(Disclaimer:this thread is not meant to offend anyone or to be another salty thread by someone who is just angry at the game)
So after playing hearthstone for over a year now and after browsing this forum for a while, I am getting more and more the impression that people on this game suffer from a severe case of "sheep mentality". Society in general(particularly on the internet) tends to suffer from this, but hearthstone players are actually ridiculous, whether it be because of the age of the average HS player(which seems to be below 18 years old) or because twitch streams and youtube videos tend to foster this mindset. Hopefully I can make you understand why I get this feel and why I believe HS could be a much better game if the players themselves changed their attitude towards the game.
A key topic I want to address is deckbuilding. While I see no problem in basing your ideas off other people's decks, or even copying them card for card before making changes to suit your play style, or the current meta(and again, if you believe the deck to be just fine if you make no changes,then so be it), I can't help but wonder why do so many people even bother to copy whatever deck people like savjz, trump,etc are playing only to get stuck at rank 10 with it because they can't use it properly and then log onto this forum to claim the deck is "terrible". Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you are not doing well with the deck is because a)you suck with it and need to actually work to improve with it, just like the creator did and b) because the deck is not new any more and hence people will be able to counter it better than when the guy first created it.
Around last July I played hearthstone a lot more than I do now(mostly due to having more time available) and I decided to start playing a new deck I had never played before:aggro paladin. Up until then the best rank I had ever gotten on hearthstone was 2, but that season not only did I get to legend but I managed to get to rank 157(which I considered quite a feat at the time). To give you an idea of the amount of work that went into that leap here's some of the things I did:
-Since I couldn't find a deck tracker that actually tracked not only which classes I played against, but also which actual decks I faced(example:control warrior or patron)I went ahead and made one myself using python. I started tracking my games using the program and began to take notice of what match ups I could improve or were frequent enough to actually tech the deck against them.
-After I gathered enough data, I began experimenting with different builds of the deck,changing cards around and seeing what mistakes I did on each game and what sort of removal was worth playing around against each deck(which IMO is the most important skill you can develop when using an aggro deck).
Needless to say that my rank started skyrocketing and I got from rank 5 to legend with little effort, eventually reaching rank 157.
I am not bragging about this or anything, I'm just trying to get my point across that anyone can do better at this game if they actually try to, in the right way. Also, to anyone who is going to say stuff like "lolz noob aggro player", I honestly do not give a crap about your opinion. I built my own deck, and succeeded with it by sheer work. And I have since became much better at playing other things like handlock,oil rogue and freeze mage, which I have also taken to legend(again, because I tried to get better with those decks). In fact, I would say many people could even reach a higher rank than I did if they were willing to put this amount of effort into it.
Another thing I would like to talk about is people who make completely invalid remarks about decks like face hunter or zoo being "broken" or "braindead" when in fact I have played both decks extensively and I can tell you that both require more brains to play than so called "hard decks" like dragon priest or midrange hunter(which I have also played extensively). While I do understand that aggro decks can be annoying to play against, they are necessary for game balance and are a completely valid strategy to use.
For the record I do realize that not everyone enjoys playing the game at a competitive/semi-competitive level, and that is totally fine. Even I enjoy just jumping into casual with some dumb deck like face priest or control hunter, or even in ranked when I am not in the mood for taking hearthstone as seriously, or university is being such a bitch that I can't do it even I want to. But if you don't want to be one, you should realise that your opinion about which decks and cards are "brainless"/"overpowered"/"just plain useless" is irrelevant.
I'll admit that it's sometimes annoying when people ask me about replacements for cards in my popular Control Warrior as if they can't think of cards themselves or when they're missing half the deck and lack the understanding that the deck won't work with only half the pieces.
Regardless a lot of people find more fun in playing the decks themselves than making them and don't want to have to deal with the trials and tribulations of making a deck because that's just not what they enjoy. Different people enjoy different parts of the game and you can't blame people for that.
I think the problem is that "the right way" is playing a very very restricted list of decks unless you want to put a massive number of hours of play to truly succeed. Back in GVG, I almost ( I was still ranking up with every session when the season ended, but truly didn't play enough to make it ) hit legend with an half-assed deck, simply because it's the month I played Hearthstone the most.
Theorically, being good enough to hit legend is only having a >50% winrate ( Even with less, a massive-enough number of game would statistically get you to Legend, but so would 1%, so, yeah, moot point ), but realistically being able to do it while playing rather casually requires drastically higher winrates that are only achieveable with a limited pool of decks that neither encompass all classes nor playstyles, let alone limited collections of cards.
