Before you ask, no this is not a rage thread about me losing 10051 games do to bad rng. I have mostly been playing tempo mage and dragon priest this season to rank up and I have realised that every game is more or less won by turn 5 based on how get and holds field control. I get a good curve I win I get a bad curve I lose. My opponent floods the board: I get aoe I win I don't get aoe I lose. I am just feeling that there is a lot more rng(Luck of the draw) then skill involved and it kinda bothers me. Yes, there is skill in saving cards and mullinging but you won't always get the card you need to being with. I just feel that HS needs more tutoring cards like tracking and captains parrot.
I get a good curve I win I get a bad curve I lose. My opponent floods the board: I get aoe I win I don't get aoe I lose.
What happens when you get a good curve and the opponent floods the board and you don't get AoE? Or when you get a bad curve and your opponent floods the board but you do get AoE?
The curve problem is not luck/RNG, because you chose the curve when you designed your deck. There's a reason why aggro decks are much more consistent than other decks.
Similarly, you chose the amount of AoEs in your deck (or AoE equivalents, like taunts).
It sounds like your problem is meta positioning, rather than the luck of the draw. (Of course I'm not saying that luck is entirely irrelevant though. You win some, you lose some.)
Most of the time if I have field control my opponent flooding the board is not a big deal, do to me being able to trade effectively as I choose. (This is more true with dragon priest do to healing)
The only answer to this question, and any question about RNG in Hearthstone - is that RNG can have a very large impact over any individual, or small sample of games. You can and will win and lose games based almost entirely on RNG. Skill has a greater impact over a large number of games. Over a long period of time the luck factor will even out, if you play optimally over that period you'll win a lot more often than you lose - play poorly and you'll lose a lot more often than you win.
The majority of the time, I feel its less "who draws better" and more of "who draws worse". Your deck should be built in a way where you can hope to draw something useful a good portion of the time (whether its on curve, or one of the many cards your deck is designed around). But if your deck consists of a handful of 5+ drops and your opening hand is all 5+ drops, you're already at a disadvantage unless you top-deck like a boss for the first few turns.
On the other hand, lets say you have a plethora of 1-3 drops in your deck. If you opening hand is two Elven Archers and a Power Overwhelming, well that's not a great opening hand by any means but at least you can play stuff, making it better than an unplayable hand early on.
Well I currently have about 80% rate but thats from rank 10 to 5 so I don't think it counts for much. My problem is that most of the games just comes down to me playing on curve setting up a field, looking my opponent deep in the eyes noticing that he/she does not have an answer and snowball to victory. It just feel really cheap, it's like we are playing clash with our decks.
The game is only as strategic as the deck you make. It is true that luck does play a part in this game, however a large part of the game is making your deck more consistent. You may notice that good players will win far more games than bad players,
Anyone who has experience with card games understands that there is far more strategy than meets the eye. This is a multilayer game; from the cards your opponent plays you can play around certain cards or take advantage of situations. In the deck building stage you can also be certain that from a certain point in the game you will usually have a certain card or combo. From this you can be a better player.
I would suggest that if you do not like inconsistency that you do not play tempo mage, it is infamous for being bad due to it's reliance on good draws.
Anyone who has experience with card games understands that there is far more strategy than meets the eye.
I have played a lot of card games over the years(Started when I was about 10) but I feel that HS just mostly comes down to deck building do to the lack of good consistent search cards. Most decks are fairly easy to play and most trades are obvious.(I am saying most not all)
I would suggest that if you do not like inconsistency that you do not play tempo mage, it is infamous for being bad due to it's inconsistency.
If RNG is causing you to lose more games than you win then the deck you have is not a good one. RNG certainly has an impact but decks should be constructed that limits just how much RNG plays into it.
It's a card game. If you were to get godly draws 95% of the time, it wouldn't make sense. If you're having problems drawing what you need then change your deck to better suit the meta.
I get a good curve I win I get a bad curve I lose. My opponent floods the board: I get aoe I win I don't get aoe I lose.
What happens when you get a good curve and the opponent floods the board and you don't get AoE? Or when you get a bad curve and your opponent floods the board but you do get AoE?
The curve problem is not luck/RNG, because you chose the curve when you designed your deck. There's a reason why aggro decks are much more consistent than other decks.
Similarly, you chose the amount of AoEs in your deck (or AoE equivalents, like taunts).
It sounds like your problem is meta positioning, rather than the luck of the draw. (Of course I'm not saying that luck is entirely irrelevant though. You win some, you lose some.)
