Why would they need to be nerfed? they have counters just like everything else.
Although I personally play a HandLock Giants deck, I feel that molten giant's summoning parameter is way too good. Being able to drop 8/8s at 0 mana is not acceptable for any amount of health. Im not calling for a significant nerf, but perhaps a small rework on the flavor text. Perhaps "This minion costs 1 less for each point of damage you have taken, but no less than (3)".
Why would they need to be nerfed? they have counters just like everything else.
Although I personally play a HandLock Giants deck, I feel that molten giant's summoning parameter is way too good. Being able to drop 8/8s at 0 mana is not acceptable for any amount of health. Im not calling for a significant nerf, but perhaps a small rework on the flavor text. Perhaps "This minion costs 1 less for each point of damage you have taken, but no less than (3)".
I like the "no less than x" idea. It's not a significant nerf, but enough that it's not totally unfair.
I've suggested this before, but giving a molten giant a minimum cost of 3 would be fair, and I suppose you may as well put that on mountain giant as well (since it will almost never cost less than that anyway). I think mountain giant is more-or-less fine. You will naturally take damage as the game goes on, so molten giant doesn't carry any risk. However, you have to sacrifice your tempo to get a faster mountain giant.
Why would they need to be nerfed? they have counters just like everything else.
Although I personally play a HandLock Giants deck, I feel that molten giant's summoning parameter is way too good. Being able to drop 8/8s at 0 mana is not acceptable for any amount of health. Im not calling for a significant nerf, but perhaps a small rework on the flavor text. Perhaps "This minion costs 1 less for each point of damage you have taken, but no less than (3)".
I like the "no less than x" idea. It's not a significant nerf, but enough that it's not totally unfair.
Precisely what I was getting at :D It would be ideal for it to be more in line with the philosophy behind Summoning Portal's limitation.
I've suggested this before, but giving a molten giant a minimum cost of 3 would be fair, and I suppose you may as well put that on mountain giant as well
Agreed. The major idea is just getting rid of the possibility of doing 2x Molten giants -> Defender of Argus starting on turn 3 or 4 depending on if you have coin or innervate.
I started playing paladin because this combo just irritated me to much, pyro+equality is just about the only thing that can wipe them.
Yea. Pretty much one of the major reasons why the meta even shifted towards Black Knights were the Molten+Argus/Sunfury combos. Tirion, Ironbark, ancient of war were never big enough threats themselves to cause a meta shift by themselves, the giants pushed it over the top.
Those weird threads demanding nerfs of perfectly balanced cards always make me laugh. The dominant decks at the moment dont even run giants.
The popularity-Strength correlation argument. Popular decks are unjustly nerfed not for their power, but for their popularity. Likewise, unpopularity of a card does not imply weakness.
I started playing paladin because this combo just irritated me to much, pyro+equality is just about the only thing that can wipe them.
Assassinate, Shadow Word Death, Big Game Hunter, Hunters Mark/anything with charge or something like Arcane Shot(even a 1/1 boar is fine), deal one damage to it SOMEHOW whether its a minion's ability or a cheap minion you have on the field and execute, do I need to go on?
The major idea is just getting rid of the possibility of doing 2x Molten giants -> Defender of Argus starting on turn 3 or 4
lmao, you are saying the situation where the enemy has taken 20 damage by turn 3 or 4 and their hand consists of 2 molten giants, innervate, and defender of argus happens often enough that you think it needs to be nerfed.
We got a term for this in the scientific community: BULLSHIT
The major idea is just getting rid of the possibility of doing 2x Molten giants -> Defender of Argus starting on turn 3 or 4
lmao, you are saying the situation where the enemy has taken 20 damage by turn 3 or 4 and their hand consists of 2 molten giants, innervate, and defender of argus happens often enough that you think it needs to be nerfed.
We got a term for this in the scientific community: BULLSHIT
First of all, I really don't see the point in the flaming. Second of all, the point isn't that players are likely to play them on turn 3-4, the point is that it is available starting at that point. And this isn't even the reason why 3 mana minimum change would be nice.
Those weird threads demanding nerfs of perfectly balanced cards always make me laugh. The dominant decks at the moment dont even run giants.
