and didn't play any additional minions on the turn leading into his 10 (I had a minibot and something else on my board). He used Anyfin for some reason to clear my board and suicide his Bluegills - which led to me getting his Murlocs in my own Anyfin the next turn o_O.
All in all a fun deck.
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Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
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What's with all the love they're giving Paladin?
First, they give it Mysterious Challenger
Now they have Anyfin
not to mention, that the class was never really bad in the first place
I didn't read the whole thread - but I have been watching Strifecro play this deck the past two nights. He has a positive win-rate with it, but its around 60% for him (and he is a top level tournament player) so its certainly not OP. Win rates with Grim Patron before the nerf were routinely in the 70-75% range.
The combo is expensive and draw dependent. Paladin has okay draw mechanics (lay on hands) but not crazy draw mechanics like Warrior has (which was another reason the warsong commander combo was so powerful).
So all in all, meh, it sucks to die from 30+ damage burst, but then it sucks to die to druid combo, oil rogue combo, freeze mage combo, etc. This combo has not yet proven to be consistent enough to get all in huff about...
Paladin: 2x 2-damage clearers, 2 equalities, Enter the Coliseum, Eadric the Pure. Many of those cards aren't limited by enemy hitpoint value, thus have better control potential (work against midrange/control too).
Well, after having finally played the deck over a small sample (around 10-15 games), I'd say it's good, albeit inconsistent. I haven't tried Thisj's list but was using Dog's to test it out after watching VLPS get wrecked by it on stream (I was watching VLPS' stream). This version has been pretty great versus Control, especially those darn Priests who wreck my Midrange Pally, and versus Renolock. It's been pretty good against Rogue too, wrecked two Miracle rogues, lost to a Raptor Rogue though. Hyper agro like Overload Shaman has not been as good unless I draw early answers or they run out of steam and I start to lay down taunts and healing.
10 mana for the Combo is VERY awkward though. There are times where I've had only 1 or 2 Murlocs die and just burn it to have 2 more die and hope I draw into the second Anyfin or more murlocs along the way.
I'm wondering if Emperor can find his way into this deck, as he also enabled the extreme end of those giant Patron Warrior plays. Being able to drop a Bluegill and Anyfin the same turn could make up a small amount of damage on your combo that could mean the difference between lethal or not - or even 0 cost Equality's to get through a taunt easier.
I did streak from 9 to 6 with this deck without a loss along the way. I finally did lose to a priest though to break my streak. Discover cards are just so strong, and Curator is no different. He got Sylvanas and Piloted Sky Golem, stole my Sludge Belcher, a dude, AND a mini bot (he was running Youthful Brewmaster - the hell?)
Oddly enough only faced one other Pally running Anyfin. I left his board full of dudes and didn't play any additional minions on the turn leading into his 10 (I had a minibot and something else on my board). He used Anyfin for some reason to clear my board and suicide his Bluegills - which led to me getting his Murlocs in my own Anyfin the next turn o_O.
All in all a fun deck.
Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016