AoE equivalents, like taunts ? I could never disagree more with a sentence.
AoE offers permanent results while taunt are temporary. Making the difference is crucial.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Anyone who has experience with card games understands that there is far more strategy than meets the eye.
I have played a lot of card games over the years(Started when I was about 10) but I feel that HS just mostly comes down to deck building do to the lack of good consistent search cards. Most decks are fairly easy to play and most trades are obvious.(I am saying most not all)
I would suggest that if you do not like inconsistency that you do not play tempo mage, it is infamous for being bad due to it's inconsistency.
What do you recommed that I play?
Without knowing your card collection or what playing style you enjoy I cannot advise a deck that you should play. But in general more consistent decks are aggro decks that have a lot of early game card (guaranteeing that your deck will always be one curve), combo decks (grim patron / combo druid / freeze mage can almost always combo off by a certain turn ) or a control deck that has enough stalling tactics.
This may be do to my bad english, but I think you have misunderstood something. I am winning more games then I am losing. Most people on ladder netdeck or semi netdecks(So people are basically on the same footing) do to this I feel that most games come down to how draws better. (Not counting bad match ups) and I feel like this could be fixed by adding searcher cards like tracking and captain parrots. (These types of cards exist plentyfully in more or less every other card games except for HS)
Anyone who has experience with card games understands that there is far more strategy than meets the eye.
I have played a lot of card games over the years(Started when I was about 10) but I feel that HS just mostly comes down to deck building do to the lack of good consistent search cards. Most decks are fairly easy to play and most trades are obvious.(I am saying most not all)
I would suggest that if you do not like inconsistency that you do not play tempo mage, it is infamous for being bad due to it's inconsistency.
What do you recommed that I play?
Without knowing your card collection or what playing style you enjoy I cannot advise a deck that you should play. But in general more consistent decks are aggro decks that have a lot of early game card (guaranteeing that your deck will always be one curve), combo decks (grim patron / combo druid / freeze mage can almost always combo off by a certain turn ) or a control deck that has enough stalling tactics.
You want stalling mechanics. Play chess.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Without knowing your card collection or what playing style you enjoy I cannot advise a deck that you should play. But in general more consistent decks are aggro decks that have a lot of early game card (guaranteeing that your deck will always be one curve), combo decks (grim patron / combo druid / freeze mage can almost always combo off by a certain turn ) or a control deck that has enough stalling tactics.
I own more or less every card(Good/okaish) in the game. (I have been playing for a long time) I like most play styles but not stall. (Frezze mage..etc)
Honestly, I think it's the opposite. Other card games allow you to have extremely large decks, whilst Hearthstone is set at 30. In my opinion, that's what makes the game unique when comparing it to others. Sure, there are other things, but for me that fact really stands out. With how the game is set up currently, you can't really hand pick specific cards out of your deck and it needs to stay that way. Efficient card drawing is an entire aspect to the game that always needs to be considered. I don't want to play Hearthstone if you're able to get your specific combo pieces 9/10 times by turn 5. That would break the game. A few cards here and there (Mysterious Challenger,Captain's Parrot) is fine, but introducing more than a couple will make the game unplayable.
While you may have fewer cards in a Hs deck you also start with less and can also use less copies then most other games, in some cases you also draw less. So in my opinion there is not a huge difference between HS and other card games in that area.
Rank has a lot to do with the situation btw. Many people deem Patron as an easy deck to wield because they are winning most of their matches. THat's because the lower ranks (as in below rank 5) typically do not know how to play against the deck and, thus, makes very exploitable mistakes. All good decks have a low skill floor that crushes weak players and/or weak decks while occasionally netting 'God Draws' that win against everything. The result is the feeling that you aren't even trying and that most of your games are about whether you draw properly.
Once you get into the pro scene or higher legendary, then any mistakes in your play become very amplified as your opponent will be making fewer of their own. Most of the difficulty is still in getting the right deck, which is the nature of any card game, but not knowing your deck, your opponent's deck, or proper game analysis will cause you to hit a wall you can't get past over the long haul, instead going up and down depending on today's luck but essentually staying at about the same place.
Note that it won't be as difficult as MTG. That's the nature of HS as it's not trying to be as complex as MTG. Still, there IS a skill difference that you'll only feel once you get past your natural rank. Grind and card quality isn't the only thing stopping most people from Rank 1 legendary.