I completely agree with the fact that hearthstone players suffer a severe sheep mentality, but the way you presented it was weak and I disagree. What you talked about was just an example of ignorance and arrogance. I think the real sheep mentality in this game is what cards are "playable". And then the biggest one: Facehunter and everything people say it is.
I'll admit that it's sometimes annoying when people ask me about replacements for cards in my popular Control Warrior as if they can't think of cards themselves or when they're missing half the deck and lack the understanding that the deck won't work with only half the pieces.
Regardless a lot of people find more fun in playing the decks themselves than making them and don't want to have to deal with the trials and tribulations of making a deck because that's just not what they enjoy. Different people enjoy different parts of the game and you can't blame people for that.
I realise that and 90% of the decks I play weren't even made by me, I just think it sucks that people copy and paste decks, fail with them and are not willing to actually invest more time in learning how to use them make threads on this forum saying it's the decks fault.
Basically my point is that people need to realise that having the correct cards in your deck is not enough to succeed with it.
I completely agree with the fact that hearthstone players suffer a severe sheep mentality, but the way you presented it was weak and I disagree. What you talked about was just an example of ignorance and arrogance. I think the real sheep mentality in this game is what cards are "playable". And then the biggest one: Facehunter and everything people say it is.
How was I "arrogant and ignorant" when I openly admit that anyone could reach as high a rank as I did or higher if they were willing to invest the required amount of time and effort to do so? The point is that people are not, and then proceed to blame it on the game or whoever built the deck they were using.
I completely agree with the fact that hearthstone players suffer a severe sheep mentality, but the way you presented it was weak and I disagree. What you talked about was just an example of ignorance and arrogance. I think the real sheep mentality in this game is what cards are "playable". And then the biggest one: Facehunter and everything people say it is.
How was I "arrogant and ignorant" when I openly admit that anyone could reach as high a rank as I did or higher if they were willing to invest the required amount of time and effort to do so? The point is that people are not, and then proceed to blame it on the game or whoever built the deck they were using.
I'm extremely sorry, i meant that players who post "terrible deck" when they aren't good enough to pilot it are arrogant and ignorant :P It was my mistake, I didn't make it clear in the post.
I completely agree with the fact that hearthstone players suffer a severe sheep mentality, but the way you presented it was weak and I disagree. What you talked about was just an example of ignorance and arrogance. I think the real sheep mentality in this game is what cards are "playable". And then the biggest one: Facehunter and everything people say it is.
How was I "arrogant and ignorant" when I openly admit that anyone could reach as high a rank as I did or higher if they were willing to invest the required amount of time and effort to do so? The point is that people are not, and then proceed to blame it on the game or whoever built the deck they were using.
I'm extremely sorry, i meant that players who post "terrible deck" when they aren't good enough to pilot it are arrogant and ignorant :P It was my mistake, I didn't make it clear in the post.
Oh,my bad then man. Yeah, I also agree that people dismiss a lot of cards or even complete decks as being bad just because their favourite streamer never used it during his stream, which is in fact a shame.
Yeah ok I agree people should learn deck building to improve their skill level, but you probably chose the worst example possible. Face pally has been a thing for close than 2 years now, you CAN'T make something new out of it, the core will always stay the same. Ok, you changed some tech cards, good for you, but that's definitely not what I'd call "innovating against the net decking" and not being a "sheep". Anyway, for me, based on the fact you provided, your point is invalid.
Yeah ok I agree people should learn deck building to improve their skill level, but you probably chose the worst example possible. Face pally has been a thing for close than 2 years now, you CAN'T make something new out of it, the core will always stay the same. Ok, you changed some tech cards, good for you, but that's definitely not what I'd call "innovating against the net decking" and not being a "sheep". Anyway, for me, based on the fact you provided, your point is invalid.
Sure the archetype has been around for two years, but it was nearly inexistent on ladder by the time I started trying it(although it became massively popular son after, for some reason), and the so called "tech cards" actually made enough of a difference to take me from rank 2 to rank 157 legend. Not to mention there is more to perfect your game play of a deck than having the right cards in it(which is the point I tried to get across with this thread).Knowing how to play each match up, what to play around and how to play around it is much more important than running said tech cards.
