Hearthpwn

Quote from Kermit218 >>

Rotation would solve all the problems.  A constant changing format that encourages sales of the latest set to be competitive, and freeing up design space as the creators are no longer chained to older, more broken cards.

Wizards of the Coast figured this out over a decade ago.  Guess Blizz would rather make the same mistakes of the past instead of learning from it.

Well, it's not a bad idea but it's only the second year of the game.  A little early to be talking about rotation.

Quote from Baumrinde55 >>

Freeze mage reks them all xD

Your deck is slaughtered by my Silent Druid.  Which actually brings up a good point.  Sometimes it's all about the matchup and not the decks themselves.

Quote from Mpfranke >>

Druids and secret paladin already ruin fun on ladder. I actually was looking forward to playing against PW. No we will see even more of the brainless paladins and druids. Good job blizzard. Looking forward to more turn 2/3 felreavers

well tech in a second BGH oin whatever deck yo  play and youre fine

Can someone who actually plays the game seriously be put in charge of development? Patron is VERY clearly not the monster it was pre-TGT, so why the fuck wait to nerf it until it ISN'T a problem? Good fucking god.

OP : Are you serious. Ben Brode spends most of his time analyzing this game. Stop the bullshit. 

Patron was still a monster post-TGT. This thread is nothing but a salty one.

Quote from Remhouse >>

Can someone who actually plays the game seriously be put in charge of development? Patron is VERY clearly not the monster it was pre-TGT, so why the fuck wait to nerf it until it ISN'T a problem? Good fucking god.

 

 

OP : Are you serious. Ben Brode spends most of his time analyzing this game. Stop the bullshit. 

Patron was still a monster post-TGT. This thread is nothing but a salty one.

well its still the most dominant deck - exspecially in the tournament scene - you either play patron in your line up or try to counter patron with your whole line up

they might have done this to get room for designing new stuff again (thats my guess - besides that warsong is a soulbound card)

Although i guess the better way would have been to just nerf the freaking frothing berserker

The Most interesting thing about the patch is: We will see a Blizzcon Final without Patron Warriors (Yeay)

The Most interesting thing about the patch is: We will see a Blizzcon Final without Patron Warriors (Yeay)

So you are saying that you expect people to have any other decks exept Secret Paladin, Combo Druid and Zoolock/Handlock or Midrange/Face hunter? Maaaaybe some mech deck.
I think, there will be nothing interesting in the Blizzcon finals if I'm right.

Although I hope I will be proven wrong.

Warsong Commander was in fact the source of many problems. It laid so many restrictions on card design in combination with Patron and Frothing or generally how any 3 or less attack creature will be designed. It's effect can easily be a 5 cost legendary or whatever so the nerf is reasonable. And let's not forget that this card is a basic card. You get it for free so it's good enough, only the fact that it's yet another shitty Warrior card is the problem, but since Blizzard is aware of this, I'd assume that Warsong was actually one of the reasons why they couldn't just add new interesting Warrior cards instead. The entire Patron deck was build for synergy. I can't think of anything close to it.

I keep hearing about "oh no but Paladin inc". Seriously, just wait and see how it works out. I'm playing boring old Midrange decks and compete almost all decks. Secret Paladin was never a problem, that all in turn just seems overwhelming but the tools to beat it exist in most class collections already...

I really don't understand why anybody is bothered by a card nobody played 6 months ago becoming unplayable again.. the comparison to a weaker raid leader is fair, but nobody plays raid leader either... what is the point of talking about 2 cards you never played 6 months ago and won't be playing now

if anything people should just be happy it was given a 6 month buff, how many other cards have they done that for

Finally! It's about time Warsong Commander was nerfed.

The only reason I'm happy for the nerf is the following: Blizzard is showing consistency. Months (maybe a year?) ago, when Miracle Rogue's tools were nerfed to oblviion (6 mana Auctioneer and 5 mana Leeroy), Blizzard gave a clear and well-thought-out explanation. They did not like it when certain decks killed you in 1 turn. Simple as that. And let's be fair, is it fun? You're sitting in hand with all the removal you might need to counter that OTK combo, yet you can't do shit cause Hearthstone doesn't allow instant-speed casts like MTG Instants and Yugioh Trap Cards. I remember laddering with my Druid deck back in the day, I may have had Swipes in hand but I could not use them on that pesky Leeroy. And I died. From 28 HP. With my Taunts getting prep-sapped. 

Whenever my friends asked me "Hey Dal, whatcha think about Patron Warrior?" that's always the answer I gave them. Yes, it CAN be played around (by certain classes) so you don't get swarmed by the Patrons, but the problem was the OTK kill Frothing Berserker could offer. It was not logical for Blizz to nerf one OTK combo deck such as Miracle Rogue and not the other OTK combo which was Patron Warr. 

Also, the other OTK combo deck (Freeze Mage) actually needs some setup to pull off, so it's fine. (I do remember seeing a mage do the following though: Sorceror's Apprentice, Sorceror's Apprentice, Ancient Mage in between. 8 mana used, 2 spellpower on board. Frostbolt x2 for 0 mana and 10 dmg, Icelance x2 for 0 mana and 12 dmg, and Fireball for 2 mana for the remaining 8 dmg).

Quote from DjRhodes >>

You could in theory with the 6 and 4 drop shredders go infinite with Warsong and Dreadstead, a little over the top but fun to think of. But I understand the need to kill this card. For those of you that played MTG Snapcaster Mage was a thorn for the devs to produce new cards. I can completely understanding them nerfing Warsong so they can produce other cards that won't allow them to be game breaking with the affect still available. The meta will constantly change and I am glad, it keeps the game fresh and forces ppl do develop new strats and skills with other decks. By the way for a F2P you can't really QQ to hard. Not to disappointing this card is getting nerfed and for those that are, wow some of you seem like you are so entitled.