Also note that deck type makes a BIG difference. In HS, mixed matches (Aggro vs Control, Midrange vs Aggro) Tend to run by the books, card wise while mirror matches present a lot more mental work (that includes aggro vs aggro which gets into some odd dance between trading and facing). Combo and Midrange decks tend to have the most to think about in general. Face and Tempo tend to be the most mindless while Aggro, Ramp and Control aren't far behind (yes Control isn't that thought provoking if you aren't facing a Control opponent). Again, this is AFTER you hit the higher skill levels, both for yourself and your opponent.
vs. Control, it's more about predicting your opponent's hand and deck.
vs. Aggro, yes, it's draw the right card or lose.
vs aggro there is : Do I play Hellfire now and clean the stuff or do I wait one turn for a bigger extension of the opponent and thus leading it to a kind of a bluff.
There is way more counterplay then just the ... draw right or bust.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
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Before you ask, no this is not a rage thread about me losing 10051 games do to bad rng. I have mostly been playing tempo mage and dragon priest this season to rank up and I have realised that every game is more or less won by turn 5 based on how get and holds field control. I get a good curve I win I get a bad curve I lose. My opponent floods the board: I get aoe I win I don't get aoe I lose. I am just feeling that there is a lot more rng(Luck of the draw) then skill involved and it kinda bothers me. Yes, there is skill in saving cards and mullinging but you won't always get the card you need to being with. I just feel that HS needs more tutoring cards like tracking and captains parrot.
What happens when you get a good curve and the opponent floods the board and you don't get AoE? Or when you get a bad curve and your opponent floods the board but you do get AoE?
The curve problem is not luck/RNG, because you chose the curve when you designed your deck. There's a reason why aggro decks are much more consistent than other decks.
Similarly, you chose the amount of AoEs in your deck (or AoE equivalents, like taunts).
It sounds like your problem is meta positioning, rather than the luck of the draw. (Of course I'm not saying that luck is entirely irrelevant though. You win some, you lose some.)
Most of the time if I have field control my opponent flooding the board is not a big deal, do to me being able to trade effectively as I choose. (This is more true with dragon priest do to healing)
The only answer to this question, and any question about RNG in Hearthstone - is that RNG can have a very large impact over any individual, or small sample of games. You can and will win and lose games based almost entirely on RNG. Skill has a greater impact over a large number of games. Over a long period of time the luck factor will even out, if you play optimally over that period you'll win a lot more often than you lose - play poorly and you'll lose a lot more often than you win.
The majority of the time, I feel its less "who draws better" and more of "who draws worse". Your deck should be built in a way where you can hope to draw something useful a good portion of the time (whether its on curve, or one of the many cards your deck is designed around). But if your deck consists of a handful of 5+ drops and your opening hand is all 5+ drops, you're already at a disadvantage unless you top-deck like a boss for the first few turns.
On the other hand, lets say you have a plethora of 1-3 drops in your deck. If you opening hand is two Elven Archers and a Power Overwhelming, well that's not a great opening hand by any means but at least you can play stuff, making it better than an unplayable hand early on.
Well I currently have about 80% rate but thats from rank 10 to 5 so I don't think it counts for much. My problem is that most of the games just comes down to me playing on curve setting up a field, looking my opponent deep in the eyes noticing that he/she does not have an answer and snowball to victory. It just feel really cheap, it's like we are playing clash with our decks.
The game is only as strategic as the deck you make. It is true that luck does play a part in this game, however a large part of the game is making your deck more consistent. You may notice that good players will win far more games than bad players,
Anyone who has experience with card games understands that there is far more strategy than meets the eye. This is a multilayer game; from the cards your opponent plays you can play around certain cards or take advantage of situations. In the deck building stage you can also be certain that from a certain point in the game you will usually have a certain card or combo. From this you can be a better player.
I would suggest that if you do not like inconsistency that you do not play tempo mage, it is infamous for being bad due to it's reliance on good draws.
Well played...
Anyone who has experience with card games understands that there is far more strategy than meets the eye.
I have played a lot of card games over the years(Started when I was about 10) but I feel that HS just mostly comes down to deck building do to the lack of good consistent search cards. Most decks are fairly easy to play and most trades are obvious.(I am saying most not all)
I would suggest that if you do not like inconsistency that you do not play tempo mage, it is infamous for being bad due to it's inconsistency.
What do you recommed that I play?