Anyway, I say your point is irrelevant, because I did not make this thread to brag, but rather to express my distaste for people approaching this game in a lazy fashion and then complaining about everything when they fail. Like all things in life, if you want to succeed at something, you should be prepared to work for it.
it's understandable that no one wants to try to find some new "unique" deck to play diceroll with, at the end of the day they're still playing diceroll
me too, when i read the posts of people on this forum or see the behaviour of people ingame, wether its BM or misplay, you would think that people are just 14 year old and have no idea what they do... but in the end its still a card game, which is not that easy to learn when you are still struggling with basic math (like my 9 year old nephew lol) so maybe the average age of 31 is true and people are just dicks haha
I am 38 and play daily now - I've been lurking since the beta, so I have a majority of the cards, only this is only my second season of play on the ladder. I have found that my own decks work really well before I ask people for advice to tweak them for that small piece it may be missing. With my original mage deck, I had put too much faith in others opinions and as such the deck was completely different and so ran into a lot of problems. I wish I would have created a second deck slot for the revamp because I have lost the original version of it. I have others that have evolved, but I wish I still had that one.
Players get frustrated with constant losses, and when they turn to netdecks that they do not know how to pilot, they get more frustrated. That in turns makes them toxic with the roping, bm-ing, etc. It safe to point out that it will never go away - especially as new expansions and adventures are released and newer players are forced to either buy backs, or hope Blizzard will have addressed that issue (either by quests giving packs, or buying individual cards, etc.)
me too, when i read the posts of people on this forum or see the behaviour of people ingame, wether its BM or misplay, you would think that people are just 14 year old and have no idea what they do... but in the end its still a card game, which is not that easy to learn when you are still struggling with basic math (like my 9 year old nephew lol) so maybe the average age of 31 is true and people are just dicks haha
It's important to differentiate between the average age of the players, and the average age of the forum posters, or average age of people who might friend you after a match to rage at you.
The game isnt in a state yet, where its so diverse that you can experiment freely, cause some cards just dont have a equal replacement, but slowly were getting there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
(Disclaimer:this thread is not meant to offend anyone or to be another salty thread by someone who is just angry at the game)
So after playing hearthstone for over a year now and after browsing this forum for a while, I am getting more and more the impression that people on this game suffer from a severe case of "sheep mentality". Society in general(particularly on the internet) tends to suffer from this, but hearthstone players are actually ridiculous, whether it be because of the age of the average HS player(which seems to be below 18 years old) or because twitch streams and youtube videos tend to foster this mindset. Hopefully I can make you understand why I get this feel and why I believe HS could be a much better game if the players themselves changed their attitude towards the game.
A key topic I want to address is deckbuilding. While I see no problem in basing your ideas off other people's decks, or even copying them card for card before making changes to suit your play style, or the current meta(and again, if you believe the deck to be just fine if you make no changes,then so be it), I can't help but wonder why do so many people even bother to copy whatever deck people like savjz, trump,etc are playing only to get stuck at rank 10 with it because they can't use it properly and then log onto this forum to claim the deck is "terrible". Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you are not doing well with the deck is because a)you suck with it and need to actually work to improve with it, just like the creator did and b) because the deck is not new any more and hence people will be able to counter it better than when the guy first created it.
Around last July I played hearthstone a lot more than I do now(mostly due to having more time available) and I decided to start playing a new deck I had never played before:aggro paladin. Up until then the best rank I had ever gotten on hearthstone was 2, but that season not only did I get to legend but I managed to get to rank 157(which I considered quite a feat at the time). To give you an idea of the amount of work that went into that leap here's some of the things I did:
-Since I couldn't find a deck tracker that actually tracked not only which classes I played against, but also which actual decks I faced(example:control warrior or patron)I went ahead and made one myself using python. I started tracking my games using the program and began to take notice of what match ups I could improve or were frequent enough to actually tech the deck against them.
-After I gathered enough data, I began experimenting with different builds of the deck,changing cards around and seeing what mistakes I did on each game and what sort of removal was worth playing around against each deck(which IMO is the most important skill you can develop when using an aggro deck).
Needless to say that my rank started skyrocketing and I got from rank 5 to legend with little effort, eventually reaching rank 157.