I feel like Birthing Pod would have been a better example here since that's the one that WotC actually did ban. As far as I'm aware, Snapcaster Mage is still alive and thorny. 

My guess for now is, that not secet paladin but Zoo will maybe become strong again - then letz be honest - it counters so much stuff at once - exspecially druids which are so popular 

Quote from Timeiscandy >>

Quote from DjRhodes >>

You could in theory with the 6 and 4 drop shredders go infinite with Warsong and Dreadstead, a little over the top but fun to think of. But I understand the need to kill this card. For those of you that played MTG Snapcaster Mage was a thorn for the devs to produce new cards. I can completely understanding them nerfing Warsong so they can produce other cards that won't allow them to be game breaking with the affect still available. The meta will constantly change and I am glad, it keeps the game fresh and forces ppl do develop new strats and skills with other decks. By the way for a F2P you can't really QQ to hard. Not to disappointing this card is getting nerfed and for those that are, wow some of you seem like you are so entitled.

I feel like Birthing Pod would have been a better example here since that's the one that WotC actually did ban. As far as I'm aware, Snapcaster Mage is still alive and thorny. 

Birthing Pod became OP cause it started sending Siege Rhinos in the battlefield...same way both Dig Through Time AND Treasure Cruise got completely banned from everything except Standard, they just broke decks COMPLETELY  in Modern & Legacy. Firing off a T3 Cruise/Dig was phenomenally easy with all the Fetch-lands and 1 mana cantrips, not so much the case in Standard. OTOH, Snapcaster is still rocking solid, played in any deck that runs Blue as a colour and has had his price tag upped to around 80 dollars a piece. I'm just wondering what they're gonna do about Jace, Vryn's Prodigy...people started playing him in Legacy =/

Quote from thepoxbox >>

Well the few times I've heard him speak, he seems to get some design ideas and a lot of things he says are true.
There's also a lot of information he has access to that we don't.

That said, I think it's clear that the metagame crystalizes way faster than they'd hoped and they need to stop waiting months and months for obvious nerfs. 

I think they still believe that the metagame is ever in motion and that people would somehow have figured out a patron counter. That's just not how it works and we've seen that. People figure out the best decks REALLY FAST and you can have a pretty good idea of what to nerf within like a month of release. 
So whatever criteria they are using to actually pull the trigger, they should just apply 1-2 months after a release and stop hoping that things will fix themselves, because they don't and won't.

And side note, I'm fine with them killing decks or cards. The patron warrior playstyle is really crap for this game, I don't really want to see them attempt to make it "fair" over the course of 2-3 years, changing warsong, patron and frothing bit by bit until they're still used a lot, but not "unfair'. Just kill the deck and move on.

I would disagree with that, for a few reasons. While I do think it becomes pretty clear what the best decks are pretty quickly, I would really hate for them to take the approach you suggest. I feel like it would discourage people from trying to solve the meta and instead would encourage them to simply find the best decks in the abstract, rather than the ones that are good against the other good decks. Good decks are found quickly, but the ones most suited to the meta take a little more time to evolve. Also, people wouldn't even try as hard to make the decks if as soon as something was obviously good they'd expect it to be nerfed. This might also discourage people from crafting certain cards if they thought a nerf was likely.

I also get the feeling that the more nerfs they hand out the more people are going to complain. Obviously there will be people that complain about the nerfs themselves, but the real problem would be the same crowd of people that are always crying for nerfs. If they see it as something Blizzard is willing to do often and quickly, then they are just going to get more vocal and whiny, demanding faster and faster nerfs to more and more cards. That's not something I think Blizzard should really open themselves up to, so I'm fine with their current strategy even if it sometimes feels like it takes a while. Besides, in this case I almost never played against Patrons anyway so it didn't feel like it mattered all that much for the ladder. 

This does give room to freeze mage and zoo warlock.

Quote from Human_Guy >>

Quote from Brewmaster >>

Honestly, I do not think Patron decks will die. But they will chance, since it's a big blow in the archtype. But it is sad. This deck, although being powerful, is no OP. There are lots of ways to play around that combo.

What pisses me is that they manage to seriously nerf a good adventure card by nerfing another tool. And the fact that lots of people that cried for the nerfbat are now saying that it was too much.

Have not laughed as much in days. IT IS DEAD! Remember how everyone laughed at this card on reveal? Because without charge this card doesn't do shit. There is no way you can use this card without warsong. Or have you seen ANY other deck use grim patron? No? 

Also nerfing =/= destroying a card. Remember sylvanas on 5 mana? Remember UTH at 2 mana? Still played, still good. Remember Starving buzzard nerf? No one asked for a 5 mana 3/2. NO ONE! They did it anyway. And it sucks about as much as this nerf.

You're an idiot.  Raid Leader exists, and it is well known to be garbage.  Warsong is now a worse Raid Leader.   Simple logic.

Quote from thepoxbox >>

Quote from Timeiscandy >>

something Blizzard is willing to do often and quickly

They could just do like MTG does and have a schedule for announcing nerfs. 
Like 3 times a year or whatever, in-between releases. 

That's clearly a way better approach than their current one.

Well if we're taking all our cues from WotC then you're going to have to wait a long time for some nerfs. Like, years. Also the only format they consistently ban stuff in is Modern, and a lot of people really don't like the approach they're taking with that format. If Patron had been a thing in MTG, it probably would have taken years to see a ban. Many of the cards that were more broken and dominant in Modern were around a lot longer than Patron was in Hearthstone. 

The combo has existed forever, and is a 9 mana 14 damage combo.  To get more you have to have more minions already on the board.  If you lose 30+HP in a turn, you probably suck.