If RNG is causing you to lose more games than you win then the deck you have is not a good one. RNG certainly has an impact but decks should be constructed that limits just how much RNG plays into it.
It's a card game. If you were to get godly draws 95% of the time, it wouldn't make sense. If you're having problems drawing what you need then change your deck to better suit the meta.
No Karazhan. No League of Explorers. No Problem.
AoE equivalents, like taunts ? I could never disagree more with a sentence.
AoE offers permanent results while taunt are temporary. Making the difference is crucial.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Without knowing your card collection or what playing style you enjoy I cannot advise a deck that you should play. But in general more consistent decks are aggro decks that have a lot of early game card (guaranteeing that your deck will always be one curve), combo decks (grim patron / combo druid / freeze mage can almost always combo off by a certain turn ) or a control deck that has enough stalling tactics.
Well played...
This may be do to my bad english, but I think you have misunderstood something. I am winning more games then I am losing. Most people on ladder netdeck or semi netdecks(So people are basically on the same footing) do to this I feel that most games come down to how draws better. (Not counting bad match ups) and I feel like this could be fixed by adding searcher cards like tracking and captain parrots. (These types of cards exist plentyfully in more or less every other card games except for HS)
You want stalling mechanics. Play chess.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Without knowing your card collection or what playing style you enjoy I cannot advise a deck that you should play. But in general more consistent decks are aggro decks that have a lot of early game card (guaranteeing that your deck will always be one curve), combo decks (grim patron / combo druid / freeze mage can almost always combo off by a certain turn ) or a control deck that has enough stalling tactics.
I own more or less every card(Good/okaish) in the game. (I have been playing for a long time) I like most play styles but not stall. (Frezze mage..etc)
Honestly, I think it's the opposite. Other card games allow you to have extremely large decks, whilst Hearthstone is set at 30. In my opinion, that's what makes the game unique when comparing it to others. Sure, there are other things, but for me that fact really stands out. With how the game is set up currently, you can't really hand pick specific cards out of your deck and it needs to stay that way. Efficient card drawing is an entire aspect to the game that always needs to be considered. I don't want to play Hearthstone if you're able to get your specific combo pieces 9/10 times by turn 5. That would break the game. A few cards here and there (Mysterious Challenger,Captain's Parrot) is fine, but introducing more than a couple will make the game unplayable.
No Karazhan. No League of Explorers. No Problem.
While you may have fewer cards in a Hs deck you also start with less and can also use less copies then most other games, in some cases you also draw less. So in my opinion there is not a huge difference between HS and other card games in that area.
Rank has a lot to do with the situation btw. Many people deem Patron as an easy deck to wield because they are winning most of their matches. THat's because the lower ranks (as in below rank 5) typically do not know how to play against the deck and, thus, makes very exploitable mistakes. All good decks have a low skill floor that crushes weak players and/or weak decks while occasionally netting 'God Draws' that win against everything. The result is the feeling that you aren't even trying and that most of your games are about whether you draw properly.
Once you get into the pro scene or higher legendary, then any mistakes in your play become very amplified as your opponent will be making fewer of their own. Most of the difficulty is still in getting the right deck, which is the nature of any card game, but not knowing your deck, your opponent's deck, or proper game analysis will cause you to hit a wall you can't get past over the long haul, instead going up and down depending on today's luck but essentually staying at about the same place.
Note that it won't be as difficult as MTG. That's the nature of HS as it's not trying to be as complex as MTG. Still, there IS a skill difference that you'll only feel once you get past your natural rank. Grind and card quality isn't the only thing stopping most people from Rank 1 legendary.
Also note that deck type makes a BIG difference. In HS, mixed matches (Aggro vs Control, Midrange vs Aggro) Tend to run by the books, card wise while mirror matches present a lot more mental work (that includes aggro vs aggro which gets into some odd dance between trading and facing). Combo and Midrange decks tend to have the most to think about in general. Face and Tempo tend to be the most mindless while Aggro, Ramp and Control aren't far behind (yes Control isn't that thought provoking if you aren't facing a Control opponent). Again, this is AFTER you hit the higher skill levels, both for yourself and your opponent.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
vs. Control, it's more about predicting your opponent's hand and deck.
vs. Aggro, yes, it's draw the right card or lose.
Meta changes the moment you switch your deck.
vs aggro there is : Do I play Hellfire now and clean the stuff or do I wait one turn for a bigger extension of the opponent and thus leading it to a kind of a bluff.
There is way more counterplay then just the ... draw right or bust.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.