The popularity-Strength correlation argument. Popular decks are unjustly nerfed not for their power, but for their popularity. Likewise, unpopularity of a card does not imply weakness.
So you are suggesting a nerf for something that isnt even being played in high ranks? When it gets popular again, then you make that thread. But guess what, It wont because its perfectly balanced. If it was broken it wouldnt have gotten out of the meta.
The thread is just a litmus test for a small change to molten that was popularly suggested. I'm not trying to push any nerfs, nor was I ever in complaint with the giants. Besides, Blizzard seems to nerf based on popularity.
I really can only assume that it's people who runs giants who are against nerfing it. I have on multiple times has a lock hellfire the board, play dual giants and sunfury/argus them. I don't see how anyone could see a class being able to clear or almost clear your entire board, put dual 8/8s on the board and add taunt in one turn as balanced. Also the odds of pulling dual clears by turn 6/7 isn't extremely high.
people acting like, "Super easy to deal with" are silly. One on the board, maybe so but they are almost always dropped in pairs with taunt. When you have a class that can artificially lower their health while drawing the cards needed it makes Molten Giant Broken. Mountain due to card size limits already has a cap on how cheap it can be played. I see no reason why Molten shouldn't be the same. even a 2 mana minimum at least gives the other player a chance to draw the needed clears which balances things out far more. I also don't think the argument that "if Blizzard hasn't fixed it yer it must be balanced." Is right either.
I really can only assume that it's people who runs giants who are against nerfing it. I have on multiple times has a lock hellfire the board, play dual giants and sunfury/argus them. I don't see how anyone could see a class being able to clear or almost clear your entire board, put dual 8/8s on the board and add taunt in one turn as balanced. Also the odds of pulling dual clears by turn 6/7 isn't extremely high.
people acting like, "Super easy to deal with" are silly. One on the board, maybe so but they are almost always dropped in pairs with taunt. When you have a class that can artificially lower their health while drawing the cards needed it makes Molten Giant Broken. Mountain due to card size limits already has a cap on how cheap it can be played. I see no reason why Molten shouldn't be the same. even a 2 mana minimum at least gives the other player a chance to draw the needed clears which balances things out far more. I also don't think the argument that "if Blizzard hasn't fixed it yer it must be balanced." Is right either.
OP here. Yea, I like that you brought up the synergy with warlock's hero power. All solid points. I actually play giants myself, but I don't mind speaking up about this.
We had this discussion before [1] and I'll stick with my vote for all of the above: minimum cost, slight reduction in base stats, addition of secondary traits to reinforce their purported intentions as counters and make Big Game a 3/3.
I really can only assume that it's people who runs giants who are against nerfing it. I have on multiple times has a lock hellfire the board, play dual giants and sunfury/argus them. I don't see how anyone could see a class being able to clear or almost clear your entire board, put dual 8/8s on the board and add taunt in one turn as balanced. Also the odds of pulling dual clears by turn 6/7 isn't extremely high.
people acting like, "Super easy to deal with" are silly. One on the board, maybe so but they are almost always dropped in pairs with taunt. When you have a class that can artificially lower their health while drawing the cards needed it makes Molten Giant Broken. Mountain due to card size limits already has a cap on how cheap it can be played. I see no reason why Molten shouldn't be the same. even a 2 mana minimum at least gives the other player a chance to draw the needed clears which balances things out far more. I also don't think the argument that "if Blizzard hasn't fixed it yer it must be balanced." Is right either.
I don't think I have any giants unless you get them in the basic set, but whenever I am playing against somebody and they play a giant against me, I have the tools(cards) to dispose of them relatively quickly, and once I've killed 2-3 of their giants in a row, they surrender. You're just assuming stuff by saying that the ones who are against the nerf, plays them. You have to build your deck around them.
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How will you make changes to the three giants? Minimum cost to summon? Stricter summoning parameters? Less health/attack?
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
Why would they need to be nerfed? they have counters just like everything else.
Although I personally play a HandLock Giants deck, I feel that molten giant's summoning parameter is way too good. Being able to drop 8/8s at 0 mana is not acceptable for any amount of health. Im not calling for a significant nerf, but perhaps a small rework on the flavor text. Perhaps "This minion costs 1 less for each point of damage you have taken, but no less than (3)".