I am not bragging about this or anything, I'm just trying to get my point across that anyone can do better at this game if they actually try to, in the right way. Also, to anyone who is going to say stuff like "lolz noob aggro player", I honestly do not give a crap about your opinion. I built my own deck, and succeeded with it by sheer work. And I have since became much better at playing other things like handlock,oil rogue and freeze mage, which I have also taken to legend(again, because I tried to get better with those decks). In fact, I would say many people could even reach a higher rank than I did if they were willing to put this amount of effort into it.
Another thing I would like to talk about is people who make completely invalid remarks about decks like face hunter or zoo being "broken" or "braindead" when in fact I have played both decks extensively and I can tell you that both require more brains to play than so called "hard decks" like dragon priest or midrange hunter(which I have also played extensively). While I do understand that aggro decks can be annoying to play against, they are necessary for game balance and are a completely valid strategy to use.
For the record I do realize that not everyone enjoys playing the game at a competitive/semi-competitive level, and that is totally fine. Even I enjoy just jumping into casual with some dumb deck like face priest or control hunter, or even in ranked when I am not in the mood for taking hearthstone as seriously, or university is being such a bitch that I can't do it even I want to. But if you don't want to be one, you should realise that your opinion about which decks and cards are "brainless"/"overpowered"/"just plain useless" is irrelevant.
I'll admit that it's sometimes annoying when people ask me about replacements for cards in my popular Control Warrior as if they can't think of cards themselves or when they're missing half the deck and lack the understanding that the deck won't work with only half the pieces.
Regardless a lot of people find more fun in playing the decks themselves than making them and don't want to have to deal with the trials and tribulations of making a deck because that's just not what they enjoy. Different people enjoy different parts of the game and you can't blame people for that.
I think the problem is that "the right way" is playing a very very restricted list of decks unless you want to put a massive number of hours of play to truly succeed. Back in GVG, I almost ( I was still ranking up with every session when the season ended, but truly didn't play enough to make it ) hit legend with an half-assed deck, simply because it's the month I played Hearthstone the most.
Theorically, being good enough to hit legend is only having a >50% winrate ( Even with less, a massive-enough number of game would statistically get you to Legend, but so would 1%, so, yeah, moot point ), but realistically being able to do it while playing rather casually requires drastically higher winrates that are only achieveable with a limited pool of decks that neither encompass all classes nor playstyles, let alone limited collections of cards.
I completely agree with the fact that hearthstone players suffer a severe sheep mentality, but the way you presented it was weak and I disagree. What you talked about was just an example of ignorance and arrogance. I think the real sheep mentality in this game is what cards are "playable". And then the biggest one: Facehunter and everything people say it is.
Han Solo dies
Han Solo dies
Yeah ok I agree people should learn deck building to improve their skill level, but you probably chose the worst example possible. Face pally has been a thing for close than 2 years now, you CAN'T make something new out of it, the core will always stay the same. Ok, you changed some tech cards, good for you, but that's definitely not what I'd call "innovating against the net decking" and not being a "sheep". Anyway, for me, based on the fact you provided, your point is invalid.
xSnP
Very well written. Thank you a lot for the good read. I wish more players could see the game the same way you do.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-08-11-hearthstone-makes-usd20m-a-month-superdata
it's understandable that no one wants to try to find some new "unique" deck to play diceroll with, at the end of the day they're still playing diceroll
but in the end its still a card game, which is not that easy to learn when you are still struggling with basic math (like my 9 year old nephew lol) so maybe the average age of 31 is true and people are just dicks haha
Wait, what? An average hs player is OLDER than me? That's a bit rejuvenating and quite frankly disturbing, I'd say :D
I'll just leave this here:
I am 38 and play daily now - I've been lurking since the beta, so I have a majority of the cards, only this is only my second season of play on the ladder. I have found that my own decks work really well before I ask people for advice to tweak them for that small piece it may be missing. With my original mage deck, I had put too much faith in others opinions and as such the deck was completely different and so ran into a lot of problems. I wish I would have created a second deck slot for the revamp because I have lost the original version of it. I have others that have evolved, but I wish I still had that one.
Players get frustrated with constant losses, and when they turn to netdecks that they do not know how to pilot, they get more frustrated. That in turns makes them toxic with the roping, bm-ing, etc. It safe to point out that it will never go away - especially as new expansions and adventures are released and newer players are forced to either buy backs, or hope Blizzard will have addressed that issue (either by quests giving packs, or buying individual cards, etc.)
The game isnt in a state yet, where its so diverse that you can experiment freely, cause some cards just dont have a equal replacement, but slowly were getting there.