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
I like the "no less than x" idea. It's not a significant nerf, but enough that it's not totally unfair.
I've suggested this before, but giving a molten giant a minimum cost of 3 would be fair, and I suppose you may as well put that on mountain giant as well (since it will almost never cost less than that anyway). I think mountain giant is more-or-less fine. You will naturally take damage as the game goes on, so molten giant doesn't carry any risk. However, you have to sacrifice your tempo to get a faster mountain giant.
Sea giant is just kinda bad in contructed.
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Precisely what I was getting at :D It would be ideal for it to be more in line with the philosophy behind Summoning Portal's limitation.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
Agreed. The major idea is just getting rid of the possibility of doing 2x Molten giants -> Defender of Argus starting on turn 3 or 4 depending on if you have coin or innervate.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
I started playing paladin because this combo just irritated me to much, pyro+equality is just about the only thing that can wipe them.
Yea. Pretty much one of the major reasons why the meta even shifted towards Black Knights were the Molten+Argus/Sunfury combos. Tirion, Ironbark, ancient of war were never big enough threats themselves to cause a meta shift by themselves, the giants pushed it over the top.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
The popularity-Strength correlation argument. Popular decks are unjustly nerfed not for their power, but for their popularity. Likewise, unpopularity of a card does not imply weakness.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
Assassinate, Shadow Word Death, Big Game Hunter, Hunters Mark/anything with charge or something like Arcane Shot(even a 1/1 boar is fine), deal one damage to it SOMEHOW whether its a minion's ability or a cheap minion you have on the field and execute, do I need to go on?
Make Big Game Hunter a rare
Physika #1165
lmao, you are saying the situation where the enemy has taken 20 damage by turn 3 or 4 and their hand consists of 2 molten giants, innervate, and defender of argus happens often enough that you think it needs to be nerfed.
We got a term for this in the scientific community: BULLSHIT
To people crying for the Giants to be nerfed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w
Watch from 4:17 until the end of the video.
First of all, I really don't see the point in the flaming. Second of all, the point isn't that players are likely to play them on turn 3-4, the point is that it is available starting at that point. And this isn't even the reason why 3 mana minimum change would be nice.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
The thread is just a litmus test for a small change to molten that was popularly suggested. I'm not trying to push any nerfs, nor was I ever in complaint with the giants. Besides, Blizzard seems to nerf based on popularity.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
I really can only assume that it's people who runs giants who are against nerfing it. I have on multiple times has a lock hellfire the board, play dual giants and sunfury/argus them. I don't see how anyone could see a class being able to clear or almost clear your entire board, put dual 8/8s on the board and add taunt in one turn as balanced. Also the odds of pulling dual clears by turn 6/7 isn't extremely high.
people acting like, "Super easy to deal with" are silly. One on the board, maybe so but they are almost always dropped in pairs with taunt. When you have a class that can artificially lower their health while drawing the cards needed it makes Molten Giant Broken. Mountain due to card size limits already has a cap on how cheap it can be played. I see no reason why Molten shouldn't be the same. even a 2 mana minimum at least gives the other player a chance to draw the needed clears which balances things out far more. I also don't think the argument that "if Blizzard hasn't fixed it yer it must be balanced." Is right either.
OP here. Yea, I like that you brought up the synergy with warlock's hero power. All solid points. I actually play giants myself, but I don't mind speaking up about this.
Thanks FOO(The Banner God)!
We had this discussion before [1] and I'll stick with my vote for all of the above: minimum cost, slight reduction in base stats, addition of secondary traits to reinforce their purported intentions as counters and make Big Game a 3/3.
[1] http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/3653-molten-giant-is-the-current-victim?page=8#c149
I don't think I have any giants unless you get them in the basic set, but whenever I am playing against somebody and they play a giant against me, I have the tools(cards) to dispose of them relatively quickly, and once I've killed 2-3 of their giants in a row, they surrender. You're just assuming stuff by saying that the ones who are against the nerf, plays them. You have to build your deck around them.